Becoming StormProof - Carol McLeod’s Journey AlongTheWay 15

So often in life as believers, we are caught in storms that we don't deserve, and that we wouldn't have chosen. Sometimes we're in the storm, because we obeyed God. And so from Paul's storm, Paul was a prisoner on the ship. He was not a leader. He was not the centurion, he was not the captain. But he became the cheerleader, he became the voice of hope. Whatever comes out of your mouth, let it be helpful. Don't be so consumed with the storm, that you forget that there are others in the storm with you, and you can be the voice of hope to them.

Welcome to along the way. I'm John Matarazzo. Your host and fellow traveler, thank you for joining me along my way is I try to become more like Jesus every day. I love when I have the opportunity to talk with fascinating people and learn how God has met them along their way. I believe that everyone has a story, and that we can all learn from each other's journeys. Through my work as a TV producer, I get to interact with some of the most amazing people making an incredible impact for God's kingdom. In this episode of along the way, my journey connects me with author and speaker Carol McLeod. If you want to know how you can become storm proof, and navigate through life's toughest storms, then you want to hear what Carol has to say. I always enjoy getting feedback about how my along the way journey is helping you. If you would like to connect with me, you can find along the way on Facebook and Instagram. You can always email me at John along the way at gmail. com. My social links and web address are in the show notes. I'd love to hear your feedback. And now, here's my along the way conversation with Carol McLeod. Carol, thank you so much for being on along the way. I've had the pleasure of having you on the real life program that I produce many, many times now. And it's great to have you on here because you're also a fellow podcaster. I am. I've joined your world

join me. Well, I have to say I think I'm one of the midwives that helped birth this. Because I remember what was a dream in your heart. Yeah. And you and I had a serious conversation. Yeah, that podcast, NASA John, go for it. Absolutely. Go for it.

Yeah. And I remember that conversation. Literally, God just spoke to me, maybe a few days or maybe a week before and I just felt this burning in my heart to hate just talk to Carol about this talk to care about this. And it was still like one of those things where it's in this infancy, and you don't necessarily want to like tell everybody about it. Because you're afraid that some people might say don't that's stupid, whatever. But I knew that God was stirring in my heart to just say it. And I did. And the words that you spoke to me were very formative. This is kind of encouraged me to keep going forward. Well, you

know, as you know, John, several years ago, I battled cancer, very aggressive cancer. And there was a scripture God gave to me during that time that impacted me greatly. And it's from Acts 13, Chapter 13. This relates to you being a podcaster. Did your the Bible can relate to us podcasting? It does. x 1330 says and David, okay, so stop right there. First of all, the Holy Spirit is still talking about David 1000 years after he lived. I want that kind of impact. So and David, when he served the purposes of God, in His own generation, then he went to sleep. And you see, john, we all have purposes that are peculiar to our generation. And if I'd been born before the reformation, I would have been described writing out the word of God on parchment. But that's not what I was born. I was born today to serve God and the first part of the 21st century. So I will take everything blogging, podcasting, TV, yeah, radio, the publishing world, social media, right, and use it for the kingdom of God. And that's what you're doing.

Yeah, yeah, I'm doing the best with with, with what God's given me. So, Carol, I'm glad you're on this program, because we've got to know each other a little bit. And I would like to hear about your life and the journey that God has brought you on because you've written many books. Your story is kind of salt, like salt and pepper it all through that right? seasoned all through that. But could you just tell, Could you just tell me about your your journey?

Yeah. Well, John, I was raised in a Christian home, I had the delic, all American Christian upbringing. My parents loved me with no strings attached, was raised in the church, went to a Christian university met a young man who was called to the ministry, we fell in love and got married. But john, I knew since the time I was a little girl, maybe seven or eight years old, that there was a call of God on my life. But I didn't know what that meant. Because all the women I knew what they were doing was teaching Sunday school and planning the annual turkey dinner shot. I didn't know that women could do more things than that.

And the wasn't a lot of women in public ministry. No,

no, there was not. And then when I was in college, all of a sudden names like Marilyn Hickey, and kathryn kuhlman, my dad would always take me to kathryn kuhlman meetings, and I realized that God could use women in every generation. Absolutely. And so that little fire in me, and really, john, I'll be honest with you, ever since I was a little girl, I loved the Bible, I would get up with my dad at 530 in the morning and read the Bible with him. And that's what I wanted to do, was to tell people about the truth, and the extravagant living and the joy and the peace and the hope that there was in this miraculous buck. And so when I was in college, the Lord began to open doors for me to communicate that message, because that's who I am at my core as I'm a communicator. So then Craig, and I got married. And we had these two great little boys that turned my world upside down. And so I put all those dreams on the shelf, and I was a mom, I was all into motherhood. And we wanted to enlarge our family, we're homeschooling them. And I got pregnant and lost the first baby at about 12 weeks, got pregnant again, lost the second baby at 15 weeks, lost the third baby at 16 weeks, lost the fourth baby at 20 weeks, and lost the fifth babies 16 weeks, so four of them I had in my hand. And John during that time, I was so depressed, the black hole was calling my name. I was just ravaged by depression. Now I'm very careful to tell people if you are depressed, go see your medical doctor and do whatever he or she tells you to do. Find a Christian counselor who will help you peel back the layers of your pain. But what happened to me during that nearly decade of being depressed was I also developed an addiction. And the addiction that I developed wasn't to alcohol. It wasn't too over the counter meds. It was the Bible. That's good addiction. It's a great addiction. And the Bible delivered me from that black hole before my circumstances ever changed. And one of my sayings in life, John is don't waste your pain. So I'm determined not to waste those 10 years of my life, but to use it as a springboard for ministry. You know, in Second Corinthians it says that we serve the God of all comfort, who is able to comfort us in all of our affliction, so that we are able to comfort others who are afflicted. So now my life is wrapped up in encouraging depressed, hurting lonely people with the joy is found in his presence. Yeah, yeah.

So let me understand that. Yes, you had two sons, two sons, then you had these miscarriage?

Yep. Then lost five. Yeah. And then after that, after losing five, you know, I was going to the infertility clinic at Duke in North Carolina, and one of the finest facilities in the world. And Dr. Granger was my doctor, and he was a believer. And interestingly enough, so he lectured around the world about infertility, but he and his wife are unable to have children of their own. So their family was this little rainbow of faces. I just loved it. But he really believed that he could help me carry baby. But the problem was I couldn't get pregnant anymore. And so I was on high doses of fertility drugs, and I wasn't getting pregnant. And it was the week between Christmas and New Year's in 1987. And I was watching Christian TV. And I love this because you and I both love Christian TV, because we know it changes people's lives. Absolutely. Yeah. And so I was battling depression watching Christian TV. And there was a pastor in his wife on closing their show. And she said, there's a pastor's wife out there. And I thought, yeah, there are a lot of us. And she said, You've suffered repeated miscarriages. And I looked at the screen started to cry, right right now. And she said, you are pregnant now. And this one's gonna stick. So walk in faith, not in fear. And John, eight and a half months later, I had a baby. Oh, wow. So the power of the spoken word. And then because I'm selfish, I wanted another baby. And I was on high doses of fertility drugs again. And after seven months, Dr. Granger said to me, Carol, this is enough. What we have done to your body over the last 10 years, we're done. He said, You need to go home and raise your boys. For the Lord. I thought you are right. With a next month I got pregnant, and I call them and he said, Oh, well, it's the residual effect of the fertility drugs. And I said, No, it's not it's a miracle. And he said, I knew you're going to say that course. So we named her joy because that's what you name a little girl after three boys. Just so you know, you named her joy. And then three and a half years later, I got the flu that wouldn't go away. And her name is Johnny, Rebecca. So are we have five children and in heaven and five children on earth? Wow. Yeah. Wow.

Now, I gotta ask when you were going through all those miscarriages. Now I'm sure you had people in your life that were encouraging you. But I'm sure you had some people saying, okay, Carol, just it's time. Obviously God doesn't want you to have others. How did you deal with that discouragement during that time?

Oh, yes. So after the fourth one, which was the 20 week, while just heartbreaking, he was delivered, the little boy was delivered at Duke University and the room was filled with doctors, the neonatal specialists and and you know, John, when I talk about it, this is what I say. There was like, a safe cred silence in the room. Because he really was a little boy, it really was a life. And nobody was talking groan doctors were crying. And Craig started to sing. I love you, Lord, and I lift my voice to worship You, oh, my soul rejoice. Because we were determined to worship our way through it. But I tell you that to say that was the hardest one. And I had to go to church the next Sunday, because my husband was the pastor. And you know, you're still bleeding and your emotions are in an uproar. And you're wondering, does God love me? Like what? And one of the elders wives walked up to me? She said, Well, now you know, it's not God's well, and I said, what's not God's will? She said, Well, it's not God's will for you to have any more babies. And John, because I'm a gracious person, I didn't punch her in the face. Yeah.

That took a lot of restraint.

Yeah. And but I later Therefore, I said to Craig, I don't know that in neither to shake, but you know what it did, John, it rose a fighting spirit on me. I got like, righteous anger in me. And I was determined to fight even harder for a family. So if people try to discourage you, for people are listening, Listen, don't let it discourage you. Let it fan the flame of passion in you and know what God has called you to do. That's,

that's good advice. That's very good advice. So you also mentioned earlier that you've battled cancer. So you've dealt with miscarriages, depression, and cancer. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, so it was in it was November 3 of 2014. And I got the phone call. Nobody wants to get Carol it's cancer. And so I spent the next week in testing facilities having my body poked and prodded and x rayed and and I was supposed to go meet with the surgeon and the oncologist, the following Monday, November the 10th. Well, the storm of the century hit Buffalo, New York that Dan, if you remember that or not? We actually got to blizzards back to back. Yeah, I got eight feet of snow in my backyard and five days. And so the doctor called me said, Carol, you can't come. And so we've scheduled you to come the week after Thanksgiving. What? I have to wait, like almost three weeks to find I wanted cancer out of my body like yesterday. And so there's a storm going on outside my house can't see out my window. There's a vicious storm going on inside of me. And I heard the Holy Spirit say to me, Carol, I want you to study every storm in the Bible. Yeah. So that's my most recent book that just came out storm proof weathering the tough times in life. So that's what I did. JOHN, I studied every storm in the Bible, and extracted practical life lessons from each one. So really what the enemy meant for evil God used for good. And it's touching thousands of people around North America. Yeah.

What are some of the storms that most impacted you? from it? That's the worst? Oh,

yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, one of the storms that really impacted me, and that was the storm at the end of the book of Acts that Paul was in, because he didn't deserve it. He did nothing to cause it. He was actually obeying God, when he was put on trial, and then sent to Rome. And they were, you know, caught in the Mediterranean in a vicious storm. And you know, john, so often in life as believers, we are caught in storms that we don't deserve, and that we wouldn't have chosen. Sometimes we're in the storm, because we obeyed God.

I know that's, that's true. Yeah. We don't like to admit that. No, we

don't, we don't. And so from Paul storm, you know, Paul was a prisoner on the ship. He was not a leader. He was not the centurion. He was not the captain. But he became the cheerleader, he became the voice of hope. And so I that's one of the lessons I learned from that storm is become the voice of hope. Whatever comes out of your mouth, let it be helpful. Don't be so consumed with the storm, that you forget that there are others in the storm with you. And you can be the voice of hope to them. So that's that's one of my favorite storms. That's,

that's very cool. Yeah. Earlier you talked about waking up at 530. And reading the Bible with your dad. Yeah. That's very precious. Do you remember the first thing that God spoke to you that you realized it was his voice?

That that's a really good question. And john, I would have to answer it by saying, I knew that I was called to serve the kingdom. The immovable, unshakable kingdom. You know, John, I was raised at a time when women were being appointed to the Supreme Court. And we're being network news anchors, and we're becoming astronauts, and running for Congress. And none of that ever called my name. I always knew that I knew that I knew that there was a call a unique and powerful call on my life, to teach Kingdom Principles at my moment in history. You know, so our family went to the Methodist Church in the morning, and the Assembly of God church at night. Okay. Yeah, very cool. Because my mom and dad were involved in ministry in the community, but they wanted us to have more, they wanted us to have the power of the Holy Spirit. And I received what we would call for the listeners who don't know what this is the baptism, the Holy Spirit, which is, the Bible talks about a second work a powerful work when I was eight years old, at the altar, and I remember the pastor's wife said to me, Carol, this experience is going to be what keeps you a Christian during high school. And I remember those words vividly as an eight year old. And so I have counted on the Holy Spirit countless times in my life, to keep me pure to keep me honest, to keep me away from rebellion, to keep me on a straight path, because the Holy Spirit really is there for us. So your question was, what was the first thing I ever heard God say to me, and it was definitely that he was going to use me in his kingdom.
And the Holy Spirit was going to give me power.

That's a great thing to hear.

I know when you're a little girl, right?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's I remember when I got baptized and got filled with the Holy Spirit, it was I was that my pastors pull us they would do bad things Christmas periodically. And remember, that was the first time that I, you know, I knew that I got filled with the Holy Spirit and the evidence of speaking in tongues. And I was like, This is awesome. Like, I wish I remembered more about that. But I know that my life was changed. And that's one of those early memories that I will always remember. Yeah. Very cool. So you had that call? You knew that? That was like, if you're going to stand on that? Yeah.

What

are some of the first practical steps that you took to walk in that?

You know, so yeah, young moms asked me today, Carol, what did you do to prepare for what you're doing now? Right? podcast, radio, TV publishing industry. And you know, I tell them, I read my Bible. When when I was burping babies, I was reading my Bible. When I was doing mountains of dishes, the Bible was open on the counter. When I was playing Legos with my little boys, the Bible was opened between my legs. What did I do to prepare, I read the Bible, because the Bible has a power in it. That cannot be overstated. And the Bible prepared me to live the life that I'm living today, because honestly, John, I got nothing. I got nothing new or interesting or dynamic to say, but the Bible does. And so that's how I prepared another thing, as you know, because we talked about this all the time is, I'm a voracious reader. I read every book that comes out. I, you know, I stay up way too late to read negative way too early to read. But I love the power of words. And I love the thoughts that great men and women of God think there's a scripture in Proverbs that talks about when you walk with the great, you become great. Well, I can't walk with Spurgeon. You know, I can't walk with Queen Esther. I can't walk with smith wigglesworth. But I can, because I can read their books. And then I'm walking with them.

That's really a great way to look at that. Because sometimes I look at books, and I think, okay, I just want to learn everything that I can from this, but just imagine yourself, sitting with them as they're writing, and I know it, walking with them through these different things. That's going to give me a different perspective,

I think. And honestly, John, as an author, when I write, I'm, I'm picturing specific women across the table from me. And so if I'm writing about loneliness, I'm thinking about my friends who are dealing with loneliness. If I'm writing about purpose, or destiny, I'm thinking about the young women in my life, and I'm picturing them and how I would talk to them. Because books really are a conversation from a wiser voice to a world that needs that. Yeah,

sure. So in regards of writing books, yes. How many of you right now,

my 11th book is coming out in November.

Okay, so we're gonna have to have you on real life. Yes, right. Yes. Yes. That one gonna be about?

Well, you know, this one is called significant. And and John, I love this book. And it actually it might be the book that I was born to write, because it talks about this book significant focuses on what the Bible says, about women.

That's good. Yeah. That's that, that needs to be published.

Yeah. We're not what denomination say yes. Not what entertainment says. But what does the Bible say about women? And also, we we were very careful, we looked at secular studies about the issues that women face today, non believers, like what would be so we looked at what the AMA said, and Huffington Post and, and a Harvard review. And so we pinpointed some of the primary issues that women face. And the book really focuses on those things. So it's that the four major areas are self I don't even like called self worth, or self esteem is identity. There you go, identity, purpose, or destiny, loneliness, because some of the loneliest people are moms with five kids. And stress. those are those are the the four areas the book covers, but again, it's it's rich in the Word of God and in biblical principles. And in every chapter, I quote, great women, Christians and non Christians, and what they had to say about these things, because really, John, it's rich in Bible, but we want it to be in every woman's buck. We're on it to draw women in. Right? Yeah,

yeah. It was there anything in your research from looking at those other sources that surprised you?

Well, it surprised me how really, truly good women are that I might disagree with politically, that I might have chosen a different career path. And they did, that I might have spent my money differently, that I might have treated my husband differently than they treated their many husbands. But when you read about their hearts, and about their hopes and dreams and desires, there was an innate goodness in each one of them. What you know, I think there are two ways to learn things, Johnny, you learn how to do things, and you can learn how not to do things. Yeah. And both are powerful teachers. And so hidden between the covers of that book will be both types of lessons.

I can't wait. It's gonna be very good.

Good. And you get to read it, even though you're a guy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. How can I be better husband someday?

That's what I'm looking for. Yeah, definitely. So you've dealt with a lot of detours in your life. And I like to kind of use this analogy. We're traveling along the road, and there's, you know, opportunities for your GPS to say recalculating, or, you know, there's a detour, there's road construction. How can we deal like, the detours that you've dealt with in life are the roadblocks. What advice would you give to avoid those detours?

Keep your eyes on Jesus, you know, not on the road, certainly. Keep your eyes on the road map, which is the Bible. You know, I was speaking in Long Island one time, and and my daughter and I wanted to go to New York City to explore. And the pastors I said, No, you can't go there by yourself. And we said, yeah, we can. We're brave, we can do it. She said, No, you can't. Yeah, we really can. And she said, Okay, I'll only let you go on one condition. I'm going to buy you the special map. And so there was this great map with all the streets and with all the different subway lines FNG and, and it told you exactly how and and we we held this thing in our hands all day long and just looked at it and said, okay, the F goes to the G ok now, and we we knew we couldn't get anywhere without this special man was the same with the Bible. You know, unless you order your life by the word of God, you will be detoured. You will go down rocky roads, you you will lose your sense of direction. You'll stub your toe, you'll fall and get hurt. You'll get off track. But if you are and this is John, this is one thing I say because people say to me all the time. Well, Carol, I don't understand the Bible. That's okay. Read it anyway. Because we don't primarily read the Bible for information. We read it for transformation. So even what your mind is not getting your spirit is so read it anyway. So the question was, what do you do when you're in a deter? tour? What you don't do anything differently? You read your Bible, you keep serving people, you keep giving and being kind and loving and praying and worshiping. And you're going to get back on track. You will. That's so good.

I love what you were just talking about how even if you don't don't understand it, the natural your spirit is still getting it right. That is so true. I forget about that. Right. But I'm trying to like, just take it all in and try to understand it my natural mind. But I forget that my spiritual mind, my spirit man needs that as well whether my natural mind is getting or not right. So practice.

You know, my college roommate, Debbie, we're still very close. And her husband was tragically killed at 50 years old. On a men's retreat with his church. He was a pastor. And she has read her Bible every day of her life since she was 12 years old. And when we would talk over the years, I'd say WG read your Bible today. And she tell me what she read. Well, the day after Steve was killed, she got up to read her Bible. And she looked where she was supposed to read John. And it was those eight chapters in Second Chronicles. That's just name after name after you can't pronounce and she's and Debbie said to me, and I got mad the Holy Spirit because I thought really, this is where I'm reading the day after Steve died, John, the Holy Spirit whispered in her in her ear. That's right. I knew Steve was going to die. And I knew you're going to read these books of the Bible, because I wanted you to remember that people are important to God. And Steve is not forgotten. And so she read every name in Ali chapters. So we've got to remember that there's an inner working, you know, if I were to give you a bottle of vitamin C, and I said, Here, take these, you think there goes Carol again, tell me what to do, trying to get me to be healthy. But john, we both know, the truth is if you took him every day, you wouldn't get very many colds this year. That's true. But you don't see the work. You don't feel it. But you know, it would make a difference. Yeah, it's the same thing with the Word of God. It's going to make a difference. So read it. If you read your Bible, all of a sudden, you're going to realize I was nicer to my house spend this week. I didn't get upset with my boss. I felt like tithing this week. Because an inner work happens. We got the Bible.

That's so practical. I love that approach to it. Yeah, that's, I mean, I've heard read your Bible. Yeah, my entire life. But I love that even the even the, the, the one you don't understand it, those names, there's still a purpose in that in your spirit can can be fed. Exactly. So good. What has happened in your life that showed you that Jesus was walking with you, but you might have not realized it at that time until you look back?

Oh, you know what we all see 2020 and the rearview mirror, you know, we walk through hills and valleys and deserts and we wonder where God is and we cry out to Him and human pain. And we wonder if we're forgotten. But if we can keep John, if we can keep doing the right thing? What is the right thing? The right thing is reading the Word. Staying in prayer, keep serving others and keep worshiping. If we can stay close to those things, John. We're not going to need to look back and see him. We're going to see him every day. I was I was reading in Isaiah a couple weeks ago. And it's talking about a wilderness experience in life. And the prophet Isaiah said, there is grace in the wilderness. And what what is grace in the wilderness? What is it? Well, it's Jesus, he's with us in the wilderness. So you might not feel him. But he's there. So when people say, well, Carol, I don't feel Jesus, this is what I say to them. Okay. Well, the Bible tells us ways to access his presence. And, and the Psalms said that he inhabits the praises of his people. So if you don't feel him start to worship him. Yeah. And he'll show up. He'll show up. Absolutely.

If you could talk to yourself in the past. Yeah. Where would you visit yourself on that timeline? And what's going on in that in your in younger Carroll's life? And what would you tell yourself?

Well, I would definitely want to go back to when I was 12 years old, just before the teenage years, and talk to myself about setting good goals, eternal goals, net temporary goals. I would talk to myself about having a good work ethic. I would tell myself not to over remote, not to overreact. I would tell myself, to listen to my parents. I would tell myself to stretch myself more than I did. And I would tell myself, that it pays to serve Jesus.
It pays.

That's good. That's good. Do you think your 12 year old self would listen?

I think so. Yeah. I think I was the kind of girl who would have listened.

Yeah, I just find that as an interesting question.

I know. I know. It is interesting.

So Karen, what's the life verse that that has always stuck with you and just changed your life?

Well, my verses Psalm 1611. In his presence, there is fullness of joy. And in his right hand, there are pleasures forevermore. So as a woman of the 21st century in the Western world, I remind myself daily, that joy is not in Hawaii, it's not in a box of Godiva chocolates. Joy is not found in five well behaved kids are in a good looking man of God. Joy is found wherever Jesus is. And that's my life verse.

So good. A joy is a major theme in your life.

It is it is. And I think it's because I thought for it for so long and so hard, that it's a very precious commodity to me. Yeah, that's very true.

Yeah. And how do you joy is your an earlier version of your ministry was called just join me?

Uh huh.

What is the best advice that you can give about imparting joy into other people's lives?

Well, the thing about joy, you know, it's, it's like if you and I had a million dollars right now, we would invest it probably in Lacroix. We've invested in some of the really hot things that are happening in the world today. And the thing about Joy's it's a good investment. You know, it says in the Psalms, restore to me, the joy of your salvation, then I will teach transgressors your ways and sinners will be converted to you. So when you respond in joy to the world around you, listen, John, there is a world out there going to hell who's waiting for somebody to be joyful, who's waiting for somebody to show them some joy. And it's a promise in the Bible, when, when the joy of my salvation is restored to me, then I will teach centers as ways it's going to happen, it's going to happen. So joy is a great investment in people's lives, and it's going to come back, it will come back to you. Very good.

What book do you think would would make an impact in my life? What book would you recommend?

Okay, well, as you know, I love to read. And I just read a book that rocked my world, okay. And the name of the book is she's by one of my heroines of the faith, and the name of the book is suffering is never for nothing. And it's by Elizabeth Elliot, and John, it's really a theology of suffering. It was written posts you miss lake is of course, she's been with the Lord, I don't know, four or five years now. But it's a compilation of his of her sermons.

So sounds really good.

Because I don't think that we who live in in the West world, I don't think we have a good handle on a theology of suffering. We don't we want our best life now. We want Hawaii we want Harvard. We want a great car and a great house and you might have those things. But I I loved that book. So that would be a good book for you to read. Another great book for you to read. Anything by Tozer. Anything at all by Tozer would be incredible for you to read.

One last thing. Just praying Yes, yes, my listener,

Lord Jesus, we love you so much. Father, I'm honored father to partner with John and ministry. And Father, I pray you'd use this podcast to go into many people's hearts. Father, for those who are lonely, I pray you'd comfort them. For those who are discouraged, I pray you to encourage them. And, Lord, Lord, for those who are discouraged, you're depressed? Would you restore the joy of their salvation, in Jesus name, amen.

I'm grateful for the time that I got to spend with Carol to do this interview. And yes, she's been on real life many times. And we've had great conversations over the years. She was truly one of the first people that I talked to about my idea for along the way that I felt God gave me I appreciate her openness, about talking about the storms in her life, and how God has brought her through them. And the things that he has taught her through those storms, as well. As I'm reviewing this interview, I'm reminded of the roots of a tree and how they go down deep. The palm tree has roots that don't go down very deep. And so whenever a storm comes, it knocks over the tree, and it can't survive. But an oak tree or a big tree like that, whenever a storm comes, its roots go down deeper, and it becomes even stronger because of the storm. I want to be more like an oak tree than a palm tree. The biggest way that our roots can go down deep in the Word of God studying that, as Carol said, becoming addicted to the Word of God. And I love what she said that even if your mind doesn't understand your spirit still benefits from it. Your Spirit needs the Word of God, whether you get it or not. Just develop that discipline in our life. I'm working on that myself, and I hope you do too. I appreciate Carol's advice about reading the Word staying in prayer, serving others and keeping worshiping that will help us get through the storms in life. And the advice that she would give her younger self is very practical as well. Set eternal goals. Have good work ethic, don't over remote, and do not overreact. Listen to your parents. stretch yourself and it pays to serve Jesus. Yes, it does. And even though it's hard sometimes to see the joy, joy is found where Jesus is. Seek after him day after day, and you'll make it through. I guarantee it. Care mentioned the book suffering is never for nothing by Elizabeth Elliott. I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well as a link to Carol's website and information about her book storm proof. Thank you for listening to along the way. If you've enjoyed joining me along my way, please share this with a friend who you think will be encouraged by this podcast. Also, please rate and subscribe to this podcast. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram and at my website along the way dot media. You can always email me at John along the way at gmail. com. I hope that you've enjoyed this part of my journey and may you realize when Jesus is walking with you along your way.