“Do Your Children Believe?” - Terence Chatmon AlongTheWay 103

Well, I am here with Terence Chatman, who's my friend from goodness, you are on the real life program. And then I think we had you on hope today, I forget, but you, you've done stuff with me at the TV station at Cornerstone a number of times. And your message has been something that has resonated in my heart, even though I don't have a family of my own. That's something that I definitely want to be prepared for. He talked about the book that he wrote, do your children believe, and this message is really powerful. And so I want everybody to make sure that you are paying attention to the things that he has to say is he's going to be sharing his story of how God has met him along the way, that Terence, thank you so much for joining me on this podcast.

Oh, John, I tell you, I've been looking forward to today for a long time.

Yeah, we've, we go back a number of years. And we've always had amazing conversations, especially off air, you know, in those times in the green room, where we just get a chance to talk about how God is moving, and you have a heart for the family, really, that is you have an opportunity to really speak into people's lives when it comes to families, because you have an experience with your own family and how God has put that as a priority in your life and how you have fostered that relationship. And I just love that story. And I want to hear how God has led you to where you are today. So if you don't mind, I'd like to just kind of take us back to your beginning of how did God lead you to where you are today?

Absolutely. You know, John, when I look back on it is something that I would say that God certainly has been in the forefront. It was not a focus area mine to start the next family. You know, discipleship ministry, it's something in nature, I was a business guy, you know, I, I started my first business when I was six years old, you know, motivated by the love of candy. So yeah, I was thinking about family transformation, and so forth.

Right? Tell us about that business. Because God put that in your heart from a young age. And I love this story. So,

you know, I, well, you know, my mom and I, you know, we lead I'm from Chicago, within the church quite regularly. And so mom and I walking home from church one Sunday, and, and, you know, I saw some candy, like most six year old kids, when I say let me purchase some candy. And she says, Sure, absolutely. But you have to pay for it. And I'm like, six years old, I have no money. I just put my last quarter in a Tide box, you know? And he says, Well, you know, if he had some money would be more than happy to pay for it. That was a nice way of saying no. It's like I've watched as people in Chicago, we call them pop bottles, people were returned pop bottles. And I said, Man, we throw away a lot of these pop bottles, what's going on, I could start to collect those and turn them in. It's nice. In my mind, when we start a recycling program. I didn't call the recycling at that time, I just return them to the store. And she's to show that you take them back to the store, you know, I only have kind of one stipulation. 10% has to go to tide. I'm like, What the heck is 10%? First of all, and what's the top? So my mom and dad kind of took out some change and 10 dimes and said, Hey, here's $1, right? And here's 10%, which is a diamond. So this goes over to the church and say, Hi, I got 90 cents. I'm in pretty good shape. So dad had one stipulation, because he believed in saving so he says, hey, you know, start a savings accounts. So 10% has to go towards savings. I know. That's another time. So yeah, 20 I still had 80% I had 80 cents still sitting there. Right?

So I started so they didn't teach you about Uncle Sam at that point, though.

Well, he didn't talk about the taxes. It could have gave me that lesson upfront, but he did. So I start collecting these bottles and going to a store of my local store down the street and saying listen, you know, I'm going to be returning some bottles and and I want you to be able to redeem these and so we started to collect them and but one thing I realized we we drank a lot of pop. So I figured this I seal if we have a lot of pop bottles, my neighbors, they have a lot of pop bottles. And so I would go by I think Chicago everybody was close. And I said hey, would you mind putting these bottles out on Saturday, I'll come back pick them up and I had some transportation from the local grocery store, you know, push carts, grocery carts, so I just start piling them up. Returning bottles. I started my recycling business and most people say you collect a couple of dollars now and I was cranking in about 500 to 1000 bucks a month

as a as a

600 Right.

Oh my god, I

got to check the date just to make sure I'm Just rolling in Candy Man, like the candy guy in the neighborhood. And in my savings, you know, back then was piling up. And so make a long story short, my route started to grow so large and my pocketbook so large that my friends became envious. And so they wanted a piece of the action. And so I said, Absolutely, I'll bring you in for a piece of the action. I split up my territory. And then I charged them 10% In franchisee fees, you know, so I had a franchisee recycling business at the age of six, seven years old.

Oh my gosh, yeah, that's, that's incredible. I love that story. It cracks me up every time just imagining little six year old parents going down the streets of Chicago picking up these pop bottles and turning into a recycling mogul. You know, I think that's just amazing how God has put that in you. But even in that story, your family was were teaching you your mom and dad, were teaching you family values about the things of God and how tithing was important. And I know that those lessons carried with you as you were growing up. But let's continue this, this talk about business and some of the things that God has opened up with you. Because I mean, obviously, that is that has been in you from the very beginning. You know, and God says that He formed you in your mother's womb, and he knit you together, he gave you a purpose. And obviously that purpose was shining through early.

You know, I always say there's never, it's never too early to start discipling your children. And for us, you know, it just started with lessons like that, right? Attending church, where spinners as a family, less meal, I call them moments, right teachable moments. Yeah, for our children. And so it's never too early to start nest, one encouragement. And I also want to encourage those parents, whether you're a first generation or, or multiple generation, in terms of a strong family legacy in terms of spirituality, it starts with you, it starts with you to raise your kids in the Lord. And for those that even don't have kids. And you know, we have kids within our community and within our influence. And so let me just encourage, but one of the things that sparked me on in terms of my corporate responsibilities, you know, I grew up in the 60s 70s. And that was a time of civil unrest, obviously, right. And dad challenged us with this principle that everyone has intrinsic value, doesn't matter who you are, doesn't matter, your race, your ethnic group, or whatever. He's just hey, regardless of position, people have value. Think about the president, think about the janitor, they all have intrinsic value. And if you don't believe that, just let the janitor not change the toilet tissue for a couple of days. And we'll see how valuable that service is right? Or if the CEO isn't leading or not leading with integrity, things of that nature. So the reason I bring that up, is as he sat me down one day, coming home from his his shift that he worked for 44 years, same company, and he says, Terrance, I just want you to know, I'm eight years old at this point. And I still remember sitting on your couch, and you still had the plastic on it, you know, back then. Yeah, the keep it protected. And he says, You know, I was watching him looking at me has said all over his body in his face, he was a crane operator for many years. And he says things don't have to be the same in your lifetime, as they are today. And you will have an impact to make a difference in your generation. And he said it starts with people they haven't Trinsic value. And when you reached a level that I know that you destined for which is interesting that he had that Revelation, He says I want you to make a difference with what the Lord has given you. And he says the one thing to remember, it's never about the Shingo outside, it's about the person inside. And he said in order to have healthy debate to change the culture of corporate America, which was my charge that he gave me change the culture. He said that you have to be on the inside, having healthy debate, not necessarily on the outside throwing bricks in he says you got to be around the table, to have influence and to have healthy debate, not shy away from the issues. But understand approaches that everyone has values and everyone's struggling. And so that was my charge as an 18 year old it was to go into corporate America because he believed very much that the marketplace had great influence, in addition to the church and so forth. And so that started my my really my, my thought of a career in corporate America was to go into the marketplace, not as an account not as a business. lever not as anything else, but as a leader to change the culture, corporate America that will eventually have impact on the nation through the marketplace. And so that was my charge. And that took me to companies like Johnson and Johnson City Bank, Coca Cola was the Lord opened up amazing opportunities for me, at very high senior levels, operating close my department, close to two thirds of the Coca Cola Company was brought me here to line and so yeah, just have those type of opportunities to invest in people and make a difference. And now I look back today, where I've invested in individuals now 14 of them are leading companies at very high levels, and they're changing culture, they're making a difference. And so that's, that's a legacy that I, I'm so thankful that the Lord opened those doors for me to try to make a difference the best way I could.

Amen, amen. And so, you know, we're gonna talk a little bit later about your, your impact on the mountain of family, you know, the, the sphere of the family, but God called you to the business and marketplace for a long season. I want to just ask you, what is your fingerprint that you left there? Like you said, you you've trained up those 14 other leaders now, where do you look and see your fingerprints still touching those?

Well, you know, it's interesting and a great question, because when you think of I'll use a John Maxwell model of leadership, he talks about five levels of leadership. The first level is positional. In fact, he says that's the Lord's level of leadership, his position on most of us strive all our life to get to a level of leadership. But that's actually the least influential position of leadership. The second position of leadership he talks about is you go from physician to relationship, and you start to develop relationships within that organization, or within that sphere of influence. And then the third level is of leadership, he talks about production, you're known for your production, and you earn credibility, because you produced, etc. And therefore, you're recognized as a producer, right? The fourth level is when you begin to multiply, and you begin to produce reproduce other leaders. So level four leader, but the level five leader is much different, as we call it, the pinnacle leader. And that's where you're not known for position, you know, relationship production, and so forth. What you're known for is not what you do, but who you are, and the impact that you made. So I would love to think that who I who I was in corporate America, in places like Citibank, Coca Cola, and j&j, I would hope that I made a difference in people's lives that I, I helped them to see their potential, I help them to realize their dreams, as leaders within the organization. And I help prepare them for the responsibility to invest in other people's lives to make a difference, not just their life, but when you make an investment in a person's life, you're impacting their family, you're impacting multiple generations to come. And so I think I pray, that's my legacy is that I made, I cared enough for people because people don't want to know how much you know, until they know how much you care. And I prayed it, I've invested in them, I shown them how much I care. And as they lead companies today, that they would take those principles that I tried to practice the best I could, and apply them to their leadership style and practice today.

Wow, that what you said there was just really impactful, you know, you gave the five different levels of leadership. And then you said, it's not what you do, but who you are at that pinnacle place. You know, and I think a lot about we get caught up in our identity, and trying to figure out where we belong in so many different places, and we're trying to in each of these different levels, people fight for those positions, they fight for that influence, you know that and but whenever you know who you are in Christ, you accept the identity that he's given you. He's the one that kind of brings you to that next level, and that that next level, but ultimately, it's when you know who you are, and you know who's you are, you're kind of already at that pinnacle place. But you just haven't been recognized. You just haven't been recognized externally yet. But internally, you can get there before you get there externally. Absolutely.

Yeah. I love this. This thing my father invested a lot in me and I, I listened, I mentioned he was my hero, him and mom and so I think about this saying that he used to always say he says Terence one day you're going to achieve your most wondrous dreams and desires. But if they if they are isolated, they are going To leave you unfulfilled and empty inside. So you might achieve something great all your goals. But if no one's coming with you, no one has been lifted as a result of what you do. It's going to leave you empty. It's going to leave you isolated in the end. And he was so right, you know, you can achieve your most wondrous dreams and desires. I mean, think about it to lead a company like your Coca Cola Company, Citibank and j&j. I'm a I'm 27 years old, I was, you know, late a quarter to country for j&j. You know, manage them through the town crisis and so many other things. And, you know, then at around 30, I was leaving Citibank, Florida, and in all of that, and then at 36 years old, I was leading the Coca Cola Company, two thirds of Coca Cola company,$50 billion. And I think about what he was saying, what if no one came with me, but I leave made a lot of money. You know, I was in a position of power and all this other stuff. And it was 14 individuals was just left on the side. Would that be fulfilling? For me? It wouldn't be. And so I think that's the legacy that I wanted to leave is, it's just like, our great commission is not about us. It's greater than that, is how Who are you going to? How are you going to expand the kingdom as a result of the many the grace that he's given, you know, and so I tell people, I used to focus on what I did, right? And that's great. But but the idea is to focus on what he's done, what the Lord has done. And once you understand His amazing grace, then James one, five comes into play, you're compelled to do not out of obligation and performance and responsibility, but you're compelled to do out of the love for the grace that he's been given to you. As he hung on that cross on your behalf.

Wow. So if you can, what are some of those 14 leaders that you've invested in? Just what are some of the things that they're doing? That you're proud of? Yeah, I

mean, some of them, I mean, one of them is hit leader Coke Cola. Now he first black leader to hit up the marketing division for Coke Cola, many people don't realize the Coca Cola is really a marketing company, not a beverage company.

Well, I just add on to that. I mean, I was a missionary for eight years with youth of the mission 15 different countries. And I've been to some villages where they've never heard the name of Jesus. But there has been Coca Cola there for a long time. So Coca Cola has done a better job of evangelizing the world than the body of Christ has done that. So I just want to say Coca Cola is absolutely a marketing, but I'll tell

you a funny story around that, you know, when, when Bill Gates was trying to figure out, you know, he had an initiative to, to read polio around the world. And, and he would go into some places in Africa and different places, and he would, you know, do vaccinations and so forth. And in months later, years later, it will return back to that area that he had just fascinated. But what he didn't realize is that people from the, from a deep woods, if you will, or the deep tribes were coming out into town, they were infecting the people and going back into their, their their area. And so he realized he had to reach those people. That was not on the map. You know, they were in places that didn't exist, but was interesting was Coca Cola. He was there. They fought Coca Cola, they took it in because they didn't have fresh water, different things. So they bought Coca Cola as a refreshment. And so Coca Cola had the distribution map that Bill Gates didn't have. Right. So once they start vaccinating those people, those those tribal people, then all of a sudden boom, he started to have a great impact on polio, in the areas of interest to your right Coco's everywhere, even when places with metal Yeah,

it definitely convicts me every time I see a Coca Cola bottle because I'm like, man, it's been places where we haven't taken the gospel yet and

learn how to take the gospel where cocoa was taken out right

there. Yeah. So what else has happened with those guys? Yeah. So

you know, guys like that, you know, guys who hit up one guy hits up a major role and largest oil companies, Exxon Mobil, so places like that, you know, we have leaders in nonprofits as well, that's now leading nonprofit organizations, as well. So, you know, my, you know, it's just been a blessing. And it's very humbling to even think that the Lord will use me in any way to invest in somebody else's life to make a difference in their life. But you know, one story I love to share with you is nothing around a big executive or some leader, but I want to tell you a story of a young man by the name I call him he just had initially thicker it was or for me at when I owned the Atlanta Bread Company on the franchise of Atlanta brick company for 10 years and Initium Man came to work with me. And quite honestly, I think he was probably selling some things on the street, he shouldn't be selling it, things like that. But he came to me and he says, Terrance, I'd love to start working for you. And so my wife is in the background, waving her hands, and no, don't hire him. So I end up hiring this young man. And investing in his life, you know, he had multiple girls and babies and all this stuff. And as we work together, I call him AC AC, began to change his life. For the first time, he's a real smart, young man. But for the first time he saw a husband and wife work together, my wife worked with me in a store, he saw someone of values and integrity, he saw someone who was affirming him, and that's what's so important is that people want affirmation. And so I wanted to affirm a see I wanted to invest in this life, I wanted to show him to somebody believed in him. And that, you know, he had value, right, and so AC came in just raw, but he ended up leading, and one of my largest stores, and being my opener, for 10 years. And, and now a see, you know, he changed his life around married, family, married a woman, you know, he sees his kids, often, he's a great dad, he's providing income for his family and a legitimate way. And to be able to represent Him and to invest in him and, and do all of that. I mean, sometimes even representing them in court, you know, goes for things that he never experienced, he always not people want to see him as an hourly worker, who is just a commodity, you know, we use them up, we work them. And, you know, this guy used to catch two, three buses just to get to work in an hourly job. And now he somebody invested in him. And he became a store manager of one of the largest franchises in the food business. And he did it for 10 years and turned his life around, wow, I think we can make a difference in people's lives.

Absolutely. And it's that investing into somebody that's come alongside of you, somebody that God has brought into your life, whether it be an external thing, where you know, he was just looking for a job, and you you hired him up and saw that there was potential there, you saw an identity in him that, you know, you saw, through God's Eyes of what who he was, and who he could be. But he just didn't realize that yet. You helped bring that out of him. And I want to kind of transition to talk about your family now, because you have been so successful in the marketplace and business. But I know, oftentimes, because of the high stress of jobs, your family life can kind of suffer sometimes. And I know that you have a story about how God helped to bring those priorities back in line. Can we kind of spend some time talking about that? Because I know that's, that's where your heart is now. And I know, you were part of John Maxwell's leadership group and stuff. And so yeah, just I want to hear about those stories of how God has kind of repositioned your priorities.

You know, this story takes me to a place and I'll set it up. But I'll give you the kind of the middle. It took me to a place when I was on my knees in my basement asking the Lord how he would use me in the family. And he's he's the wasn't an audible response. It was just something I've just never since since and I never you know, I don't tell the story that often. But I just remember the words I can't use you at all. I can't use the you that's still thinks it's about recognition, achievement, all those human things that are good. He says I need to you He changed my whole thinking to shiny to you, that has great dependency on me. And I valued Independence I grew up in and this is I need to you that understand sacrifice and surrender your will for my will. I need to you this humble for those who humble themselves and seek my face, not your achievements or whatever they are, but I want you to seek my face. I want you to seek the kingdom of God I want you to seek something greater. And I remember my reaction was to fall prostrate on the floor and just say Forgive me Lord, forgive me for my arrogance forgive me for my pride forgive me. Although I'm thinking I'm doing the right things I raised my kids you know who you are. I have failed as a spiritual leader in my home because what I demonstrated was not those four things and so that that moment I've never had this vision since I don't even know what the vision I'm even know what it is. John, I'm just telling you what I experienced. Yeah. So I'm not one of those out there saying I saw some visions and stuff. Don't do that. So this was the only vision that I've ever had, that I know of. So that vision was to show me a long line of stick people. People in the form of stick images, as far as the eye can see was like a winding road of people. And that was it. No explanation, no nothing else. And it just faded into the backdrop. And many years later, one one person, you know, what if that's revelation, were 100. You know, these people are coming out of the Tribulation, Washington, the blood of Christ Jesus. And what if that's the calling for the family? Could you make a difference? You know, family, I believe is the foundation is the very fabric of our nation. As the family go communities go nations go. Absolutely. So the idea as much as I Emad love marketplace, I'm still a marketplace leader, that's my heartbeat. But I realized I was fall, if I was falling short, as the spiritual leader in my home, I had abdicated that to the church and my wife. And I was so busy building this foundation in the marketplace to make a difference, and I loved it. But I realized that I need to make sure I'm discipling my kids at home. And so it's my wife when I went off to kind of think through this talk about this one on an anniversary trip. And she asked me a question that changed my life. She says, you know, are the keys prepared to defend their faith after high school that mean they knew the Lord. But are they really prepared to defend their faith? They were like, 10 1315 years old. And how many kids at this point? Yeah, three kids. They're about 10 to 15 years old. Yeah. And we had heard these stats, staggering stats, you know, 75% of kids are walking away from the church after high school, things like that. And we didn't want our kids to be a statistic. At least not that one.

Yeah, and so that's not a good statistic. Oh, question was,

are they prepared to defend their fate? I said, No, I don't think they are. And she said, No, I don't think they are. So her response are, what are you going to do about it? What am I going to do about it? What are you going to do about it? You're spiritually at home? What's the church gonna do about it? What's the school going to do about it? Right? We point fingers is so many places. And I realize all those things are good. But instead of being church centered, I need I needed this family discipleship to be home centered and church supported. I need to flip the script. And therefore I needed to be intentional. And in leading my kids through a discipleship process. And so that started the journey for us. And 20 Even today is my kids are older, they're married, they have cute children now, we're still doing family devotionals. Now as every other Sunday, eight o'clock PM, you're going to find us on a on a zoom call or whatever virtual call. And we're going to be doing family discipleship together. And we're, we've been at this now for 1920 years as a family. We've never lost a year.

Wow. So your your families spread out. Now you're in different time zones and stuff. So this is still an important thing where every Sunday at eight o'clock, or every other Sunday, you said at eight o'clock. You're doing this that's it we're at is so awesome.

Yeah, I have one in Minneapolis. So she's seven, you know, seven o'clock her time eight o'clock or time to here in Atlanta. We're on cell phones, and we're talking about it and and we rotate in this in these themes called connection year commitment year and commission year. connection here is all about the tenants of our faith. What do we believe? Why do we believe it? What's the foundation of our faith? The second year, we set goals and examples and devotions around commitment. Now that we say this is what we value and believe, how do we live it out? Right? It's word and deed, not just word. And so how do we live this out? And if we say love is a value of ours, what's that look like in our family? How do we demonstrate it? And then the last year's Commission, in fact, this year when the year commission, and so this year, we're talking about? How do we teach them how to share the gospel? How do we teach them that instead through prayer, how do we teach them how to serve others? How do we serve in the community night, we don't have to go to Africa to do mission trips. We're gonna do mission trips in our own backyard. And so let's do mission as a family, not individually. So we could take a mission trip as a family, or we could do community activities as a family. And it has significantly I tell you, the year of commission has had more impact on our life because it all comes together connection commitment Commission, in that commission you when we open up our hands and our hearts and give it away.

So it's like a three year cycle where you're going through that.

This is our seventh three year cycle as a family and and the idea is that we're going to equip a generation to reach a generation. So what the Lord has done through my father is equip him too, and I was reached, right. And now, my father and mother and now I'm equipping to reach a generation of my kids, and then they will be equipped to reach a generation of their kids, at least, you know, we don't have the power of transformation. But we do have the power to tell our kids who he is and what he's done on that cross and the sacrifice he made. And so they understand the who, of our center. So, God honoring Christ centered mission and scope, that's our aim.

Wow, if I'm understanding this correctly, you guys have been doing family chats via zoom and other ways long before COVID forced everybody to do be doing that. Yeah. So but how has COVID affected your family relationship and these things that you're talking about? Man, I

tell you, not at all, really. But what it has done, you know, whenever we're dealing with any tough issues, like COVID, or anything else, we go back, what we're teaching our kids is one important fact, I really want your listeners to hear, God isn't looking for our best for our family. He's not looking for what parents can come up with. And Wanda can come up with my wife, as the pathway forward for our family, that's great, but what he's looking for is for his best, so God isn't looking for your best, he's looking for his best for your family. And so what it does, when we go into situations, like the pandemic is set, etc, we go back to the cross. And we remember what happened there, we see the sacrifice to surrender the humility into dependency of Christ. And we remind them that that's where our power source is. That's where, you know, that's what we're going to find refuge and peace and, and all of that, at that cross. And so for us, when we look at the pandemic, we see it as part of life. It's just another part of life, like so many other things, whether it be illnesses, sickness, death, whatever, whatever. The idea is, where do you go in crisis situations? And who do you turn to? You see, when you're dealing with any crisis situation, it comes down to those things. Where do you go? And who do you turn to. And if you don't have that peace, that that place of refuge that that place where you can lay it all there and find peace, you find great anxiety. And that's why I believe we're seeing what we're seeing today in our society, where 33% of our young folks are committing suicide, where families are being fragmented and displace, where we began to talk about things. You know, a lot of parents returned home during this pandemic, and they didn't know their kids at all. They barely knew their spouse, because they had been away and trying to change the world. But the real reality is, it starts in the home. And that's where we're gonna be authentic and transparent. But the centerpiece of that, in our perspective, is to say, when we're in troubles like this, or challenging times like this, where do we go? And who do we call along? For us? It's, it's the cross. And it's Christ Jesus.

Amen. Amen. So you started having these family devotions, you started being intentional with your family, but you had a plan you you devised a plan, you set goals. How do people get started with that? I know you wrote a whole book on it. So I'm kind of setting you up for that. So let's go for it.

We put a little bit in the book, due to delay, but you know what we started it. You know, one thing I did, you know, one thing I was fairly decent at, I knew how to write business plans, right? We learned in places like Coca Cola, how to write multibillion dollar funded business plans in 45 minutes. And so I said, Hey, why don't I learn some of that, right? That was pretty effective. And what if I apply a little bit of that learning to, to my own personal life, of course, alone, God's Word, God's word was the leading source. And as I said, one of the things I realized, in order to be effective in business, I need to have a purpose, I need to be extremely focus. And I need to execute very well. And so the purpose was clear, were to glorify God and enjoy him forever. That was clear. And how do I teach the family to do that, and disciple, the family, etc. Now, you know, I wanted to be focused. And so we wanted to create a plan and that plan, we teach parents how to design of spiritual family plan, step by step, looking at values in their life vision statements, you know, I think about a vision statement, if we don't have a vision statement, which is the horizon that we're to look at as a destiny that we want to see when our kids would not want to five years old when they're 21 years old, we're trying to make disciples who will remain disciples and start right when they're 21, not five. And so how can we be intentional? To do that? Let's start with a plan. Unless you write it down, everything tells me if you write it down, you have to think about it, it gets things done. And so why not write out and map out a plan to be intentional with your family. So that's where we started. And and so we started to talk about our values, our vision for the family, what we wanted that to look like, how to achieve vision, his mission, and we wrote down statements around how we're going to achieve it. Well, how do you get there? Well, you got to set some some milestones, we call them goals, right? Yeah. And so we start to look at goals around those three rotational years connection, commitment can commissioned only one year at a time. And then how do you teach different age and stage, you know, five year old different than a 15, year old, etc. So we map that out help you map that out as a parent and, and then one thing I really get excited about, is adopting a family member, what about praying for a family member who included don't know Christ, and just pray for him as a family. And then finally, we entered into a family covenant where we made promises to one another. And one of the promises that they made is that we would continue this family planning process and discipleship process for the rest of our life.

And your family

chose family chose that. And secondly, they chose that before they they married their significant other that they would also sit in on this process. So I know my no daughter in law, I know my son in law. I know their spiritual formation, because they said on our calls, at least six months to a year it wasn't, you know, hey, you had to right quote, unquote, right, right. But I know him because I heard him I talked to him we shared and they experience what we experienced. And you know, if they didn't want to come on these calls, we knew that was kind of a red flag, right? Yeah. So anyway, those are some things we got started. And we still doing that today.

Wow. So you actually have some resources on your website, a free family planning worksheet to get you started, that you can download on your website, and I'll make sure to put the links for that in the show notes here. But you have Do your children believe calm and victorious family.org. And I'll make sure that those are in the show notes here. But you know, you've got some really good stuff there.

We have devotional guys, seven day devotional guys, 70 per guys, we got a ton of resources for parents, we got one of the largest libraries of resources for parents and so many different areas, some podcasts, etc. So yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So how did you decide that you know what, I'm going to take this whole thing that we're doing with our family, and I'm actually going to put it in a book, you know, which is called Do your children believe, because that's, that's what led us to me, you know, 2017, when you came to cornerstone to talk about this, and, you know, my family, we I grew up and my dad had a family vision for us. And it's still right by the door, whenever you come in and go out, you know, you can look at it, and he gave us all our own framed versions of it as well. So what you were saying was something that resonated with me, because my father had had his same has a similar vision and plan for us. How did you take that to the next step to say, you know, I'm gonna write this in a book, because other people need this too.

You know, I never had this vision. I wanted to write a book and get it out there. A lot of people see that. But you know, as I was on the circuit, and we, all of a sudden, we were training 1000s of churches and parents, with, with Jon Snow with Victoria's family material. Okay, I started out just sharing what we did. We started our home, doing these family discipleship. And so people in the church started to ask us, you know, what, what are you doing at home that's different, your kids responding seem to be more mature, etc. I don't know if that's true, but at least that's what they thought. And so they started, we started talking about this, this process that I just explained to you. And so they said, Well, will you come and teach this in our church? And shall I come, I just want to give it away. And so we start teaching this this one day workshop called charting your family spiritual journey. And so we were training parents on how to design this written plan. And it doesn't need to be sophisticated. You know, it could be whatever you feel comfortable with. And so we just start training on that. And next thing, you know, we're having 1000s of parents sign up for this major family ministry start to connect with us. And all of a sudden, we looked around we trained 100,000 families on how to write a spiritual plan. 30,000 churches signed up. And so you know, when you go out here in the profession, they say, Hey, you do you have a book? I don't have a book, you know. So when you go start writing your book, and so I said, Fine. I'll start writing this book. 2009. I wrote out 14 sample chapters, and I threw it in the trash and said, I want to write a book. Well, some eight years later, again, I'm out here and people say where's your book? And I don't have a book. But one person in the audience that we were doing a training with he was a huge agent book agent and said, Terrance, I want you to write a book. I'll do all the heavy lifting. I'll shop it to the publishers, I'll do all that stuff. And so he said, Have you written anything? See, I have 14 sample chapters, they're probably not even worth it. But this this way, you'll get off my back. So I send a 14 chapters, he loved it. He says, When you're gonna do your book, I thought you're gonna throw it away. So anyway, we make a long story short, we end up doing the book, published in 2017. February, with Thomas Nelson Marge, is number two, among the best sellers list behind Tony Evans untold. Tony Evans, Yo, come on, man, you could have slacked off from one. But but it's just you know, Lord, open doors. First time author. Yeah. It's just been such a blessing. And now this book is around the world. We're training parents, it just gives a snapshot as to our journey. And his process of these components, these elements of how to write a written spiritual plan for your family.

He man and now you're doing this pretty much full time, right?

Oh, man, we're full time. Lords opened up the door. to Now we train trainers and coaches and certified them. Because it's just too large of a volume witness scale. We also do workshops and develop content. So full time when 32 countries right now have 65 trainers and want to expand that to these 10,000. Our prayers, Lord, you know, open up the doors so that we can reach every Christian family and they have a written spiritual plan today, less than 1% of Christians have a written spiritual plan to lead guide and develop their their spiritual formation to children. How do we turn that tide and make a difference? And I believe that it starts with writing it down, remembering what he's done, and putting that into practice at home.

Amen. Amen. That's so great that you're doing that. And you know, this, this thing that started off as just your wife challenging you to take the spiritual leadership of your family has really set a new course for you. And where you thought that you were just going to make an impact in the marketplace. Now you're making an impact in the marketplace and the home. Yeah, yeah. And that. That's so cool. How God, one little comment, steered your steered your life in a in a different direction. Which is amazing.

Yeah, it really did. You know, it kind of reminds me of when Steve Jobs challenged John Sculley, journalists with Pepsi at the time, he had led the Pepsi generation and, and John, Steve Jobs, obviously, he was launching apple. And as he was recruiting, he said, John, you're doing great things with pepsin. But we were trying to change the world here. So do you want to continue to make color water? Do you want to change the world? We're computing. So John, you know, talk to me, John joined Apple computer as a result of that. And I just think about that, because, you know, from a simple motivation, self motivation to just LSM candy, and seeing that vision and being able to start my own business and then lead, interestingly enough, years later leading the number one beverage company in the world. A simple question for my wife, has, has begun through the grace of the Lord, to impact families around the world. It's a very humbling position because as my wife often says, I know you're not capable of doing that. So so it has to be the Lord working in and through you. Because we're you wouldn't be you wouldn't even be close to doing this stuff. And it was never on my radar to be in family ministry. But it was on my radar, to raise a generation that can make a difference that can happen.

Amen. Amen. I love your story of how God has just used you and he's continuing to use you and I'm just so grateful that we're connected. But I can't wrap up this episode without asking. You know, just like the the Emmaus road story, the disciples were walking with Jesus, but they had no clue that it was him. Until they sit down at the table. Jesus blesses the food and breaks the bread and then their eyes are open to they realize that it's him and then poof, he's gone. And I love what they say in Luke 2432 They turn to each other and say weren't our hearts burning within us along the way as he was revealing the Scriptures to us? So terrorists just like those guys, where do you look back at your life now? And look and you say who Jesus really was there but I just didn't see it at the moment.

You know, one of the things as as what really sparked man and helped me to write this book and also lead this ministry is that my mom was really the spiritually to the home as well. And I remember we used to, although dad used to come In the church and be there and invest in us, but Mom was the real spiritual leader in the home. And we used to sit around a coffee table. And she used to walk us through the old King James, you know, 50 ton Bible, this thing was like 11. By 17. You know, King James, it had just Holy Bible cross it, it weighed about 50 tons. And we stroll through there, and she read it, and so forth. We talked about it, and it was King James, so we can understand every other word. But I just remember, as a young man sitting there with my family around the around a coffee table, we called it with this big, huge Bible. And mom just trying to make the text simple to us. Dad doing his part. And I just saw, I thought, right, this, there's something that's bigger than us. There's something that's more powerful than us. There's someone that can change things that we can't change. It's beyond our capabilities. And if this guy is who he say he is, then I at least need to investigate this truth to find out on my own, if he's really who he say he is. And so that opened up my eyes around, you know, just sitting around the table, right, with mom and dad and the family, discussing who this crisis is, and, and I'm like, wow, this guy is really who he say he is. I need to lease, investigate it and find out for myself if he's really real. And that took me on a journey of Thurs to say God, who are you? Who am I? Well, who is this Christ because I know I need him. And then what is the hope that I have in him. So that's what started me on my journey. As a young man, mom and dad sitting around a table with this big time King James Bible, I couldn't understand. But she made it as simple as she could. So that we not to tell us this is what we have to believe. But simply to introduce this truth to us and say, Now you go and investigate it to see if it's really real. And if you find it to be real, then ask Him into your life, which he already knows your name before, you can even think of him. Because as Paul says, we don't seek Him, not one of us, but he has already sought us. And he's already kind of wean us in. And we simply respond to the call. And so I pray that I just think my my mom, or my grandparents, or all the people in my life, who helped me to see the call, but more importantly, to investigate the call on my own. And then to find him at the foot of the cross all my knees and Lord, forgive me, forgive me for my selfishness, forgive me for my self righteousness, forgive me for my arrogance, my pride and so many other things. And I want to know who you are. Make yourself known to me. And that's what he's done.

Amen. Amen. You know, my follow up question to that is, you know, I love the picture that you painted, by the way like that's, I can see that scene happening, like, just unfolding in front of me. If you could yourself, go back in time in your own timeline, and visit young Terrence, what is happening in your life right then? And what? What piece of advice would you want to give yourself?

Yeah, regarding this topic, you know, I was a young achiever, and yeah, I was a pitcher. Right. So I was a baseball pitcher. You know, pitchers have a certain mentality, man. We were, you know, we it's like Muhammad Ali said, he said, when he throws a punch, he's not trying to just hit a guy. He's trying to put his fist to the guys. He's trying to knock him out. He's trying to dominate right? pitchers have that same mentality, right. We're in every play. We want to you know, we want to throw the ball so hard that the catches it goes through the Cactus Club. Yeah,

exactly.

Well, you know, I I grew up in what I would call performance theology. It was hellfire and brimstone. Every Sunday, man we were going to hell on every Sunday. It was just a matter of when my brother and I were just trying to figure out where we're going. So So I was always trying to do the right thing, but fallen short, right? And so I realized something and I would tell my young my younger self, I can never earn his favor is not about what I do. See, I grew up thinking I had to do this and do that. And in every religion, it's about do, but what changed my life later is that to realize all of that, I was wrong. It was it's not about what I do to earn God's favor. It's really about what he's done. And once I began to understand two things that I want parents to teach one, God's sovereignty, and his his amazing love, and His grace. So it's three things. And once I started to focus on that, on what he's done on that cross, man, that performance theology went out the window. But here's what happens. That Romans theology is right. It's about what he does, yeah. However, I fell madly in love with that, see, I look, I want kids to fall madly in love with Christ because of what he's done on the cross. But they can't fall madly in love with Christ, if they don't know what he's done. And so when less than 10% of our Christians read God's word on a daily basis, they'll never know what he's done. If they don't worship together, they'll never know what he's done. If they don't pray to Him and communicate, they don't know what he's what he's capable of doing. So once I understood that processes, turned that the Lord turned that in my life, from performance, to just focusing on him and what he's done in his grace, my life start to shift significantly. And now I'm compelled to do because of what he's already done, not the other way around. So that's what I would tell myself, you can't perform your way to heaven, or to earn his favor. It can only be focused, if you have faith in His grace, that he is sufficient and that he is who he say he is. That's what I would do.

Wow. So you'd go back and basically witness to yourself even more

just witness to myself, Man and people around me, it's not about what you do. It's about what he's done. And, and I was falling short, trying to earn his favor, trying to be good enough. And so many people are seeking affirmation not only with God, but they're seeking affirmation in life itself. And you'll find that people that struggle with life, they have struggled, because they have never been affirmed. And what you want is to be affirmed in life, you want to know that you matter for something, right? It doesn't have to be anything big. It's just matter for something. And I know that we matter to God, I know that we matter, my children matter, my wife matters, my grandkids matter. But more importantly, what is my purpose is to glorify Him, not glorify turns. And when you're a pitcher, you're looking to be glorified. You want to be the pitcher, man, you want to be the man. But in Christ, humility is glorification. I don't like I don't like humility, and dependency and sacrifice and surrender. Those aren't words that I really kind of like, yeah, and let's go, you know, but if you tell me about achievement, recognition, award and all that, I like that stuff, it makes me feel good. And so I want to move folks from how you feel to what is true. Because what is true may be totally opposite of how you feel. And so this is not a feel three theology. Right? This is a done theology. Let's focus on that story.

Amen. Amen. You know, brother, you have basically just laid out the gospel in like three or four different times there. And I would feel like I'm missing a huge opportunity. If I didn't ask you to help somebody lead somebody in a prayer if they wanted to take that step to go from feeling to truth, to make Jesus the Lord of their life.

Absolutely. Well, Father, God, we, we first come to you with great humility, and in the name of Christ Jesus. And we give you all praise, honor and glory. Father, for those out there who may not know who you are, Father, we pray that they will seek you in an earnest way to come to know what truth is. Father, you, we know that your Word will never come back void. And so we ask that You through Your Grace, would make yourself known and that those within our reach would fall madly in love with who you are and what you've done. So follow those that are even struggling today to even even know where to start. them. Start in your book of John and let them ask the questions. Father, who are you? And Father, make yourself known to them in such a way that they will come to seek you like they've never had before. Father, we know that you are all powerful. We know that you are sufficient. The father we were in a place that's challenging truth at every time. And Father, we pray for families we pray for Families we've paid for parents who or whoever has authority in the home, whether it's grandparents, single parent, traditional parent, it doesn't matter, Father, we pray that they would introduce your truth to the generation that they're raising, and that they will come to fall madly in love with who you are and what you've done. So far, we're humbled just by the opportunity to be able to share your good news. But let that good news be fruitful. Let it be reached the nations to the end of the nation so that this nation, and every nation can be transformed through the power of the good news. In Jesus name. Amen.

A men, amen. Brother, thank you so much for that, I really appreciate you investing into the audience that God has entrusted me with, and pouring out some of the vision that you've laid out for your family with people here. And I know that as people are listening, they're probably thinking, What? What can I do? What's that first step that I can take? And so I just want to ask you that right now, like for somebody that is that you're listening, and you've been moved by what Terence has been talking about, what is that first step that they can take just something simple that they can do today? To get started?

Yeah, I just say, simply get on your knees and say, God, show me your path, way forward. You know, imagine a room with four walls, three of those walls, is just drywall and one of those walls have a window. And what I ask people is, forget about the noise of the other three walls, look outside of the window and glaze at it, and say, Lord, who are you? And what would you have me to do? Let me get to know you in a way I've never known you before. You know, was that was my prayer, I want to get to know you. In a way I've never known you before. And you lead guide and direct my path. I don't have to figure this out. You know, you know, but stare outside that window. Glaze upon his magnificence. And really investigate to say Is he really who he say he is. And if you find that he is truly that person, after, after the investigation, and after your prayer, and after that, call it to even go deeper in your faith. If you even are if you're a Christian, I believe he will meet you. In that view, you'll meet you right where you are. But start there and God Who are you? Are you really who you say you are? Tell me who I am. And show me who the Savior really is. And I believe he'll meet you at that place.

Amen. And I want to encourage you that everybody that's listening to take, take a moment and do that today. Get on your knees, get grab a notebook, ask those questions that Terrance just asked and ask that of God and write down the answers write down what God says to you. And I'd love to hear back from you. And you know, you can post on Facebook, or Instagram or email me at John along the way@gmail.com. And I'd love to connect with you about that. But you know, terrorists you've you've gave some such great information and wisdom today. How can people find out more about you and what you're doing?

Yeah, I mean, so many ways, go on social media going on website, victorious, io, US victorious. family.org love to connect with you love be praying for you. We have a free PR guy seven day prayer guide for you devotional guide for you. We'd like to give that to some gifts, but just connect with us and we'd love to pray for you. So victorious. family.org. And of course, you know, pick up a copy of the book. And I always say pick up 10 copies so you can get to friends. Is that, you know, we you know, get your children bullies. Is that question. I think it's one of the most important questions we can ask ourselves as parents.

Amen. Amen. Well, Brother, it's been a pleasure to have you on this podcast and to reconnect with you. And I'm just grateful that you've allowed me to join you along your way.

Thank you, Brother John. This has been awesome man. Appreciate you