Focus on the Promise, Not the Problem - Robert J Morgan’s Journey AlongTheWay 28

one weekend, we were together and I was frustrated. And I said, I don't think that we'll ever get to know each other if we don't get married. And we were just sitting in the front seat of a car, and she said, is that a proposal? And I said, Well, I guess it is I didn't really know that I was proposing. Or maybe I knew, but I didn't quite know how to go about it. Yeah. And she said, Well, that's the funniest proposal I've ever had. And as I said, Well, I don't know when I was, you know, very flustered. And she said, Well, when do you want an answer? I said, Well, expeditiously. I shall use that word expeditiously. And she said, Well, the answer is yes.

Welcome to along the way. I'm john better as a your host, fellow traveler. Thank you for joining me along my way is I tried to become more like Jesus every day. I love talking with fascinating people and learning how God has met them along their way. But this along the way, conversation I have the privilege and honor of talking with Pastor and author, Dr. Robert J. Morgan. If you want to know how you can find God's promises and focus on them rather than your problems, then you will really enjoy hearing our conversation. I'll get to that in just a moment. But I want to make sure that you know that you can hear all of my episodes, even the ones that you might have missed by visiting my website along the way dot media, or simply subscribing to along the way and your favorite podcast app. You can also find along the way on Facebook and Instagram. I'm starting and along the way email subscriber list. If you would like to be notified of episodes, and any other special announcements, please consider joining my email list. The link will be in my show notes to reach me electronically. You can email me at John along the way at gmail. com. My social links and web address are in the show notes. I look forward to hearing from you. And now here's my along the way conversation with Dr. Robert J. Morgan

Dr. Robert Morgan, it's a pleasure to have you along the way on my podcast.

Thank you, john, you know, I've loved and appreciated you for a long time. And so it's just really special for me to be here with you.

Yeah, we've had the pleasure of having you on real life several times now. And it's, it's always been wonderful to work with you. And the first time that I had a lot of interaction with you was through your book, worry less, live more. That book, I actually gave it to a friend of mine. Later that Christmas, who was dealing with worry and anxiety. I just was so happy to know that they were going to hear the words of God written from you.

Yeah, well, I've always battled anxiety. I think it runs in my family. But I found the passage and Philippines for that says rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again rejoice. Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything but in every situation petition with thanksgiving present your requests to God and the peace of God, which passes all understanding will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus and it goes on from there. But it seems to me that is the Lord's definitive formula for dealing with anxiety and worry. And so the book worry less live more is really just an essential breakdown of that passage. Yeah, I

know it blessed me a lot. So thank you for writing.

I'm thrilled with that. And that's just

one of many books that you've written. We also had you on recently for

always near near

Yeah. And we're going to have you on when your next book comes out to regardless of what it is. But you do know what we did. We do know that the next

book is the 100 Bible verses that made America Yeah, and I am so excited about my own discovery of the role of the Bible in American history. Some of the a lot of water learned as I researched, I didn't know, when I was growing up. I wasn't taught even in school in the 1950s and 1960s. When, you know, we didn't have all of the revisionism that we have today, right, I still was not taught American history very well, and particularly not the biblical aspects of it. So I think that this book 100 Bible verses that made America it's a biblical tour of American history. Yeah. And so I'm very excited about it. Very good. Well, I want to talk

more about that a little bit later. But before we get to that, I want to hear about your story, because this podcast along the way is all about how Jesus has been walking with us along the way in our lives. But we didn't necessarily realize it in the moment. I want to ask you to share your story, but just have how God has brought you to where you are now.

Yeah, well, I'm glad to do that. You know.

My story is just a testimony. Everybody has their own. I was born in 1952 and East Tennessee. My hometown was called Elizabethtown. And it was a small mountain town right on the Tennessee North Carolina border in the Appalachians. And my family that I was born into was wonderfully Christian. My father was a deacon in the local church, my mother taught Sunday school and sang in the choir. So I grew up in a very Christian environment. I had a very good church, a very wonderful pastor. And he had a big impact on me. He was a pastor for a long time in my life. And I remember very clearly, when Billy Graham would come on with his crusades, he would Billy Graham, the great evangelist was have crusades in various cities and they would record three or four or five nights and put them down to one hour length. And they'd be on black and white TV and we didn't get TV very well. It was snowy and you know, with shadows and everything. But I remember we would always gather and watch Billy Graham's sermons and those, you know that had a big impact on me later I met Dr. Graham. And I wanted to tell him what an impact I had. But I was so starstruck I was, you know, I couldn't really yeah, I made a mess of trying to talk to him. But, but anyway, I grew up with that kind of environment. But I will say that during my teenage years, I had a hard time I was introverted. No one had really taught me the mechanics of walking with the Lord, even though I think I was a Christian. And my first year in college was pretty miserable. But I transferred to Columbia International University when I was 19 years old, and the first night in the dormitory, and I'd never lived, you know, in any kind of setting. I hadn't even been to summer camp, so, so living with all of these guys was, was traumatic for me. It really was difficult for an introvert. Oh, yeah. But bill McCoy, who was also 19 came in and he had been wonderfully converted from a life of Drugs during the Jesus movement which was you know going on at that time and and he challenged me that I needed to give my life absolutely to the Lord in every way body mind and spirit past president future vocationally and personally and emotionally and relational. I mean he, he really came down pretty hard on me which is exactly what I had been needing for someone to do and waiting without realizing it for someone to do. And so the next evening, which was December the sep tember the second of 1971 I yield in my life as fully as I knew after the Lord I knelt down by an old sofa at the end of the dormitory Hall. Bill was with me and we knelt down together, and I prayed and that was really the turning point in my life. It says though, the Lord flipped on a switch of adrenaline then when I was not paying that has never gone off and I'm 67 now and and that, you know, I think I was converted before them, but there was something about that experience, okay. They changed my life. And then I finished. I was I had very good mentors then, including Billy Graham's wife, Ruth, actually, in my college years, and, and then I went on to Wheaton graduate school and then Katrina and I were married. And then I began pestering. And so this will be our 43rd year of marriage and our 42nd year of pestering. So that's kind of my story in a nutshell. I look back and, and I'm just so grateful. There's an old him that says all the way my savior lead me. All the way my savior leads me What if I had to ask beside Can I doubt his tender mercy who through life has been my guide? And that's sort of the theme of my story.

Yeah. So when you went to college, and you had your your conversion experience there, but it was a Christian School. So what were you originally going there for?

Well, I knew, you know, even when I was a boy watching Billy Graham, on TV and watching my pastor in the pulpit, I was just drawn to preaching. I thought, this is the most wonderful thing in the world to stand up with a Bible in your hands, and to tell others about the Lord. And that's what I wanted to do. And I remember even as a boy growing up in the mountains, I grew up right beside a huge mountain and I would walk up that mountain and find a rock and, and try to preach, you know, to the squirrels and to the ferns and the jack in the pulpits all the wallflowers. So I knew something within me was really yearning towards preaching and teaching and ministering. But I was confused. And I also wanted to be a architect and my father owned a business of metal fabricating business and he wanted me to go into that business. So I was I was just conflicted and didn't know really what I wanted to do but that yearning, which I think was a call to ministry, really to vocational ministry was so strong. And I went my first year of college to a Presbyterian school for it was a liberal arts school. And I was pretty unhappy there. And I didn't know what to do. And I remember someone told me about the school in South Carolina, Columbia Bible College, which is today, Columbia International University. And I wrote off and I got a academic catalog. And I very clearly remember sitting propped up in bed, looking at that and the courses that they offered, and the faculty, and the Lord has never audibly spoken to me. But there have been three or four times in my life when his voice was so unmistakable, that there was no question about it. And it says though, the Lord said, this is where I want you to go to school. So I pulled out the application sent it in, I'd never been at the school and didn't know anyone who went there and didn't know anyone, you know, I just wrote in and applied and they wrote back and said, you're accepted. And I told my parents and they were a little shocked by it. All right.

Because you were going to be an architect or something. Yeah.

But, but I packed up my things and drove to Columbia, South Carolina drove into the dormitory. They gave me my room. And later in the day, and what Bill McCauley who started challenging me to give my life thoroughly to the Lord. Bill is, has been up for many years a chaplain in the army since then we still stay in touch very regularly. I love that guy. But only the Lord could have orchestrated that. So that's kind of how, how this occasion came about when I yield in my life as fully as I knew how to Christ.

So you met your wife, and you got married. She's from Maine.

She's from Maine. She grew up in a little town in Maine, move to Florida, to be Secretary for a wealthy Christian lady there, and then decided that she wanted to go to Columbia Bible College. So she showed up there my senior year. And I was on a preaching team. And she was the secretary to the coordinator of that preaching team. So we work together every day, you know, coordinating our itinerary, but we never dated. And when I went off to Wheaton, we just kept writing to each other 13 cents was what the stamps were back then. But I would ride from wait. And we know we didn't have email or cell phones or anything. There's no way to really to stay in touch. You could use the pay phone. But it was very hard to coordinate. Yeah, you know, because you'd have to call from one payphone to the other. And so you'd have to coordinate when you're going to be at those respective pay phones and, and you'd have to have all your quarters and dimes and nickels. So mainly, we just wrote to each other. And one weekend, we were together, and I was very Frustrated, and I said, I don't think that we'll ever get to know each other if we don't get married. And we were just sitting in the front seat of a car and she said, is that a proposal? And I said, Well, I guess it is I didn't really know that I was proposing. Or maybe I knew, but I didn't quite know how to go about it. Yeah. And she said, Well, that's the funniest proposal I've ever had. And I said, Well, I don't know when I was, you know, very flustered. And she said, Well, when do you want an answer? And I said, well, expeditiously. I actually use that word expeditiously. And she said, Well, the answer is yes. And, and we had to go back until my parents saw strange happened in the front seat of the car. were engaged. Yeah. And so we got married, really not knowing if we even loved each other. But really, you know, but we just we worship because you were writing down Yes. And friendship is the basis for any marriage. And so we've been married next week will be 43 years. It's been a wonderful experience. together now she's disabled now. I'm pretty battling Multiple Sclerosis in a significant way. But we've had a wonderful marriage really, yeah. And ministry together, but that sort of came about? Well, I think the Lord knew that boy doesn't know how to do anything. I'm just going to have to do it for him.

And the Lord was right. Yeah.

That's great. So how long from that moment where you guys had that? That impromptu proposal in the front seat of that car until you guys actually got married?

Yeah, I don't remember that. But it wasn't too long, a few months. And we got married on August 28. And the reason that I remember that day is, I mean, obviously, I remember my anniversary but many years. Later, we faced a real crisis with a situation that we were dealing with. And it was on our 25th wedding anniversary. And I was so distraught, I said, I cannot enjoy our wedding anniversary, I am overwhelmed with anxiety. But a friend called me and he said, How are you doing today? It's your 25th wedding anniversary, and I said, I am miserable. I am so anxious, I can't even breathe. And he said, Well, he said, Don't be that way today. This is August 28 828. As an Romans 828, everything is going to work together for good. And I've never forgotten that. You know, it's been many years ago. But I wrote a book on Romans 828, called the promise. And that promise in Romans 828 For we know that all things work together for good to those who love the Lord to those who are called according to His purpose. That's the date of our wedding. So since then, Feel like every Christian ought to be married on a 28. And actually, in a way, we all are living on a 28 every single day, you know, every day is a 28 for the believer. Anyway, that's I'm getting off track. But that was our that was our anniversary or wedding was August 28 of 1976, which was the Bicentennial year. So America was celebrating its 200th anniversary that year.

That's cool. So how did you end up here in Nashville?

So for a year, I tried to find a church to pasture. We were newly married. We moved in for three, four weeks with my parents, and then I found a place. I wasn't very prepared for marriage. I thought that anybody would want to hire me to be a pastor. I mean, I'd been through Columbia International University, we can graduate school. We were up in the mountains and there weren't too many. There were a lot of churches and not that many pastors and I thought this would be, you know, I'll find a place to pastor and we went to 12 different churches, we call it Canada meeting, okay, no denomination trying out to see if they want you to be their pastor 12 different churches, as I recall, every one of them turned me down. So I started working at JC Penney selling shoes. And Katrina got a job at a discount store. And we spent the first year that way. And then on our first year, literally, literally, on our first anniversary, August 28, of 1977. A little church in Greenville, Tennessee, outside of Greenville, and a little rural community invited us to pasture and we moved there and it was our first anniversary. And later, many years later, a friend of mine, Bob Thomas, who lives in Elizabeth and I grew up with him and he had been a missionary to papa New Guinea and he said, Did I ever tell you what I gave you for your wedding anniversary? And I said, I don't remember that you gave us anything. He said, Yes. He said, I prayed. I gave you a prayer. He said, I was reading in the Bible, and the Old Testament where it says that when a man gets married, he should not go to war for a year after his marriage. And I prayed that you wouldn't get a church for a year after you're married, so you can just work on your marriage. And I said, so you're the one responsible for that suffering. You are Yeah, that's what I felt but, but literally, his prayer came true to the day and I didn't even know that I had prayed it. So we were there and Greenville, Tennessee for two and a half years. And then a church here in Nashville. The Donaldson fellowship Donaldson is our community, okay here in Nashville, but but this church column called us to be called me to be a pastor here, and we came on January 1 1980. So I've been here now for nearly 39 years. Oh, wow. Here at this Church and I was the senior pastor until a couple years ago. And now I've transitioned to the teaching pastor. Okay, and I speak once a month I preach once a month here, and the other three Sundays I try to find a place if anybody will have me

preach. And you also right and yes,

and I stay very busy writing.

Yes. How many books have you written? Now?

I don't know.

The answer with a lot of people I've talked with

Yeah, I don't even know how how I wouldn't know I mean, I have them listed. But the thing is that after so many years and so many books that come out and ancillary products, okay, or they come out, you know, they are republished under different names or parts of them are taken and morphed into other resources. Okay. Plus, there's the books that have been have ghostwritten. And some of them have been primarily written it, you know, but that it's under somebody else's name, and some of them have been booklet rather than sighs books. And so how do you put all of that together? So when people ask me, I just say 35 or so but okay, truly that the number of resources is a good deal higher than that, but I'm just grateful for the opportunity. Yeah.

So what caused you to say I'm going to write a book?

I didn't. That's another thing that I didn't really expect. I was taught to run out my sermons in manuscript form, okay. Or at least that's what I did. I think that I got some instruction about it, but I just found that, that if I could write out my sermon, my mother was a typing teacher. Okay, so she taught me to type. And I found that if I could tap out my sermon and advance, even though I didn't read it, but I would use the manuscript maybe for notes, especially in the earlier days of my ministry, that it would help me a great deal to get the word flow in my mind before I preached, and time I started thinking, I've got all these manuscripts, and it seems a shame to spend 20 hours working On this time that all up, then preach it to 70 people, and it's never heard again. What can I do with this? And so I began sort of crafting parts of those sermons and articles for magazines back then there were a lot of magazines. Yeah, I mean, today magazines are almost gone. They've gone the way of the newspaper. But back then we had lots of magazines. And so some articles would start appearing and decision magazine and moody magazine and, you know, leadership magazine, and the Southern Baptist had a lot of magazines that published articles. So, so without knowing it, I was building a resume. And then I want to write a little book that would help parents and my church lead their children to Christ. So I did that and one of the publishers wanted to publish it. And I did a sermon series called beyond reasonable doubt on how to prove beyond reasonable doubt the Christianity is true. And another publisher saw that and said, Can we publish it? From that point, I've never been without a book contract for, you know, 25 or 30 years. So it just happened. Now Nashville is as a hub of Christian publishing. Right? Right. So it helped that I was here and that, you know, sometimes editors or people would come to my church or something, or that I would have those contacts. I think the Lord brought me here, because that's where those contacts could could occur more easily. But truly, John, I was surprised that that and I'm very humbled about it, because I know there are a lot of people longing to be published. And it's very hard today. Yeah. And, and I've been all of these years and I don't have enough time to write all the things that I have opportunities for. So it's just the Lord. I mean, it's nothing to be ashamed of or proud of. It's something just to be thankful for and to pray. The Lord will use it. Yeah, success. is not arriving at certain statuses and life. It's simply doing day by day what God wants you to do. You know, that's all success is someone 3916 says, You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I begin to breathe every day was recorded in your book. So success is simply doing what God wants you to do. Day by day, and every morning, I have my devotions, and I say, Lord, what do you want me to do today? And I try to plan out my day, and just do what God wants me to do that day. We have to live, you know, in one day increments, it doesn't mean we don't plan or we don't have aspirations. But we don't know if we'll even be alive tomorrow. You know, we can't do anything about yesterday. We can't do much about tomorrow. So so we just have to do day by day what we feel God has called us to do.

Yeah. I love that. You just felt like there was something more for these sermons that God has taken you through and given you and you've crafted with those with him. And you said, There's got to be something more. And it just led into articles that which led into books. And you just said, God's not done with this yet basically.

Yeah. And it's not because the sermons run it goes because the Scripture is so supply. The Bible is the most extraordinary book, it is utterly unique. There has never been or will never be another book that has the dual authorship of human beings and the Holy Spirit of God. That is every word written by fallible human beings, but is in its essence and in reality, infallible and inherent. Yeah. And so the privilege of opening that book and studying it every day, and you learn new lessons. Yeah, I mean, most of the lessons that I've learned have not come out of periods of studying the Bible as much as just reading it in my devotions every day. You know, today I was in the portion and Luke, Luke's Gospel about the sower that sow the seed. And he said, the seed is the word of God. And it's never been more important to sow that seed in our brains and in our culture and in our children's lives than it is now. So the privilege of standing up with a Bible in our hands and saying, This is what the Lord says, This is absolutely true. It is true, like nothing else is true. And to explain it to people. And you know, there are 66 books. I feel like when you open the page of the pages of the Bible, you open the covers, you're walking into a room with 66 friends, and every one of those books has a different message. You know, we should all know Malika we should all know Isaiah, we should all know collisions. We should spend the rest of our life I tell people the Bible is small enough to hold in your hand. Large and Enough to study forever and deep enough to satisfy you throughout eternity. So I never get tired of studying the Bible, and learning lessons there and trying to tell other people what I've seen or what I found. Yeah.

Now when you're spending time with the Lord and your devotions, you tell me what that looks like and how God speaks to you through that.

Yeah, I have a desk, I'll take you up if you want us upstairs. It's in a bedroom upstairs. It's really an old desk that my Uncle Tom made when I was a boy, my parents were school teachers. And they never got me involved in sports. And I'm not coordinated. So I'm glad they did. But they they can mention Michael Tom, who was a craftsman to make a desk for me when I was just a boy and I've always sort of been, you know, I've loved my desks. So anyway, I have that in a window upstairs. So every morning I get up and get my cup of coffee and I have a journal and I'll Well, my prayer notebook, it's right over there. And I'll journal a little bit not much, just enough to say today. You know, here's what I'm doing. And then I'll say today I'm reading from and I read, I start where I left off the day before. So right now I'm leading reading through the Gospel of Luke. And I just read, maybe I'll read two or three chapters, or maybe I'll read two or three verses. Or maybe I'll read the same chapter over five days in a row, or 10 days in a row. When I started, Luke, I was so occupied with the story of Elizabeth and Zach Ryan, chapter one. I read that chapter every day for about a week. And I kept saying the lessons in it here you have, these are the first characters in the New Testament story, the first characters that God mentions in any way since Malika 400 years. Yeah, and you have this old couple up in the mountains, who are old and they're dealing with unresolved grief and their prayer for a child has never been answered, but they are still serving, and their biggest ministry is ahead of them still. So I just read that chapter over and over again jotting down lessons, you know, that I learned. Really I learned this from Ruth Bell Graham, Billy Graham's wife, when I was a sophomore in college, we would visit with her in her home and concrete. Billy was always away preaching. And she said, Do you have a notebook habit, Robert said, I don't know what a notebook habit is. And she showed me her notebook. And she said, every day I'll write a little bit and make my notations from my Bible study. And she showed me how to do it. I've been doing it ever since then. I was so inspired by her. She was the most extraordinary woman apart from my wife and daughters that other from it. So anyway, I'll I'll go through, you know, my Bible study time. That's when God speaks to me. And really most of my creativity occurs and that time, and then I've got my prayer lists. So I'll turn the page and I have a page a thing. Giving page and I'll write down, something I'm thankful for. And I've got a page with all the members of my family. And I pray for them. And I pray for my church and I pray for the nation. And I've got a map of the world, and there that I pray for. And I've got my itemized prayer list on a monthly basis. So a lot of times I'll pray out loud, you know, I think that's a great idea. A lot of times I'll have a hymn book nearby because I love the hymns are so ran. Yeah, they're, they're the richest treasure trove of devotional material apart from the Bible in the history of the church, is that hymn book and I work on scripture memory. You know, that's a part of my quiet time to right now I'm trying to memorize the first eight verses of Psalm 37 Fret not, you know, is the is the refrain that goes on and on. I'm having a hard time doing it. But I'm just every day I'm reading that passage out loud and working on memorizing it, but I'm a huge advocate of Scripture memory. So so I just spend maybe 3045 or 60 minutes every morning, and Devotional Bible reading, making notations in my journal, and praying, and maybe looking into the hymn book, maybe working on some scripture memory, or maybe reading a devotional book right now, somebody gave me an old book by Andrew Murray on the blood of Christ, which is phenomenal. He says things that never thought about before. The older writers are the better ones. And so why do you think that they had time to think

they really, you know, they weren't so distracted by all the social media and the noise and the airplane schedules and everything we have. They had a much quieter life and they had time to think and to pray and to ferret out proves in the Scripture. That's another thing with Graham told me she's I mean, I got to get this from her. She said, Robert, for every new book you read, read an old one. She said CS Lewis says that and it's true. She showed me some of her older books that she loved the writings of FW bore him, for example, and had a collection of his books which I have over there as well. But at any rate, I just had these devotional exercises that involve those different components. And from the age of 19, when my mentors at Columbia International University and, and Mrs. Graham, and a few others taught me how to begin having that daily quiet time is what they called it, starting every morning with your devotions with the Lord from that day till this one, I've almost never missed a day. I can't say I've never missed a day. I mean, one day this week, I had to get up at three o'clock to catch a plane, three o'clock in the morning, and I got here and I was dead. And I rested a while and I showered but then not you know, it was about 11 or 12 o'clock, but I said before I do anything, I've got to have my devotions. So I went up to my desk and spend half an hour there and there was something about it that quiet and Your mind and and restores your perspective. Yeah. You know ministry is overflow. So if you don't have the intake, you can have the the output. Someone said if you're headed they said, if your outflow exceed your intake your upkeep will be your downfall. So say

that one more time.

I hope I can. If your output exceed your intake, your upkeep will be your downfall. That's really good. It is good, isn't it? Yeah. They were saying it actually financially. Okay, but it's true spiritually. And emotionally. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

So, you've been a pastor for a long time. Yeah. How have you dealt with some difficult times? And how did you persevere through those?

Not well, I can't say that I like crises. I'm prone to anxiety and panic attacks. And I've had a lot of the kind of stresses that pastors have. But in addition to that I've had two or three extraordinary stresses. One has to do with a loved one. Another one had to do with the crisis at my church about 12 1314 years ago. And then another one, of course is Katrina's disability, which, you know, I'm a carrot caregiver. And gradually her condition has gotten worse. But I would say that these moments of crisis or difficulty, battled depression, battled discouragement peddling Zion, but the Lord has never let me give up. And you just have to go into the Scripture and find a promise. I mean, that it's as simple as that, john, when when I've been under such pain or stress that I didn't think I could survive, and literally I'm speaking, I would go up to that desk upstairs or somewhere else, and open my Bible and just open my journal. And that's when I arrived. I mean, if I'm deeply troubled, I may write several pages in my journal because it ventilate, yeah, your feelings and it allows you to get all of these feelings that are swirling around inside of you down in black and white, you can deal with them a little bit better. And then I'll open the Bible. And I'll say, Lord, I need a promise. And God always has a promise, therefore, what ever we may be going through, you will never face any crisis. But what God has placed a promise in the Bible for you just for that crisis. And so I just hang on to those promises. It's like hanging on, you know, to the end of a rope. And you hang on by faith and that pulls you through, but you can never give up. You know, the Bible says, Do not be afraid. Do not be discouraged. The LORD your God is with you wherever you go. And some nights I've just been in so much pain and anguish. But I have to force my mind to focus on the promise instead of on the problem. And if you can do that,

then you can get through it. Having a god mentality really changes everything. Yeah, yeah. I want to share a little bit of something that I think it was last year, because I guess it would have been last year because it was your anniversary, I sent you a text message. Happy anniversary, Dr. Morgan. And we just started talking a little bit through that and you started telling me about this trip that you and your you and your wife went on for your anniversary, and, you know, she's in a wheelchair. And so I'm thinking like, how is this possible and your, your listing all these amazing places, and you guys went to see the Mission Impossible movie, or something like that, but I just was like, Wow, what a unique perspective that you have, where it doesn't matter what your physical location is. You're with your wife that you love her. And you're having this date together. That was amazing. And through the movie, you guys travel all over the place. And it was just like, it was really encouraging for me to just to see your response to that it was just kind of like this fun, sweet thing. And to be able to see you guys interact in person. This, you know, since we since I got here, and we've had dinner together.

Yeah, I'm glad you got to make a train. Absolutely.

She's wonderful. I've enjoyed talking with her. But just to see, Your love has obviously grown over these 43 years.

Well, you know, Friday nights are our date night. Yeah, we still do that after all of these years. We don't go out very much because she has trouble eating. You saw tonight that she struggled to get her her fork or her spin up. And sometimes late in the day, she can't do it at all, but I try not to help her because she needs to write, you know, she needs to keep working on being as independent as she can be. But I'll cook although recently we've gotten So we order you know, from Georgia, but you ate with us out of the pool we we have 16 grandchildren and and one great grandchild. So we and we've had an above ground pool for a long time. And it sort of went went could put last year. So we just decided would put in a regular Yeah. And so we have a place out there to eat. So a lot of times on Friday night, we'll just go out there and order something from doordash and fight away the flies and yeah, but we you know, you've got to enjoy the simple things, right. We traveled when we could, but we can't travel now. And it's all right. I travel before my ministry. Yeah, I travel. You know, I rang daughter takes care of Katrina when I'm away for speaking engagements, except for that we really can't travel so we just that the important thing, John is to stay cheerful. Yeah, we just made up our minds. We're going to stay cheerful. If you let yourself get depressed That's just a spiraling downward you can afford. And it's not biblical. I mean, it's very natural. It's very human right? But the Bible says, Rejoice in the Lord always. And Jesus said, Be of good cheer on five different occasions. And he said things like, why do you weep? And the Bible says the joy of the Lord is your strength. So we really work hard to be cheerful. Now, I'll say this to you, without being afraid of saying it, you know, with Katrina's illness, if we're under too much strain, if she is then maybe we'll go to the doctor and say we need some medical help here, you know, with the mood fluctuation, right. This is a tough place we're in. So I'm not against seeing doctors and getting good medical help and, and sometimes getting some supplemental help to deal with things emotionally. But the foundation has always got to be spiritual. Yes, it's got to be rooted and grounded in Scripture. Sure, and in your relationship with the Lord and that's where the real joy and the cheer comes from.

As you look back at your life and your your walk with the Lord. And this This podcast is based around the amaze road story of how the disciples were walking with Jesus but had smile

favorite Bible story, and our very favorite Bible stories. Luke 24.

Yeah. So where in your life? Can you tell me about an experience where you didn't realize it right then but your heart was burning. And you realize that when you look back,

well, I can look back and many things that I would never have known to plan. Like just going to Columbia International University, I had no idea when I was unhappy, propped up in the bed. That And the Lord said go to that school, that that very day when I arrived there, this guy would walk into the room and challenge me to give my life completely to the Lord very abrasive Lee really, to be honest with you. I never knew When I started having devotions with a roommate across the hall that he was a close friend of billion with Graham, and that he would take me up to visit with Ruth and occasionally with Dr. Graham, and they were there. But that was life changing for me. I never knew when I was introduced to Katrina, who's the Secretary and the office, that that would be my wife. And I didn't imagine that for a long time until it happened. I didn't even know when I got engaged. I didn't know when I was turned down. 12 times for a pastor it yeah, that God had a different direction for my life that would lead me in Nashville and and when I learned to tap out my sermons that would lead to being a published writer. And I've been writing for many, many years for ministries connected with David Jeremiah. I mean, it's been very wonderfully fulfilling to me, and very enriching. It's been a tremendous part of my life to be associated with David Jeremiah. But I had nothing to do with that. I mean, one day, I got a phone call. And my publisher said, Would you be interested in writing for this magazine? called wanting a rider? And I said, Well, I'll give it a shot. And that was nearly 20 years ago. So I think, John, looking back, it is the Lord leading us. Like I said, all the way my savior leads me. And it all of those occasions, there is a burning, warm, wonderful sensation in your heart. Because you know, you're walking with God. Yeah. You know, the disciples didn't realize, until Jesus sit down and broke the bread. Jacob didn't realize it was in the desert until I woke up surely the Lord is in this place, and we didn't know it. We can't always know exactly when something is happening, the magnitude of what is happening, but we look back and we say the Lord was in that. It's what George Washington said 270 times was Providence. You know, the providential saw guidance of God. The Bible says he leads us in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yeah. And when I look back, you know, I have a sense of failure over my own legitimate failures all along the way. But when you look back and see how the Lord has led you, yeah, then you've just got to be full of rejoicing.

You just mentioned George Washington talking about Providence. Yeah, to what 270 some 270

times he was, he would say over and over again, if people do not recognize the providence of God and the establishing of this nation, then they don't deserve to retain this nation. Yeah, he was so convinced that God had providential orchestrated all of the not only the affairs of his life, but the fair's historically to bring about the United States of America, yeah, that he would never have imagined there would be a generation that didn't see the hand of God's Providence he called it the invisible hand behind all of this.

Yeah, well, let's talk about how God has potentially lead you into this new project that you're working on the 100 Bible verses that made America. Yeah. Tell me about this.

Yeah, this is, this is exciting. My publisher was wanting a book idea for my next book that I had on the contract. And I had about five ideas that I think were very rich ideas, but I wasn't sure they were some marketable, you know, how the market is today. And I don't know where it came from. But suddenly, I thought, What about a book 100 Bible verses that night America and I just threw it out to them. And instantly, they said, We want to do that. So then I thought, well, now I've got to do the research for it. I hadn't really heard. Yeah, so I did a deep dive into American history and could not believe all that. I mean, some of the books right here are actually literally on this table around us. I could not believe the impact of the Bible on from the pilgrims and the Puritans, to the founding fathers. Do you know that America the creation of America, the Declaration of Independence occurred in between the first and second grade awakenings. The first great awakening was the tremendous revival, that under George Whitfield and Jonathan Edwards and others that coalesced America, really and unified the colonies spiritually and morally and emotionally in a way that they never had before. And then then that led that provided the foundation for the momentum to sign the Declaration of Independence and the Revolutionary War. And then as soon as the war was over, the Second Great Awakening occurred with the cane Ridge revivals in Kentucky in the revivals up and down the Ivy League colleges and universities. On the eastern seaboard, and that coalesced and solidified American morality for 200 years, I mean, these revivals on either side of the signing of the Declaration of Independence, America wouldn't be here today without those two revivals. And the founding fathers, not all of them were Christian. None of them were perfect, but every one of them knew the Bible down to their fingertips. And there were specific Bible verses all along the way that sustained George Washington and john adams and Samuel Adams and john quincy adams and

and the founders of America's great fields like Benjamin Rush, who started American medicine. I mean, you're there, and Pennsylvania. So much of our American history started and Philadelphia and around Pittsburgh with the revolutionary war stories there. And all the way through with the abolition of slavery and Frederick Douglass and the great abolitionist in the north that was based on scriptural convictions and unchristian saying this is an evil, we've got to do something about it. And then even into the modern era. I remember when, when I was a teenager, on Christmas Eve, we sat down and turned on the TV like billions of other people. And we saw Apollo circling the moon would never humans had never been to the moon before. And we didn't even think we could and NASA didn't think we could until about three or four months before the launch, and they realized they had to do it or the Russians would get there. And at great risk, they sent those three men to the moon circling the moon and on Christmas Eve, we turned on our TVs and I remember the black and white and snowy and hard to see but you could see Earth, that little globe from the moon and they said we have a message for You could people on earth, and nobody, even NASA, not even the president and nobody knew what they're going to say. And they said it In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And they read the first 10 verses of Genesis and said, and so, from the moon, we wish you Merry Christmas and good night. I mean, all along the way, the Bible has shaped the history of our nation. And now the historians and the secularist are trying to erase it all. And I don't intend to let that happen. And as much as I can help it, yeah. And so that's really what's behind this, this book 100 Bible verses that made America we want to tell people here are the stories of the impact the Bible had to make this unique nation, which is unlike any other nation. It truly is a miracle here between on this undiscovered continent between these two shimmering seas that has been the missionary center center of the world now for so many years, and has been a beacon of liberty, and which brave men and women have shed their blood to bring freedom to people all over the world. There's never been a nation like this. And so the Bible has had a formative influence every step along the way. And so I tell 100 of those stories, I could have told 1000 of them.

Were you a big history buff before this?

I love history. Okay, I have since I was a freshman in college, and I had a professor who was eccentric and nerdy, and who would paced back and forth and wring his hands and tell his lectures in a very nervous voice, but he would tell the story of Western civilization in a way that just kept me on the edge of my seat. That's where I learned to love history, but honestly, I didn't have a good education in American history. I don't think children do anymore in school. So, you know, this is not a thorough study of American history, but I do think people will learn a great deal about American history and about the biblical nation of American history as they read this book 100 Bible verses that made America

Yeah. Before we started this podcast interview, you told me a little something that was really interesting about john quincy adams, would you mind sharing that

john quincy adams was the most fascinating character I studied. And I couldn't believe this, but he knew and served under George Washington, and he knew and served with Abraham Lincoln. His life spanned Washington to Lincoln. He knew both of those man because he was a boy during the Battle of Bunker Hill and his mother brought him the story of it is right here in this book. But as mother brought them to a hill where they could watch the Battle of breeds The Battle of Bunker Hill. And then then after the Revolutionary War when watching it became president john quincy adams was in his administration. And john quincy adams became his father's secretary at age 14. So he served in the administration of George Washington. And later he went on become the president and himself, but he only served one term and then he was beaten, you know, and was very embittered. But he went right back into the House of Representatives, the only president to then go back and serve in Congress. And the moment he was elected, and he got into the NASA representatives, he stood up and started arguing. It was like a blowtorch for the abolition of slavery. And he served term after term after term in the Congress. He was a rabble rouser. He was a deep Christian, and always advocating biblical principles and based upon his biblical principles. He believed in the abolition of slavery. Now he also interestingly enough Love to skin and get them the Potomac River. He was famous for his early morning swims in the Potomac River, but he stayed healthy and, and live to a very old age. And his last two years he died. And the United States Capitol really was an Abraham Lincoln was probably there. I could never quite verify this for sure. But his last two years or Lincoln's first two years in the US House of Representatives, so they serve side by side in the Congress. And Quincy Adams was getting up to to make a point and he killed over and they hollered, Mr. Quincy, Mr. Quincy, he's dead. But he wasn't. But they carried him to the office of the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and he died there. So he literally died and the United States Capitol while his colleague Abraham Lincoln was probably there or very close by So he was a man who loved the scripture knew it better than you or I do. And who served Washington and with Lincoln during the course of a life in which he fought tooth and nail for the abolition of slavery.

Wow. So, in this day and age, the history is not being taught the same way. In fact, there's a revisionist history that is happening. Could you explain why it is so important to hear the truth of how the Bible is, has been so formative in our nation?

I'll be very honest, I think that the secularist are so determined to erase Christian history from our books, that they'll do anything to deny the influence of the Bible to rewrite history, to write the Bible and Christian influences out of the American story and order to pave the way for a kind of society, which is totally secular and disconnected from anything would respond to divine or biblical authority. And we see this everywhere. Do you know the Governor of Illinois just signed the bill. So that in Illinois, every school is required to teach the contributions made to Illinois history by the gay and lesbian and transgender community? Well, that's their business to do that. But it makes me ask as a Christian, those who believe the Bible had a much greater influence than anybody else. Why is it illegal to even open a Bible in the public schools? Why is it that our heritage is the only heritage that is banned and forbidden from ours? Right, right. And that's what we're dealing with. Here. I just read a biography of Woodrow Wilson. It was very thick, it was two or three inches thick. And Woodrow Wilson was a flawed man. I'll be the first to say I don't in a lot of ways I don't like Woodrow Wilson, but he was tremendously impacted and informed by his Presbyterian faith, and by his belief in Scripture and the sovereignty and, and in the providence of God. But in this huge biography, there was only like one paragraph devoted to his Christian faith. So people are just expanding this from the record, because if they can disconnect America, from our biblical Judeo Christian heritage, then they have freedom to go and whatever secular, godless, evil way they want to. Yeah, and it's a reenactment of Romans chapter one. You know, the last part of Romans chapter one, when Paul talks about how a society just tumbled downward and a spiral of godlessness until there is nothing left but chaos. And so I think it's important for us to know where our history the way it really occurred, right? We may not be able to change our society, but we can say like Joshua did as for me, and my sway will serve the Lord.

That's very good. I think it was George Orwell that wrote, who controls the present controls the past controls the past controls the future. I think it's the 1984 of that book. That's still very true people that are controlling our president right now are trying to change the past so they can rewrite the future.

Yeah, and and you know, Christians are intimidated now. We are really a lot of pastors and and I have to fight this myself. And I'm, I can be pretty audacious. You know, I'm a stubborn hillbilly from the mountains of Tennessee, but we feel like we have to be so careful, to be totally non offensive and everything we say. And I do think we've got to be very loving and gentle, and Christ like, and being Christ like there are times when you have to say, this is the truth. And I love you so much. I'm going to say this even if you don't like it. I don't want to be political in my ministry, but I Also don't want to avoid taking biblical positions on moral issues, even if they have political implications. And that's the balance that we've got to find it. It's an easy, but Jesus did it and Paul did it. And I think we can do it too.

Robert, if you could go back into the past, and visit yourself at a younger age, and give yourself some advice, where in your past, would you interact with yourself? And what do you think you would say?

Yeah, I don't know. The problem, John, is that at every stage along the way, I wasn't ready for anything more than what happened next. And God orchestrated that so that I was led step by step. So if I had to go back and tell myself something that would cause me to leap forward, I don't think I would have been ready for that or listen to it. I think I just had to learn everything the hard way step by step. When I disciple, young man or after Got a millennial or a teenager or a college kid who's going with me on a preaching trip or something I've got down on the car with them. They're four or five things that, you know, they don't know what they're getting into when they get in the car with me because I really, I know that I may have 12 hours with them and never again. Yeah, so I want to find out. Number one, where is your heart? Is it fully committed to the Lord Jesus Christ? Where is your head? Are you really pouring into the Scripture and learning that? Where are your habits? Is there really purity there? Where is the holiness you need in your life? And where is the hard work that Jesus wants you to have? I really think that that's the pathway of discipleship. It starts with your heart. You have to be fully surrendered and every way to Christ. Lord you can have everything there is of me no closet or cupboard or cubicle. I'm going to lock up against you. I'm just going to open everything let you have control And then we've got to have the habits that will lead to holiness. And that's Bible study and prayer and the other basic habits of the Christian life that leads to increasing holiness, which isn't going to come all at once, will not fully get there until we get to heaven. But we've got to increasingly try to be people of purity. And that leads to just the hard work of doing whatever it is God calls us to do. You know, we're not here just to be entertained all the time. You know, that's the secular world out there that doesn't have any divine mission. But for those of us who have a divine mission, God has placed us here, then life is a wonderful experience of hard work for the kingdom. And where I would have intercepted myself along the way with that message. I don't know. I think certainly as a young husband, I wish I had known more about you know, like I said, I'm an introvert. I'm not especially Emotionally, it's not always easy for me to be emotionally giving. And I think I would have been a better husband, if I'd known earlier to meet the emotional needs of my wife better. I think there are a lot of things like that, and we learn slowly. But I don't know how I would answer that question. That's, that's all right. That was out of my pay grade.

Well, I appreciate the wisdom that you just shared, though, because we don't have that luxury of going back and speaking to ourselves, but the encouragement that you said, God prepared me for the next thing, and along the way, God prepared you and that's, that's, that's where we are right now.

The Lord leads us step by step. Yeah. Moment by moment, and day by day. Yeah. It's wonderful to finally realize that, you know, the Lord said to Joshua, every step that your foot falls, I'll get that one to you. Yeah. But it was just a step by step process.

Yeah, it's not everything that you said. See, it's everything that where your foot goes. So you gotta physically

Yeah, follow through with that.

Yeah. It's it's really, really interesting to see how God does that. Robin, I appreciate all the wisdom that you've been sharing with me for this last hour and you know, having dinner with you and your lovely wife, Katrina. I like to ask this question a lot as well. What book would you recommend?

For me? there been a few books that have been very impacting to me. But just in general, knowing God by Chad Packer, which came out when I was in college, have you read that? I have it.

I haven't read the whole fabric parts of it.

Yeah. It's a very wonderful book, about the different aspects of coming to know the God that made us who loves us who we won't work with and walk with. And I just have found a great deal of encouragement out of Packers, knowing God NKW Tozer his knowledge of the Holy of course Pilgrim's Progress, I love you CBS the church history of you, CBS and Martyn Lloyd Jones book spiritual depression has been a great help to me and dealing with you know, my fluctuating emotions and years ago, I shouldn't tell you this but Norman Vincent pills book the power of positive thinking and his book on enthusiasm are a tremendous help to me. Now, I think that his theology is very shallow. I don't endorse his theology, but somehow when you read his writing, it lifts your spirits. I love the writings of that's happened with the old North Carolina evangelist and I mentioned already FW Boerum. Right now I'm reading like I said, the Andrew Murray, who was a South African devotional rider, but if they're just as one book, it's hard to beat. Chat Packers now. God. Yeah.

I love what you said about the the wisdom that Ruth Graham gave you. For every new book you read. Read an old one.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, and I've tried to do that. I took that very seriously.

Yeah, I think that's I think that's a big wisdom right there. Yeah. Well, Robert, when does your book the 100 Bible verses that made America

February for Okay, it's available now for pre orders, you know, in the publishing world. Now, John, everything depends on pre orders, right. So I would love for people to go to their favorite book distributor, whoever that is, and pre order it. But it's called 100 Bible verses that made America my subtitle that I fought for was a biblical tour of American history. The one that ended up on the cover says, defining moments that shaped our enduring foundation of faith. Anyway, it'll be available at all bookstores, and I think he'll be fun to read. I really think this will be a fun book for people to read.

So even now, we can order it on Amazon. So literally pre order online, that would be great. I'll make sure I put a link in the show notes so that people can can do that. Thank you,

john, you're the best,

or the best. Thank you. I really appreciate the time that I get to spend with you. While we're recording, and we're not recording as well,

yes. And you do so much for your dinner kill over dead from the supper that I fixed for you.

It was very good. Very good. Thank you. God bless you.

It was so enjoyable to be able to spend that time with Dr. Robert J. Morgan. Even though I'm from Pittsburgh, I never had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Fred Rogers from Mister Rogers Neighborhood. But I imagine that Robert is probably pretty close. And that's one of the highest compliments that I can give someone. I found it interesting that even though he went to a Christian school, he hadn't really surrendered his whole life to Christ until his roommate bill challenged him to take his intellectual understanding of Christ to a life changing revenue. And a heart decision. That just goes to show you that it is always valuable to share Jesus with people, even if they might already know about him in their head. They say that the hardest journey for someone to take is the 18 inches from our head to our hearts. So we want to ask you, is your life yielded to Christ? Or is it just an intellectual understanding? Make sure that today, your heart is completely with Jesus. I love when he talks about the imaginary conversation in heaven.

Well, I think the Lord knew that boy doesn't know how to do anything. I'm just going to have to do it for him.

Sometimes I'm pretty sure that God works like that with me to Dr. Robert Morgan held on to the promise of God founded Romans 828. What are the promises that God has given me that I need to hold on to? I know he's given the promises that we often forget and let them go. Let's make it a point to hold on to God's promises for us. He talked about not wanting his servant to be a one and done message. So he took those manuscripts and repurpose them into articles that led to books. And that led to even more books. Dr. Morgan gave a great definition of success. Success is not arriving at certain statuses and live it simply doing day by day what God wants you to do. You know, that's all success is someone 3916 says, You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I begin to breathe every day was recorded in your book. So success is simply doing what God wants you to do. You know, at the beginning of this year, I started using the full focus planner for my daily goals. And I've been setting daily goals and journaling every day since, well, almost every day, but being purposeful about trying to do what God wants me to do every day has made me much more productive when I'm intentional about it. Michael Hiatt's full focus planner is not an affiliate of along the way, but I will definitely recommend it. If you would like help organizing your days to do what God wants you to do for that day. I enjoyed hearing him talk about his love for the Word of God. It's like his 66 best friends. The Bible is small enough to hold in your hand, large enough to study forever and deep enough to satisfy you for eternity. I like the advice that Ruth Graham gave him for every new book you read, read an old one. I don't know if I can do a one to one ratio, but I definitely need to read some more older books. Dr. Robert J. Morgan is such an encouragement when you spend time with him and when you read his books, I can strongly recommend his books worry less, live more, and always near his next book 100 Bible verses that made America will be released in February of 2020. So keep a lookout for that. Thank you for listening to along the way. If you've enjoyed joining me along my way, please share this with a friend who you think will be encouraged by this podcast. Also, please rate and review along the way on iTunes that will help more people discover along the way. And subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to your podcast. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram and at my website along the way dot media. You can also email me at John along the way at gmail. com. I hope that you've enjoyed this part of my journey and may you realize when Jesus is walking with you along your way