From Addiction to Redemption - Dan Perkins' Journey AlongTheWay Ep 01

Had he miraculously taken the pain away, I wouldn't have learned any lessons and, and I had to feel the pain in order to learn the lesson to know not to go back to that, that that road is one of death, pain and suffering.

Welcome to "Along The Way". I'm John Matarazzo your host and fellow traveler, thank you for joining me on my journey as I try to become more like Jesus every day. I love what I have the opportunity to talk with fascinating people and learn how God has met them along their way. I believe that everyone has a story and we can all learn from their journey. Through my work. As a TV producer, I get to interact with some of the most amazing people making an incredible impact for God's kingdom. In this program. I aim to identify, verify and amplify the lessons that I've learned from others into my life and hopefully you benefit from it too. On this episode of along the way. My journey connects me with Dan Perkins, the North Braddock campus, Pastor of bridge city church in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Dan, it's a pleasure to have you on the program. Thanks so much for giving your time to be with me. Absolutely. Thank you for having me, john, I appreciate it. I'm calling this program along the way. And it's based off of the story of the maze road and I love listening to people's life stories and seeing how, just like on the road to them as how the disciples were walking with Jesus the whole time, but they didn't realize that it was Jesus until much later and they looked back and they said, didn't our hearts burn within us as he was revealing the scriptures to us along the way I want to hear your story, but also what are some of those moments that God has become so, so real to you that you look back and you say, Wow, I can't believe that God was right there with me.

Yeah, I mean, I have. I have a lot of stories like that, you know, you know, my background, my story just in general deals with just knowing God along the way. And so, you know you my background starts when I was nine years old and I was, you know, sexually abused by a neighbor introduced to pornography really, really early age and, you know, that led to some really deep insecurities that I was, you know, spent most of my adult life trying to cover up through the use of drugs and alcohol. My drug use started when I was about 11 years old. I was introduced to crystal meth out in San Diego where I lived at the time and that led to, you know, about 17 years of addiction and so just the fact that I'm standing here or sitting here rather, you know. alive and well speaks to how God just preserve my life through that through that time, even though, you know, I wasn't, you know, acknowledging him or living for him or anything like that. And so, you know that that path took me down to, you know, a very, very dark road for for a very long time. And how did you get started with drugs? What led you to that at the beginning? Yeah, so I was I was hanging out with a friend of mine who had older brothers and their friends and they were at really into drugs. And so, you know, we wanted to be like them, we looked up to them, I needed to find a way to be able to fit in with them and also live within my own skin, you know, and so, my drug use was just a symptom of my insecurities. It's the only way that I ever felt comfortable enough with myself that I could be around other people. You said you needed to do that to feel comfortable enough to live within your own skin. What does that mean? Yeah, so I mean, I, you know, I just, I'd never thought I was good enough. I never thought I was good looking enough. I was smart enough I ever, you know, people never really liked me for who I was. And so I needed a chemical, you know, a mind and mood altering substance. In order to be okay with myself, I was never able to just even sit and be by myself without some some chemical that would alter my state of mind in order to be me. So you saw these older kids doing drugs and when you started, you said, Hey, this actually kind of helps me with what I'm feeling already. Yeah, it gave me confidence, you know, definitely gave me self confidence and allowed me to, you know, just be able to interact with people what I considered on a normal basis even though it was probably really abnormal but it to us it was normal and so it was really the only way I was able to just even be around other people and feel comfortable enough to to open up and just to talk and have conversations.

So. So where did things turn for you? Because you said 17 years of addiction from a time of 11 till 17 for 17 years. That's, that's a good length of your life. Yes. What? What happened? What led you to saying, I'm, this is not the life I want to eat anymore.

Yeah. So eventually, I mean, I got hooked on Xanax. And then I got hooked on oxy cotton, which became too expensive, which eventually led me to, to using heroin and I started using heroin intravenously and so you know, that's a really rough life to live it's a that's a hard life and so I would go through periods where I'd have drugs and I'd be okay and then do you know intense times of sickness when I when I wouldn't have anything but eventually what got me to see there was another way to live was when I was introduced to a girl named Amy, who I actually used to party with and do drugs with before, like, right out of high school. And she got saved. She got clean. And I ran into her about 10 years later after she had already gotten cleaned. And she invited me out to lunch. And, you know, I immediately saw that there was something different about her that that wasn't the same girl that that I partied with. And so we started meeting for lunch and just started asking questions and things like that. And so that piqued my curiosity. I wasn't ready right then and there, but, you know, she actually started inviting me to Bible studies. And, you know, I started opening my Bible and reading my Bible on my own, even though I'm still getting high. I was I was reading my Bible and so you know, that started you know, God was nudging me in that direction.

Now, you told me earlier that at one point you were actually homeless because of your addiction.

Yes. Yeah.

Tell us a little bit about that. And what were you feeling?

Oh, it. So I mean, I was feeling terrible about myself. Really. I mean, you know, living in Pittsburgh in your car during winter was that's not even enough money to buy gas to start it to heat get any heat is a rough existence and so I know there was a period I lived in. I lived in a pizza shop that I was working at. I lived in the office

did they know that you were living in the office?

The workers did, but you know, the higher ups didn't. And so it was it was a game of cat and mouse.

Oh my gosh. So the addiction was in that much control of your life until you met this girl.

you know

You know, she walked with me through my addiction. Eventually it came out that I was an addict and we were we were dating already and it came out that I was an addict and so she walked me through that whole process and you know that was that's a messy process you know it's easy for us to sit back you know now and talk about it but when you're in the middle of it and you know like I'm sure some of your listeners would be when you're in the middle of it it's a it's a very messy process I mean there's a lot of lies a lot of manipulation you know her codependency everything is it's it's a hard process it's a messy process but you know with God's grace the end result can can be amazing.

Yeah we'll come back to that in a second. But you something you said made me made me wonder you said you realize that you were an addict, you realize that you were an addict. And so before that, what did you look at yourself as just a user?

Yeah, just somebody who would like to have a good time. I mean, for the longest time and until probably maybe 22 23 when I started getting addicted to xannex. I never really thought I had an issue. Just wanted to have a good time. I just wanted to fit in everybody. I hung out with the same exact things I did. So to me, that was just normal life. That's just the way we lived. We lived, you know, every day. And so there was really nothing, you know, out of the ordinary about our lives, because that's what we were surrounded by this what we lived in.

Yeah. So, you know, I'm not somebody that's ever dabbled with drugs or anything like that. But I know addiction is something that everybody deals with it you mentioned codependency was an issue that that Amy really dealt with, you know, I've got my own issues and things that maybe I'm addicted to something that I'm not sure maybe I've considered myself a user but what are some of those ways that you can say, am I really addicted about this? And if so, then how do I get help?

I mean, the bet the biggest thing is, is if you try to stop and you can I mean you look at pornograpyand just the statistics on that. And, you know, it's, it's, you know, high even within the church. And so, you know, if you keep going back to it and back to it and you keep feeling shame and guilt, shame and guilt, but yet you still keep going back to it. That's a pretty big sign that that you have a problem also does it does help bad does it interrupt and disrupt your life? You know, is it causing issues in your normal life, that your everyday life if it's causing issues, either with a spouse or your parents, your job or you know, your finances, if it's interrupting and disrupting those things, then it's a pretty good sign that you probably have a problem, you know, that goes with anything food, you know, drugs, alcohol, you know, pornography, sex, anything like that. So if it's any sort of thing that you can't break on your own, there's a pretty good chance that you have a problem.

That's it. That's really helpful to be able to look at it that way. I'll try to provide some in the show notes. I'll try to provide some ways that I'll get from you to help people understand more about whether they might be addicted and also how to get help. But Dan, how did you get help with this it with your addictions?

I mean, you know, I there was a lot of people praying for me, like I said, I was going to Bible studies I was, you know, kind of, involved with, some spiritual things, but basically it was eventually I realized that I had to get help when Amy cut me out of her life when she finally had enough and said, you know what this is this is enough. I can't deal with this anymore. This is your beyond anything that I can handle. You know, you you've you've crossed the line and I just can't go down that road with you any further. And so when that happened, I realized you know what this is this is, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, too. So that's when I decided to check myself in the rehab.

So that was, that was pretty serious that you you needed, you knew that you needed help outside of what you could do.

Yeah, I had tried rehab one time before I had even gone gone to a halfway house. But, you know, I checked myself out. And, you know, I stayed clean for probably about a week and then went right back to it. And it got worse than it had ever been. And that's when Amy finally was like, I can't do this. No more. So I had tried to go down this road before, but I don't know when the second time when I checked myself in the rehab. What Amy actually drove me there. She said, You know, I remember when I was getting out of the car. She said, Don't ever call me again. And but I knew going into it that something about this was different. Like something about this time I knew was going to just be a changing point in my life. And when I checked myself in that second time, and I got a better is when I finally surrendered my life to God. And you know, when I went in there, I refused all medications that refused all drugs, you know, to help ease the pain. The only thing I did take was anti seizure medications. Because coming off, a Xanax can give you grandma seizures. And grandma is gr. A and M. Al Graham believed that

Not "grandmother's"

Yeah, no, no, no, no. But you know, it's very serious coming off of drugs like that benzodiazepines and alcohol and things like that. And I do recommend always doing that under the medical supervision of people. Because, you know, there's some serious consequences and side effects that can happen when you just suddenly stopped taking medication. And so, you know, I refused all drugs. And I was in so much pain and so much suffering. But I knew I had to go through it. And I knew I could get through it. Because I was surrendering my life to Jesus. It was a hard road to take. But I finally got to a place where I was ready to surrender.

So where were you when you finally felt like you surrendered to God?

I was ah, So I surrendered my life on the floor of a rehabilitation facility, you know, and just, I just got down, I said, I'm done. I said, if you don't do this God, then you know, I'm done. I'm, I'm going to probably go back out here, use drugs and die. And so, you know, my life is yours. And so you need to you need to take over because I can't do this anymore.

So you realized that with your drug use that death was a very likely probability.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's, it's around you all the time. And, you know, it's a very, it's a fact of life. And so I knew that, you know, I can very easily go out and use drugs and, you know, overdose that's just, you know, this just gamble you take every time you use.

Wow, so, but the most important thing you did was you surrendered it, can you just explain a little bit more about surrender, because you oftentimes when people try to go into something, they try to do it themselves, they go into rehab, or they want to make changes on the life and they try to do it by their own strength. That's where like New Year's resolutions really fall flat on their face by mid January, most of the time, what is the difference between surrender for you then just tenaciousness?

Well, so I mean, most people, the confusion becomes for people is that surrendering means that I don't put in forth any effort, there's still effort and surrender. And so and so really, what I was doing was surrendering my will, and saying, Okay, I'm not going to live by my own will. But God, I'm, I know what your will is, I know, it's not for me to use drugs. So all my effort is going to go into pouring myself into accomplishing your will, which it for me right now is to stay clean, and to get through this. And so surrendering was just saying, you know what, I'm not going to live my way anymore. God, I'm going to live your way. But that's still takes effort, there's still effort and surrendering and putting effort into, you know, living for God, and, you know, not doing that. So, that's, that's where I see most people getting hung up is they think, well, when I surrender, then I don't have to do anything. Well, no, that's not true.

Yes, surender is an active, active thing to do.

Absolutely. It's not passive. It's definitely not passive. You know, I see Jesus in the garden of Gethsemene when he's praying, not my will, but your will be done that wasn't passive, that he was actions that he still needed to take in order to accomplish God's will.

Wow, that's so good. That's really insightful. So yeah, take me take me back to your surrendering your life to Christ on that floor. And your your life has changed. So like when, what is what did God speak to you? Like, what did you feel at that moment,

I felt very, I felt a lot of pain, I felt a lot of suffering. I was extremely sick. I made a lot of people nervous. I've made a lot of my counselors nervous because they looked at me and they said, you need to take some medication. And I refused. And they just said, you really scaring us. Because, you know, I was just, you know, 17 years of hardcore drug abuse takes a toll on your mind, that takes a toll on your body. And I, you know, I knew that God could take that away from me if you wanted to, but I knew he kind of didn't want me to, I know, excuse me, I knew he didn't want to. I know, I knew he didn't want to take away my pain and suffering, he actually wanted me to go through it. Because had he had he just miraculously changed me, you know what I mean? Or, you know, taking the pain away, I wouldn't have learned any lessons in that. And I had to feel the pain in order to learn the lesson to know not to go back to that, that that road is one of death and pain and suffering.

So God speaking to you in that moment, was kind of not necessarily like an audible thing. But you just knew that God wanted you to go through something so that God wanted you to go through this journey

I experienced God in my pain and suffering in a way that I'd never could have. Had he taken it all away, I realized that I had to be totally reliant on him for everything.

Wow.

And so it was in that that I experienced God on such a deep and intimate level that it did radically change me, even in the midst of my pain, even in the midst of suffering, and being so anxious and so scared, and all those things, it drove me deeper into His presence. Then had he just taken that all away,

wow, that's as dynamic. Yeah, sometimes God lets us go through things so that we're stronger.

Amen. I, you know, I, I, I experienced him in a way that, you know, maybe few people have, you know, a lot of people will have probably experienced them that way more, more than maybe some light on but, you know, I experienced him and such a way that it really has still carried with me, you know, 10 years later. I mean, it really shaped the dynamic of my relationship with Jesus in such a way that it's never really changed, because God was very real to me. In those moments. He was just very real, and a way that I think he wouldn't have been for me, have you taken that all the way.

Well, I want to talk about your relationship with Jesus a little, but you really submitted your life to Jesus on the floor of a rehab center, but you're not in that place anymore. Praise the Lord.

Amen.

So how did Jesus reveal to you, your purpose?

is, so very early on, I was praying before I even knew that God spoke and, you know, all those what a word was or, you know, all those things. Before I had even that basic understanding, I was praying face down on the floor, and I was asking God, what do you want from me? What do you want from my life? What do you want me to do? And I heard him very clearly say, "Preach!", which to, you know, an addict, just getting clean? Who's so nervous and anxious, you know, he can't even have a conversation with a stranger. The thought of me getting on a stage and preaching to people was absolutely ludicrous. I mean, it was, it was just so it's just like, okay, you just kind of laugh at your laugh at yourself at that point, and think, like, okay, that maybe that wasn't God, but I knew it was. And that was the weird thing. And so I kind of just put that, you know, on the back burner for a while, you know, put that in the back of my head was like, okay, you know, preach out what, what does that even mean? And so, um, but that was the first time I heard him spoke. And it's only until, you know, couple years ago, that really, that word started to come to fruition, and it started to come to life. And I, you know, I can look back on my life, and I can see how God, you know, very systematically was training me to get to that point.

what are some of the steps that well, let's look at the first step, what was the first practical step that God had allowed you to take?

Yeah, one thing was, was first of all, hooking me up with the church that allowed me to, to just serve and and, you know, in a great capacity, and so we hopped in a kids connection, which is our kids ministry,

how long were you clean at this time?

probably couple years. I mean, a couple years clean, I was a part of the Celebrate Recovery. And so I was leading an open share group in that which is our small group. So I was I was leading in that and I was

What is Celebrate Recovery for people that might not understand?

so Celebrate Recovery is a Christ centered recovery program. It's a 12 step program, just like any other 12 step program, really based on the eight recovery principles which are the Beatitudes of Jesus Christ. And you know, we're like any other 12 step program, except that we say our one and only higher power is the Lord Jesus Christ. And we do say that recovery is possible that you're no longer identified by your hurt your habit, or hang up your your identity is found in Jesus Christ. And and we believe that in Jesus Christ, recovery is promised. That if you, you know, if you put your faith and your trust in Jesus Christ, He has promised to recovery. And so that is, you know, a very special thing. I think, for a lot of people to come in and hear the that, you know, in Christ. It's all promises that the promises are, yes and Amen. In Christ.

Amen. So I'm, I've been to a couple of the Celebrate Recovery meetings here. I i've always appreciated the way that people introduce themselves. Could you just kind of explain a little bit about that?

Yeah, so the way I would always introduce myself as I'm a great believer in Jesus Christ, who struggled with drug addiction, and it's the past tense, it's past tense, because that's not my struggle right now. I'm, you know what I mean? That that's not who I am. You know what I mean? I no longer let my addiction define who I am, I let Jesus Christ do that. And that's my identity is found as a son.

That's so powerful. That's something that I know that I need to remember, remind myself and remember, on a regular basis, that I am first a son of God, who struggles with pride, who struggles with eating too much, who struggles with being lazy, or, you know, all these other things that we deal with. It's great to know that God is the one that we find our identity in through Jesus.

He is he's the one we find our identity and he's the one we find our purpose. He's the one where we find our freedom. It's all found in the person of Jesus Christ.

Amen. So back to what you're saying before I interrupted you to talk to put a shameless plug in for Celebrate Recovery. But let's actually let's continue this shameless plug. How does he get involved with Celebrate Recovery?

Yeah, so I mean, you could go on the on the website, CelebrateRecovery.com, you can find a meeting listed in your community. We are all throughout the 50 states. And so I'm also the the state rep for Celebrate Recovery here in the Pittsburgh area for I think about five counties in the Pittsburgh area. And we also have one here at our local church here at Bridge City Church.

Very cool. Well, speaking of speaking of church, you said, You jumped in you in Amy and Amy, have you eventually get married? Yeah,

eventually. Yeah, we did get married. After I had a year of sobriety, she agreed to marry me, which was, you know, just a very joyful occasion. It was, you know, amazing. That's the one person, Amy's the one person that I really know. Well, her, my parents that knew me when I was an addict and know me now. You know, a lot of people in the church and everything like that. They know, they know me, as, you know, clean, a believer, you know, honest, you know, Matt, full of character, and integrity. And, you know, so she has really seen the transformation of God unfold.

That's so cool.

But yeah, we can became members here, bridge city church, which at the time was Word and Worship church, they asked us to join the kids ministry. And so we hopped in, and I suddenly I found myself teaching kids, which, you know, is great preparation. At the time, I didn't know what was going on, but looking back at it's absolutely great preparation, because you're taking these complex subjects, you know, like, Who is Jesus? like, what, you know, what is sin? who is God? you know, all these complex subjects, and you have to make it understandable for for a 10 year old. And so, you know, I was taking all these these ideas and breaking them down in such a way that I could explain them to a 10 year old, which is such great training ground to becoming a preacher.

So you had to, you had to know that material a lot better.

Oh, absolutely. That just even happened to verbalize it. You know, and being able to articulate it, and to be able to stand up in front of people and be able to speak in front of people. And then, you know, as I was doing that, then all of a sudden, I started teaching at Celebrate Recovery, started teaching the recovery steps in the recovery principles. And so, you know, I had a platform there. And so, you know, looking back over my life, I could see how he would just, you know, very systematically was putting me in different positions in order to get me to a place where, you know, I am now where I'm a pastor, I preach, you know, you know, almost every Sunday and, and so, you know, he, when he called me to be a preacher, he meant it, yeah, whether I thought it was ridiculous or not,

What was the most difficult step that you had to take into becoming a pastor?

I mean, the most difficult, so, you know, when I got clean, and, you know, when I was married, I went back to school, I was working full time I went to school full time. So, I finished my bachelor's degree in, in business. And so, you know, I worked my way up and the corporate ladder, you know, there was stream favor of God, that was all my life, you know, I attribute to nothing else, but the favor of God. So, I had a really, you know, high paying position, I was on track, you know, to, you know, be a manager, executive, all these all these different things. And so, we had this picture and vision for our our life that wasn't being a pastor.

That was your own picture.

That was our own vision. That was our own picture. That's what you know, that's just what we knew. That's what we thought we were working towards,

You where you are happy serving in the church. Kids Ministry. Celebrate Recovery.

Absolutely. I thought when it when I took over Celebrate Recovery, it took over the ministry and Celebrate Recovery. I thought that was my calling. I thought that was my purpose. I thought I would be content doing this the rest of my life, you know, but, you know, working in, in the corporate world. And so when we started to hear the call, and, you know, other people started approaching me and saying, you know, what, I think, you know, you're called to be a pastor, you know, there was some difficult financial decisions that we make, and just even decisions about our life, that's a completely different, you know, it's a 180 turn from what we thought we wanted for our lives. And so that was probably the hardest decision was just actually making the decision to be a pastor and leaving everything that we thought our life was going to be, and making that sacrifice.

So are you glad that you've done it?

Absolutely, I would have no we would both Amy and myself wouldn't have it any other way. I mean, there's just something about being in the will of God being in, you know, fulfilling God's call in your life and that you find such a joy and such a peace in it. Even when it's hard knowing that you're fulfilling God's call? This is just the most amazing feeling in the world.

I've got a question on here that I want to ask you. If you could talk to yourself in the past, what version of yourself Would you talk to? And what would you tell yourself?

Yeah, I probably would go back before, you know, when I was about 10 years old, and I would warn him the dangerous that he's getting himself into, you know, I would probably tell them that you know what, you know what, God is enough to give you the confidence that you need, and stop trying to stop trying to fulfill yourself with with chemicals. I mean, you know, I did, I'd probably smack them a little bit to knock it off. But, you know, I would definitely tell them like, Hey, listen, like there's a different life, there's a different way you can live. There's another, there's another road, you can take one that leaves to eternal life.

That's good. That's good. I mean, I'm going to guess that that was I was going to guess that that was where you would where you would take yourself and say, wake up little Dan, wake up!

Yeah. Doing some, some hard talking to, yeah, shaken.

You know, for myself, how do you suggest that, you know, you've had some detours in your life, you've had some bumps and bruises and I'm holes in the road along along your journey. But like, what would what advice would you give to me about avoiding those detours in life?

The same thing, I would tell anybody, which is getting the word.

What was that again?

Get into the word get into the Word of God. I mean, before before I even got clean, before I even knew what I was doing. I was in the Word of God. And I was reading the Word of God. And then the Word of God was getting in me. And then it started producing faith in me, even before I knew what that stuff was. And so I haven't changed that. And so, you know, if I really want to avoid the detours in my life, I got to be in my word, I got to be praying, and I got to be connected to Jesus. Because, you know, when I'm really following him, and I'm living according to His word, and I'm putting the biblical principles into my everyday life. I avoid all those details. Because he orders my steps, I can be confident when I'm in His Word. And I'm doing everything that he's asking me to do that I'm on the right path. Even though sometimes God's way it looks like a detour, he's a master orchestrator. I mean, if I look at my life, I could see how he was orchestrating everything and conducting everything in order to bring me to the place I am now.

So you know, reading the Bible and getting into God's word is very important. What's life verse that you have? Or what's the what's the passage of scripture that has really impacted your life that comes out to you right away?

Yeah, I mean, it's Titus, it's found in Titus, Titus three, four. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior appeared towards men, not by works of righteousness, which we have done, but according to His mercy, he saved us to the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ, our Savior. I mean, that, to me, is just beautiful, just absolutely beautiful, because it wasn't really based on who I was, it's based on who he is,

it's that surrender. Again,

It is! and it's just like, you know, Jesus Christ is the mercy of God. And he appeared towards all men, in order to cause us to be born again, with the renewing and a regeneration to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. I mean, that verse, those verses are just so rich with with everything that I experienced in Christ, which is just mercy, renewal, regeneration, an outpouring of His Holy Spirit and love based on how good he is, and not how good I was it because if, if it would have been based on me, and how I was living my life, I would have been condemned to hell.

what is your key motivation to keep going when life is difficult?

So, I mean, there's a couple of different things that I really, you know, I coach myself, I preach to myself a lot. And so, you know, Amy is a good person that I talked to, and we just talked about, we just remind ourselves that this is what God has called us to do. And we have just decided in our life that we're going to do everything that God has asked us to do, even when it gets difficult. And so we encourage one another, we, we push one another, we, we challenge one another. But we know that one day we're going to have to stand before God and give an account of our life,

and we never want to get there and him have him say, you know, I asked you to do this. Why didn't you do it?

Because we won't have an answer

We'll have a bunch of excuses but not an answer.

Yeah, I don't even think looking into the face of Jesus will be able to get the excuses out because we'll just know right then in there. I mean, it's not that it's not that, you know, he's going to condemn us, he's not going to take away you know, where he's not going to take away our salvation. But you know what, I just couldn't see having that conversation. Like, I asked you to do something. Why didn't you do it?

and me saying, because I didn't feel like it, or it was too difficult was just never an acceptable answer. Wow.

Yeah, that's, that's true. It's really not.

Because that was more comfortable, you know, sitting on my couch watching TV.

Yeah. So Dan, how do you apply God's revelation to your daily life,

I let it change and transform me, I let that I let the revelation that God has given me through His Word, renew my mind. And so that means even in all the conversations I'm having, and all the interactions I'm having with people, that means that means I'm now you know, a city on a hill and I let life Christ's light shine the my life to everybody I encounter, at least that's what I try to do. That's good. You know what I mean? I allow it to make every day count. So every day to me as a mission, whether that's in my family, with my wife, or with my kids, or with the church that God has called me to lead, or whether that's just going to the grocery store?

Yeah, that that made a lot of sense there, Dan. What book would you recommend that would impact my life?

There's so many. There's so many. So right now I'm reading two books, ones, devotional ones, more leadership wise. So I'm reading the incarnation of God. And it just is really deep about the person of Christ and who he is and how our relationship to the Father is found through him. And so it's really it's a really beautiful book that allows me to experience Christ on a deeper level. And so that that's one book that is really impacting me currently at the moment. And then also the master plan of evangelism, which is just a phenomenal book, it's, it's an oldie but goodie, I think, you know, the principles stand the test of time because it's biblical. And so really just, you know, living a life on purpose and mission and making disciples. It's about making disciples. I mean, how, you know, there, there's some things you know, I don't think any tradition, any background, any denomination, you know, can't argue. And that's one is that we're called to make disciples.

Yeah, that's true.

You know, so any, any way that I can, you know, any book I can get on discipleship, and how to make disciples, I usually pick up and run with the Lost Art of Discipleship. It's another oldie but goodie. But, you know, once again, it's it's timeless principles because they're all biblical principles.

Dan, thank you so much for being willing to spend some time with me into invest into my life and to our listeners life and thank you for allowing God to mold you to be more like him along the way that he has for you.

And then well, thank you so much for having me, John. It's been a pleasure.

I really enjoyed my conversation with Pastor Dan Perkins. I'm glad that Jesus met him along the way, and drastically changed his life's direction. When he talks about the way that he experienced God through the pain of his recovery. I was really challenged because I don't like pain. Whenever I'm in pain. I want God to take it away. The thing that Dan said that really challenged me is that God can use the pain for his purpose I was thinking about it as this is kind of a know you turns allowed sign don't go back to that he talked about identifying addiction as if you try to stop and you can't. That's really plain and simple. If you try to stop doing something and you can't you're probably addicted. Addictions don't have to be just illegal drugs or alcohol. It could be something as simple as your daily cup of coffee. That can be very addicting. I try to break free from coffee a few times a year just to make sure that I'm not becoming dependent on it just to make it through my day. Sometimes those coffee headaches are really good reminder that I'm not in as much control as I thought I was. The only thing that I want to be dependent on is my relationship with Jesus. Dan talks about Celebrate Recovery and if you'd like to find more information about that you can go to celebrate recovery.com. If you'd like more information about the church that Dan is a campus pastor at. Please visit BridgeCityPGH.com the books that Dan recommended where the incarnation of God master plan of evangelism and the Lost Art of discipleship I'll be providing links for those in the show notes as well. Thank you for joining me along the way. If you've enjoyed this program, please rate and subscribe to this podcast and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at along the way dot media. I hope you've enjoyed this part of the journey and may you realize when Jesus is walking with you along your way.