From Failure to The Chosen - Dallas Jenkins’ Journey AlongTheWay 33

Then that night at four o'clock in the morning, I was on Facebook. And I was working on a memo. I was doing a 10 page memo analyzing everything that went wrong, everything that was my fault, everything that was my partner's fault. And I was doing what I typically did, which was, you know, figuring out where the blame was to lie and a lot of it was with me. And this message popped up on my Facebook page four in the morning from someone I've never even met just a Facebook friend I talked to maybe once a year, didn't even say hello, all it said was, remember, your job is not to feed the 5000 it's only to provide the loaves and fish.

Welcome to along the way. I'm John Matarazzo. Your host and fellow traveler. Thank you for joining me along my way is I try to become more like Jesus every day. I love talking with fascinating people and learning how God has met them along their way. A few years ago, a friend of mine shared a YouTube video with me that a friend of his had made for Christmas Eve service. As I watched that video, my heart connected with the characters of the shepherd I was hooked. And I wanted to see more. And this along the way conversation, I have the privilege of connecting with Dallas Jenkins, the creator and director of that short film. And now the number one crowdfunded media project of all time, the chosen. This remarkable series masterfully tells the story of Jesus through the eyes of those who knew him. my conversation with Dallas inspired me and challenged my faith. I know yours will be challenged as well. You are really going to enjoy my conversation with Dallas. I'll get to that in just a moment. But I want to make sure that you know that you can hear all of my episodes, even the ones that you might have missed by visiting my website along the way dot media, or simply subscribing to along the way in your favorite podcast app. You can find me on social media, Facebook and Instagram. You can also email me at John along the way at gmail. com. In my show notes, there's an email subscriber list that you can join if you want to be notified of new episodes and any other special announcements please because joining my email list. I look forward to hearing from you. And now here's my along the way conversation with Dallas Jenkins, Dallas Jenkins, thank you so much for allowing me to join you along your way. You're the director of the chosen, which is a tremendous film project, about the life of Christ from the vantage point of the people around him. I'm looking forward to talking with you about that, but also how God has led you along your way to where you're at today.

Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it.

So Dallas, this is not your first film project. You've done a couple other films leading up to this. Could you tell me a little bit about how you got started in film and how you felt God's call in that?

Yeah, so that's about 20 years ago is when I started with my very first feature film, but before that, I had been working at a company that got the rights to the left behind series. My dad is the author of the left behind books. And there was a company that got the film rights inside That company for a couple years, and then eventually started my own thing with my dad. So plus 20 years, I've been making movies and short films with my own company. And about 10 years ago, maybe eight or nine years ago, I actually went and worked at a church in these Chicago suburbs, they were interested in making movies. So my love for the church that I've always had, and my love for film, which those two things had never really been able to be combined. Because back in the in the olden days, a church Hollywood never mixed. And now, churches are much more positive about the idea of supporting film. And this church actually wanted to make films and finance. So in the last, you know, eight or nine years up until two years ago, I was making films and short films with that church. That has been pretty much my career. My life for last 20 years is making movies and short films. Several have been theatrical release several of them Gone to DVD. I've had a film on the Hallmark Channel. So I've worked with a lot of the big production companies and distribution companies in Hollywood, which is only interesting because now I'm, I'm doing everything, I guess myself with my partners are doing shows and talk about later. But we're doing this multi season series about the life of Christ completely outside the system.

So a couple years ago, a mutual friend of ours sent me a link and said, You've got to check out this video that my friend Dallas has put together, and it was called the shepherd. And it's a really the would that be the pilot for the chosen?

Well, it's an interesting question, because when I made the shepherd, it was not at all intended to be a pilot for anything. It was actually coming off with my biggest career failure. You know, we can talk about that in a minute as well. Yeah. That's to answer your question about the shepherd. It was a short film I made for my Church's Christmas Eve service. Oh, that was all it was intended to be. So I was coming off a big career failure. I didn't know what my future was poured myself into this short film about the birth of Christ, the perspective of the shepherd's. It was a project, an idea that I had been passionate about for about a year, but it just been on the sidelines. And I thought, well, let's do that. And the church, you know, really wanted to do it. So it was going to be our Christmas Eve service. And our mutual friend who saw it started passing it around to some people just because he loved it. And I was messing around with a few people to that ended up being the catalyst for the idea, Angel, which is a streaming service that saw the short film, and loved my idea of a multi season show, which never been done before about the last it's always just been movies or mini series. They love the idea. And they said this short film could be the means to raise crowdfunding for this show. crowdfunding, which I thought was a ridiculous idea and would never work. But this short film ended up kind of going viral. And it ended up raising over $10 million from over 20,000 people from around the world or a multi season shovel the life of Christ so right

and it's it's the number one largest crowdfunded Film media project project, which is remarkable.

Yes, very much.

Yeah. Especially because, you know, in Christian media, we're not often thought about as a foreigner for something like that. And the other ones that were previously the highest grossing crowdfunded projects were things like Veronica Mars, and I forget what the other one was for

Science Theater 3000. These were all projects that had big fan bases already right off of already existing properties that had been successful. We were starting from scratch. I was coming off my biggest career failure. So we had nothing. We had a lot going against us.

So this is a real miracle that we're kind of seeing unfold. 100% Yeah. So you've mentioned a couple times about You said you had a biggest career failure before this. Can we talk about that a little bit? Absolutely.

So a few years ago, when I was working at my church, I had done a another short film for our churches Christmas Eve service. This was called the ride. And again, this was just a intended to be for our church. And long story short, I got in the hands of one of the biggest producers in Hollywood. Cover the name of Jason Blom, who is known for horror films, like get out and us and you know sinister and insidious and all this stuff. He's really monumentally successful horror films. And he was interested in faith based films just because he thought there was a good chance for a potential financial return. And they got funding from WWE. The wrestling company, okay was also interested because they have a filmmaking arm and they were interested in this as well. So a horror film company, a wrestling company in a church in Elgin Illinois, bind to do this movie called the resurrection of Gavin stone, which was a project that I had been developing a little bit, they loved the idea, love the script, and they finance the film, it was a great opportunity. And when we finished the film, which was shot at my church got we control the content, even though it was financed from these big production companies in Hollywood. Wow. And so when the movie was finished, and they tested it with audiences We're looking at the potential it was the highest testing film that they've done. So they were really optimistic they want to do multiple films with me for years. So I was a director with a very bright future. Again, long story short, with all this excitement and all these other companies brought into the picture like Walden media and universal movie opened gene, January of 2017. Within a couple hours, it was very clear it was a bomb. It just was a failure. It was the numbers were half of what their lowest projections were. So within a couple hours, I went from a director with a very bright future to a director with no future. And while I was with my wife at home, dealing with this pain, and wondering what, why God put us through all this, because we knew God had been behind this project from beginning because so many miracles that happened to make it happen. So we're just confused. And God brought my wife to the story of the feeding of the 5000. And she opened up our Bible and we read the story again, and we noticed some things we never noticed before even though we heard the story dozens of times. And it was that Jesus, when you read the story was clearly responsible for the problem that needed the miracle. He was the one who had been talking for a long time and caused the crowd to get so hungry. And the disciples came to him and said, We need to send these people home because they're hungry. And he said, Oh, no, they're so hungry. If we send them home now will they'll faint along the way. And this is a part of the story, I'd never really remembered much. So he knew what the problem was. In fact, he caused the problem, to the point where the only thing that was possible to fix this was a miracle. And then the other interesting thing about it that we hadn't really noticed was how much he had everyone else do. When with this miracle. He had the disciples go find the food. He had the disciples bringing the food. Once he multiplied it, he had them distribute the food. He had them do everything that they didn't need him for. That the only thing left was what only he could do. So we weren't sure what that meant. We thought maybe there was gonna be a miraculous turnaround at the box office or something like that. But but we didn't know what God was trying to tell us. And then that night at four o'clock in the morning, I was on Facebook. And I was working on a memo. I was doing a 10 page memo analyzing everything that went wrong, everything that was my fault, everything that was her fault. And I was doing what I typically did, which was, you know, figuring out where the blame was, was to lie and a lot of it was with me. And this message popped up on my Facebook page, before in the morning from someone I've never even met just a Facebook friend. I talked to maybe once a year, didn't even say hello, all it said was, remember, your job is not to feed the 5000 it's only to provide the loaves and fish. Hmm.

I honestly wondered if maybe like my computer had been recording what we'd been discussing. Yeah, really. I was like, how in the world is this person know that? So I just said, first of all, why did you just text me at four in the morning and he said, Well, I'm in Romania. I'm on a different time zone. I'm doing some middle Here, and I said, Why don't you just text me that me said, I don't know, God just told me to tell you that. And my life, I think changed at that point. Because not only was very clear to me that God was real, and God was in this and God was part of this journey, and possibly even responsible for it teach me a key lesson. But it was a life lesson that I needed, because I'm someone who controls my destiny often. And I'm typically pretty good at making decisions. And I'm typically pretty good at solving problems and having vision. And God was making it as clear as possible. I do not need that from you. I need you to just provide the best Loaves and Fishes you can let me handle the multiplying or not. And so for the first time in my career, I was perfectly willing to never make another film. And I was just willing to do whatever I needed to do each day to make sure that my Loaves and Fishes were healthy, and that if they were multiplied, it would be multiplied. Well, and so that's what caused me to be open minded to this idea of crowdfunding. I was like a loaves and fishes, man, it's not my job to worry about feeding the 5000. So I was open minded to some of these ideas, and I was willing to pour myself into a short form for my church. And that's what ultimately led to, you know, the highest crowdfunded project of all time. And, you know, not completed season one, about life of Christ from the perspective of the shepherd's, and a dream Dream project that I never could have conceived. Until I learned this lesson. Wow. That's,

that's remarkable. I love how God uses what is our failures as our setbacks as a setup?

Yeah. And I also think some Christians would disagree with this. I think that a lot of our setbacks and a lot of our failures are actually God breathed. And I think that, you know, you hear this often these cliches God's not the author of chaos, so God doesn't cause problems. He only is there with you when you have them and I'm not sure I believe that I I don't know why when problems are usually 95% of the time to read. The people turn to Christ. And the reason that people get deeper in their walk with God, I don't know why it wouldn't be wouldn't make sense for God to it to cause people to get hungry enough to where they need to rely on him for a miracle.

Yeah, and he definitely has a way of turning all these things around for his good if we let him. He's talked about God speaking through your wife about the loaves and fishes story. How is God speaking to you?

Well, I think, you know, in some ways, it's clear that he's spoken to me through others, he spoken to me through my wife, he spoke to me through my Facebook friend, as I'm writing the show. There have been many I could come up with probably in the next two minute, 20 occasions where I was writing, and I wasn't sure where the scene was going, and whether I prayed or whether I wasn't even praying, but God clearly put something into my head and in my heart, and I was like, Oh, this is going to be great. And I would respond with tears or I would respond with laughter as if it was someone else was sharing with me. And I said to myself, Oh, wow, this is really good. This is going to work really well, people are going to really respond to this. Like I'm responding to it. And it's happened so many times we're on Facebook, or oh my gosh, that moment was so powerful and I cried when I saw it, or oh my gosh, that moment made me laugh so hard and made me realize how special Jesus is or whatever it is. And it's all these moments. I can't think of a moment that someone has spotlighted that I don't remember the moment when God gave it to me. And I responded in the same way that they did. Oh, wow. But I don't hear God's voice audibly. Like, you know, some people may say, it's not like I look at the mirror, and there's something written in the steam or anything like that. I just listened and I remain open. And things come to me and I think it's more often than not clearly come from the Lord. But I don't always assume that it's from the Lord either. Like, you know, I usually wait for the fruit. know whether that was from the Lord or from my own brain because I'm capable of pretty decent ideas too, but I'm also capable of some pretty bad ones. Yeah. So I usually try to just kind of wait it out a little bit. But I've learned to just listen a lot better and to go with instinct, which I ascribe most of it to the Lord.

That's great. So Dallas, you went from having this, what you call your failure, which is really a setback for a setup, which then led into you doing this Shepherd short film for your church, and then it grows into being the chosen. Tell me about that journey. Because that's one thing to say, Okay, I'm going to make this decision to make these, these more films about the life of Christ. But there's a lot that goes into that. I mean, people that, you know, if you're watching a film, you just think, Oh, you know, somebody, they just pull these people together and they just make it happen. No, there's a lot of production that goes into this. There's a lot of work. How has God led you along the way leading into where we're at now where there's four episodes out, and there's more coming?

Yeah, it's been extremely difficult and challenging. I mean, every step. I remember the first time that we decided because the money was coming in slower crowd Funding wise and was initially expected. And as soon as we reached the 4 million mark, we decided to go ahead and make the first four episodes. And we thought that maybe making those episodes would generate more enthusiasm. And it would also just make sure that when we were done with those, that they were ready to release as soon as, as we were. And so we just started working on him. And then we, you know, again, we've got enough money to hire a crew and but you also realize this is a 2000 year old story. And so finding the location and getting all the wardrobe and sets and all that I mean, it's very expensive and very time consuming and very stressful. I think the actors to play the some of the most important and iconic characters in the history of the world, much less scripture, right. I mean, all that's challenging and all this very weighty and very pressure packed and stressful. And, you know, I went on a trip to Israel last year because I wanted to really, for the first time, you know, see where Jesus walked and do research and get more in tune with both the history and the spirituality of this story and So, but then when we ended up getting to December and January to finish off the financing problem season one that also came together all at once at the last minute just in time for us to do the next four episodes. Just enough, it was like the exact amount that we needed. We're on what we call the manna program, which is where each day, we just take what God gives us. And God said to the Israelites, if you store up any extra manna for future days, I'm going to make it rock because I want you and God wanted them dependent on him and he wants us dependent on him. So we have not gotten anything extra. But what we absolutely need just to get done one thing at a time. That's been the challenge of it. But my goodness, if you watch the videos, we put out on our Facebook page and our YouTube channel on an almost, you know, but several times a week. We've pulled back the curtain we show people there's literally over 100 videos from the set and from post production and from the writing process that show you how this is done because we wanted Our followers and our fans and our partners to be part of the process and to see God working, we want them to know me better, because I want them to be able to trust this story. And, and so it's a long answer to your question. But the point is, it's happened so many times where God has come through at the exact moment, and we need it. But I don't even get worried anymore, even though it's extremely, extremely stressful. And I feel a lot of pressure to get this right, because this is the greatest story ever told, and the most important story ever told. But I just feel like God has prepared me for this by humbling me. And I just feel like I'm doing a good job of listening to be quite frank.

That's great. And I love the all the videos that you've been putting out on Facebook and YouTube. I'm not sure in the show notes. I put a link to some of those so that people can see some of the behind the scenes things. I mean, this set that you've made, the detail is incredible. One of the videos you talked about sanding the underside of the the drawer. Yeah, the underside of the drawer. Yeah,

yeah, it's a phrase we I heard from an automation company once where they were talking about their attention to detail and they said, yeah, we Sam the underside of the drone. And an animation. It's just I think it's just a metaphor for we pay attention to every detail even the things you don't see. Yeah. And so I tried to adopt that as much as possible. That's really cool.

And it really, whenever you watch the episodes, it's remarkable. It's not like a huge, huge set compared to some of the things like the passion that you have done. tremendous work with it, and it feels huge. It feels like the world is really there. You've got a few of these disciples that like Matthew, you've portrayed him in a way that I've never thought of him before. Could you explain a little bit about his character for people that haven't seen it yet? And what your inspiration was for writing him in that way?

Yeah. So my daughter is autistic, she's high functioning autistic. There's a high amount of autism and Asperger's mental retardation in my family, actually, my family and I've done a lot of volunteer work with special needs kids. So I'm very familiar with the Asperger's autism spectrum. When we were putting together the characters for the show and choosing which ones were the most interesting for a show, because that's the whole point of the multi season show is the characters. Right? Right. You know, any was any show that you love, there's usually a group of five or six characters, and you follow them over the course of multiple seasons. And so we had to pick which ones from the gospels were the most interesting. And Matthew was one of them because he was so hated. Mass collectors were hated by the Jews for betraying them and disrespected by the Romans For being Jewish. He thought, well, that's interesting. Well, then we dug into that more, we thought, wouldn't it be interesting to make Matthew on the Asperger spectrum? Because if you think about it, he's clearly a numbers guy. He was a tax collector. He's clearly a facts guy. He the first chapter of his book is just about genealogy. And if you know anything about Asperger's, people or autism, people that have a lot of those types of focuses, you know, lists and numbers and memorizing things and they get really obsessive about it. Then, of course, autism and Asperger's, people don't care much about being a social outcast. In fact, they sometimes are socially awkward, don't relate to people very well. Matthew didn't seem to care that he wasn't accepted because he was a tax collector. All that stuff added up to thinking, let's make a post put him on the Asperger's spectrum, going to be the first Bible character in history to ever be portrayed that way. Yeah, it is not unrealistic. It's not like we just decided to make it, you know, some weird thing just for the sake of it. We have had so much feedback. I mean, the actor who plays Matthew named Paris, who's done a beautiful, beautiful job in the first four episodes in this in the next four episodes, five to eight, which we're editing now. It's remarkable, and it's a beautiful, beautiful growth in his character. But he's talked about how moving it's been to hear people react. I mean, you've got parents of children with autism or Asperger's, who are commenting through tears about how cool it is for their kids to have someone to relate to and adults as well. Because the character of Matthew is probably, you know, 20 years older, so So it's just been really cool to see. And I think I think what it speaks to, is not just unique to Matthew, but to the other characters in the show, is it if you've seen all four episodes, I think 90, you know, 8% of the people who've seen them have all said the same thing, which is, it feels so human, it feels so raw, so relatable. I've never seen anything like this before, from a Bible project. Because I think when you add those little nuances, and those characterizations and make it so that each character has an actual personality, right, and there's something to identify with, and typically I had a friend of mine say, which was, I think, really true. Most Jesus projects have three disciples, there's Peter, there's Judas, and then the other 10 disciples, they all look the same, they all sound the same. They're all the same, and they don't really have distinct personalities, but we've given distinct personalities to Matthew assignment to Andrew, to James and john, the brothers, the Sons of Thunder, and that's one of the things that we're really exploring. And then as a result of that, you know, this comes to The ultimate goal of the show, when you see Jesus through the eyes of those who actually met him, you can be changed and impacted in the same way that they were. And that's the goal of the show. And I think Matthew is a key part of that. Absolutely.

So you said you took inspiration from your daughter with Matthew, which character do you find yourself? Most akin to?

But it's interesting. I think there's a bit of all of them. You know, my wife says she identifies with Simon Peter because she's, she's tempestuous and passionate and is just as prone to changing the world with a great move as she has to doing something she regrets, you know, an hour later. I'm a little bit more measured. I'm pretty even keeled. So there's bits of Andrew who's more of a thinker. Nick Demas is one of our main characters because he's been a believer his whole life. So he's as soon as he starts seeing certain things like we explore what happens to Nicodemus before john chapter three, the most famous right after we introduce you to who Nicodemus was before that point, what would make a Ferris he be willing to believe The Messiah, when Pharisees, most of them were so resistant to Jesus as the Messiah, right? Number two, we know that Nicodemus didn't actually give up his religious life to follow Jesus. In fact, he kind of maintained his role in status as a double agent on later to be explore the why of that I can relate to that I can relate to being a lifelong believer, but also trying to be open minded to the startling and the unexpected, which is what Nick edema says in the second half of season one. So you know, I think there's bits and pieces of all of it. I think, the one I relate to least Of course, there's you know, Mary Magdalene is one of the key characters and she's demon possessed, so I can't really relate that. However, this is what I can relate to. I can relate to Nick a Demas, who in our show is called to go help her in the red quarter this this part of town that's very poverty stricken and very scandalous. He's not comfortable there. And I remember there was a time as an adult, my wife and I became more comfortable With the least of these, as the Bible says, were previously would kind of lived in this bubble, when we started to realize the person on the corner, the person who's drug addicted or whatever is not the bad guy. Maybe they have a heart to maybe that's who God calls you to be to reach out to. And so, while I can't identify with Mary Magdalene, I can identify with the desire to help. And the shock that comes from realizing that someone else's love problems are worse than you may have thought. And you don't necessarily have an answer for him other than Jesus. Yeah,

I love that nickname is involved in that story more than I ever would picture. You portrayed that so beautifully and how he's, you know, after she has an encounter with Jesus nickname is that kind of is part of the catalyst that brings into his own search. And like I just remember the first time I watched that, I just got chills whenever she just responds to him. Could you just say that

well depends on whether you want to consider it something she's saying or something she they are saying but Nicodemus is trying to cast out her demons and and you just hear this voice that says, We are not afraid of you. You have no power here teacher, and that freaks Nicodemus out and he outright says to his students and to his wife, only God Himself could heal her. So you can imagine what Nicodemus thinks when he encounters her later, and she's been healed, right? So if only God Himself could have healed her, and she meets someone who actually healed her and it wasn't Nicodemus. Well, now he's got to put his money where his mouth is. He's drawn a line in the sand. And so he's got to find out who did this, because he saw firsthand that it couldn't have been anyone but God. Yeah. And that's

so beautifully portrayed. So I want to just let people know that they can watch the chosen a couple different ways. But one of the big ways that we're talking about right now that just as pretty recent, as in You know, mid September when we're recording this is you have an app, which is really cool. Could you tell me about that before we dive back into the making of the chosen?

Yeah. So we are doing this outside the system. As I've mentioned, people always ask us, where can i watch this? That's question number one. So we point them to our website, the chosen.tv www dot the chosen.tv. Fact it became a little jingle I made up one day and stuck in people's heads was just www dot the chosen.tv. And I apologize if you're listening, because that'll be in your head tonight, I promise. So people would go there, and we gave them the opportunity to watch episode one for free. And then they would watch episode one. And the idea would be that then they would then want to purchase all four episodes. And that's happened to a good degree. And we've spent very little money even on marketing. It's just been kind of this testing the waters and figuring out kind of learning as we go. Well, another question people always ask is, oh, well, why don't you put this on Netflix? So why don't you put this on TV as though it's our decision? First of all, we don't you know, Netflix didn't finance this project. Hmm. So Second of all, it's not even our decision if we just wanted to pop something up on Netflix, they have to want it they have to pay. Right,

right.

But you know, this was financed by our investors. And the idea was to we partnered with a streaming service called vid Angel, and they're famous for filtering. They allow you to watch Netflix shows amazon prime shows and cut out anything that's offensive, which is a great service but they wanted to get into original programming as well similar to how Netflix did with House of card or Hulu did with Handmaid's Tale or whatever? Well, we found that people just had a hard time wrapping their heads around it, they had a hard time finding it. And so we decided, you know what, why don't we just made an app that you can download to your phone for free and what if we just made the first four episodes free. Now it's not free and every single format like if you want to watch it on Roku, or if you want a DVD for that, but if you want to watch it on your phone, or if you want to cast it to your TV, through Chromecast or through your Apple TV, you can do it. And what we found when we would do screenings of all four episodes, like we would show off Episode either in a public screening or on a live stream online sales would go through the roof after the screening. People love the episode so much that they want to own it, they want to give it away. Yeah, they want to get it for other people. And so we just decided, let's just do something crazy and just give these episodes away. You know, if we just did that forever, we couldn't do any future episodes or seasons. I mean, people need to support the show in some way, whether it's buying DVDs or not. But loaves and fishes, you know, it's just to kind of see, you know, make good decisions with what we've got. And so, so we basically just decided, so now you can go to the app store, or Google Play, or to WWW dot the chosen.tv. And you can download the app to your phone right then and there. And you can be watching the show within minutes and it's totally free. And including the shepherd, the short film that we did about the birth of Christ. So we just started that a couple days ago at the time of this recording. By the time people are listening it a little bit out for a little bit. But while you're on the app, you can watch the episode, you can go to our gift store and purchase stuff if you want. But it's very easy, very free. And we feel like this is a disruptive way to do things. It just makes it easier for people to watch it. And when you're trying to share it with your friend, you don't have to send them through all these steps. And of course, if they don't want to spend money for it, they don't have to, they can just watch all four episodes right now.

And people are finding Jesus through this, which is really cool.

That's I mean, that's, you know, that's obviously the ultimate goal is, you know, like I said, to introduce Jesus to the eyes of those who actually met him.

Yeah, that's, that's awesome. So in some of these scenes that you've had to film, I know one of the big things that we've done a couple of YouTube videos about the whole thing of the the the boat and the the fishing was kind of a big deal. Yeah. Could you tell me about that?

Yeah. So you know, I don't want to give away too many spoilers, but we haven't hid the fact that there's a One of our biggest scenes in the show is the miracle of the fish when Jesus calls Peter to follow him. And it's a very long story that I won't get into all of it, there's a video on our Facebook page and on our YouTube page, you can watch that kind of tells it better than I would right now. But, but basically, this went similar to how the whole project is gone, which is that about four or five days before we were set to shoot the scene of a miracle of fish of hundreds of fish being dumped into a boat. We didn't have a boat finished. We didn't have our Lake efficiently lined up, we had no fish. All the fish that we had hoped to get had fallen through. The boat was still being made. And the lake had flooded. And so you know, we were just hoping and praying that the lake would go to a more reasonable level. And again, long story short, you know, we talked to our visual effects guys and and they tried to convince me that they could make all these fish look real and look good and had to trust them because there was no other option. Sure. So we shot the scene without fish. The actors just faked it. And we put together all these contraptions to make it doable for the visual effects guys, and became the greatest scene I've think I've ever been a part of. It's the scene that people talk about the most. But the main thing about it, and this is what I'm really passionate about, is that the way that the scene was done, until we've released these videos, no one talked about the special effects. No one said something. And that's something very important to me. And I think you'll see this, I'm guessing, just because this has been true of everybody, you haven't told me this. And I'm guessing that when you watch the shepherd, about the birth of Christ, the scene when the angels appear to the shepherd's, we did something very interesting in that, you know, we shot it in a way that that was, I think, interesting and better, and also didn't give away the fact that I was shooting it on my friend's farm in Elgin, Illinois with a very limited budget. And I've always wanted to shoot these miracle sequences in a way that doesn't draw attention to the effect, right, because I think people can watch Jesus projects and Bible projects. In a very voyeuristic way, like number one, okay, is this true to the Bible? Number two? Is this what I picture number three? Oh, that's interesting. I wonder how they did that. I wonder how they make out? Sure. I wonder how they accomplished this miracle shot the supernatural scene. And I don't want people thinking about that. I think that's one of the reasons why Jesus movies other than the passion, tend to be a little bit emotionally distant. Because you're kind of watching it just as an observer. And as a Bible reader, seeing what they how they did it, as opposed to actually watching it how you normally watch most shows or movies. So miracle, the fish sequence is all about the emotion of the moment, and the spiritual impact that it has and the people watching it. Spiritual impact that it has on Simon Peter. So I love the fact that we it was by far our most challenging technical scene, but it's been by far the most emotionally rewarding scene and the most spiritually learning scene. And that's what's really cool about that whole thing.

That's awesome. Thanks for sharing about that. And now again, put links so that people can see the video of that is that One of the downfalls of podcasting is that it's just audio. So I can't just insert the video here. So yeah, just scroll down. And you can you can watch that in the show notes here. But Dallas, one of the questions I love asking people whenever I get the chance to do these interviews is, if you could go back in time and visit yourself at a younger age and a different season of life. What advice would you give yourself? And what's happening in your life at that point that you would want to interject right there?

Well, I'm guessing you could probably actually guess what that would be. The phrase that was told to me, it's not your job to feed the 5000 it's only job to provide the loaves and fish. You know, I think there's about 975 moments in my life where I wish that I would have gone back in time to tell me that. But I you know, I think I would have wanted to know that when I first started my career or when I got married. When I was raising children. And I you know, it's a life lesson that I've been giving and speaking engagements around the country. And it's been responded to and I say this with all humans. Because I, I'm just telling the story of what God did for me, but just telling my story getting up on stage and just being wrong and saying, I came out of failure and I'm not here to give you any advice other than what I heard from someone else. And people respond immensely. I mean, there's, I have people telling me regularly, that your talk changed my life for your Facebook post about this changed my life or, you know, I got standing ovations when I finished telling the story. Again, not i'm not saying that with any arrogance. It's just like, I think people are responding to the notion of life changed by failure, and God being present in it. And so that's easily that's there's that's the easy, easy answer to your question. not your job to feed the 5000 just provide the fish.

So you go back to that moment, just to give yourself that advice again.

Yeah, I mean, I think you know, I think if I could go back to my you know, who I was when I was in college and say that, it'd be great and I probably would have saved me a lot of heartache. But, you know, I might not have had as much impact as it did when I was 43.

Yeah, I find it interesting that, you know, I asked that question. And it'd be nice to go back to that we don't have to go through some of these situations in our life or some of those setbacks. But really who we are today wouldn't be who we are today if we didn't have that journey that we're on. Exactly.

So I don't I don't I don't play those. I mean, this is nothing against your question, because I think it's a good Yeah, I'm just saying I don't play those games anymore. of, of all I wish I would have or what I would have done differently. I mean, I am truly on the loaves and fishes. Plus the man of plan, right? I'm just, you know, every day I'm, you know, when things come in my life now that are stressful or whatever. My body probably feels in ways that I don't know, but like, I'm just really like, Yeah, man, it's something you know, I'm just doing my part. gotta figure this out. not worried about it.

Yeah. So what advice would you give to somebody that is dealing with some of these roadblocks or some of these hiccups Along the way, because you're you're to a point now where you've had experience with that, and you're expressing that you're trusting in God in a deeper way through those situations now, and it's a little bit easier. How would you explain that and help somebody that doesn't have that experience?

Well, I mean, again, I think there's nothing specific other than what I've been saying is really more about, like, make sure that you don't hear this incorrectly. Your job is still to provide loaves and fish. You're not supposed to just sit on the sidelines and wait for God to do everything. God could have magically waved his hand and everyone in the crowd would have had fish and loaves magically appear in their laps. He could have done that. When he raised Lazarus from the dead, he could have just had the stone rolled away. You know, through his voice, and Lazarus, his grave clothes could have come off automatically. When Jesus waved his hand again. You had the disciples wrong. A stone away. You had people on rap, Lazarus his grave clothes, he had them do everything they didn't need him for. So you should still make sure that your loaves and fish are as healthy as they can be, you should still study you should still prepare. You should still devote, you know your life to your at least your career life to being excellent at your craft. But the results of it are not your responsibility.

That's really good. That's really good. And you said that a couple different ways in this, but I just appreciate you sharing that. Again, we've kind of talked about this all along the way. But where have you seen Jesus walking along the path with you in life that you didn't realize it in the moment but you can. It's easier to see now?

Well, I would say that the biggest thing again, it's related to this lesson, which is just that how many of these some of my failures were God ordained? You know, he sometimes just every time something fails, you, you either blame yourself or you blame someone else and there's certainly things that I can blame myself for. But I oftentimes look back and go, you know what God, I think, orchestrated that. So I would learn something. You know, for example, I think that God even did a really kind thing, by giving me the desires of my heart that weren't necessarily good desires. I had a desire to make a Nollywood and to work with some of the biggest Bruce's in Hollywood. And so he gave that to me. But he gave it to me so that I wouldn't care about it anymore. Like I no longer care about that at all. I used to watch the Oscars, imagining myself getting an Academy Award and working with some of these people, and now I couldn't care less. I think it's because God gave me a taste of it. He was kind enough to do that so that I wouldn't spend the rest of my life wondering. And then he said, That's not for you. The first words Jesus speaks in the chosen in Episode One, very first thing we hear from Jesus is the phrase that's not for you. I think that's a great metaphor for our lines is how often we get some things that aren't even necessarily bad. But Jesus comes in and says that's not for you. Wow, wow.

So Dallas, I like to ask people about their life versus what's a verse that you have, you've been able to put an anchor in

a verse that has really stuck out to me over the last several years that I think has become a bit of a life verse for me, is Psalm 34. Five, those who look to him are radiant, and their faces shall never be ashamed. You know, I think that has a lot of different meanings. And when it came to me two years ago, it didn't it wasn't related to my career. It wasn't related to all this Loaves and Fishes stuff. I think, I think it has a lot to do with sin. You know, I think especially for us guys who struggle with sexual sin. This concept of I mean, think about this again, those who look to him are radiant. How many times are you sending and radiant at the same time? Not too often as the answer. How many you know, their faces shall never be ashamed. You know, saying that when you look to Him, you're not your face is not ashamed. A great reminder. And then I think it also applies to you know, I think it also has been able to apply to my career as well. is, you know, when I'm when I have no regrets in my career when I know that I'm actually looking to him. Hmm. So the failure of Gavin stone, for example, the resurrection of Gavin stone, which is a movie I'm very proud of the movie that people who saw loved and actually, you know, has gotten great response. It just bombed the box office. I don't I my face isn't ashamed about it. I'm radiant about it. I'm ready to out the chosen because I'm looking to him as I do it. So Psalm 34 five, I think has been a life verse.

That's really cool. You can see how that's really been an anchor for you. So a couple more questions for you. I do want to talk about what's coming up next for the chosen and what can people look forward to in Episode 567 and eight,

so episodes five through eight are obviously a pickup for more episode four left off, but this is where, you know the people who have now encountered Jesus. Now we're getting to see what the encounters look like. So, you know we, in our devotional book, we also did a devotional book called The Chosen 40 days with Jesus. It's kind of a companion piece to the show, even though it could also stand on its own. Or we just take you deeper into these characters and deeper into the stories of the Gospels. And we talk in the devotional book about the before. every encounter with Jesus hasn't before. Were who you were before Jesus entered into your life. There's the before then there's the encounter, and then there's the after. And these first four episodes are a lot about the before. And these next four episodes episodes five to rate are about the encounter and the after. So we can look at someone like Mary Magdalene who's been redeemed by Jesus. We're going to explore her after look at someone like Simon who's at the end of Episode Four meets Jesus, we're going to explore his encounter. And then there's still some characters like Matthew who haven't met him yet and we're still doing there. before. So, season one is about the gathering of most of Jesus's followers. And that's what we're focused on. And so there's the cool thing about episodes five through eight is there's some, some pretty big miracles coming up, that are iconic in the Gospels and that are really fun. And people are going to be really excited to see especially with, and I'll do humility, the way that we treat them. The similar to how we do these other great moments in the Bible, like with the birth of Christ and, and the miracle the fish, I think the way that we approach it, the angle that we take will make you feel like you're seeing the story for the first time even though you've heard it

so many times. And I can definitely agree with that. The episodes that I've seen, definitely feel like this is brand new, even though I know the stories that I've read so many times in the Bible, you really have a gift to make them and to portray them in a way that is brand new. And I thank you for that.

Yeah, well thank you for saying that Johnny Erickson Tada who's a well known speaker and writer. She said to me Thank you for telling the old old story in an impossibly fresh way. And that was one of the greatest compliments I've received. Because that's what we're trying to do. I mean, we've heard the stories, but how can you do it where it feels like it's for the first time?

That's awesome. Dallas, what is a book that has changed your life? Well, it's

interesting. It's not a Christian book. I mean, the Bible's an obvious one. Sure, but I assume you listeners already got that one.

I hope so.

Yeah, the book that has, I think made a big difference for me. And I, I tell everybody about it. And everyone who's read it has come back to me saying, Oh, my gosh, that was life altering. It's a book called The Power of Habit. And it's a very, you know, popular book, it's, you know, you typically find it in the business community or in the self community, but it's all about the habits that make us or break us. And I've always found that, yes, when I'm counseling someone because I've done counseling, and when you're giving life coaching to someone or advice to someone, they're always scripture verses that help and prayer is a vital part of it. But at some point, you've Got to, again, make sure that your loaves and fish are healthy. And that I think comes with a book like this where this book allows you to actually pull off and execute some of the scriptural principles even though the book isn't scriptural. So the Power of Habit is a book that's changed me quite a bit, and has changed a lot of people than ever recommended to

thank you for that. So Dallas, how can we be praying for you?

There's obviously the project to me, we want the project to succeed and to get out to many as many people as possible. But I think also for me, personally, you know, it is very stressful. It's very stressful on myself and my family. I've got four kids and my wife were, you know, doing a show like this takes an immense amount of time, takes money. It's not a well paying job, you know, as of now, and the weight that I feel of trying to tell the stories of God and His son and his people is a significant weight and it doesn't come without critics and it doesn't come without challenges. I'm ready to face But I don't want to get comfortable. And I don't want to. I also don't want to get cocky. As things succeed and start to ever get past this humble realization that I have that it has enough, it has very little to do with me. I think that's where the prayer comes in is just just for family for peace, and you know that we're able to bear the weight of all all definitely,

definitely keep you in prayer for that. And I'm looking forward to seeing where God takes the chosen and takes you Next, how many episodes you have planned out?

Well, we we don't have any written yet. We're probably going to start writing Season Two soon. And then we're not sure exactly how we're going to get Season Two done. Or if it's going to get done. We hope it will. Sure certainly looks like it will but we don't want to assume anything. But the goal is to use you know, seven, eight seasons of this. Awesome I want I really want to take our time and explore these characters explore these stories and get it right. Awesome.

Well, Dallas, thank you so much for spending some time with me. I really appreciate You letting me see your along the way journey?

Absolutely and will have to come back sometime soon.

I'm so grateful that Dallas made time in his busy editing schedule to talk with me about how God has met him along his way. God took Dallas from his lowest point professionally and gave him the vision to create the chosen which is now the largest crowd funded media project of all time. Dallas is Hollywood career looked promising and things seemed as if they were about to take off. Unfortunately, his film, the resurrection of Gavin stone bombed in the box office, but failure is not the end. Jesus can raise Lazarus from the dead and he can bring about the resurrection of Dallas Jenkins. I love how God spoke to him through his wife. She shared the story of the miracle of the loaves and fishes with Dallas, and they saw it through new eyes. So he knew what the problem was. In fact, he caused the problem. To the point where the only thing that was possible to fix this was a miracle. We all need miracles. We can't be passive about it. Dallas shared what he learned about the disciples role in that miracle.

Your job is still to provide loaves and fish. You're not supposed to just sit on the sidelines and wait for God to do everything. God could have magically waved his hand and everyone in the crowd would have had fish and loaves magically appear in their laps, he could have done that. He had them do everything they didn't need him for. So you should still make sure that your loaves and fish are as healthy as they can be. You should still study you should still prepare. You should still devote your career, at least your career life to being excellent at your craft. But the results with it are not your responsibility.

That is so encouraging. We need to be faithful to provide healthy fish, but leave the results up to God. He is faithful to work the miracle, especially when we don't see how it could work out. Jesus had the disciples do everything they didn't need him for. They had a part in the miracle and soda we when we've done all that we can that's when we just Stand and let him perform the miracle. That makes me ask myself and YouTube. What are we trusting God for? And what do we need to do about it? I personally struggle with some anxiety regarding trust and provision. For 2003 to 2011. I was a missionary with youth with a mission. Every day I had to trust God, I had no paycheck, I had to raise my own support for myself and for my ministry expenses. It was not an easy time financially, and I had no other option, but to trust God, he always provided and I had faith that if God said it, he will provide for it and it will happen. Well, for the last eight years, I have been working and receiving a regular paycheck. And I thank God for that. But it's easy to take my eyes off of God as my provider and look to my employer as my provider. That gets me into trouble every time. You see God is my provider and he is using my workplace to get his provision to me. When I don't trust in God like I should, and I don't put him in his proper place, it leads directly to anxiety. Right now I have some big needs coming my way. Very soon, I'm going to be needing a new car, a new computer to continue making this podcast, as well as many other larger upcoming expenses as well. I need to remind myself that I am not my own provider. I know that God is my provider if he knows exactly what I need, and when I need it. So I need to trust him to provide for everything but make sure that my fishes are healthy and my loaves aren't stale and moldy. God wants us dependent on him. My prayer for that is God help me trust you so that I can give you my best loaves and fishes and trust you to perform the miracle. He will make a big miracle with our little faith.

We're on what we call the manna program, which is where each day we just take what God gives us and God said to the Israelites, if you store up any extra manna for future days, I'm going to make it rough. And God wanted them dependent on him, and he wants us dependent on him. So we have not gotten anything extra. But what we absolutely need just to get done one thing at a time,

regardless of how much money is in our bank account, God wants us dependent on him. Our life can actually be changed for the better by failure and learning how God was walking with us through it, hopefully not having to go through that same way next time. Dallas said that he thinks God can orchestrate failure to teach us, he brought up some really interesting points on that topic. God always has a way of turning things around for His glory and our best. He knows uniquely what we need and how to call us individually to his purposes. When you watch the chosen, you'll see that the disciples are just like us. I love how Dallas made sure that there are more than three disciples. It's not just Peter, Judas and the other 10 disciples, each one of them were different. And Jesus called them uniquely just like you He knows what's best for us. And he knows what's not beneficial for us.

That's not for you. I think that's a great metaphor for our lives is how often we get some things that aren't even necessarily bad. But Jesus comes in and says, That's not for you.

What are we doing? seeking that Jesus is saying, that's not for you about even good things are sometimes not God's best for us. Dallas dreamed about winning an Academy Award. But now he doesn't care not because he gave up but because he gave that desire to God and God is fulfilling him beyond what an empty statue can fill. Now he is passionate about this God breathed series and I'm sure that he has a heavenly Academy Award waiting for him one day, a long time from now, when he will hear well done my good and faithful servant. Or maybe in Dallas's case, it will be more along the lines of and cut. That's a wrap. But until then, Dallas is God's chosen man to get his message to the world in an impossibly fresh way. For more Information about Dallas Jenkins and the chosen check out

www.chosen.tv. That's www.chosen.tv

The app is really great. And I strongly suggest you downloading it today. Dallas has already started writing Season Two of the chosen. I also suggest that you follow the chosen on Facebook and on YouTube. They do a tremendous job of updating us on the latest developments and what's going on. Also, you can help support the chosen in many ways. So check out www dot the chosen.tv to see how I'll be providing links in the show notes.

When you see Jesus through the eyes of those who actually met him, you can be changed and impacted in the same way that they were.

And if you want to be changed and impacted through meeting Jesus, like the people in the chosen, you need to meet Jesus to it simply starts by asking Him into your life to become the forgiveness of your past and the leader of your future. I'm available to discuss this more with you if you would like just reach out to me on social media or my email John along the way@gmail.com. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for listening to along the way. If you've enjoyed joining me along my way, please share this episode with a friend who you think will be encouraged by this podcast. Also, please rate and review along the way on iTunes that helps more people discover along the way and subscribe to along the way, wherever you listen to your podcast. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram and on my website along the way dot media. I hope you've enjoyed this part of my journey and may you realize when Jesus is walking with you along your way