Heal the Wound but Leave the Scar - Leigh Cappillino’s Journey AlongTheWay 26

Father God, thank you that you heal the wound. But would you leave the scar so that I can be reminded of what you did for me? As we think about when the disciples, including Thomas, when the disciples saw the scars, can you imagine how relieved they were? This is real. This is real. That is Christ. I mean, I know if I was in the upper room, I'd be like, Oh, thank God, I saw that. Because my humanity still detours itself from truth and what we know to be fact you know, God's word. That song has meant so much to me and to our audience, because a lot of people walk around with scars, some of them because of choices they've made like me, some of them because of something that was done to them. But in the process of that scar, that means there was healing, and we have to remember that God gives us the power to be healed.

Welcome to along the way. I'm john better. So your host and fellow traveler, thank you for joining me along my way as I try to become more like Jesus every day. I love talking with fascinating people and learning how God has set them along their way. For this along the way conversation, I have the privilege of talking with Luke hapa Leto from point of grace. Lee was the worship leader with the women of faith conferences before she was asked to join with point of grace. And in this episode, she shares how Jesus has healed her wounds, but has left the scars. Her path has been full of ups and downs, twists and turns, but through mentorship, she has stayed grounded, and she has kept her eyes fixed on Jesus. If you want to know how scars can become beautiful reminders of God's grace, then you need to hear this conversation. I'll get to that conversation in just a moment. But I want to make sure that you know that you can hear all of my episodes, even the ones that you've missed by visiting my website along the way, dot media, or simply subscribing to along the way and your favorite podcast app. I'm also on Facebook and Instagram, you can keep in touch by emailing me at John along the way@gmail.com. My social links and web address are in the show notes. I look forward to hearing from you. And now here is my along the way conversation with Lee Catalina. Catalina thank you so much for joining me along my way, by letting me join you along your way that some people maybe they won't won't recognize your name, but they will probably recognize your voice, especially when you're singing because you're one of the members of point of grace. I think Andrew Greer for connecting me with a lot of fun. We've had a lot of fun already before I hit record. So Lee, thank you for allowing me to come into your home and to hear your story.

Well, thank you for wanting me to tell my story.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, let's let's jump right into that. Sure. Could you tell me how you got into into music and how God led you to actually work where you are

today? Sure. Well, when I, my mother, I grew up in a Christian home and my mother was the piano player at our little small church. And so she, her influence of and passion for music came at a very early age. I am the baby of three sisters, all three of us are just little stair steps. And so we would have fit Sunday night sings growing up. And so if a special artist couldn't come in, my mother would throw us girls up there. So and I love singing. And I remember my sisters, you know, going back to mom, after we saying they would say Mommy, I don't want to do any more least too loud. She sings too loud. But later on in my early teens, I remember a very specific moment along the way. And my mother just saying to me coming home from church, she just said, You need to know you have a special gift. And it was a very simple, you know, it's just a simple comment. But it landed, God nurtured it. And I fell in love with choir, I fell in love with studying music in college. And from college, I was in a group that you know, traveled from church to church every weekend. And we had a live band. And so growing up, I fell in love with a group called truth. And they were out of Mobile, Alabama, and they literally got in a bus and traveled around the United States. And so I saw them in concert. And I said to my mother who came to the concert with me as a mom, that's what I want to do. And believe it or not, within three years after that conversation, not only was I not only did an audition for the group, three weeks before I graduated college, I made the group and sang my very first concert in that very same location. I saw them for the very first time. And so you know, you talk about connecting dots and looking back and seeing God's hand on those dots. It was very you couldn't miss it. You know, it was one of those things where if you're going to miss this, then what what chance do I have to really help you understand that I have a purpose for you and a plan for you. And it's it's it's very hopeful. So I got in this group, I met my husband four months later, he asked me to marry him. And we got married. And my family was like, I don't know him. Who is this stranger? But you know, this, this a little to the side? You know, I know there's a lot of parents out there that worry about their kids and worry about who they date and who they end up marrying. I knew it was a God thing because it was beyond. How do I explain it? It's It was almost an outer body situation. It was one of those things where when Dana asked me to marry him, I, I I just got out of the way and said yes. And it wasn't that I didn't love him, oh, I loved him, I was very attracted to him. And let's be honest, we need to be attracted to the one we're going to marry was very attracted to him. And we have so many things in common. So we long story short, we got married, and we are celebrating this March 28 anniversary. But all that to say to parents, and my parents were very, very concerned. But every story is is doesn't end up as beautiful as mine, maybe but just to say my parents prayed from the very beginning and their prayers were heard and, and I'm thankful that I'm thankful that they trusted in me enough that my personal time with the Lord.

You know, he guided me and he directed me and directed diagnostics, Dana and I have known each other only as we've always worked together. And we've we've only known working together. And so when we left the group truth and moved to Nashville, Tennessee, he was with a wonderful artist named Twyla Paris. And so he was out on the road with her. And I was doing you know, some things with another girl and, you know, just trying to, you know, pay the bills. And so a few few years after that point of grace had seen Dana play guitar and truth. And Wilson I love, they all look details. I'd love for him to be our guitar player. And long story short, they asked him about two years into their startup of their career. So Dana's been playing guitar for pointing grace, we're celebrating our 2620, almost towards the 27th year of being together. So he's been with him 20, almost 25 years, years of that 2026 27. So while I was doing my own thing, one of the original members of the group pointed grace retired. And they asked me to join their family. And so I joined their family 16 years ago. And again, just going back to the pulse of your show along the way. And nothing was out of sync with what we're God's steps were you know, it went from singing with truth. It went, it went from it went from singing with my sisters, we were a trio. It went from being on a bus, learning other people's cultures and appreciating their differences and being okay with if they were raised Catholic, or if they were raised Pentecostal, it was it was learning to adapt to people's differences. And the importance of we, I don't know how we are, or I'm not sure how we're teaching that in the home right now. Because where we live, it's a it's a pretty, it's pretty big bubble. And if we're not careful, we're going to miss those opportunities to really help our kids expand outside of just what they're used to. And oftentimes, if we don't expand ourselves to what we are used to, we get very judgmental. And so all that to say those years with truth. Set the set the precedence of those years with women of faith where you talked about Patsy Claremont earlier, just got to sit under these most the most godly women, and they would tell you all day long, they were never perfect, but they were real. And they were they showed me how to bring Jesus into all of my relationships into all of my all the avenues of being a daughter, being a friend, being a mom being a wife. And I would you know, you talk about the number seven house, it was the was the year of completion. For me it was the year of beyond completion, I carry those women and their, their their studies and my heart every single day. And you

were with them. You were with the women of faith. Yeah, seven years,

I was with women of faith. I was their worship leader for seven years. And you know, you there's, people ask us in interviews, they'll say, you know, is there anything, anything you'd like to do again, or do over or do and I'd like to live those seven years again, they were. They were rich, they were so rich with just filling my whale with things that, you know, when things got tough, I could just draw from it. And again, they were godly influences. You know, they, they lived through cancer, they lived through divorce, they lived through dementia, they lived through being scared to death of their kid was ever going to come up home. I mean, real stories and just seeing their faithfulness was, you know, there's it was priceless, is priceless. So now 16 years later, and I think the girls asked me and night is a toy. September 11 happened, my daughter turned one to 2003 October 2003. I was getting ready to go on a retreat with my mentor. Because my husband and I decided or I had decided in my in my prayer closet that it was time for me to turn in my resignation with women faith because we traveled 37 weekends a year and I had a little girl yeah. And we would leave on a Thursday and return on a Sunday. So the weeks got shorter and, and my little girl was one at the time. And so she she loved it. I mean, you talk about learning social cues and social skills and adapting, you know, she learned she learned it and she had all these wonderful aunts that just pampered her. It was wonderful. But I remember telling my wonderful friend Mary Graham, who is the president of women of faith, who you talk about a godly influence. She just said to me as graciously as, as Christ I can imagine would say and she just said, you know, God knew this before we did. And He always makes the crooked way straight. And he's full circle, and we will miss you. But you go with our blessing and our support. And so before I even knew pointer Grace was happening. I you know, I told her that it was time for me to go and within 24 hours of making it verbal to my husband and then him supporting me. 24 hours later, Shelly called, and the girl another girl grace, she called and said, What are you doing tonight? And I said, Well, I'm getting ready to go on a retreat with my mentor. I'm gonna go and pray for a few days. And she goes, Okay, well, is it okay, if me and Denise come over? And you know, I'm clueless. I don't know what? Because they're good friends of mine. You know,

we have great friends works. Your husband works

for them. And honestly, I thought they were going to ask me about a friend of mine that produced a record for me. And they were going to ask me, Hey, is he a good producer Lola. So they knock on my door and still completely oblivious with big huge ice cream sundaes in their hands. And if you know, Sheila and Denise it always has to do with food. And I invited them in. And so Dana begins to scoot up the stairs to give us some time alone. And Shelley goes, No, no. Where are you going? Dinah we need you here too. And so they sit in my living room and they get their cell phone out. And they call Heather who was the other girl in the group. And say said we would love for you to join our family. And I was like, Lord, because here's, here's what your audience needs to know, in the privacy of my prayer closet, and the Lord and I talked for a very long time. And one of the things that you talked about that burning, one of the things that I knew was burning within me was that I did not want to be a solo artist. That was not my that it was never my desire. I always wanted to be a part of a group a part of a team, because I love the sum of the parts. And I love just just the camaraderie

together the harmonies,

the just living life, living life with somebody else. So I said to the Lord, you know, I want to be a part of a team. I don't know what that looks like. And so everything just seemed. So you talked about along the way. I mean, here's a crumb. And then here's the next crime, here's an extra. So I said, Well, I'm honored and just so humbled by the fact that you would want me to join your family, which has such integrity. And I said, I'm going away to pray. And so me and my wonderful mentor, Debbie went to Charlotte, North Carolina, and to a wonderful little bed and breakfast. And and, and prayed at the orchard in and asked God to go before us and guide and director or just our time together. And I joined their family

and joined their circle of friends,

I joined their circle of friends and their circle of you know, now, you know, looking back, it was all of our kids around the same age. And so we wait, none of us, none of us girls have our families live near us, all of our families live far away. So we are each other's families. And so our kids got to travel together. And, and because and again, you know, it's just amazing to see how God just beyond the I couldn't have imagined this, I couldn't have couldn't have written this script, it was just, you know, really, really special. So that's my journey, pretty much up to now with just where I am musically, and my daughter who was 16, she has fallen in love with music. And so we're seeing a little bit of our extension of, you know, the heartbeat of our home, feel her heart as well. And our little six year old, we had our 20th anniversary and my husband and I found out we were pregnant. So that was a little

16 year old and a six year we

have a 16 year old daughter and a six year old little boy. And it was funny because I was writing this down the other day because we're working on a book called passing it down passing our story down and just telling the story and being responsible to our kids and telling the story of how Christ has changed. so important. Yes. Well, we have to, we can't count on the world, right. And a lot of our homes are not even going to church. So we have to make sure within our home that that we're sharing the gospel,

sharing how Christ has changed you

how Christ is changes how how Christ has come along the way with us how Christ is has been in the you know, even when we feel betrayed, disappointed, lonely, he's still there, it's just a matter of how is it that we are being still enough to hear his presence, because that's half of it. You know, for me, I'm my husband and I live very simple. And we've had the privilege of waking up every morning with our kids, pretty much putting them to bed every night with our kids eating at the dinner table together. These are things nowadays that are almost unheard of. But we I mean, it was it was my husband's desire to be a part of his kids lives. It was a it was my desire to, to just live out live with my kids, you know, did we have kids to just big on? Or do we have kids to make our life even more abundant. And so we found out we were pregnant, and I had that little handy dandy we brought him home Thanksgiving Day of 2012. So ladies, don't give up. I was 43 when I had Andy and you know, again, I will never get my running legs back. But that's okay, he's running for for us. You know, I often say that. A lot of times we we just assume a certain part of our life once that once that birthday comes or once that timeline comes that, you know, our our story is pretty much towards the end. But I would say to you, you know, don't don't close the book, he's still riding, he's still writing a lot of chapters, and especially if we will be still long enough to pay attention to each each of those days. And one of the things that I will will say to kids is, you know, we want to squeeze as much out of every day we have that we can because we just not promised tomorrow just aren't.

Yeah, absolutely. I love what you were talking about earlier about how you were presented with one of the biggest opportunities of your life with being asked to be a part of the point of grace, and who but when the legacy of point of grace is, is phenomenal. And you were asked to be a part of that. And I love that your response was I'm going to go away to pray. And you'd already had that plan, you'd already build that space in your life, where that's going to be that's the important thing anyway, this decision is just now something that you have to now pray about, right? Everything in your flesh, probably it was like, Yes, I'll do this, right? You were disciplined enough to say, I'm going to trust the Lord that if this isn't him, he's going to make that known as well. Right? Obviously, praise the Lord that he you know, that was his plan for you. But I love that you you build that space where you could be still to allow your heart to burn

Oh, well, I again, a lot of people don't necessarily have the privilege of allowing that much time, you know, to be away. Sure. So I will, I would say to a lot of people, you know, God can do a lot with a little bit of time. And he can do a lot with just the the genuine seeking Him with your whole heart. I said to my friend the other day, who's who's battling, just just, she's going through a hard time and I just reminded her that Christ owns time. And because he owns time, he can add to it subtracted he can, he can do whatever he wants, within the confines of, of, of our minds and of our bodies, he owns it. So don't worry, you're not going to miss out, he will capture whatever needs to be captured. And he will make sure you don't miss out on anything. But you know, when you was we're talking about just taking that time to pray. My spirit wanted that time to pray, because I knew point of grace represented. They represented musical excellence, but they also represented spiritual integrity. And plenty guys did not know my story at the time, and they were four girls that shared with other teenage girls that they stay pure before they were married. And so when the girls asked me to join their family, my flesh in the back of my mind those little those strongholds that we often have, they begin to play a game and and you begin to wrestle with, well, they don't know my past and they don't know, you know, I can't say what they're saying I can't. And so that time of praying with my mentor, because she knows she knew everything about me. That time of praying with my mentor, I had no idea what God was, was getting ready to do. And in that time of praying with Debbie, you know, I shared with Debbie, I said, I can't not tell them, I don't want to give them the false impression that to wear that point of grace banner of purity, that I'm living a lie. And so I, when we got home from our retreat, we we went out to dinner, Denise Shelley and Heather and we went out to dinner, and I just shared with them. And I was very, very nervous. John, I was very nervous. And then my sweet husband was with me because he's so precious. But I'd never told anybody except my best friend, and my mentor my story. And I'd shared with them that when I was 19, I found out I was pregnant, and I didn't have the courage to do the right thing. And so I had an abortion. And they, again, demonstrated grace and shared the story 50 million times, but I don't cry because of the sin, I cry because I'm so blessed, God redeemed redeems us out of the sand. And so. So I shared with the girls, and I said, you know, you may want to rethink your invitation. And you know, Shelley responded by saying, it's for such a time as this and your message with us talking to thousands of girls a year, thousands of girls a year are going to encounter some of the same things that you've encountered. And maybe you can say something to them, that would remind them that even in difficult things, and even through things they struggle with that God is still has enough grace to forgive us for all and he has enough strength within us for us to, to endure temptation, all those things. And so I that began something within the framework of my heart and my, my family didn't know my story. And my husband knew it, my best friend knew it. And my mentor knew it. And

it began to just

it was a process. It wasn't I wasn't ready to just, you know, it wasn't Time sure to tell the world but God was God was working and through through my my spiritual mom and and some counseling. And we began to work on it. And so we are now let's see, we are I've been with the girl six teen years, I've been with the girls 16 years. 15 years ago, we had prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed. And I was like, Debbie, I don't know if I can tell my family, I will devastate my family. And I tell my family. And and, you know, again to the listener. I grew up in a beautiful Christian home it was it was obvious that my mom and dad loved Jesus and they wanted their their daughters to love Jesus. And I knew when I asked Christ into my heart at nine years old that I needed him to forgive me of all my sin. I knew he died on a cross for me, I knew all those things. And so I was, so I wasn't concerned that Christ hadn't forgiven me. I was more concerned that telling my family how disappointed they would be. And you know, you're talking I'm almost 30 years old at this point still struggling with? Do I tell them? Is it necessary? I mean, I've worked it out with the Lord and and so you talk about burning, you know, it just wouldn't stop. It wouldn't stop burning. And so I'll try to make a long story a little, a little short. But I called my beautiful sister whose name happens to be Dana as well. So we have Dana girl. That's my sister and Dana Boy, that's my husband. And I called her and I said, and at this time, we all had little pumpkins, and I said, Would you orchestrate? The husband's taking the kids? I'm going to drive home, me and Dan are going to drive home and I need to talk to the family. And so my sister is like, Oh, are you okay? Are you Is everything okay? You know, I mean, your brain starts you know, are you sick? Is it our mental and, and so I just said, You know, I said to her, I said, I had to tell her a little bit because, you know, I didn't want her heart to just be it wasn't fair to her to be to play a play within the just isn't didn't exist, and

so can run YO,

they can run wild. I mean, so I shared it with her. And we had a we had a really nice cry. And and again, you know, you talk about sisterhood, you know, I thank God for my sisters and, and those even outside, like Shelley and Denise that are my sisters. And I'm just so thankful for those godly people that don't bring condemnation. You know, so, I, me and my husband and my daughter at the time, we drove to South Carolina, and my family, my mom, my dad, and my two sisters, we were all in our little bitty living room in the house I grew up in. And I shared with them that God has been stirring within me to, not to, to no longer have secrets, to put it in the light. And when things are in the light, there is no darkness. And the enemy doesn't have an opportunity to just play. And this is not for everybody. Some things are just between you and the Lord. Right, right. But for me, this was what the burning was. And because I've loved my mom and dad so much. And I could tell that there was something within me there was a little piece that were just that just always felt uneasy. And I think it was just because was that pretending was I faking, I don't know, but I just wanted to be real. And I wanted to be honest, and I wanted, and I wanted them to say that God, that Christ in me, was, had a purpose for the ashes that he could turn into beauty. He had a purpose for it. And so I sat down that little bitty living room with my family. And I couldn't even say the words all the way before my mother was up on her feet, holding me in her arms. And, again, God's demonstration of I can just see him getting off the throne and welcome welcoming into me and his arms and glory. And, you know, that's the Christ that we serve in he is he's so full of grace, and he's so full of mercy. And I love the word mercy, because it's, it's, I, I didn't get what I deserved. And because he went to the cross, so that I didn't have to, and you know, that, that that that never gets old with me, because a lot of times we we point of grace, I shared this story with wonderful artist and writer, Nicole Norman, about 10 years ago, and she came back and wrote a song called heal the wound. And it basically, it just talks about, Father God, thank you that you heal the wound, but would you leave the scar so that I can be reminded of what you did for me? And it's the same, you know, as we think about when the disciples, including Thomas, when the disciples saw the scars, can you imagine how relieved they were like, this is real. This is real. That is Christ. Yeah. I mean, I know, if I was in the upper end, I'd be like, Oh, thank God, I saw that. Because my humanity still detours itself from truth. And, and, and, and what we know to be fact, you know, God's word. And so that song has meant so much to, to me and to our audience, because a lot of people walk around with scars, some of them because of choices they've made like me, some of them because of something that was done to them. But

in the process of that scar, that means there was healing, and we have to remember that God gives us the power to be healed, we're not just automatically healed, he gives us the power to be healed. And what I mean by that is, we have to understand that his grace is to be received, I received it was year I was in my mid 30s. Before I really understood, wait a minute, all of his crisis for me, all of it. And, you know, we can replay and, and and rewind and want to redo but the end of the day, what he did was a gracious amount and was plenty for me and for anybody. Anybody. You know, I tell your audience that none of this came with a, it came, it came with, you know, just that wrestling, wrestling, as as I'm sure many, many people wrestle with, to do or not to do or to share or not to share. You know, there's a lot of there's a lot of families, there's a lot of marriages out there that have a lot of secrets. And again, it is not i'm not i'm not talking Jerry Springer here, I'm not I'm not saying that I'm just saying, for me, and for the way God was speaking to me, this was what he wanted me to do. And I was very sure, I was assured that this was the direction. And what I saw out of that was a beautiful family representing God's grace, a recognition that, that the sky left in our life can have a purpose, and they can have meaning and they can have a breath within them that serves serves a community serves. I mean, do you know how so it's so crazy that a woman after I share my story or talk about it from stage, a woman will literally just come up, stretch your hand out to me, she'll look at me, she'll have no words need to be said. And our hearts are connected. She's telling me, thank you. Yeah, that was me. Because one out of every three, in the church or outside of the church have had to have my story. And but what I tell teenage girls, as well as anybody what I did was wrong, it was not the right choice, God would have empowered me to do the right thing. I just didn't have the courage to do it didn't have the courage, I was scared. And, oh, hi, I would say to my daughter, and my daughter knows my story and, and talk about an opportunity to be vulnerable with your kid. Don't miss those moments to be vulnerable with your kid. Because when your kid sees that you're as real as they are, and you have the same struggles that they do, you've opened an opportunity of communication that allows your home to have be a place of safety. We want our home to be a place of safety, we want our kids to come and vomit, and their home where we will be like the church and we will say God still loves you. And we forget the power within our own home as believers to to help rescue the perishing and care for the dying. You know, it's a privilege, it's a privilege and an honor to help people, our world is broken enough. It's just broken enough. But God, if we let him, if we will work on it, it's just like, everybody wants that beautiful body overnight. So drink your apple cider vinegar and your wake up and you'll be a size to know, you got to work at it, everything that counts that has that has great benefits, it takes time. It just takes time. And I would just encourage everybody take time. Don't fast forward, take time to work it out. Pray it out, and talk it out. And live it out. do those things and don't get ahead of it.

Let him come along the side of you along the way. And just little steps steps at a time steps at a time. It doesn't mean that you're not going to wake up even today I woke up my heart was so heavy because situation and but I know he's with me, I know his presence is with me. But I've also learned to exercise that that method to exercise that I can't base everything on my feelings, I have to base everything on what I know to be true. And what I know to be true is His faithfulness in my life.

absolutely believe if you could go back in time and give yourself the younger version of yourself, maybe 1913, whatever it was, you could go back in time and sit with yourself and give yourself some advice. What's happening in your life at that point? And what would you say to yourself?

You know, when you're 15, I would say to myself, trust God's boundaries, trust his protection over you it was it's not to harm you, it really is to protect you. So that 20 years later in your, in your when you if you decide to marry, you enter in that covenant with such a just an assurance of of this, this was the right way, I would encourage myself to also it between 15 and 17 and 19 that I would encourage myself by saying that all things are possible, it really is true. And that when our eyes are open, God puts people in our lives that can help us along the way. And and I would also say to my 15 year old, 19 year old self, that the truth is always better than secrets. The truth is always better than pretending The truth is always better. Then doing what you know, is not the right thing. Because now I see that a family that loves you unconditionally. It doesn't mean there won't be disappointment. It doesn't mean that let's be real. If I would have gone to my mom at at 19 and said, Mom, I'm pregnant Dad, I'm pregnant. I don't know what they would have done. I know they would have didn't been disappointed. But would they have? Would they have disowned me? No. No. With a have? Would that our homestead been a little tense for one year? Yeah. But I'll never know because I didn't give it an opportunity. I would say Let's trust God to do the impossible. Because the impossible represents the right thing. Again, this is my story. I'm not I'm not putting anybody else's footprints on my story. These are my feet. This is the path I walked. And if I could say to my 19 year old self, I would have said, tell your parents the truth. Tell the truth. And watch, watch what would unfold. And you know, this is kind of a little bit of a way from from, you know what we're talking about. However, it comes alongside it and that is you know, when I found out I was pregnant with Darby I was scared to death. Am I going to have a healthy baby? I don't deserve I don't deserve it. You know, he just so

you were 19 when you have the abortion? How old were you when I was

32 when I found out I was pregnant with Darby. Yeah, we waited. I mean, it was 10 years after we were married before we had Darby. And a lot of that was fear. A lot of that was just scared and finding excuses to you know, I wasn't enough I wasn't enough to be a mom I didn't deserve to be a mom that was a privilege and for others and I deserve and again let's let's remind ourselves where that comes from. It doesn't come from God doesn't come from the Lord. And so I would I what I was going to say is that I was scared to death to be a mom. But when I found out we were pregnant with with Darby, I was so afraid I was just you know, you just you just a role play every silly scenario. And so once I finally had Darby, Darby, Darby may means free and great. That's what her name means. And she represents a freedom for me because I am free from the bondage of my past. And great meaning a God that is greater than anything I can imagine rescued me from my own trappings and so free and great. So she she is a beautiful, every time I you know, see or, you know, I'm reminded of God's God's mercy and grace. And so one of the things because I don't live under a rock, I know that Darby is going to go through the exact same things I went through. And so my prayer for my children, especially my teenager, when she was a teenager starting to be a teenager, I was like, Lord, let her get caught. Let it let her get call it, we'll figure it out, we'll work it out, let her get caught. And be careful when you play it. But I didn't want it. I didn't pray that for her to throw darts at her. I pray that for her so that I may she her family could come alongside her and remind her of God's forgiveness. Gosh, if we, it's so easy to give out grace, when you know it's been given to you, it's so easy to forgive when you know you've been forgiven. All these things that Christ did for us. When we have them placed upon us and receive it, it's so much easier to just give it out. Because you know, you are the worst of these and without, without those things, you know, so we we pray that our kids are kind of get caught. I don't get caught. And it's it's been, you know, again, there ain't a family that's perfect out there. And children are a blessing from the Lord. But when they become teenagers.

They just Hello.

And

it's been since the beginning of time, right. And but I think if we I think if we remove some of the church and ease lingo and remove some of the maybe the blinders as being Christians that will now we're protected from all this no surgery, you are in a war zone. And you better believe it every day. And so I would you know, I just encourage single moms, I encourage single dads, I encourage married couples, aunts, all these people that have a thumbprint on the generation underneath them, we can make a difference. And it doesn't mean that we can't necessarily carry the title of motherhood or whatever. But we can make a difference in their life by demonstrating to them what has been demonstrated in our own lives. And if your story demonstrates God's mercy and forgiveness, by all means, spread the good news. Yeah, it's just too important. And our world is full of loneliness and depression. The world is at our disposal. But the world God did not want us to carry the world's burdens. He didn't, we're not equipped to, I would encourage you to protect your kids from what they are not supposed to carry, and protect yourself. And some of you that might mean get off Facebook or get off Instagram. Get off. If it is good. If it is cluttering up your the privilege of you telling the story and passing it down and being intentional in your home, put it aside. Put it aside just for a week and see what God will do. We got to declare in order to hear God's voice since his presence his direction. And a lot of people may say, Well, I don't have time I've got to go to work on your way to work, pray on your way back from work, pray, find again, I am living proof that God can do a lot with a little and he because he reads our heart. Thank you, Jesus, he reads our heart. Because he reads our heart. He knows what our desire is. And he didn't put it in there for it to just get squashed. He put it in there because he wants he wants to do something with that desire. So that will give Him glory for it. And again, I don't want to get so churchy with my lingo because I I love being around those that seek I am. I love being around non believers because I want to pick their brain, I just want to go. I want to know, you know, because I grew up up in a Christian home, it was just easy. It was at my disposal. And so, you know, I don't want to get caught up in and using words that would ostracize anybody but you know, love will never ostracize anybody. Kindness will never ostracize anybody. Smile will never ostracize anybody. And let's be more of that than anything else.

Yeah. You talked earlier about getting away to be with the Lord. And you brought it up again, getting away from Facebook, getting away from those things that distract you, Lee, how does God communicate with you? How do you hear God? And what do you do to spend time with him

what I have, I've learned that God uses a certain pattern with me. Oftentimes, it would be whether it's, you know, reading my devotion, or reading a reading the Scripture, but it will start there. And then it will just start with real general prayer, just Father, you know, change my heart, if this is it, this is not and then sometimes I will be just as specific as possible, but it will start, it will start with that as its foundation. And then IB, John Brown, if within you know, a day or a few days, a person will reiterate, or a person will bring in clarity. A friend. It's, I call it Jesus magic. It's, but that's how God works with me. I have what is called My, my daily Trinity. And if I can read my devotion, Workout, 30 minutes and have a decent meal on the table at night for my family, I feel like those are the three things that keep me sane, saying for lack of a better word. Yeah, I had a dear dear friend, we're just moved. And I don't know if anybody has moved recently, but it will exhaust you mentally, physically, spiritually, and emotionally. And I was at that point, and I had, I'd caught out to the Lord and I was just like, I can't do this. I mean, I'm, I'm not good at anything, because everything is just scattered. And I just, you know, just ask the Lord, oh, Lord, I, I don't know what to do, I need to do this, I need to do this, and I need to do this. And he just reminded me, if you are doing all these things, you then you're busier than I intended for you to be. And let's, let's just slow down a little bit. And so two words, just kept. They became a pattern somehow or another they just became a pattern, whether it's through friends or or just my own personal time with the Lord, but two words, simplify and declutter. And, for me, de cluttering was in the moving process. As I took it out of the box, do I need it? simplifying was

the the stuff in my life that was not necessary, like I'm a cleaning freak. Do I need to clean every day? Do I need to know what's more important today? Let's go and make sure. Let's make an extra batch of salsa and give it to my neighbor. You know, just simplify and declutter those two things for me allowed me to, quote get away, so that I could just have a little bit more of a pulse on things that matter to him. Because if I am always claiming and always, you know, because trust me when you own a home, anybody out there that owns a home, there's always something to do. But you have to be intentional about is it necessary? Yeah, Patsy Claremont did that one Poland, I remember back in the day, it was I forget who the lady was with the the gist of it was dust if you must. But if it's not necessary talent, you know. So you know, all that to say, getting away for me as a mom, of a six year old and as, as a mom of a 16 year old, as a wife, as a daughter, as somebody that's a part of her church community. For me, it was for me, I don't and really pointed grace, we're the same. We don't do Facebook as much as most people do. We don't do Instagram. We've just decided that if it's work related, we'll do it. But I don't need to remind you that my day was so full of joy and blessing and food and Wallah. For me again, for me, this is this my mind when it is declared, I see better, I hear better. I'm just more into, because I can't. If I prayed the prayer list that's on my Facebook, I would never get up off my knees. And prayer is good and pray without ceasing. But again, I go back to God did not want us to carry the Earth's burdens Did not he wants us to, to have a heart after him. And he'll help us figure out where that needs to be cut, pasted. He'll help us do all that. But first, we have to have a willing spirit to do it. And our children are going to implement us if all they see is us on our our phones and our technology through true then that we're just raising a generation to disconnect from people's faces, people's hearts. And we were not designed for that he will he designed us for fellowship. Yeah. And it's very important.

Yeah. Please mentioned a book that you're working on with your sisters appointed grace. When does that come out?

That will be I think, Mother's Day is the 2020. But I think we will probably start offering it you know, to the to the world around March 2020, April 2020. But it's again, we we sat down with the wonderful people at LifeWay. And we knew we didn't want to do another record because we had just finished a hymns and worship record and a Christmas record. And we knew it was time to musically just take a step back. But we knew we were in a season all three of us had turned 50. And we were in a new season of our lives where we saw the importance of as our kids were leaving for college. Denise has two in college and Shelley and I had two daughters that are 16. So we know that that's around the corner. And then me Hello starting all over again with kindergarten and first grade. So we were all in a different place in our lives where we were recognizing two things, our parents were growing older, and we knew our time was extremely

important with them. And then

saying goodbye to our kids in the safety of our home by going off to college or, and so we wanted to make sure that we had the message of just taking Christ with you and everything you do and for our parents saying thank you for passing your story down to us. And so we sat down with the people at LifeWay and said, you know, we want to we just want to remind people that we didn't do it right in every way. But those people alongside us that were great witnesses, they taught us a few things. And we've learned a few things. And here's here's what we learned, here's what we pray that we could encourage you with and we want to pass it down to you.

Yeah. Now you you're talking about, you have a mentor. And now you're talking about passing it down. That's discipleship and action right there. You know, my question for you is what do you look for in a mentor? And then what do you look for in a mentee,

what I looked for in a mentor was somebody that was ahead of me spiritually, whether it would be in years, especially in years, I looked for a woman, I'm a woman, and a woman knows how to talk to a woman because we experienced the same same things, a lot of the same things. I knew she, I could see the fruit on her tree. And it was, it was good. And so I, I looked at that for a mentor. The other thing that just kind of happened outside of my wheelhouse of knowledge, as I found Debbie was, she wanted that mentorship just as much as I want heard a mentor me. And we found such camaraderie in it and where she taught me, I taught her. And so it was it was very hand in hand. But I've had a lot of mentors, you know Patsy's men, to all the women of faith women. I've have a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful lady named Pat Wenger, that that was on the women of faith. She was a part of the women faith family. But you know, you talk about the importance of what a mentor is, again, because they're not perfect. Don't expect them to be perfect, but because they are godly, expect them to guide you in the right direction. I knew I wanted to find someone that could be honest with and safe that they were going to take my, my, my privacy and keep it tucked away in their heart, it wasn't going to be something that they told, but I could I could count on them to hold my story and protect it. But as far as being a mentor, you know, there's a lot of girls that that I have had the privilege of mentoring, and I would hope that they are seeing may be honest with them, uniquely enough. The ones that I'm mentoring right now with the exception of one, I'm a mothership, they don't have that mother figure necessarily. So being a being a mentor to others. I don't take it lightly, what they discuss with base stays with me. And then I began to, you know, talk to the Lord about it. And so it stays in a nice vault of protections as well. You know, you offer them things to read or you direct them. You kind of just, it's a lot of role playing. It's a lot of let's talk this out. You're watching Debbie mentor me, I've learned I've learned an etiquette of there's a way to talk to that person without making them feel stupid, or making them feel ungodly or guilty or shameful. There's a way to do it. And she does, it was such beauty. It's it's amazing how anytime I've ever thrown up on her, she's never made me feel like I've thrown up on her, you know, Denise, in point of grace, she would say practice your shock face, you know, practice not having that shock face. And, you know, I've heard a lot of things that I think God just kind of prepares you to to hear he equips you to just being a listening air, being an open heart and open mind. And you know, just covering everything with grace as you speak to that person that that we really wants to hear. I mean, you're there tangible, Christ. That's a very good say that very, say that in a very gentle way. You know, I'm not saying I'm Christ, I'm just saying that sometimes in our humanity, we need something that we can touch, see, feel, you know, all the senses. That's why Jesus embodied flesh

it came in.

That's exactly right. And so for these young girls, that's what they need sometimes. And I love telling them some things I did wrong, especially some of the young married girls, I go, listen. 27 deep, it's still rough, as a matter of fact, 25 here, and I thought it was just going to go to put, you know, be real with them. You know, my Debbie would say to me, early on, she would say to me, I would say to her, you know, all I do is you know, I just yell at my kids, I yell I you know, Dana and I fight all the time. And she would say to me, if your kids are going to see fight, make sure they see you forgive. And because

we're going to fight right there.

We're going to fight that's exact wisdom. And so I make sure that when my kids see us argue they see us forgive. Because what are we going to prove to live in a world to live in a home and be precious? Oh, you darling. I like it's not that way. All the time. Patsy Claremont taught me the importance of manners, simple manners, and start with your spouse, start with the people in your home. So I tell my kids, please and thank you are like a big kiss and a hug. Hey, babe, I forgot to tell you, thank you so much for taking that trash out. Because I know it was my turn, but they hear me say them. And I, it can be as simple as cleaning the dishes, we want our kids to understand the importance that in the little things can go so far, and just relationships. And it all starts with respect. I mean, manners have to do with respect, I respect my husband, I respect my daughter. I even respect my little six year old boy. Because I know he's a little adult, he's going to grow up and be a big boy. You know, so in our home, it's the heart of our home is music. The message to our kids is be kind and warm. And use your manners. Because we know that we know sometimes it's hard to love the unlovable. And and if we fight, make sure they see us forgive. And I my kids will never ever say this. My mother had a hard time saying she was sorry. My goodness gracious. I say it 600 adult say it in fluff. Like, we often say I love you know, I say it sincerely I get down on their level. And I say what mommy did. Andy, I'm sorry, that was not right. I want them to understand that being vulnerable. And within the home within the family dynamic is so important. Because family dynamic is difficult enough. Let's remove one of those elements and at least help our kids for it to be whether you're a male or a female, you can say I'm sorry.

Absolutely.

Yeah, you can do it. And it's it doesn't demean you. It doesn't lower you on the totem pole, it actually it actually allows probably more respect to be given back because you're willing to admit when you're wrong.

I had a situation happen like that in my life where a leader, he raised his voice at me it wasn't quite yelling, he doesn't yell. But he raised his voice. And I was like, Okay, I'll just extend forgiveness. The very next day, he pulls me aside in private because it happened in private, okay, the very next day, he pulled me aside. And he said, John, I apologize for that, that what I did was wrong. And in that moment, I knew I would follow him wherever he goes. Absolutely, without a doubt, because I know that he is not above, saying I'm sorry, he's not above being wrong, if he doesn't recognize himself as more more highly than he ought, yes,

yes, meek and humble. Those are such beautiful, beautiful characteristic traits and, and our kids, again, the enemy destroys a family than the enemy has one a mighty mighty war. And I fight really hard to

fight really hard, it's worth the fight to keep

the family it's just got to stay. I need God's hedge of protection over it is what I'm trying to say. And I don't take any of that lightly. And so for me, what God has pressed within me is the importance of, you know, the scripture that talks about, you know, cleaning your house out getting your house in order, what does that mean for me? Well, for me, as a wife, a mom, a daughter, what all those things, I need to check my own heart, where, where am I and, and let me tell you something, at age 50, he's still working on me just as hard as he ever has. And I'm thankful for that. And I pray that I will have the teachable spirit at all times, because I don't want to, I don't want my heart to be hardened to anything he wants to teach me. I really don't I really don't have a life first. Yes, I do. And when it was, when I was a teenager, I went to my mom and I said, Mom, I was I was getting ready to do a high school pageant. And I was like, Mom, they wanting us to, you know, either have a life verse or you know, have a have a quote from somebody and say, Mom, I don't, I don't know. And, again, talk about passing it down. My mother said to me, I will, I'll share with you my life first. And I'll pass that down to you. And maybe it will be something that that you can hold firm to. And so she passed down to me her life first of Second Timothy one, seven. And at the time, it was a verse for me to memorize just to accomplish the pageant. Again, but no one god what God sees ahead of us. He knew that that verse was going to be more than just a lie first for me it was going to be it was it was a lifeline. You know, it was beyond just a verse that I could go back to as as memorization, but it was going to be a verse that was going to help me stay focused, and and be reminded that if I'm not careful, that fear was going to paralyze me. And it's going to strip me of anything that sound so Second Timothy, one seven, for God has not given me the spirit of fear, but of power and love and sound mind. And I often take scriptures, anytime I can put my personal name in there. I do, because it makes it makes it very, it's, it's, it's for me, wrap up in it.

I'm really enjoying our time together. This is great just listening to hear all the wisdom that you're passing it down to me and our listeners as well. I would be at a loss if I didn't ask you to pray, and minister and some of the issues of healing and share about the scars. Sure. I love that you said that song heal me, but leave the scars. There's so many people with those scars, but they're not completely healed yet. Would you please, Minister and pray for somebody that's listening like

I would love to, let's pray together. And it's an attitude of the heart. So if you're driving, you don't have to, you know, close your eyes, please don't. But it's an attitude of the heart. So Father, we come to you with our hearts. And we come to you with some of our hearts and our hope feel hopeless. Some of our hearts feel shameful, some of our hearts are filled with, filled with guilt, and depression and loneliness. Father, you came to seek and to say that which is lost and some of that being lost, you came to seek and save those of us that feel hopeless, you came to seek and save those of us that feel full of shame and guilt, you went to the cross for that. And it is not just dissemble. But it is something that you did so that we are redeemed completely. Father, the scars that are left and some of the lives out there, I pray that they would know and hear your message of redemption, they would hear your message of complete forgiveness. And that it is for them whether the scar is there because of a choice they made. Or the scars are there because of something that was done to them. Father, I pray that you would equip them to know that your grace is enough, you would equip them to know that your mercy is for them, you would equip them to know that they're free that your forgiveness in their life allows them to shake off the which is old and they are now new. And Father that they can walk in it, that they can now be a new creature because of you not because of anything we have done or can do. But because of what you did for us. It was enough father that all that you're bruised, all that your body was bruised for was for our healing, and all those things or for us to just take off of the clothes that have paralyzed us with guilt and shame and unforgiveness. You went to the cross for Thank You, Jesus for doing that. So we thank you that you have washed us as white as snow. That everything that you did was for us, because you love us. Not because we deserve it because you just say love us. And it's hard for us to, to take that in because of our capacity to love. But your capacity to love is beyond anything we can think imagine or understand. So with that lack, would you fill us help us in our unbelief? Would you help us and fill us with absolute assurance that what you did was enough for us and we receive it, we receive it in Jesus name, the power and which raises the dead we receive it in Jesus name. So go be with everyone listening, go be with everyone that is wanting to completely know that they do not have to be paralyzed by their past. They do not have to walk in shame or guilt because of anything they've done or that was done to them but they can walk in freedom. They can walk in freedom. In Jesus name, we say thank you from making beauty out of those ashes. Amen. Amen and Amen. Amen. Thank you so much.

I'm really impressed by Lee's intentionality is setting aside time with the Lord to see Kim. Even before she had the opportunity of a lifetime presented to her. I'm really convicted by that it's been a while since I set aside extended time to seek the Lord like that. That needs to be a regular thing in my life, and maybe in your life too. And not just when there's a big decision in life that's approaching. I really appreciate it that the girls from point of grace brought ice cream sundaes when they were asking me to join their circle of friends. I totally support their methods. And if anyone wants to bring me ice cream, I'm more than okay with that too. Please vulnerability to talk about her abortion as a 19 year old and how that wound has actually turned into a beautiful scar was a powerful moment. When she started crying it was because of receiving God's over welcoming forgiveness. We all need to receive His grace and forgiveness every day. I'm challenged by this song lead mentioned that said, Would you heal the wound but leave the scar? Wow, I don't think I would have been able to pray that song. You know, there are many scars in life that I wish would just disappear. But scars can be a great reminder that God does heal physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I have a few scars from cuts and scratches that have stories, some better than others. I also have scars from surgeries to those things were cut out to protect me from what they could have become what in particular gets itchy, and it's annoying at times. But I'm sure that that little reminder is better than the alternative. Just like physical scars, our spiritual scars can be a great reminder that God does heal. Jesus is the great physician and he wants to heal you and make you hold. Another thing that we talked about was the mentor relationship in her life. That is so important. We need to have someone who can be real with us who can tell us like it is and give us the last 10% find a mentor who is honest and safe. And you can be a mentor for others as well. Our lives are so complicated. So one thing I'm taking away from this conversation is to simplify and declutter, and boy do I need to declutter family is super important delete and I love the advice that she gave. If your kids are going to see you fight, make sure they see you forgive. Wow, powerful. Be a good example. Later that very day, I was invited back for tacos and family game night, which was so much fun. Music and laughter really are at the heart of their home. I'm grateful for the opportunity to spend time with Lee Catalina her family and friends. Here's Lee again to tell how you can find out more about it grace and their upcoming Christmas tour.

You can find out what's happening with point of grace by going to point of grace.net as in fishers of men, we need nets point of grace.net. And it has our tour page. We're getting ready to do our Christmas tour. We're so excited about our Christmas tour. Oh my gosh. It's our 20th year celebrating our very first Christmas record the Christmas story. And we are going to 15 cities. Check out if we're going to be near you. We are going to do that Christmas record from top to bottom. No commercial breaks, no anything just top to bottom, the Christmas story pointer grace.net can give you all that information, a lot of fun, exciting things going on to wrap up 2019 and to move into 2020.

Thank you for listening to along the way. If you've enjoyed joining me along my way, please share this with a friend who you think will be encouraged by this podcast. Also, please rate and subscribe to along the way on iTunes. That helps more people discover along the way. And subscribe to this podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcast. And you can follow us on Facebook, Instagram and at my website along the way dot media. You can always email me at John along the way at gmail. com. I hope that you've enjoyed this part of my journey and may you realize when Jesus is walking with you along your way.