Hearing Heaven’s Conversation - Abigail Holt-Jenning’s Journey AlongTheWay 10

Lord is not afraid of our real conversations with him. You know, a lot of times, we we don't need to be afraid to have those conversations with the one who has formed us in our mother's womb, we might as well have the honest conversation and give him an opportunity to speak back. I just was like, God, what? What's the deal? Am I gonna live or am I gonna die?

Welcome to along the way. I'm John Matarazzo, your host and fellow traveler. Thank you for joining me along my way as I try to become more like Jesus every day. I love what I have the opportunity to talk with fascinating people and learn how God has met them along their way. Everyone has a story, and I believe that we can all learn from each other's journeys. Through my work as a television producer, I get to interact with some of the most amazing people making an incredible impact for God's kingdom. In this episode of it along the way, my journey connects me with Abigail Holt Jennings, she has represented the state of Georgia in the Miss America Pageant. She is also on staff at the Bethel Atlanta School of supernatural ministry. And she is the author of the conversation in heaven, living life's ups and downs through Heaven's lens. And somehow she makes time to homeschool her kids, if you want to know how to tune into the conversation that heaven is having, then you want to hear what she has to say. Before we get to the interview with Abigail, I want you to know that she is offering an audio version of her book, the conversation and heaven to a listener who will email me at John along the way at gmail. com. And tell me what has impacted you from this episode. You're along the way moments. Also, make sure to include your name and where you're listening from. I've really been enjoying hearing how my journey is helping others. If you would like to connect with me, you can find along the way on Facebook and Instagram. You can always email me at John along the way at gmail. com. And my social links and website are listed in the show notes as well. I'd love to hear your feedback. And now here's my alarm, the way conversation with Abigail hold Jennings.

All right, Abigail, thank you so much for being on along the way. It's great to have this conversation with you.

I'm so overjoyed to be here, john, you know, you're just such a neat person. So I'm super excited about about our time together.

Yeah. And you're, it looks like you're on your deck or something in Georgia. And I'm in my in my studio here and being my bedroom actually at the moment.

I love it.

You are a guest on real life A few months ago, and we've stayed in contact and it's been your story is is really remarkable how God has brought you through various seasons of your life. And you've had some crowning achievements. And you've had some really difficult battles and experiences with God as well. And so I want to learn from from your journey. So Abigail, Could you just tell me a little bit about yourself and your, your your background, your journey?

Yeah, yeah. Well, currently, I have two amazing children. I am a single mom with I homeschool my kids. And we have a big fat pet pig named Wilbur. Okay, now,

why your pig Wilburys? That's, that's

the funniest part is that we thought the whole time that it was a heat. So it was like, Oh, well, bird answer. So most recently, we found out that he is a sheet. So my dear friend was like, wait a minute, you don't have to? I'm like, Oh, great. Yeah, change the name. She's like, No, just will her you know, make it.

So That's right. That's right. So we have will per the pit. That's funny.

Alright, so outside of animals. What else?

Yes, yes. Yes. So I'm a counselor, I'm accounts are on staff at our church. And I'm also a worldwide counselor through a nonprofit organization that I've created called girl of hope, girl of hope. Yeah. And because through my own journey, I have realized, and I stay tear, filled and amazed by the truth that heaven is never a shortage of hope over any of us, and any of our situations, no matter how bleak, there is never a shortage of hope in heaven over us. So. So yeah, so I love to use my master's degree in counseling for that purpose, you know, and one of my, my mentors, Wendy batlin, I remember, she came to the Bethel School of supernatural ministry, and she said, Never counsel, anyone you do not have hope for, and that that has just burned in my heart, you know, just seared on me. And so no matter who I see who the Lord allows me to see, I just always try to tap into how how, what is heaven saying over this person, which, which began to be the pervasive theme in my own life through a lot of my struggles,

before your life as a counselor, tell me about some of those crowning achievements?

Well, so yeah, so I you know, I grew up a church girl, just loving the Lord all my life, went to Bible school, and just, you know,

just so loved him and and wanted to serve Him and knew I was called into full time ministry at 14. Mark Redlands is one of my mentors as well. And I would go to his church Kant's every year, and I just love that man and his family. And so he really I remember at 14 at a church camp, you know, I remember what I was wearing, and everything. And I was down at the altar. And I had always loved the Lord, but you know, their behavior patterns and certain things in my life that I just could not like, fix, right? And so when we try to do that, apart from the all sufficiency of Jesus, we will end up in just a ball of frustration, every time. And so he preached a sermon, I will never forget it on Jesus as your Savior. But is Jesus your Lord? And he gave the illustration of, you know, if you were drowning, and I threw in a life preserver to save you, and you were saved? Would I be your Savior? So technically, yes. But it's a whole entire different ballgame. If you say, oh, my goodness, you saved me from death. Now I'm going to follow you with my whole life. You know, that is a complete different distinction. And I remember in that black and white polka dotted pants suit, but I had at 14 kneeling on those old church camp risers. I just wept and I was like, Oh, Jesus, I want you to be the Lord of my life, you know, what you say, goes, you know, like, you are the boss, you know, you sit, I want you to sit on the throne of my heart. And, and it was such an amazing experience. And so from that point on, I was like, my life is yours. And, and I knew at that moment, I want you to preach and teach the gospel. I want you to preach the gospel. And it was so funny because Mark Rutland came over at that time. And, like, put his hand on my shoulder and basically validated everything that the Lord had just spoken to me. So super cool. And so I felt like it was my like, heavenly ordination, you know, into, into ministry and so, so yeah, so I just love Lord all my life and went to leave university had such a great time there. And then after college, well, in high school, I began to do pageants, like for fun, you know, my videos by VBS director, was a pageant coach, and Okay. Uh huh. And I unassuming. I mean, we did BBs with her when I was like, 11, you know. And so she began, her coaching experience began to turn into a modeling school began to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, I didn't think anything about it. I mean, I would come to church and you know, overalls and whatever, you know, after play it and trees and whatever.

So you're a bit of a tomboy growing up

a little bit a little bit. Yeah. And I played sports I love just like basketball, and soccer and softball and all that just loved it love to have four sisters, and we all played ball, you know? And so she was just like, Hey, you used to do you know, pageant? i? Like I never that No, no, yeah. She's like, you know, but you could get scholarship money for college. And I was like, Oh, wait, what, you know, so that kind of hurts my ears. And it would be a great tool to share the gospel. And I was like, yeah, yeah. Oh, sure. Okay, you know, so anyway, long story short there, I began to do them. And it was just crazy. I, I had great success, you know, and it was weird. It was like, I didn't feel like I even had to try, like, I would just lead into this favor. But I knew it wasn't me joining me, like, I would see these girls. And I was like, Oh, she's way prettier. Oh, she couldn't, you know, like, wow, is I would just go out there like cleaning, you know, to the Lord, like, why am I here? What am I doing, you know, and then I would like when, you know, crazy. And, um, and so that that began a series of things. And then I competed in the Miss Georgia and the Miss USA and did very well. And so that, that was just super neat. And so, so right before a big competition, and I, I met a man after college, who then would be my husband, and I was youth pastor, and he was youth pastor, during I had waited, I thought I would, you know, meet the man of my dreams in college didn't happen, and then met him. And after we married, we passed her church together for 12 years, and just had tons of ups and downs and all kinds of things and but very sadly, after that, the the marriage dissolved and, and I went through the most devastating hurt of my life, you know, I never in a million years thought that I'd be divorced, ever. And just kept holding on and holding on. And, you know, that stories for another time. And I've learned that we should never be ashamed of any part of our story. Because it is there were there's always opportunity for the glory of God to be revealed. And so I have, I'm not even the same woman, John, I'm not even the same woman. But yet it's part it's woven into the fabric of my life, you know, you know what I mean? And so, I just encourage people now as a counselor, like, God is at an at, not one point, has the Lord ever been ashamed of you, you know, or your story, because he's, he's, you're so seen in the blood of Jesus, and the redemption of Jesus, you know, and so, it's just such a neat thing. So, anyway, we were pastors and all that great stuff. And, you know, people thought we were Barbie, and Ken, and you know, just all that. And so just just a lot of just underwent a lot of betrayal and hurt and just believing God for that thing to be restored. And so, so it was not. And through through all that I, I really learned, you know, to that, you know, at our lowest points where we feel so broken, and we see nothing, I write about it in my book, like I felt like, for a long time, all I could see in my life was that this big, ugly bulldozer had come and just leveled anything that I ever saw is beautiful, you know. But then, as Jesus began to show me, the deeper meaning inside of that bulldozer was that a bulldozer can actually tear up things to bring room for new growth, and new life, you know, and I never dreamed that, on this side of it, that I would know him, you know, because people don't. They read that scripture and collages. But do they really, really understand? Oh, to know him, and the power of his resurrection? And the fellowship of his sufferings?

The most popular sermon preached in the pulpit

know, the fellowship of his sufferings is not something that we want to embrace. When we think of fellowship, we think of potluck dinners after church or things like that. But the fellowship of his suffering is it there's there's a camaraderie whenever you go through something like that, and you draw, you're drawn closer to those that are you go through that with, and, you know, as we go through that with Jesus, we can't help but be drawn closer to him through that. Right.

Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting, because Jesus, you know, Graham Cooke talks about betrayal. And he says, sometimes it's, it's that very last step, you know, to promotion, the kingdom. And this betrays Jesus, on the heels of his experience in the garden of guests m&e, and you know, you remember any went back? And that, could you not watch with me? Could you not? Oh, look, now the soldiers are coming in. Interestingly enough, guess 70 actually means my killing.

So,

so ever heard that before?

Part of guests, somebody means by killing and it also means all of press is within 70? That the it's the crushing, you know, that, we think, because sometimes we just think any sorrow or suffering from our life is, this is the enemy. This is the enemy, you know? Well, I think we give him too much credit in our life, I think there are things that are allowed to bring the crushing that actually would bring this the greatest regrets from within our lives, you know, so, I know No, for me, I just, I mean, gosh, I, I'm just like God, then you get your full reward Jesus, you get your full reward in this experience in in my life, and but there was, there was a season that I just thought, I think this thing is going to kill me. I just think it's gonna kill me and, and he has so gloriously resurrected me. Out of that hurt and pain. And, and that's a lot of why I do what I do. Because I know what it is like, when you feel like, there is no hope. Like, there is literally no hope. And that is a scary place to be. And it's really, it's a place filled with lies of the enemy. Right. But people that believe that, that is how suicide happens. That is how those things, when you see no hope is when you give up. Truly, you know, right? So I just want to able even just, if I can just turn on a flashlight of hope, or someone and to continue to tell them never give up. Don't give up. It's not time to give up. You know. So yeah, so it's it's a it's been any, any journey for sure.

Yeah. Now, you talked a little bit earlier about when you were 14, when you really gave your life to the Lord, you knew that your purpose was to be a preacher to be minister. And then you meet this guy. And he, you and him get married and your pastors. And you knew that your purpose was ministry? And then everything falls apart? I how did you get through that? I mean, you talked a little bit about that. But I just I just have to ask about that. I'm sure it felt like your purpose was just gone?

Oh, absolutely. Because Because, see, sometimes we don't, this happens very subtly, like, because, you know, being a pastor's wife life and all that, of course, I I loved all that. But I went through a lot like, I mean, the church had its ups and downs. And then it was in our home for a while. And then like all this stuff, and I'm birth and babies in this time and like, you know, you are not seeing the best side of me. Do you see what I'm saying? So I began to read like, there, there was this growing lie within me, like, you know, my identity was in my life, because I could preach and teach and sing and lead worship and all that. But this sneaky little lie began to grow in my heart, your identity is in your gifting. Or your identity is in your looks, or, you know, or your these things are, that she makes you who you are. Now, if you told me that I said that's not true. But there were there were patterns in my life that pointed to Yes, it I loved more, or I'm seeing more, or I'm given more attention more when I show up with all my toys, and my gift things that might you know, but when all that is ripped away,

and it's just you and Jesus, then who are you? Who are you? And so

the Lord and His kindness began to you know, that scripture that says, everything that can be shaken, will be shaken and people stop there. They don't quote the restaurant. So that that which cannot be shaken remains, hey, there is joy in that. There is help in that he said, and then he says, Larry says, you are receiving an unshakable kingdom. And so, you know, don't we want to how's the resurrected Christ in an unshakable foundation? Go? And I just thought, Oh, God, you I was a shattered mess. John, in the Lord begin to rebuild me, brick by brick, piece by piece in him. So that no height of success, no podcast, no stage, no judge, no divorce, no depth of hell could define me in either place. But my identity was in I am who you say I am. I am a daughter of the Most High God. It seems that is what Jesus modeled for us. He said, and I cry without care. Forget it. You know, any, Jesus knew who he was. He knew who he was when the crowds were cheering his name John. He knew who he was when they were waving Paul braids to said, you know, bless that is he who comes in the name of the Lord. But he knew who he was before Pontius Pilate, when he said, you can fix this right now. Who are you? He said, he opened not his mouth, a word. And when they spat upon him, and he knew he could call down 10,000, angels, John, he knew who he was, in the same capacity as he did with the crowds were shouting is me. And that's the kind of woman I want to be, you know, that's, that's the kind of woman he has rebuilt me to be, you know, that I, I want to be pleasing Him in my private life with my kids, as much as I am if, if I am on a stage somewhere sharing the story, like I don't want to be a different person in either place, you know? So, for that, I it's like that old him I wouldn't trade nothing for my journey now. You know?

Yeah. And your, your, your journey covers a lot more than just going through a divorce. You had some medical issues as well. Can you tell me a little bit about that? And then you're leading into your experience that you had in that? Was it the Dominican

that I went to the Dominican? That's right, and had an experience with the Lord? Yeah, I'm speaking of that, that's another identity issue. See, so I have been a leader in the health and wellness profession for years, and I've been a trainer have had boot camps, like all that kind of stuff. And so to then begin to experience health issues in my own body, it was yet another, you know, calling up and what is my identity in my physique is my identity and all these things, and there were parts of that that had to be burned away, you know, because I had walked my mom through breast cancer, I'm leading a boot camp in the community, and breast cancer comes knocking on my door, you know, and I'm lethargic. And I'm not as strong as I was, and my all you know, all this stuff. And so even in that I had to yet see another, Oh, am I identifying myself in this shaky ground that now needs to be, you know, strip that away so that you can be here unshakeable as well, you know what I mean? And so, so yeah, so I went through breast cancer, and I'm a sec to me, and then it came back. And in my lungs, and my clavicle, and my father, I had lost my father to cancer at 16. I have four sisters, and he was our coach. He was the big Deacon at the church loud and funny, and just the biggest personality in the room and everyone, you know, believed for his healing at to his death, and, and he ended up dying of lung cancer, and he was not a smoker. So, you know, to have that same, you know, type cancer, come knocking on my door, and the enemy really taunting me, you know, I talked about it in my book, like, that day with the oncologist said that I felt like, I could sense you know, like, the Grim Reaper, you know, cycle and everything in the room, like, yep, I took your father and I'm here to take you to, you know, yeah. And, um, and the irony was, you know, I had been at, that was probably one of the deep seated reasons why I was in the health profession, you know, was for that very reason, you know, like, Hey, I'm going to take precautions, and, you know, making sure this you know, because my aunt's had it, like a lot of people in my family. I never even knew my grandparents. And, you know, because of this despicable disease, and so. So I did all these things, you know, to try to prevent it. And here it is, you know, here it is. So, so, yeah, I remember that day, I felt like, the Grim Reaper was standing in the room when the oncologist gave the report. And that is when I heard the voice of Jesus, you know, because he's never remember. He, he had a conversation with Satan in the wilderness, you know, and it was Satan who fled from the words out of his mouth, you know? Yeah. So he's never afraid of Satan in the room, he just know that, when when the light is cut on, you know, darkness has to flee. You know, a lot of times we get caught up in cursing the darkness. There's a devil around every corner. And, and, and we get distracted, just put the light on,

you know, like me. Right? Right.

Right. Have you ever gone in a dark room, and you cut the light on? And like if there's a roach or whatever on the ground, like they go running, right like that. And if we just understood, if we would focus on being that bright light, you are the light of the world, right? And not focusing was just so dark. And there's a devil around every place. I don't want to give him that much credit. Yeah, turn the light on. You know,

that's funny that you bring that up. The other night, I was watching TV. And the it was one of these police crime dramas and the police characters are going into this warehouse, and they're just using their flashlights, and they're walking by the light switches. And somebody was I thought one of my family members said, Why don't they just lights on? It's like, Oh, yeah, that would be so much easier. Much easier.

perfect analogy. Yeah. perfect analogy. We get this little flashlight and we, you know, look at it, like, just cut the line, you know, in the darkness with. Yeah. And the same thing in our mind. If you take that internal, like, people with anxiety issues, depression is what you know, it's like, okay, really, if we can identify the lies real quick, that you're believing that is causing all this darkness, that the let's let's replace it with truth. And replacing those lies with truth is like cutting the light on. You know what I mean? That's how we're transformed by the renewing of our minds, you know, so that so it's a really powerful thing, you know, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. You know, and people you know, misquote that does that say, the truth will set you free. That's not what the Word says. It says it will make you afraid that it will make you free to walk in the truth that just set you free. You are it will make you free to continue in your bondage. You have the choice.

Yeah, that's good. That's enough. ago, you had a choice whenever you receive that diagnosis from the doctor that your cancer had to return. And you just you left off that story with Jesus. Tell me what happened.

That's right. So the Grim Reapers they're both staring me in the face. And John, Jesus, He is just, I remember it, like not like it was yesterday, like it was a minute ago. I mean, and I remember, Jesus walked in that room. And he just, he just walked up beside him. Like he didn't even like I have to acknowledge you. And he just looked, he looked at me in my spirit, okay, this is all going to my spare. I'm not some super spiritual person. Try to I'm just a normal flesh and blood homeschooling mama with a fat pig. Okay. He looks at me and my spirit, John. so intently, right next to the Grim Reaper.

He says, But who do you say that I am? Oh, wow.

Wow. my spine right there. I've heard that one before. I've read that one before. Really?

John, it like no sympathy in his voice. I knew his love for me surpassed sympathy. So sympathy has attached to it. He just didn't have any sympathy. That's all I'm going to say. Because he knew I'm coming on the scene. And I'm going to ask my daughter a question, because I already know her answer. And so just like you did, Peter, just like you did Peter. And Peter was set up, he was set up because Jesus knew the end from the beginning of Peters line. Right. So and of course, when Peter answers, you know, so for those of you that are listening, that may not read for our reference the story for you, Jesus, when he came and asked me that question, Who do you say that I am? He asked Peter, the same question. When the disciples were we're kind of bickering among themselves, like, your life. Yes, I'm saying, you know, like, and and Jesus just kind of sit back and listens to it. And then he says, But who do you say that I am? And he wasn't interested in what the naysayers are those people were saying. He wanted to know who his followers said he was he wanted to know, the ones closest to his heart, the ones he had invested his life in, you know, and so Peter pipes up and he says, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus replies, and he says, flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven. And on this revelation, this rock of Revelation, I will build my church. Now, the Catholics, I love, I love my Catholic. They think, oh, they did, you know, God built the church on Peter, you know, let's But no, he was, he was saying, This revelation, you're talking about Peter, this is what I will build my church on, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. He said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. And so when he asked me that question, I feel like what he was asking me was, who do you see me to be in say that I am in your situation. There was a he didn't come wrap his arm around my shoulder. He didn't do any of that, john, because Jesus is too busy making intercession for us to be worried about us, the King of kings and the Lord of lords who, you know, purchased our healing, who said those three gorgeous words, it is finished, you know, he comes on the scene to bring heaven to earth, you know, invites us to do the same, you know, to live from heaven to earth. And so, when he asked me that question, you know, I straightened up, because I had heard what the Grim Reaper had to say, See, but then I really heard what Jesus had to say. Yeah. And I, I straightened up. And the tears left my eyes. And the very next thought I had was, this is going to be a great line in my book one day.

You knew that God was going to heal you.

Yeah. When he asked me that question. Yes. Yeah.

Because it was Tell me about that. Tell me about how Jesus healed you.

Yeah, yeah. So so we left that my girlfriends were with me. My very powerhouse girlfriends. By the way, I always tell people don't don't. Don't go into the enemy's camp without you know, your posse around. ZSM.

Very good advice. Very good advice. Very

true. So, so we just went out laughing. And I just was like, Okay, I mean, this is what he's asked me to say. Now, of course, we have this treasure in earthen vessels, right. So I still had some dark days upon me, you know, some scary days. And I write about that, in my book, I write about fear. So the whole book is not just about my cancer journey, it's about a life journey, you know, living life's ups and downs through heavens lives, you know, disappointment, you know, discouragement, all that kind of stuff. And so, so I, the PET scan, had another PET scan, it was super scary, and, you know, lots of stuff, lighting up. And I decided to go out of the country and see a doctor friend of mine and more holistic doctor friend of mine. And so while I'm visiting with her, and I kind of showed her the PET scans and all that, but I could even say see that she was rattled, and I put a lot of my trust it. She's amazing. She's amazing. But you know, it was a gloom. I mean, it, it was not a good report. And so that kind of shook my cage a little bit. And so I just, I just remember just getting away with the Lord. And late in the night. It was one of my last couple nights there. And I just, I just in the middle of the night, I just went out by the bowl, and put on like some soaking worship music. And I just said, Lord, I have to hear from you. You know, I was just having a very real conversation with him. Like, apart from the freakout apart from the tears of you know, I want to see my children grow up. I, this is not the end for me, you,

you older the children at the time.

So let's say they're 13 and 14 now, so

Gosh, 11 and 12.
Oh, okay.

11 to 12. So

maybe 10 1111 or 12, or 15 months apart. So I just was like, this cannot This is not the end of my story. I know. It's not like there's too much in here. I know it's not. And I kind of felt like David, you know, I kind of have a conversation with there were David said, you know, what good will my bones do from the grave? You know, he was like, you know, but what is it? You know, so Lord is not afraid of our real conversations with him, you know, a lot of times, we we don't need to be afraid to have those conversations with the one who has formed us in our mother's womb, you know, and we might as well have the honest conversation and give him an opportunity to speak back. So, so I just was like, you know, God, what, what's the deal? You know, like, I, am I going to live or am I going to die? You know, and, and I had done, you know, when you're in a desperate situation like that, like, of course, john went back like, okay, who am I not forgiven? You know, who, who what's the you know, and then I read all the books on Okay, breast cancer means that you have this relationship disconnect, or like, whatever, like all this stuff. I, you know, I gone through it all like, Okay, I'm gonna forgive these people, deliverance, like, all all this stuff, okay. And I'm not saying not to do that. I'm just giving you my story. Right, right. So I'm before the Lord after doing all that. And I feel the newness of Jesus, come just like I did that day in that room, John. And I remember walking back and forth by the pool in the middle of the night. rehearsing. You know, every did I asked him to forgive that sin? Or what about that mistake? Or what about you know, like, because here's the deal. And I, I make no, I realized that

there's no shame in my story. And so, you know, when you go through such her trauma and hurt, you can act out in ways that are absolutely not you. And what happens is, you have these holes, and these things have deep hurt and pain. And it's like a wounded animal, okay, if you, if you try to go help them, and they just cry on it, or try to bite you, right, or whatever, they don't know, you're trying to help them, okay? They just know they're in pain. And so when we do not take our pain to Jesus, when we do not allow ourselves to get help to be transparent, to be honest about the things that we're carrying, and trust that Jesus will be enough, when we do not do that, we are the flesh will find a way out, it will find a way for that pain to get out, whether it's through sin, whether it's the stupid choices, whether it's through whatever, it will find a way to get out. Okay. And so that is why it's so important that I talked about book like grieving properly, you know, when like, going through these things, partnering with the Holy Spirit, Hey, that was not okay. In my life, you know, they're sexually abused, if you will. That was not okay. You know, you cannot live with an elephant in the room. And what will happen is the Holy Spirit and his kindness and his love, we talked about it earlier, he does not want to put a flashlight on that. He wants to flip the light on and heal you. Because if you if you don't allow the healing process, and the comforting process of the Lord. Then on the other side of that are new beginnings. On the other side of that you can dream again, all that kind of stuff when I went through that divorce. While I was like, dream again. People got what what are your dreams? What are your aspirations? Like? I don't even know. I was like, I dream. I couldn't see any of that. And it's so true when they like the Israelites is that when they were taken into captivity, they hung their hearts on the willow trees. Okay, they hung their hearts when they were taken into captivity. They didn't see any way out. They hung their hearts on the willow trees. And those harps that signified like their new song, their their dreams, their worship before the Lord their joy. But they hung them on the willow tree, because they saw no hope they were in captivity. But this what happens later. In Isaiah, it says, but when the Lord restored the captivity of Zion, we were as those who what dreamed in that great the dream again, again, yeah, skip, skip. So I'm, I'm here in this place, and I'm rehearsing all of this, like, maybe, maybe I have this cancer because of that, or that, or of my ancestral line, or maybe there's a curse on me or whatever, you know, all that stuff. I'm sorry, John is just true. It's just a big fat lie. And when you focus on that stuff, and you is I'm not saying you don't address things that the Holy Spirit is partnering with you to address. But when you get over here into con, are making your healing about you, you diminish the work on the cross, you diminish the work on the cross, and we must keep our magnifying glass on Jesus, the author and the finisher of our faith. Because the story of Lazarus tells us this truth, like nothing else. How much faith did it take for Lazarus to be raised from the dead? None. He was dead. Okay. You know, so there is this beautiful place, that I think that the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit wants us to live in. We're in Him, we live, we move. And we have RB. John, I'll tell you right now make no bones about it. I can't breathe without him. I can't think straight without him. I can't Motherwell without him. I can't do any apart from him. I can do nothing. I agree with my brother Paul. And so. So this part so important to me, because I feel like it's a real revelation, I begin to rehearse my own sin, I are not even just sin, like, mistakes, or this or blame or that, you know, making healing about me. And I will never forget that night, John.

Jesus, I, it was like, he sat there like twiddling his thumbs on the I mean, his fingers on the pool deck like you done. And I mean, he just let me, I just paced back and forth, rehearsing my own mental prison, when he knew he had opened the door long time ago. And he just let me work through it, john. And I got to the end.

And I felt him say, Are you done?

And I was like, Oh, baby, is it this person or this person? All these things that I had already dealt with John, that were already under the blood. And this is what it says that Abigail,

I forgave you of all those things a long time ago. Perhaps the person you need to forgive is you. He said, forgive you, Abigail, because I have nothing to do with this. And that was so great, john, because in his kindness, he didn't partner with me in it. He didn't like come alongside me and try to consult No, he, in his love, like a loving father stood outside that prison, because he knew the door was open. And it was like I was sitting inside of prison. That was had been locked the whole time. Yeah. So it was, it was amazing. And I walked out of that prison, let go of that stinking thinking, took out the mental garbage. And he just waited. He let me do it. He waited till I was done. He told me what he had to say. And I believed him. And he's that I actually like to take a walk with you. I come to take a walk with you. And I mean, he literally had nothing. It was like I was speaking another language. He couldn't even speak when I went through all that mental garbage. Because he can't, he can't because he is cast are set as far as the east is from the west. If we just get in the Pauline epistles and really sit there for a while. He who knew no sin became sin, that we would be the righteousness of God in Christ. He can't there's never an ad God can never be mad at us. If God cannot you can experience the emotion of anger toward us, again, that ruffles every religious feather in the room. Because they have more faith for their sin, then they do for to be righteous before you you know. And so. So when I when he showed me this, John, I was like, What am I doing? Do I think that I'm going to be healed by by a clean slate or by perfection? or What am I doing? I am, I am blasphemy the blood of Jesus right now. I like that sounds harsh. But John, it's kind of what I was. I my focus was, by his stripes, we are healed. He was wounded for our transgressions. He was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement for our peace was upon him and by his wounds, we work, we're pastors were heal. And so he stood there in that truth in his fullness, and waited, waited for me to free myself. He didn't need to free me he already had. You see, for me to free myself from what he had already done. Yeah, so he didn't walk in that prison. He didn't walk in that prison to pull me out. He stood on the outside of it, waiting for me to come out. You see? Yeah. So that is what he said, let's take a walk.

And what happened when he when you came out?

Yeah. So I came out. And I know, I probably sat in that truth for a second. But I think it's so important because as a counselor, I deal with this all the time. So I come out of the prison. And in this mental prison, of course, and he says, Let's take a walk. And he seemed kind of antsy to take this walk. It was really precious. Like, I'm here to take a walk. I don't know what you're doing. But I'm here to take a walk. So we began to walk together. And I had like, an open vision. Okay, again, I know super spiritual person. It's just like we're talking explain

what an open vision is. So

okay, this is in simple, childlike terms. Okay, that helps. Yeah, I'm not a theologian.

So to me, my experience of an open vision is when I could be doing something else, like talking to you. And Jesus could show me something, but I'm still very aware that I'm talking to you. That makes sense. So it's like it. It's not like I'm taken away from our conversation into some sort of trance or something. I'm having an open vision, you know, like, in my life, as it is right now. So, so I'm very, I'm still very aware of my natural surroundings, but yet I'm taking a walk with Jesus. Does that make sense?

Okay, I think okay,

so. So, all of a sudden, I'm walking with Him. And I noticed that the terrain changes. So the terrain changes to this dusty type, Road Type ground, you know, and instantly I recognize where we were, because I had done a study tour to Israel in college. Okay. Okay. And so all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, we're in Israel, like, whoa. So we begin walking. He's like, he's like, I want to show you something, Abigail. So we walk up to the cross, John, now, this is what was so neat. Jesus is standing beside me, but he's also on the cross. So he, he looks up and he says, Abigail, you have always been so great about

believing what my blood

has done in your life, you know, believing that he's like, but there's more, there's more than I want to show you. And so we walk past a cross, and we walk to the entrance of the tomb. And I'm standing there with him. And he says, but yet he's laying in the two. He's laying on the slab and the two. And he says, Do you see me laying there? And I said, Yes, Jesus, I do. And he said, watch this. And he sits up. And he says, Did you see me sit up? And I'm like, like you so kind, just very this childlike to me, because that's really my heart. And I said, Yeah, I Yes, Jesus, I saw you. I saw you said, he said, Abigail, when I set up, you set up. And then he swung his legs around, and he stood up. And he said, Did you see me stand up? I said, Yes, Jesus, I did. You said Abigail, when I stood up, you stood up. And he walked to the entrance of the tomb. And I'll never forget it, john. He looked at me over his left shoulder. And he said, I'm about to walk out of this to release that Abigail, was there cancer and my lungs when I walked out of the two? And I said, No, Jesus, there was not. And he said, so does there have to be cancer in your lungs? And I said, No, no, there does it. And he said, was I depressed? When I walked out? And I said, No, Jesus C word. He said, Does anyone have to suffer from depression? And I said, No, No, they don't. And that was it. The vision ended. And I stood there with all the truth of Romans 811 being squeezed to every gorgeous drop. The same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead dwells inside of us, and quickens our mortal body. You can execute that till the cows come home, but it means just that, yeah, are allegedly body. You know, he is still the healing Jesus that he's always been. And so I stood there with this full knowing. I'm healed. Like, I know, I'm right back at the pool. I'm right there. I mean, but it's time The sun is coming up, and there's some roosters over there crowing. And I'm like, I knew John, I thought, take a PET scan right now because I, I'm healed. I'm cancer free. So

what happened when you did take a PET scan?

I traveled home, had a PET scan, and everything had gone. Everything was disappeared. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

What are the doctors say? What are the nurses?

I know. So the nurse calls me because I come home. And very shortly after I had a scan, and the morning of the PET scan, I woke up, and I heard the Lord say, to me, this is the glory scan. Like, okay, you know, so this is a CT scan. And they're real kind to me, they'll call me very quickly after the scans. And so, I have a skin that morning, knowing I would get a call in the afternoon. I'm sitting in the homeschool carpool line to get the kid and the phone rings. And the nurses a little like fumbling over her words. And like, I'm not sure I'm not sure what's going on here. Like I I, I there's there's nothing here. There's There's your numbers are normal there, the activity is gone. Like there's, there's nothing here. And I just, I just felt John and that carpool line just just me in the Lord. You know, I felt like party streamers were off in heaven around me. Like just like, let's celebrate, you know, let's write, you know,

your, your previous scan. What did that look like? What was that? Wow. Cuz that's that was a drastic change.

Yes, it was I sent you those at one time.

Right, right,

you know, had highlighted like, Hey, here's Goliath and Goliath was taken down. And so these scans had progressively from the first tumor they found, which was very, very large, they said it was one of the largest they'd ever seen in a woman, my age. The the numbers, the activity had just, like gotten bigger and bigger and bigger. And just all over the scans. This is, you know, highly suspicious for metastatic spread. This is highly, you know, and then the, the, especially the one in the lung, you know, the lip knows there that, you know, the whole lip note thing itself was super scary, right? Because if you've ever had a level of cancer, I know if they find a spot and they cut it out, and it's like, Oh, great. Yeah, it's out. But the scariest thing someone can hear that's got the cancer is, hey, the cancer has now traveled to your lymph nodes. Because the lymph nodes are the pathway to the body right now. Which brings

years for years were full of cancer.

Yeah. So there was like Lyft out here limped out here live here. You know.

So there was cancer all through the PET scan before? Oh, yeah. And Jesus healed? And there was none.

Yeah. Mm hmm. Right.

That is hard to wrap our brains around at times. We look at facts and we look at statistics and we say, this is the way it is, this is the way that has to be and yes, so believe by faith that God can heal. But you know, I've I've seen some friends passed away through cancer, and we believed and we, we were trusting God through that, and I don't understand why God heals some and takes others home to be with him. I'm glad that he, he healed you. And there's you have a new lease on life. I know. But it's amazing that know that God does heal, and God is beyond the facts.

Yeah, yeah, he operates truth. You know, he really does John, and I think it's, it's, it's not just a thing of,

I'm so grateful that he has healed me. And I walk in that every time I get a PET scan, I get my PET scans, I get them every six months I do I do diligence, you know. And along the way, you know, there's been moments that I've had to speak truth to fear or whatever. But what I've learned, honestly, as important, as my healing, John, is to hear the conversation in heaven. I'm telling you that, that one thing, if I had to point to one thing that has been life changing for me, is the Holy Spirit inviting me into a place to train my ears to hear what heaven is saying over my circumstance. So that that to me, I am as grateful for my healing as I am that John, because that is what we all can take with us. Right? Like, this is this is what I'm saying. But what do you say that's how a life to live. That's how these prophets lived. And it's, they're not superhuman people, we we are invited in through the presence and the fullness of the Holy Spirit to live that same life, you know.

Now, Abigail, you've answered a lot of my questions, to say, but one of the questions that I like to ask is, if you could talk to yourself in the past, what version of yourself Would you talk to? Like? What's the stage in your life that you would like to go back and give yourself advice for?

Oh, that is such a great question. Such a great question. You know, I think it would probably be those years

were, my children were super young. And we were in the ministry and where I needed, I really needed to see Jesus very present in my circumstance, and not be so worried about what was next. Right, and what was ahead and to be so very present in the moment. And I'll give you an example. When Lily, my youngest, we, the church was in the home. And you know, I'm preaching and teaching and have these gifts, things and I just want to get it out there and let the whole world know about wonderful Jesus. But you know what, that wasn't my season. My season was to be mom, and I was a great mom. But I was a bit distracted, you know? And, well, what's what's the next thing for ministry and data, and I remember, we were having a meeting, and there was like a great speaker and all this amazing spiritual stuff was going on. And Lily was with the gal who so wonderfully helped me with her during church and stuff. Emily was just crying and she wanted me and she wanted me and I went to her and, you know, I had to change her diaper. And I remember laying her on the changing table and changing her diaper in wildly loving her right? But having this frustration like, you know, I want to be out in the meeting. Why am I back? I want to be out of a meeting. And I remember John the Holy Spirit saying to me, as I'm changing her until this becomes your pulpit. I will never give you another one

Okay, wow.

John, that's what I would say. Like, chill the freak out. Like, let me know thank God thank God I heard him say that John and I thank God I learned that lesson early Okay, I I thank God I don't have to undo years of damage I thank God these people by Kimberly you know you're in Buckhead in your trainer Dennis now your homeschool your kids, John. no place I'd rather be God opens doors of ministry now that my kids, you met my son, you know, they get to travel with me. That's beautiful. I would say something. If my children don't see Jesus in me, I will have failed. I don't care. anybody thinks about that statement. I will have failed. Can I get David said David said King David, I will walk about in my house with a perfect heart. You know, if we can't live a gospel message in our house, you better shut down everything outside that house until you get it right within your house.

Right. Africa, what's the life first that you hold on to? You try to pattern your life after?

John that?

I know it's hard to pick just one.

Oh, man. Are you kidding me? All right, let's see. Let's see. Oh, my goodness, oh, my goodness. Okay. Here's one of many of many.

Okay, good, good.

Okay. One thing have I desired of the Lord, and that will I seek after that I may dwell in the house of the Lord, all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord, and to inquire in his temple, you know, that just to win, it be an amazing thing, if we perpetually live in a state of beholding the beauty of the Lord. And in the reflection of that state, that others could behold His beauty upon us and within us. Right.

That's so good. We're coming to come to a close soon. But I got some more questions what I want, because I want to, I've enjoyed your story, hearing it again. And I hope those of those people that are listening to this podcast, enjoy it as well. But having a What advice can you give me with dealing with some with, you've gone through some detours in your life? things that weren't planned? Obviously? Could you give me a nugget of wisdom to help me with the next tour that I'm going to face?

And it's gonna seem real simple, but here it is my friend,

all right? Shoot,

Heaven has a GPS, that can also declare rerouting your routing. In those times, there is no mess up there is no pit too deep, there is no, there is nothing, that the GPS of having cannot say, re routing in our lives, you know, and that we would just trust him. He can really take what feels like a pile of ashes, and make something real beautiful out of it. You know,

that's great. I love that. God never gives up on us. And there's always a way to get back onto his his path. Absolutely. That's one of the things I love about hearing people's stories and to see how God has walked with you. And I appreciate that you kind of pointed out those times where Jesus where you saw that Jesus was walking with you along the way, you didn't have to necessarily look back and say, Oh, I missed it, you have the benefit of in a lot of those cases that you brought up that Jesus was actually right there with you, and you saw it through open visions or through your spiritual eyes. So, Abigail, what advice would you give to me about applying God's revelation to my daily life?

You know, john, I would say, well, you do that so well, my friend. So I'm just getting that, you know, add more to the hate, please, already exists in your life. I would say just see him in the small things, see him, what appears to be mundane, in your life, see him in the big things, really, really look for him. In those small things. You know, the prophet, an earthquake was sent by God. But God was not in the earthquake. My strong wind was sent by God, the God was not in the wind, and on and on, and then a still small voice. And the Prophet wraps himself in his mantle. It is covering in what would signify our identity in Christ. And he goes, and he listens to what the Lord has to say. So I would say just to see him, stop trying to skip over your everyday life, because he is in your every day in live, and we move and we have our be, you know, there's no like, let me leap over this part of my life so I can get to what God has. For me, that was the biggest lie, I believe, John, what God has for me is to live within him is to dwell daily in his presence is to have enough of him to not lose it with my kids is to hear him his voice that says, hey, put your phone down, and go crawl in the bed with your daughter. Because she needs you right now. You know, like, see Him, obey Him, experience Him in the small and mundane things of your life, because they are anything but that.

Yeah, absolutely. And I also want to ask, what's a book that you would recommend? To me that would impact my life?

Okay, well, you know, it was my grandma who said it is a poor rooster, he will not grow for his own barnyard. So

there you go.

Okay, humbly, but yet consequently, what I would recommend to you john, is actually I know the author of my book called The conversation in heaven. You said

of course I did. Of course I did. And it is it is a good book. I need to spend some time actually reading through the whole thing I skim through it as you know in preparation for you to be with us but you really do break down the A lot of what we talked about in during this podcast interview that story of what happened in the doctor's office and the story of what happened in the in the Dominican of walking with Jesus getting up with him and I don't think our forget whenever you whenever I first heard you say that it's one thing to read it something to hear you say it and it just, it still brings chills down my spine to know that when Jesus got up, we got up to and because Christ is in us. And so I appreciate your story so much. And thank you so much for sharing. And I promised that we would talk about jump ology Can you give me a commercial for for what you're doing now? Because I don't want to. I wrote that down. I'm like, Oh, no, I almost missed that. Apology what God's doing with you now?

Yeah, super quick. So when I was talking to you guys about the lymph nodes, and a scariest thing to hear, you know, I wrote a chapter my book called, make sure you bring a basket to your Valley. Because remember, he's a great Redeemer. Okay, he doesn't waste anything. So in that valley of the shadow of death, where I learned to fear no evil, and you will, too. It's, I call it for lack of better terms like, heaven set you up for this divine Easter egg hunt. Okay, right. Okay, hidden treasures everywhere for you. And one of those treasures for me was the discovery of what is now one of my company's called jump ology. Rebound exercise. Okay, the, that unassuming trampoline in your backyard, okay, or that I had jumped on all my life that I had used as my training tool for most of my competitions. And, you know, never told anybody because it was my secret sauce. Little did I know, that was cleanse is the most effective way to cleanse your lymphatic system, you have almost twice as much lip fluid as you do blood.

Really?

Yes, it's wild. John, look it up. It's crazy. Awesome. And so that think about it, when someone's told your disease has spread to the lymph nodes. That's what everyone breaks out. Because the lip goes it's like, it's like you went off the exit and you move on to 25. It's the highway is the pathway in our body for but then but but then they don't tell you how to cleanse your lymphatic system. Okay. And so one of the most effective ways you can do it is jumping on a trampoline, because of the the gravitational pull the G force, okay. And so what happens is, our lymph system is linear, okay. And so it has valves at the top and bows at the bottom, it has no pump of its own, like the heart. So the best way, jumping up and down using gravity to pump out that junk, is through jumping is through rebounding. And let me tell you who knows best about this is NASA. NASA puts their astronauts on rebounders when they come out of space, because it is the quickest thing to build back their bone and muscle mass. Wow. Yep. So all these years of fitness training, and even during my recovery, I talked about it in my book, is my mini trampoline was now in the corner of my living room housing, my laundry is obvious, I'm recovering. And, and the Lord of his kindness. He's so brilliant. He kept drawing me to research the rebounder. And I was like, What is it about the rebounder and I just kept being like, just drawn to the rebounder, obviously, knowing I couldn't jump. And I thought the Holy Spirit said, Why don't you research? That little piece of equipment that you've used for all these years? John, I began to research it and I was like, well, I found medical journals. Rebound exercise the cancer answer. Never be sick again, by rebounding. I mean, Dr. Josh Axe, Tony Robbins, Chris Warnock, my good friend, Chris workers, Phil. Yeah, he's great. He's awesome. But good friend. He doesn't realize it. Yeah, yeah. Yes. He was on the day after me. That's right. We were Yeah, yeah. And so you would not believe Ronald Reagan, Ronald Reagan. He said, If you hear something on the floor of the whatever floor of the White House, it's me on my rebounder. That's a quote from him. I kid you not. And so it's like, it's everywhere. What rebound exercise does. So now. Okay, I have this really neat company called job ology, so jump, ology has partnered with girl Pope to become an entire nonprofit. And we'd love you guys to go check us out. We're raising money, actually, we're doing a campaign right now. to, to not have to be driven by, you know, having investors and all that kind of stuff. But to be able to really share this benefit with the world who you know, online streaming and all this stuff. So we're about it. Okay, so you find that by going to girl of hope.com. And clicking you can see all about there you can book a hope session with me. But you can see the jump ology tab and now we have a Facebook page. That's called jump balls and girl of hope. And you can read you can listen to the campaign we'd love you to give if you if you is a tax deductible contribution. But we're now working on being a permanent home base within the walls of Pinewood forest. And Pinewood Boris is a gorgeous development right here in Tyrone outside of Atlanta that Dan Cathy and chip fillet have put together and so anyway, it's super neat and that way jump ology and girl of hope will have their home right there. And we can stream videos, we want to stream into homes of kids, okay, that are suffering from a DD ADHD, depression, all that it works on the frontal lobe of the brain to help alleviate that. It's amazing, Jonas amazing.

So I'm going to make sure that I put that information in the show notes. And can we get your book of the conversation in heaven? How do we get that?

Yes, so you can find it on Amazon, the conversation in heaven and living life's ups and downs through Heaven's lens. You can also go to my website girl of hope, calm, we love you go on Amazon. And if it touches you write a review that always helps and helps get the word out. So

yeah, very cool. Well, thank you so much, Abigail, for spending some time with me, and to share your story along the way.

Oh, John, it is totally been my privilege. Thank you for having me on.

You know, when I'm working on these episodes of along the way, sometimes I have a few interviews already recorded, and I pray about which ones to complete into an episode next. What always amazes me is that when I start editing, no matter how much time has elapsed since the interview happened, it seems to be just what I need to hear. right then. As I am working on each episode, I am letting God speak to me through what the guests say all over again. This episode with Abigail hope Jennings came at just the right time for me, I've been dealing was some anxiety and depression recently. So when she said that we need to identify the lies and replace it with truth. That's exactly what I needed to hear. I took her advice, and I started identifying the lies that I was listening to. And I was letting those lies be louder than the conversation in heaven about my life. A mentor of mine challenged me to write down a list of what I am grateful for, that helped me replace the lies with the truth. And things started to change for me. I realized that I had been trying to skip over everyday life and because my goals aren't happening quite the way I want them to. I was actually feeding into my anxiety. Abigail mentioned the verse from Psalm 27 verse for one thing I have desired of the Lord, that will I seek, that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord and to inquire in his temple. That challenges me quite a bit. Is my one thing that I desire the Lord? Or is it my own goals and aspirations? When I take my focus off the Lord, I need to be reminded of verses like Exodus 14, verse 14, the Lord himself will fight for you just stay calm. In other translations, it says, stay still keep still remain silent, or my favorite, hold your peace. I kind of imagine peace is something that you hold on to with your hands and protect it from things that are trying to steal your peace. Holding your peace is an active command. It's not passive. But it definitely requires trust in the Lord. When Abigail talked about her vision of Jesus standing in her open cell door, and asking her Are you done yet? That hit me more directly now than it did when Abigail and I first talked? What am I doing that Jesus is standing by my cell door and asking me, John, are you done yet? Is it complaining, worry, anger, fear, frustration, the list goes on. There is so much that Jesus has given us and he has given us away into freedom. But we sit in our own filth because we don't think we can get out. My question to you. Are you done yet? When Jesus got up, I got up, you can get up to. Jesus says, Take my yoke upon you, For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Why is it easy? It's because Jesus is the one carrying the weight. The more we try to take control back, the longer the process takes. I encourage myself and you to take a walk with Jesus today. Just a reminder that Abigail has an audio book to give away to someone who will email me at John along the way at gmail. com. With your along the way moment from this up episode. Please include your name and where you're listening from. Thank you for listening to along the way. If you've enjoyed joining me along my way, please rate and subscribe to this podcast and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and at my website along the way dot media. You can also email me at John along the way@gmail.com I pray that you've enjoyed this part of my journey and made you realize when Jesus is walking with you along your way