“Searching for Shiny Objects” - Shaun Tabatt AlongTheWay 87

That's not easy. It's like, you know, you can read about it, you can see it on a film, you can see it happen in person. But until it actually happens to you, you're like a guy standing on the outside of the aquarium looking in or you're like a guy at the zoo looking inside the cage. And once you get thrown into the aquarium or the cage and you experienced that, then you have to deal with it.

Welcome to along the way. I'm John Matarazzo. Your host and fellow traveler, thank you for joining me along my way is trying to become more like Jesus every day. Today I'm joined by my friend and fellow podcaster, Sean tabet, of the Sean tabet show, Sean has been podcasting for around eight or nine years, and I have personally benefited from his podcast. You see, he is the producer of a TV show that features a lot of guests. I'm always researching the people who are going to be on my program. And for a while, it seemed like every time I was investigating a new guest, Shawn's podcast was the best source for my search. Despite not actually meeting in person yet. Over the years, we've become friends. And so I'm very glad to be able to share his story with you today. I'll get to our conversation in just a moment. But as always, I want to thank you for listening to along the way. I hope that you like what you hear and you subscribe, please rate and review along the way on Apple podcast or wherever you're listening. All of my socials and contact links are in the show notes. And you can check out all of my episodes and join my email list at my website along the way dot media, I would love to hear from you. I also have the Patreon page, if you would like to help me to continue to put out these along the way episodes. If you'd like to become a Patreon supporter, simply go to patreon.com slash along the way and select a level. The link to become a supporter is in my show notes. And now here's my along the way conversation with Sean tabin. Welcome to along the way, on John Matarazzo. And we are here with Sean tabet of the Shawn tabet show. And Shawn and I have been kind of virtual friends for a couple years now. He's a fellow podcaster. And there's been plenty of times where I have used his podcast as a resource to help me prepare for my TV show. And so I am forever grateful for that. And but Shawn and I, we've we've just connected talking about podcasting. And we've said we should actually interview each other. And so this is my time where I'm talking with him and I want to hear his story. So Shawn, welcome to along the way.

Well, john, it is truly an honor to be on your show. As a guy who knows all the crazy that goes into podcasting, I always appreciate the craft, when I'm on this side of the microphones. I know you work as hard as I do to make great conversations happen with the guests that you have. And it's fun that you and I finally are getting to a more personal level, we've been kind of circling each other for years kind of bumping into each other in terms of PR and podcast interview stuff. And so I'm glad God's opened up a door for this friendship to develop where we can collaborate more intentionally.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, as I was thinking about this interview, you know, I found that as I'm talking and meeting more and more podcasters, I just find that podcasters are some of the most friendly and helpful people. And it's just been a blessing to be able to glean off of your experience, and to kind of learn from some of the tricks and tips that you've suggested for me. So I appreciate that. But I really want to hear your story. Because as I've gotten to know you, little bits here and there. You work in publishing, and different venues and different arenas of that new fit. You've kind of had a journey with that. And God's moved you from place to place. And then you started a podcast and that podcast has opened up doors for you. And I think that's really, really cool. So and plus you're you're married, and I'll let you tell about your family and and stuff like that, because that's definitely going to draw people's attention. So but yeah, I'd like to hear your story of how God has led you into ministry and where you are today.

Yeah, man. That's a long story. So I'll try to give you the 10,000 flyover. Sure I grew up in a single parent home, so never had a dad around at all, although my dad and I did reconnect for a time. But at the same time, my wife and I got married. So there's a closure piece to that part of my story, but have been in church had been in church as long as I can remember I remember going to Sunday school like elementary age and so definitely church my whole life, in terms of like a personal commitment to Christ. I remember watching a Billy Graham crusade on TV at age 13. And I don't remember what he said, but it really tugged on the heartstrings and I look at that as kind of my conversion phase or when faith started to take on a different level of meaning. For me, I had aspirations of becoming a pastor actually. So I did probably two thirds of a pre seminary track at Concordia University. When I was in college, then I met a Baptist girl. I'd grown up Lutheran met a Baptist girl got married to her and took a total redirect where I started working in software and tech I was I've always been kind of a tech geek forever and so I started working at a software company and And then ended up finishing my degree in management and network administration with a second major in Christian studies because I had so many credits under my bio.

That's quite the diversity in study there.

Yeah, they don't always go hand in hand. But I found a way to try to make it fit. And then moved down to Florida for a bit work with a great buddy of mine and his brother doing like on site tech support, I felt like I still had an itch to try to do ministry become a professor, I didn't know what exactly. And so I did go to Wheaton College for a year and their exit Jesus master's program, I worked at Christianity Today, interestingly enough, while I was living there, and decided that trying to have a family a full time job and do grad school was really just a dumb idea. I just didn't have enough hours in the day. And then really just spent the next like, seven, eight years just in software in tech, it was a space I loved and, you know, earned a lot of money and all that comes with it, but reached a point in my career where I was pretty burnt out. And I was in my early 30s, making more money than I thought I'd ever make and hated my job. And so God just reminded me that I love publishing. And so I jumped ship, I would recommend having a better plan before you just jump ship. But well, you know, live and learn, right, I did some consulting in the Christian publishing space for about two, three years. And then over the past seven, eight years, I've actually worked for three different trade publishers. So I worked for fortress press for a time, I was at Baker Publishing Group for between five and six years, somewhere in there. And then more recently switched over to Nora Media Group on the destiny image team. And I've been there for a little over a year and a half, I think, at this point. So. So yeah, married, my wife, and I have 10 kids, which is kind of crazy. I met my wife working at a Christian bookstore. So in terms of books and stuff that's always been a love of mine. What's interesting for me, though, in this phase of life, I got into podcasting because I was sick of doing book reviews. So like, when I was done at Wheaton, I was like, I really need to find a way to keep reading and writing. So as I got like, crazy into the book review scene when that was popular, and then I got really bored with that, like, I don't do podcasting, because you know, that's easier. Well, it's not really easier.

It's just different.

Yeah, you know, and I've been podcasting for 910 years at this point, have done somewhere between 800 and some interviews, I lost count at this point. And I will say podcasting has opened the most doors of anything I've done in the past decade in terms of relationships and job opportunities. And, you know, I think for me, part of the interest in and when I had academic aspirations was to be an academic who would have access to cool people that have faith discussions, and ironically, as a podcast are just given how prevalent podcasting is as a medium for sharing and talking these days, you and I have better access to the who's who of the academic or writing world, more so than the average professor or the average pastor. So I was able to realize that aspect of my dream there, certainly in the podcasting space. And then probably the other thing I would say, just to wrap this phase of the conversation up, you know, I had always had aspirations to be in ministry. And with the work I do in publishing, I am a pastor, so to speak to authors and leaders. So behind the scenes, you know, we're fellowshipping, and encouraging and praying with and all the stuff that comes working to bring projects to fruition and just helping people see things through to the finish line. So it was a very roundabout way to kind of answer a ministry call. But yet, that is an aspect of what we do with acquisitions and marketing, and just being in relationship with all the authors and leaders that we work with. So a very windy answer to your question.

That's a great answer, though, because, you know, I find it very interesting that, you know, God places those desires, God puts the desires of our heart in us. And he gives us those and it's not just that he gives us what we what our heart's desire, he actually places those in us because he has a plan, and he has a purpose. And he wants to get us to somewhere where we're going to find fulfillment. And I find it really interesting what you just brought up at the at the end of that little segment there where you had this desire. But God took you on a totally circuitous route to get there, and you're having more fun with it. Now, then, I think you you originally anticipated if you would have gone on your own plan and your own path. And that's really, really cool. But I love that you started your podcast, not by accident, but because you enjoyed some aspect that you were doing with the book reviews. But then you just took it a different way with the things that you enjoyed. And then you turn it into something you've repurposed it for, for God's kingdom in a different way. What were those book reviews like and how was that changed from book review to podcasting?

Um, you know, I think honestly, book reviews was a way to get free books back then I was like, I like to read and I just don't want to pay for all these great books.

So you're just writing the reviews though. Where you just Yeah,

yep. Yep. So just back when blogging was a thing. I know some of my friends still blog regularly and if that gets you excited, touches your audience keep on going. I don't do that much at all these days. But it was really just a way to keep engaging with books and keep my hand at some writing and a way to still interact with authors a little bit sometimes and just kind of serve, serve the publishing industry, if you will. And the whole podcasting piece was just a pivot to try to serve in a different way. I remember I remember going to icrs back when that existed. And I think it was 2013 in St. Louis, what is icrs International Christian retail show, I think it's completely dead at this point. they renamed it a few times, and it sort of faded. But I remember going back in 2013, and I think I did 18 interviews at that show for my podcast. But even back in 2013, people don't know what a podcast even was. And so it was really interesting. So this is a podcast, how do I find it? Where do I listen to this? And so it's just funny to see how much podcasting has changed in just like seven, eight years, where now they're everywhere on every device. But as recent as six, seven years ago, three fourths or more of the population didn't even know what a podcast even was. And so, yeah, it's, I guess the other thing I would say, to in terms of, you know, per my craft, what I do I, you know, I work in acquisitions, I work in Marketing, in my job, and, you know, interviewing other authors seeing how I'm pitched seeing the press materials, I get to know all the aspects that tie into podcasting, it allows me to be better at what I do. It allows me to see what the competition is doing. Because, you know, I'm vying for attention on your podcast and other shows, just like, people are vying to get my attention. And so it keeps me sharp, it helps me see what's happening in the marketplace. And then I'm just a very relational person. And so some of my best friends in the whole wide world I've met through podcasting. And then, in terms of just being part of the publishing community, I'm sure you've experienced this too. You meet people, and you guys keep bumping into each other. And those relationships open up other doors. And so yeah, I didn't think podcasting would change my life like it has. Yet it consumes an awful lot of my time, these days, ironically. So it's kind of a blessing and a curse, because I'm so crazy passionate about it. But I do have to spend time with the wife and kids too. Otherwise, they feel neglected.

Right. And so you know, spreading around some of that time with 10. Kids, we can't just gloss over the fact that you said there's 10 kids, that's double digits, people. So how do you manage that? You know, how do you manage being a father to 10 kids while doing this? Perfect. I mean, you're working in your home and a lot of places, that's where your studio is. So that's, that's pretty helpful. But how have you been able to manage those things?

Well, first, you have to have a saintly wife who's super passionate about being a mom, um, that does help. Well, my wife and I got married, she said, she wanted six kids. And we ended up being overachievers. And so we have 10 kids now. But she's out. She always wanted to be a stay at home, Mom and homeschool and all of that. And so, you know, that certainly makes a difference in terms of our house will be functional. Because she's living what she saw is kind of her calling or her her dream for the season that we're still in. I've worked at home on and off throughout my career, some while I was in software, some while I was in the publishing space. And so we're just used to being at home, I've probably been home at least five, six years of out of my whole career. And so it's definitely normal rhythm for us. In terms of the podcasting stuff, it's a lot of early mornings, or late nights or fitting it in when I can, you know, gotta eat with the family and help put kids to bed and do all those things. And so, really, it's just finding time in the schedule where it can actually work. So what I say I have perfect work life balance, no, it shifts from week to week, certainly, depending on priorities and, and what's going on. And anybody who has kids ranging from preschool up to adult, the needs of those kids shift and change, too. So what is happening in the household and, and all that it, you know, just looks different in this season than it did five years ago, or 10 years ago?

Sure. You know, I have a lot of respect for you and your wife. I was homeschooled. And it was my sister and I my mom homeschooled us. And I know how much work the two of us caused my mom to have. And so multiplying that by five I have I have a lot of respect for your wife. And yeah, so God bless you. That's awesome, though. That's a great education. And it is totally worth it. I am a testament of that.

It's never dull man. That's for sure.

Yeah. So I want to look back at your podcast too, because you said you have some 800 plus interviews that you've done now. Do you ever go back and listen to some of the older ones just curious with that I try to once in a while just to see how have I grown as a podcaster since then, I'm just curious to hear you

it can be cringeworthy. As I'm sure you know, as you look back before when you had lesser equipment or less skill or all that all the things that honestly the technology when we all started out isn't what wasn't then what it is today. It's it's much easier to podcast today. My old show is taken down. So some of that content exists, but a lot of it's just hidden away in on some thumb drive somewhere at my house. But what's been most interesting to me is by and large, my format hasn't changed in the sense that I've largely interviewed authors about books, I would say, what has shifted as I do in this season give a bit more commentary? I certainly don't talk too much. I mean, it's probably one of the things I I am frustrated with most on some shows where the post talks like half of the interview, and that's frustrating, cuz I feel like if you're gonna invite a guest on, he really should, yeah, maximize the time that they speak. Because more often than not, you know, people are tuning in downloading, so they can hear the, the guests speak. But yeah, that would be the one thing that surprised me is how much I've really stayed on mission. You know, in terms of, I want people to connect with the author, you know, who they are, what makes them tick, where they came from? Why were they the person to write this book, you know, two or three highlights from the book, a takeaway prayer? And where do we find you on the web. And that's, you know, still 889 years later, that's largely the format I use for the show. So that's interesting, as I look back, I would say, you know, at this point is just more confidence in the craft, you know, having done it for a long time, it's easier to put together interviews, it's easier to have conversations, I think some of that, too, just comes with life experience, you know, the things I'm concerned about or passionate about are different now than when I was in my 30s starting out podcasting. So, but yeah, as I look back in earlier content, you know, in terms of the quality or some of that, you know, I'm like, wow, I actually released that, or I thought that was good at the time. Because back Back in the day, there was, it's not like that you could go to YouTube and say, How do I start a podcast? Right? Unless you were an audio, unless you were an audio engineer, you had to just kind of figured out by trial and error. And so, you know, it's it's been probably a longer road to build my skill set than somebody starting out today, where you could go watch four or five YouTube videos and be pretty, pretty high end just out of the gate. And so, yeah, don't take that lightly. What you have access to now is far better than what we had 10 years ago.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. So you've moved around a bit, you had different jobs. You said earlier about, like you had more money, then I forget exactly what you said. But it was the money. Basically, it came down to money didn't make you happy, you made a good bit of money, but it didn't make you happy. Right, that's still a difficult thing to give up. because money is, is kind of an important thing. But how was that step of faith to say, you know what, I'm going to go into something that, you know, Christian publishing, that's a big step from right, what you're doing in the tech world to the print world. So tell me about that step of faith.

Christian publishing, where everybody goes to get rich, that's why I went there. No, it was interesting, you know, I think, I don't know, I guess I would have been, you know, early 30s. And it was certainly a grind I, towards the end of my software career, I ran a 24 seven call center that did no international support. So it was I was always on call. So very stressful, very, very demanding. And we had just gotten into a situation with some JD powers, survey stuff, where some of the stuff I was being asked to do was a little squishy. And, you know, what, could you just make this look right, or look good and so honest, on a certain level, I was uncomfortable with that, obviously. And I was just burned out. So between between some things I was being asked to do, and just really not being in a good place. I talked to a few friends from church and my wife, and we all prayed about it. And we're like, yeah, it's probably a good time to part ways. But I didn't have like a safety net, or a plan B, it was just kind of like, I guess all this consulting thing I've been toying with, I'll just keep trying to grow that. And so that was certainly a struggle to move from making, like low six figures to you know, cut that by two thirds for a bit. And so what I learned along that journey, because I need that journey to get to where I am today, so Exactly, yeah, there are a few different opportunities early on, where, you know, people would reach out to me say, Hey, I got a call center, I need to get to run it. And so that, you know, I would go interview, and they'd be like, you're awesome. And we love you and I interview Well, I've rarely not gotten a job that I've interviewed for and the doors would just shut like, Oh, yeah, sorry, Bill decided not to leave like super random stuff that's like abnormal. And so finally, I was like, okay, God, I I'm sensing that year, like, This door is shut, the season is over. And I'm stepping into some new something that I just really can't fully see. And so I reached a point where I just kind of yielded my old kind of life for a space I worked it and just said, Eric, I'll just kind of move in a direction. And so from that point forward is just a slow build higher and higher into the publishing space. And I'm super passionate about this space in a way that I was never passionate about tech or software, or tech support and You know, some of it I, you know, yeah, I'm smart, and I'm talented, but you know, I think was more of the Lord's hand in the Lord's favor. I mean, in the past seven, eight years, I've worked for three different major trade publishers and starting out at, you know, kind of publicists and Community Development kind of entry level positioning to position. So now I'm an executive at a at a publishing company. So I was able to climb the ladder extremely fast. And now, I came out of, you know, large companies with management experience and project management experience and all kinds of crazy stuff. So it wasn't like I just fell off the turnip truck. But it was interesting to see how God opened doors in a pretty rapid fashion, for me to move up through several different companies in a way that as I look back on it, you know, it's mostly the Facebook reminders when Facebook says, Oh, look, seven years ago, there were this and I'm like, Wow, I've done a lot of things since seven years ago, or eight years ago. And so, you know, I think, like anybody, if I could do things differently, again, I probably make some different decisions, or plan or be a little bit more patient patient, but some of that's just being young, and we were more impulsive. Certainly, but at the same time, you know, I don't know that I would want to undo some of those things. Because it's those lessons that sharpened me that helped me to learn. There's some of the stories I tell other people who are starting out as they're coming to me for counsel, I really need the path I went on to get me here without me taking that leap out of an industry I'd spent over a decade and I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today. So it was hard. But I'm thankful because that's what opened the doors that got me here.

Yeah. So what what kind of publishing work did you do before you went into software? Because you said that was something that you wanted to go back to? Was that something that you were doing like actually as a profession, or was that just as a hobby at that point?

Well, I mentioned earlier, I met my wife working in a Christian bookstore. So I spent like a year and a half in Christian retail, did every job in the store from front register to customer service to shipping, ordering, receiving running the coffee shop, all the things and so everything except for printing the books and writing the books. You did, yeah, we Yeah, that that capability on site didn't exist, then it does today, though, to some degree, I've never seen it anywhere. I've heard of those machines. So that was kind of my start in kind of Christian retail, falling in love with the space. And then, you know, just tech and software, I had some opportunity there and you could make decent money to support a family. So that's kind of how I got redirected. But it was that time to Christian retail that opened doors for me to just start some consulting, helping with some blogging and social media stuff when that was kind of in its infancy, especially with Christian publishers. And so I already been kind of moonlighting with that for a bit before jumping ship and trying to make that my full time gig. I did reach a point, though, a few years in where, because I'd never worked inside a trade publisher. I kind of hit a ceiling. It's like, Oh, well, you've never worked for a publisher. It's like that guy was the janitor, Zondervan. Maybe we'll hire him or something, you know, it was just, it was a disadvantage, just because I'd never worked as a publisher, and so or at a publisher. And so that was partly why I decided to go inside of a publisher to learn and grow and just, you know, try to kind of expand the skill sets I didn't have. And at this point, I kind of intend to stay inside for the foreseeable future. Now, I like to change things up every few years and do different things. And so I've been blessed to have a lot of variety. But it was certainly that time in Christian retail that tied me into the consulting piece, eventually, that opens the doors to go inside the trade publishers I've worked at.

I definitely miss those Christian bookstores, there used to be one that I would go to frequently, and I think it was every Tuesday, they there was, you know, new Christian music that came out. And so that was released Tuesday. Yeah, that was a big deal. And go into the Christian bookstore was, was quite the event, and just spend hours there, you know, looking at books and looking at CDs and stuff like that. So that's really interesting that that, that that's part of your background, and where you kind of cut your teeth and how God brought you from that to actually working, you know, providing for those, those bookstores to actually have material and content there. So I wish there was more brick and mortar stores there. Yeah. There's not a whole lot anymore. But yes, but thank God, the content is still out there. Because there's a lot of great ministers and authors that are out there. And Shawn, how do you find those people that are out there? Because it seems like you guys are always sending us great guests for the hope today program and before that real life, and I know that if your publisher destiny, anybody in the Nora group, you know, sends us somebody I know it's gonna be a good guest. So how do you find them? Because I'm grateful for that? Definitely.

Yeah, I mean, it's like anything, it's often built on relationships. So on the one hand, we know our lane in terms of content, you know, we're looking for things in the prophetic healing, spiritual warfare, kind of the bread and butter of the charismatic and spirit empowered space. So we do a pretty good job of staying in our lane. I would say relationally what's really important is that somebody is vetted or, you know, somebody will vouch for them kind of a thing. So when somebody comes to us, we're often looking for Well, do you know, several other authors who we work with? Or, you know, can you get endorsements from authors that we trust and that sort of thing? So we do rely pretty heavily on relationships, I would say the other place we lean into is where is God moving? So you know, we're looking for Where is revival breaking out? Where does the Holy Spirit seem to be moving in a space in the nation? Is there something actionable and transferable from how God is moving or what's happening that could be put into a book and, you know, shared with others, that somebody could run with that or have their life transformed by that. So there's a lot of different ways that books come into the house. But the key things would be that, you know, we know people that you know, and that, you know, the content fits within the space that we have the ability to market and sell in and just do ministry in really well. There's nothing worse than when you get out of your lane and produce something that it's not charismatic enough. And it's not evangelical enough, and therefore it's nobody's book, and nobody wants to do interviews for it. So and that is a struggle today, you know, we I see lots of publishers who publish crazy broad in terms of what they're doing in the market, and that's fine. But in terms of the you would know, this as a producer, with the media, relationships, not everything works any everywhere. And so, if you all of a sudden try to do a spirit empowered, charismatic book, and everything you've done to date has been more evangelical, conservative leaning, those media outlets do not work all the time. And so although there's been an interesting convergence across the market, in terms of the cross pollination, and I'm definitely seeing a lot more charismatic authors pop up in places, I wouldn't have expected them to, you know, four or five years ago. So, yeah, but at the end of the day, like most of life at all, it all comes down to relationships, you know, and so or some of it, too, you know, if people will do their homework, just like a job interview, you know, you want to see somebody who's done their research and is prepared and all the things, you know, if there are people who begin building relationships with me or my other colleagues who do acquisitions, you know, where we meet at conferences, or they'll seek us out NES feedback, how do I get started? What would I need for platform and all the things and that can be another way to get a foot in the door where you build a relationship, and you try to kind of build everything to the point where you're ready to be published by a trade publisher? But you know, it, it? Yeah, some of it, I would say is relationship. And then the other piece, I would just say, in terms of, you know, do this comes up a lot of just throw this out there, do you need an agent? Can you can you be agented on your own or represent yourself. It all depends on the publisher, some publishers will take unsolicited, so submissions directly from an author and that that often comes if you have a relationship with an acquisitions editor or agent. Sometimes trade publishers will only take solicited manuscripts, which would come through an agent or some kind of a second or third party kind of a situation. And to really depends on the size of the deal you're looking for, or the level of publisher that you're trying to publish with. For the most part, these days, if you do a little creative homework, you can easily get connected to somebody who you could at least talk to her pitch to directly. Often the only place I see agents having a lot of value today is if you need somebody to negotiate for a higher level deal or a bigger advance. In those circumstances, it is very helpful to have an agent because sometimes you just don't know the economics of it, or you don't know what to ask or what to how to negotiate. So that was that's where it can be helpful. Yeah, there's definitely some interesting shifts in terms of self and traditional publishing we're in. We're in a very different world. So yeah, windy answer. So I hope I answered your question.

I think the answer is in there somewhere. That's all good, though.

Yes, yes. somehow connect with people and they might publish you. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, the important thing is, what is God doing in this person's life? And what is their message? And how does that get out there. And so I just want to encourage people that are listening that regardless of how big your platform is, you have a message God has put something in your heart that he wants you to tell other people and he wants you to express and help other people with. And if you're faithful with what God has given you to do, then he's going to be able to trust you to do more and provide other opportunities. And just like hell, Shawn has said how he started doing this podcast, the Shawn tabet show, or you call it something different at that point, I think, right?

Yep. Originally it was authored talks with Shaun Tabatt. So but

now it's the Shaun Tabatt show and you'd like to talk about shiny things and stuff like that as well.

Shiny objects, things that get my attention, yes,

but those those things that that have got your attention. You've been able to talk about them because you've had God's attention, right and you've been faithful For the things that he's trusted you with, and you've seen that grow, and it's opened up opportunities for you, in the things that God has charged you with, whether it be personal or or podcasting or professional, what is it that you feel that I wanted to quit? And I wanted to give up, but I didn't. And that's how I saw that God opened up those doors because of that.

Yeah, you know, I would say kind of in terms of ministry calling, like we kind of alluded to earlier, those things come back around. And I feel like we get inklings of things early on in life or things were kind of our, our destiny and our ability kind of comes together. And so I'm definitely in season, we're in a roundabout way, I've fallen back into the kind of my first love, they're the things that I thought I was supposed to be doing. So that's definitely been a great blessing that God has brought some of the things those things back into my orbit in this season. You know, in terms of the podcasting journey, there are times where I've taken breaks for several months, and just had to take time off just because I was too busy. Yet podcasting keeps coming back, and I can't put it down, so to speak, you know, it is weird in this season, to have been doing it for a while I don't say this to be boastful. I get lots of compliments on my content and what I'm working on. And I say that people say you're so good at this. And it's like, well, I've been doing it for a while in it, I guess it's almost surreal to just be doing something you love and you're crazy passionate about that other people are appreciated or see the the skill that goes into it. And so I really do appreciate that. What's really interesting for me in this season, I'm in my early 40s. And I think in this past year, I've crossed into a space where God's pushing me to have more of my own messaging. So I've spent many years elevating other people getting other people's messages out there. And I'm just in this sort of refining challenging season where God's pressing me to be like, okay, here's the here's kind of the things your your to be about, or messages that you have, that's a different territory for me, where I'm I'm used to being the person always doing interviews, right, you know, oddly, I'm in a season where I'm finding my voice and expressing kind of opinions and passions about other other things related to Christian culture, and church and different things, probably stuff that I would have been silent on before. And so that's definitely a different space, you know, just like anybody else trying to figure out how to how to navigate being a good husband, and a good father, a good employee at the you know, for the company I serve, and all the things and, you know, try and try to figure out, I think, if there's one thing I want to strive for, it's that, to be transparent to be a kingdom person, in all spheres of life, all places that I have influence. And that's not always easy to do, because I think we can tend to compartmentalize, I'm a church person here, and I'm a this person there. And this is how I'm at home, and just trying to get to a place where there's just complete transparency, where I'm that same person in all spaces. I mean, honestly, for different leaders and authors that I meet, that's one of the things that I really look for, are they the same person behind the pulpit on a stage as they are in the greenroom, or in a meeting in their office, or in their email and other communication? Or if we go out to dinner, and and when I see that that person is consistent in many of those spaces, or all those bases, that really excites me, because on the one hand, that's somebody I want to work with. On the other, I'm like, man, can I learn something from how they've been able to achieve this level of transparency, and all these different areas, or all these different spheres that they're operating in, because the average person does not do that? Well. And so that's saying, I figured that out, or I'm doing that perfectly, but it's definitely something I'm navigating in this season.

That's interesting. I'd like to talk a little bit more about that, especially like kind of like finding your finding your voice, finding your message, and kind of honing in on that. I really appreciate that you've done so much of helping other people find their voice and find their message, and, you know, provide a platform for them to do that. And it's interesting that God's now challenging you to share more about things in the culture and to speak out about that. What are some of the ways that God is leading you in that? And what is it that you feel like God is saying, this is a message that's on Shawn tab? It's heart.

Yeah, you know, one of the things I'm exploring right now, and this, this will eventually become a book, but I feel like there's something profoundly broken somewhat. I feel like you see the start of it in the Gen X generation. And then when you get down into the millennials, you know, people often talk about father wounds, but I feel like they're more so than that. Not only are their mother wounds, I feel like there's kind of a almost a wholesale of generational abandonment, and that's not to throw our parents under the bus in any way. But just culturally, you know, I feel like it was it started in my generation and got worse as you keep progressing through the other generations. were largely we are raised by media in our appears and just different things. The The, the input of our family in our church was was probably a little more limited than than it should have been. Our parents were Likely working, or both of them, or we were in single parent homes, all the things. And so I feel like we're seeing long term effects of that and culture. Last year, I feel like we saw a lot of that in terms of all the chaos that erupted in the nation. And we're, you know, if you have a large group of people, a couple generations deep, who they're not really sure where they came from, they're not quite sure what they're doing or what they're on mission for, or what their calling is, they're not really sure where they're going, either. Anything will do. And so in terms of being embracing sort of the social media raged topic of the day, or what not, we could we could make a list of a bunch of things that people were drawn into all throughout last year, I feel like we can be easily drawn into something because we want to belong, we want to be seen, we want to be heard, we want to feel like we're making a difference. On the one hand, you could say, well, Sean, that's identity, or lots of identity books on the market, I feel like what people are dealing with, it actually goes deeper than the average kind of identity challenge where it's, it's such a deep seated thing that it's going to take more than just, oh, my identities in Christ. That's that is sufficient. And the Holy Spirit can certainly work with that. But in terms of, there's just, there's some deep work that needs to be done there. And so that's kind of what I'm on a mission to explore right now to try to figure out what is it that began to break in my generation and the generation that came after and because that, that spills into what holds us back in the workplace, in our marriages, and our parenting and all the places that we're doing things, we just haven't had a lot of good examples, or we're trying to figure it out, or we don't have and I see this a lot with my millennial friends, they don't have an ability, they just say, you know, the phrase, I just can't even you know, where they can't deal with it, but almost a fear of dealing with the complexity of cultural problems, or the issues that are going on in the globe. Like, that's just too much. I just want to watch Netflix, or I just want to do this, or I can deal with this small thing in front of me. But don't tell me the whole picture, because that's just crazy stresses me out. And so I haven't exactly figured out all the answers for that. I've got lots of notes and things I'm exploring. But there is something that is profoundly broken, that needs to be fixed. You know? And I would say that, obviously, Jesus is the answer to fix that. But I feel like the piece I'm still working out is how do I lovingly help somebody unpack their stuff? How do I lovingly help somebody break themselves down to a kind of clean foundation that they can start rebuilding, and and invite Jesus into break some of those broken places of their heart in their spirit? And so from a book perspective, that's, that's my project I'm working on right now. That's certainly an interesting one. The other thing I'm crazy passionate about right now is just pressing into what does church look like, as we move ahead, thinks things went awry in 2020. In terms of assembly, and all the challenges there, those challenges continue into 2021, I think we're stepping into a space where churches gonna look different, instead of like big mega church, where there might be more of a larger hub at the center of the wheel. But the actual places where believers are gathering, I think it could be more house church oriented or kind of smaller gathering oriented. Obviously, we've done a lot of that the past 12 months out of necessity, right. But I think that might be more of the norm. on a practical level, once we got past 60 days of kind of quarantine locked down, people's habits shifted, they started making new grooves in their brain, new patterns, new habits, all those things, we likely won't be able to actually go back to how things were before, just practically speaking, let alone if there are limitations and how we can assemble. And so the thing I'm pressing into right now is, let's figure out what this new normal is and embrace it, you know, what does God want to do? I would even argue that last year was a gift, even though it was awful. And I don't want to minimize anybody's pain or loss. But it showed us where we are wanting in terms of our church, our family, all these places we got, we got compressed, and sometimes God came out sometimes other stuff came out. But it did force us in a way I don't feel like we've seen for a long time in the US to actually wrestle with our faith, does it mean something? Does it make a difference in our life? And so, you know, definitely a refining season, personally, I think for many of us and also for the church. And so I think things are just going to look different. So to my two things I'm passionate about to summarize it, helping to fix the brokenness of my generation in the millennial generation, and then really pressing into what is what is church life look like going forward? It's just going to look different, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Yeah. Do you have a working title for your Gen X and millennial audience book,

I lovingly call it my orphan spirit book, because I just don't know what to call it. Yeah, if I publish it with destiny image, I'm gonna have to give it some kind of a fancy charismatic name. So you know, some kind of a chaos Leviathan spirit, or I'm not there yet. It sort of depends how the rest of it rolls out. Sure. But yeah,

Yeah. As you're working on that, and as you podcasting, I know that God always is speaking things to us. And it's like, you got to be paying attention to those those God whispers or those those things that those impressions on your heart, how do you stay attentive to whenever God says some of those things? What advice would you give to kind of stay attentive? And how have you done that?

I would say, getting past just checking the boxes. So I think we can, you know, feel like I gotta do my Christian duty, prayed, check, read my Bible check, and then just move on. And so not not planning time into your day. I don't care when it is just time to get quiet time to be alone with God. Time to just listen and hear from God. I feel like that's probably one of the biggest neglected aspects of our, our spiritual disciplines right now. The other thing I would say is, when we have hard things, just really pray about it and press in for answers from God. Like, was lat last week my wife and I are wrestling with where are we supposed to move? We're in a season where we're thinking about relocating. And we had one direction we're going and full steam ahead. And we felt like we're supposed to get our house ready to sell but weren't 100% confirmed on where we are going. And then I was on the road last week visiting with some authors and friends. And one of the leaders I was meeting with challenge me He's like, are you sure that you're supposed to move to the Dallas area? And I was like, well, I, I'm not actually not sure. Now that you mentioned it, you know, it's, it's, I can come up with lots of reasons. But you know, I don't feel like we have a release. And that particular author challenged me it was like, Well, you know, I think you're supposed to come to Greenville, and you know, thinking about as well, we've had prophetic words spoken over about going to Greenville in the past. And to be honest, I was I was frustrated because I was like, man, I just did like gotten my head around this whole Texas idea. Although I'm glad I'm not in Texas right now.

Yeah. Storm right now.

Yeah, yeah, is a Minnesotan. I still understand their infrastructure is not designed

to do Heck no, they're definitely not.

So you know, I have a frustrating situation. But I want to be honoring of this friend. And I trust, I trust his wisdom, and his insight. And so I told my wife about it, she was not happy, because her heart was kind of set on trying to figure out this whole Texas idea. And I just, I spent the night praying about it. And God gave me very clear direction on, you know, what was the right choice, in the sense not that either location would be bad, but that, you know, really, it needed to be Greenville, where we're supposed to land next. And so, you know, just being bold enough to go to God with something and just keep pressing into you get an answer. I feel like that comes easier over time. As our relationship shifts and changes. I don't know that I could have as easily done that five or six years ago, in terms of my ongoing dialogue with God that has been, that's just been a growth area for me. So yeah. I don't even remember where we started with this question.

But that's, that's, that's great. I mean, we've just been talking about hearing God and following him. And what is God saying as your I mean, for me, as I'm doing podcast interviews, I've done 84, something like that right now I kind of end up I've done some extra episodes that I'm not even counting,

what was your big milestone 50,000 downloads or so

I just recently passed 50,000 downloads? And it took, yeah, thank you, gratulations. Man,

it's no matter where you are, in your journey. Every every big milestone is a big deal.

Yeah, it is, it is. And whether it be a guest that you've been trying to get for a while when you finally are able to book them or, you know, you have this many people downloading and listening to it. Or you know, you've got people reaching out to you from other countries. And I want to thank people that have done that. That's awesome. I've had people from Dubai reach out to me and different places in Europe and Australia, and different places in the United States as well. And that is so encouraging. But whenever I'm doing these interviews, whenever I'm interacting with the people that God has put along the way in my life, I'm trying to be attentive to what God is what God is really saying to my heart from the things that they're saying. And so, you know, the whole premise of this podcast is kind of built around the amass road story of how the disciples were walking with Jesus, for seven miles from Jerusalem to amaze. And they didn't realize that it was Jesus that was actually talking with them and walking with them until they sit down at the table. Jesus blesses the food and breaks the bread, their eyes are opened, and then poof, he's gone. Then they turn to each other and say, and Luke 2432 weren't our hearts burning within us along the way as he was revealing the scriptures to us. And I don't want to miss those moments where my heart's burning, but I'm just too busy to pay attention to it or be aware of that. And so that's one of the questions that I always like to ask people that I have this opportunity to be with. And so Shawn, what is a moment that you can look back and you say, you know, Jesus was I might not have noticed it then. But Jesus was walking with me and I my heart was burning at that time.

Man, that's there, there are a lot of examples I can use. You know, if I look back probably in one of the sweetest moments of my life in terms of almost I feel like it was a god setup, if you will, for my life would be the day that I actually met my wife. And so I was I was engaged to somebody else at the time, I was engaged in my high school sweetheart. And so the second day, I worked in this Christian bookstore, and I don't even know why they hired me. And maybe they just needed somebody that wasn't at the college close by. But I had no no exposure to that I grew up Lutheran. We didn't know anything about anything in their popular Christian culture market at all. But the first thing my wife says to me, is she asked me if I was engaged or married, and I was like, Well, I'm engaged. And she was like, Well, what, that doesn't do me any good, you know, all they do is ever hire guys here who are engaged or married. And I was super shy at the time. And so that scared the heck out of me. But I guess it must have kind of intrigued me enough that I did pay attention to my wife, Lynette and we started dating a couple months later. But it was, I look at that as as a real interesting, divine pivot point. Had I stayed on the track that I was on with the girl I was engaged to, I would have probably entered in the Lutheran ministry as a Lutheran pastor. That's the track I was on 150%. And with that divergence from that path, it took my life in this completely other direction. I feel like I'm where I'm supposed to be in terms of color and what I'm designed to do, but in terms of divine setup, almost Jesus even nudging me to to get in the door there. That moment, changed my life forever.

I can tell. So let me get this straight. You a Lutheran boy gets a job at a Christian bookstore. you're engaged. Yep. And did you really say that the first thing your now wife said to you was are you engaged or married? Like that was it's not not Hello, or anything like that? That was the first thing

Nope, that was the first question she asked me, which was quite hell. And I, we've looked back on that. And like, she's she has no idea why she even said that, to me. To be honest. I don't know if she was looking to get a reaction out of me, or I really couldn't tell you what that was about. But maybe maybe it was a God thing that she asked that certainly got my attention.

Yeah, definitely.

But yeah, it is. It's always it's always interesting to look back where I feel like there are these divine moments where we have these pivot points, or these kind of forks in the road. And if we if we choose this way versus that way, it completely shifts the aspect of our destiny in terms of calling. I feel like those things that are truly on our life. They come back around, it may look different depending on the season that you actually embrace it in or step into it in. But yeah, in terms of a divine moment where God really made an important shift, that's probably one of the biggest ones for me.

Yeah. So Lutheran go to Christian College, Christian bookstore. Yep. I think I remember you saying something about there's a Baptist bent in there as well. My wife grew up and Baptist general conferences, Baptists, as Baptists could be and now you work for a spirit filled publisher. That is, yeah, dealing with prophetic and healing. I just got to know how did the Holy Spirit grab you and how did you meet the Holy Spirit?

Yeah. Well, I props to my brother in law party, Putman, in the process of stepping away from my life at the software company actually ended up helping out my wife, step mom with her business one summer, and on the weekends, I would come to Illinois, where we actually live here right now. And we're hanging out with my brother and sister in law, you know, would go to their vineyard church. And so my brother in law just started turning me on to some of Darren Wilson's films and some different books. And that space was all new to me. But he was like, hey, if you want to kind of understand what we're what we're going after here, in terms of healing and prayer, and whatnot, this will help you get your feet wet. And so that was kind of where it started for me. And then I actually started using my podcast as a way just to bring on charismatic or spirit empowered authors like Chad Norris, who I was just with last week, that was my first encounter with him or Robbie Dawkins, or, you know, different authors where I literally use the podcast as a way just to I would read the books and this, ask them all the questions I have. So it was a way to learn. And then I always say, because God has a sense of humor, you know, as at fortress press, and then I get hired at Baker and I become the senior publicists over Bethany house nonfiction and chosen books. And so because of my role chosen books, I have to go to Bethel, I have to go to conferences, that global awakening is hosting. And this would have been fine five, six years ago, I don't remember the timeline. Exactly. And you know, it was a gentle yielding or yielding on my part over time where as as I was more comfortable in this space, I was more open to things of the Spirit. And you know, my thing was God if this is real, Well, great. You know, I want to be all in. And I remember I think was my second voice of the apostles. It was a real funny evening. Will heart was doing Some kind of an invitation, and I totally get hit with the Holy Spirit when I'm out in the crowd. And then later that evening, we have a business meeting with Randy Clark and some of his other people. And so I'm sitting there in this meeting. And my leg just keeps touching throughout the whole meeting, and Randy just looks at me and smiles. And then I go back to my hotel room, and go to bed and just have this kind of dramatic God encounter shaking experience that night. And when I come back home after the conference, my wife was like, What in the world shifted with you, you're different, like you were very different than when you left for the conference. And so I'd had some Holy Spirit encounters leading up to that, but really that that time that VOA was like the most one of the most dramatic series of encounters over that whole conference where it definitely pivoted things for me and just really heightened my comfort level, it should be with just being open to whoever God wants to work through me. Now I can say, as somebody who came out of the more evangelical conservative leaning space, that's not easy. Starting out to get comfortable with that I was saying it's like, you know, you can read about it, you can see it on a film, you can see it happen in person. But until it actually happens to you, you're like a guy standing in the outside of the aquarium looking in or you're like a guy at the zoo looking inside the cage. And once you get thrown into the aquarium or the cage, and you experienced that, then you have to deal with it. So I feel like that's where it becomes real, like you can, you can know all this information. And then when it happens, you're like, Oh, that's what they're actually talking about. And so, but yeah, I like to say that God has a sense of humor. So he makes me a senior publicist over a charismatic brand. And just because of all the places I had to go, and the people I had to hang out with, and the books I had to promote, I was just thrust into this world. And at this point, you know, six, seven years in whatever it's been, I definitely feel at home here. This is this is my tribe, these are my people. And I kind of anticipate this will be my space, I'm in for the rest of my life in terms of awesome church faith expression experience.

That's awesome. You know, another question it back to kind of my theme questions that I always ask, if you yourself could go back in time and visit young Shawn, and give your young version of yourself some advice, oh, man, what's going on in his life? Kind of paint that picture? And then what would you tell yourself?

oh, man, you know, I think is a kid who grew up in a single parent family, No dad around, you know, God was faithful. And I had several families that just kind of adopted being poured into me, so to speak. And so those were all good things. But if I could talk to, you know, myself in my early teen years, it would, it would be that keep moving forward, there's a family on the other side of this, there's, you know, all these great things, you know, my wife and I both come out of, you know, broken home situations divorce, and my parents were never married. And so, you know, I, you know, I certainly had a vision to get married, but I never had a vision that was quite as big as what we've ended up accomplishing. But one of the things that we're really passionate about is that we are kind of kind of fixing the mold or choosing depression, where our parents weren't able to, and so, you know, kind of restarting that multi generational legacy of, you know, we're gonna have a bunch of kids, we're gonna stay married, we're gonna keep pouring into them with more of a long term, multi generational mindset. I guess if I could do anything, I'd love to help my younger self see that that was on the horizon? Yeah. Because what I'm getting to do now in terms of my life, and it's crazy, but it's crazy, awesome. I just didn't even have an inkling or a vision, that that even was possible for me. And so I guess, if I could help my younger self, prepare for that a little bit more, maybe get some different mentors, or read some different books. That could have been helpful along the way. And speaking of if you don't mind for a second, speaking of mentors to one thing, I would say, one of the real challenges last year, I think, for a lot of us in the millennial and Gen X space, we went through some hardships, especially if we were leading a church or if our whole team was made up of peers that are same age, as you navigate more challenges in 2021. Look to some older folks look for people, your parents age, or your grandparents age, people who've been been there before, people who've got some scars and some bruises and some shoulders that have been toughened up from just being added a bit longer than you. I feel like that. That's probably one of the weakest things I saw last year. And again, I understand you've never seen anything like this before. And we're so used to I'm going to Google this, talk to my friends, and we're gonna figure out how to come up with a solution. But I think some of the solutions we could have used last year probably would have been better if we'd gotten them from people 10 2030 years further down the path than us. So yeah, don't make that same mistake this year. If you have an opportunity to reach out to people that are older than you, I think it'll help you make sounder much more sound decisions. I'm my big concern for a lot of my friends and leaders as I look to the rest of this year is, depending on the direction your church went last year, you might be on the brink of collapse, or financially or there's there's just a lot of different challenges. So, you know, don't necessarily look to the same places for wisdom as you did last year. I think what you're looking for that direction might be found elsewhere.

Yeah. So Shawn, as we're, as we're wrapping up here, thank you for saying all that that's, I really appreciate the whole mentorship thing. That is that is huge. And I think more people need to take advantage of the generations that have been walking the path longer than us. And we can really learn a lot from them. So I do want to ask, though, just, you know, with your with your podcast, you kind of always say, you know, I talk about authors, books and other shiny objects, what is a shiny object or an author or book or whatever it is, what's got your attention right now?

Oh, man, what's got my there's always so many things as I interview so broadly, probably the place that the space that would be surprising maybe to your, your listeners, it's just that I jump outside of the Christian space about 20% of the time. So I do challenge myself to talk to authors and other kind of leaders who are experts in marketing, or business or personal development, or just other stuff that takes me outside of the, as I call it, the Christian bubble that I work inside of. And so that that's, that's a way to challenge myself and sharpen my interview skills, certainly. So that's probably the most shiny object for me. I'm regularly doing anywhere from 20 to 30 interviews a month with with Christian authors in both the charismatic and evangelical space. But you know, I'm usually doing at least three to five with authors who are just completely outside of my world. What's been fun with that is, I've developed some amazing friendships behind the scenes with people who I honestly don't know if they know a Christian at all, in any, you know, anywhere they go. And so, in some regards, I become their one Christian friend, or I'm kind of an anomaly because I'm an executive at a Christian publishing company, who's been married for 20. Some years, I've got 10 kids. And so I find I often have all these things going on in my life, that a lot of them just have no, no, no clue what that would even looked like. And so in terms of the relationships, and and really, you know, on the one hand next to the ministry opportunities, really just friendships and pouring into people and just being available. That that's probably been a sweet surprise that God has opened up in the sense that I was looking for some of that just to challenge myself. So God put those shiny objects in my path to up my interview game. And yet God has used it to open doors to really help me to develop empathy for people outside of the Christian space, and see that they're going after the same things we're going after. They're just, you know, using different language for how they describe it, or, you know, they're, they're very opposed to Jesus. So they're trying to find a different door or a different gateway to access some of those same things that we're going after. And so that's probably been the best shiny object I've had in the past few years. Because nothing challenges you like when you're having to talk about your faith or explain Christian concepts or worldview to somebody who has zero context for it like you to some degree, I would say work inside the Christian bubble, as do I. So typically, we get to communicate and use you know, our normal churchy language and everybody understands us. Nothing challenges like getting outside of your normal world and having people ask you questions you've never been asked before. Or if you use your christianese language, they have no clue what you're even talking about. So yeah, probably the best shiny object of the past two, three years, because it's really grown me and it's built some fantastic relationships.

Very cool. Well, I want to encourage everybody listening to find your own shiny object that's going to stretch you and bring you outside of your bubble of the things that you normally do. And especially if there's an opportunity to then be a light to witness for people that don't, that maybe don't know, Jesus, or are in a completely different, different world. And so you can be like what Sean is talking about, you can be there, maybe the little one Christian friend, and you can help them in their journey as they're going along their way. So Shawn, how do people find out more about you? How can people listen to your podcast and your website and all that stuff?

Yeah. In terms of website it is just Sean tabet.com. Google my name. I'm on Facebook, Twitter pretty regularly. Instagram, I'm really trying hard to love Instagram, but I'm still Facebook and Twitter guy. I'm working hard to grow my YouTube channel. Probably 90% of my content. I do both as video and audio. podcasts the Sean tabet show available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, all the normal places you would consume and download subscribe to a podcast so yeah, just search for my name, you'll find me like, like we've said I've got several 100 interviews behind me. So if you really want to, you know, binge like a year worth of content, it's out there.

Yeah. And that will definitely help your your view count and listener count and everything like that on YouTube, which is I definitely suggest subscribing to your channel because you have got some great stuff out there actually. Right Before we recorded this interview, I started listening to one because you had Troy Brewer and your brother in law, who is a physicist, talking about time travel with Troy Brewer, who I did an episode of along the way with, you can check that episode out. But we're talking about time travel. And I'm like, I gotta, I gotta watch that and hear what these guys have to say. So, Sean, thank you for putting out that information. I will be putting your information in the show notes so that everybody listening can just click and find that stuff. And they can they can become a fan of the Shawn tabet show. And so, Sean, I want to thank you so much for just allowing me to join you along your way.

Well, john, I appreciate the invitation. My friend. I'm looking forward to having you on my show soon. So I can ask you all the hard questions. And yeah, I'm, I'm just excited to see, like I said in the opening, I'm excited to see the opportunities God gives us to collaborate in this year. And and further into the future is definitely a season for creators to partner up and make some cool new stuff together. And so looking forward to see seeing what opens up, amen.

So be on the lookout for that, and I'll definitely have to let you know. I hope that you've enjoyed my conversation with Shawn. I'm grateful for his friendship and I appreciate his experience in podcasting. I've asked him a lot of questions in the past. If you want to know more about Shawn. I'll be providing Sean's info in the show notes. Thank you for listening to along the way. If you've enjoyed joining me along my way, please share this with a friend who you think will be encouraged by this podcast. Also, please rate and review along the way on iTunes that helps more people discover along the way and subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram and through my website along the way dot media. I hope that you've enjoyed this part of my journey in May you realize when Jesus is walking with you along your way. Along the way is honored to be part of the charisma Podcast Network. You can find tons of spirit filled content from their vast catalogue of podcasts including my Monday through Friday news stories for the charisma news podcast. Go to CPN shows calm to see the full list and latest episodes.