The Gift of Prophetic Encouragement - Debbie Kitterman’s Journey AlongTheWay 42

I was not anticipating that he would move us away from everything that we ever knew. So I was a little angry and didn't understand it. And so I just thought, Well, if I can have a real conversation with that, I'm just gonna let him have it. So in my quiet time, I was like, God, I'm just gonna be real. I think you can handle it. I don't even know. I'm hoping that you won't like, come get me. But here's how I feel. And this is my frustration. And so I need you to speak.

Welcome to along the way. I'm john better as a your host and fellow traveler. Thank you for joining me along my way as I've tried to become more like Jesus every day. Through my work as a TV producer, I get to meet some of the most interesting people making an incredible impact in God's kingdom. today's conversation, I have the privilege of talking with Debbie kinderman. She's the author of the gift of prophetic encouragement, and she has a new workbook that goes with that coming out Tuesday, February 11. It will be coming out and so you can get that everywhere. Debbie, thank you so much for allowing me to join you along your way as you tell me about how God has met you along your way.

Thank you so much, john, for having me on. And I am excited to be here and just to talk with you about the journey of how Christ meets us along the way.

Absolutely. Well, Debbie, one of the things that I like to always start out with is just asking you to tell me your story. How did you come to know Christ and how did Christ become real for you?

Okay, well, according to my mother, apparently when I was three, I asked the Lord into my life, but I don't remember that I was eight and it was at a child evangelism fellowship in our backyard, that they came and they did like a five day club. And I remember going, I know my mom said, I did this when I was three, but I don't remember it. I need to make this decision on my own. And so that was during the summertime when I was eight years old. I mean, we started going to church when I was five, and ever since then, I, you know, have followed the Lord went to church read my word, but it really wasn't until I was in my early 20s that I really had an encounter with Jesus and really understood what it really meant to be in relationship. My idea of having a relationship with God was what I read in the scriptures and going to church in Sunday school and listening to what they said. And that was my relationship. And it was just kind of like, Well, God is kind of this distant person that sits up here on his throne. And when I say a prayer, he listens, and I just have to wait for him to respond, because there's so many people. And when I was in my early 20s, we moved we had two kids, I said, a prayer that radically changed my life. You know, it's one of those things where you learn to be very specific with the prayers that you pray. Yeah. Instead of leaving them open ended, you know, for God, but I prayed a prayer with three things and one of those three things was a new job for my husband and And that landed us three and a half hours up the freeway in a completely different state away from everything that I ever knew. But it was God orchestrating the pieces to put us in a new church. That was one of the other things that was in that prayer because I felt like the conservative denomination that we were part of didn't really believe in the gifts of the Spirit working for today. And they didn't really talk a lot about the Holy Spirit. And God just orchestrated those pieces where we found this church that I ended up being on staff I got licensed through and now my husband and I are actually pastors of a church plant from that church. But I was in that time that I began to have this realization of who God was, and how I could have an authentic relationship with Him. And then it was kind of like the woman at the well, where he he really just began to speak to me, and I didn't know that that was even possible in all of my growing up years because it wasn't taught.

So you said something that kind of stuck out to me. You said that Whenever you were praying, you knew that God heard you. But you just felt that God had so many other people that he had to deal with before he could get to you. That kind of hit me because sometimes I feel like I'm being an annoyance to God, whenever I'm asking him a prayer, or, you know, just trying to talk with them, but God's not like that. How did God break that mindset that you had?

Okay, so that's an interesting thing, because my my whole life I, I felt like there was something more, but yet, because I didn't have the framework to understand that God speaks today. And that, in fact, he's speaking all around who just have to tune into his frequency. It really wasn't until I had that encounter when I was at a women's retreat two years into being at this particular church and our senior pastors wife, she said, you're going to go get alone with God and have a real conversation. And I was like, what you can do that like you can have a real conversation. Just like I'm sitting down having a conversation with you, or I would with my kids at the dinner table, and it was this whole new concept that I didn't understand. And in that process, I kind of went well, okay. There was a lot of things. I mean, even though I had prayed the prayer, asking God to give us a new job in a new church, I was not anticipating that he would move us away from everything that we ever knew. So I was a little angry, and didn't understand it. And so I just thought, Well, if I can have a real conversation with that, I'm just gonna let him have it. So in my quiet time, I was like, God, I'm just gonna be real. I think you can handle it. I don't even know. I'm hoping that you won't, like, come get me. But here's how I feel. And there's this my frustration. And so I need you to speak. I mean, pastor said you would speak to us, I need you to speak and that day, I didn't hear anything, but I was able to just like have a real authentic conversation of what I was really feeling inside and I share that This in the gift of prophetic encouragement book, I don't know very many people that have heard the audible voice of God. But this was one of those times for me where I was so exhausted after the retreat. We were driving home and nobody else was in the van and I was sleeping in the backseat. Yes, my seatbelt was on. That's good. But I was laying down sleeping.

Yeah, sleeping in the car. Make sure your seatbelt is on before you only for safety first first. Yeah.

And and I was sleeping and it was like I was having a dream. But then I heard this voice say did not give you everything you asked for. And I bolted straight up. And I sat up and I asked the two women in the front. I'm like, um, did you guys say anything like and they're like, No, you were sleeping. We're having a conversation. I'm like, Okay, okay, but on the radio, did something like this come out? Didn't I give you everything you asked for? And they're like, No, that was not even a conversation. We're playing worship music. That's not it. And it really is. Like I was like that stuck with me it was so ingrained and seared on my mind. Like, I can still hear that voice today because it startled me away. It was like a First Samuel three moment, right? Like, God is calling you, but you don't know It's him. And it would take probably about a year and a half to two years before I understood that it was the voice of God. But that began to create a hunger in me because nobody was with me in my quiet time when I dumped all my stuff on God. And so he was actually responding saying did not give you every answer to the prayer that you prayed. Yeah, but not in the way that I thought you would. Right? And so that's really when I had this, this beginning of God, Israel, and He will speak to me, and he doesn't always speak in the audible voice, but when he does, you pay attention. And you notice it. I always thought it would be like and I say this in the book because James Earl Jones, he has like that God sounding voice right? Yeah, I always thought it would be something like that. But it really wasn't. But it just kind of resonated into my spirit. And it was enough to bolt me awake. And I actually thought it was the people in the car.

Yeah, that's pretty cool. I know whenever God speaks to me, God can speak sometimes just one word, but that one word really speaks in layers where it's it's not just what that word means in the dictionary, but God knows exactly what that word means to me. And what that word means deep down in my soul. And so when God spoke that to you, you knew exactly what he was referring to. Yes, I did. That's discernment. But it's also you already had a relationship with the Lord. But he wanted to go deeper. And I think that's why he spoke the way that he did. Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah. So what happened next? Okay,

so what happened next? So then, then after that, then I began this journey of taking some classes. And in fact, it wasn't long before I started actually teaching those classes because the gift of the prophetic has been Well, it's for all of us like the spiritual gift of prophecy. Paul says, I want you to desire all of the spiritual gifts, but especially the gift of prophecy. But this was kind of like, you know, that gift that had been deposited in me. But I didn't know it as a kid. And so that March, the beginning, really, of my journey of God is listening to what I'm praying, and he's responding. And he began to speak to me about that the prophetic is all about relationship. And my response to him when he said that to me, several years later, when he said that it was because I was like teaching and the Lord just, you know, just drops these questions and you're like, Yeah, I know that, but you don't really know that. And it kind of dropped this thing, like the prophetic all about relationship. And my response was, duh. Of course it is. Which I know doesn't sound great. But if when you have this relationship with the Lord, you just are who you really are. And it's authentic. And it's real, just like it is with the people that you do life with. And so doing live with him, I was just like, Well, of course I know that. But when I knew enough that when God said something that I didn't have the full revelation that I just need to sit back and wait and begin to ask questions, okay, what do you mean? Begin to show me what you mean about that the prophetic is all about relationship. And then he just he began to talk to me about that its relationship with him, right that we develop this authentic real relationship with Him. And then out of the overflow of that learning to have real conversations learning to hear. It's not just a one sided thing. Because when we have authentic relationship, if only one of us is speaking in that relationship, it's not really a relationship. And so he began and this part I got, but then he began to deal with me about the heart that needs to go out. Like what I'm getting is just not just for me, but it's to release to other people so that I can then bring them into relationship with the Father. And so that it's this it's this relationship of prophetic hearing from God, understanding what he's speaking to me. And then also sharing and encouraging and releasing that to other people who may or may not know him yet, right. You know, first Corinthians 14 people are like, why do you love this part of that, but if you read all the way down to the end, and it says that if an unbeliever comes in your myths, and they hear the word of prophecy, they're going to be convinced and convicted that God is really real, they're going to follow down on their face and say, God is really among you. And I said, Isn't that what it's about? That's like the woman at the well. That's as, as she was sitting there. There was something burning inside of her that when he's not like everybody else, he's not like all of the the Jews, that I'm a Samaritan. Plus, he shouldn't even be talking to me because I'm a woman. But he also shouldn't be talking to me because of my lifestyle. But there was something in her that shifted and that's what he began to speak to me about. And that's why I'm so passionate about one equipping people to hear the voice of God, but to, to releasing it to other people. How much better is it when we, we want to we're supposed to encourage, but how much better is and we asked God, what does he want to say? Because he knows things that we don't?

Yeah, absolutely. I want to talk about that in just a moment. But back to something that you said that kind of turned on the lights for me. You said, whenever you hear God say something, but you don't understand it, your response was to sit back and kind of wait it out. Let's talk about that a little bit before we go forward and talk about encouraging others because we need to make sure that we're hearing from God first. Because it's great to have nice things to say to other people. But we can also we don't want people to be drinking from a fire hose. You know, whenever God just wants us to give them a nice cup of cool water. Sometimes that's that's more received than just a fire hose. Tell me tell me about discernment and how that works for you.

Okay, so, um, before when I was first learning, I realized that I could really overwhelm people a lot with kind of the information Or the knowledge that I got. And so it was kind of trial and error. So I always tell people, and I always tell my kids learn from my mistakes, don't repeat them. And so when I begin to fine tune my ability to hear from God, I just begin to ask him questions. He wants us to be hungry for the things of him. And so when he speaks something to us, sometimes we have to ask him, is this for now? Is this for later? Or is this just for me to pray through? And you have to discern that because sometimes he'll say something to you. That isn't for you to release, but it's for you to know. So you can pray into or for someone, and they'll have to wait for him. Because we always think there's just an urgency when God speaks, and sometimes there is right but sometimes it's him, working those things in and through us to get us where we need to be.

And sometimes God speaks those things so that we can look at people through his eyes.

Absolutely. In fact, I share this story in my new Bible study that's coming out about the missing puzzle. Peace. I called it the missing piece. And I was doing ministry at this women's event and the pastor said, Oh, will you do some prophetic ministry? Sure. So I was just doing some prophetic ministry and then this young girl had come to me for prayer. And there was other people on the ministry prayer line, but she was waiting for me. And as she stepped up to get ministered to, the Lord said, She's suicidal. You can't You can't say that. Yeah, we're joking. Me recital. I mean, how is that gonna make you feel when the Lord speaks something to you, you need to think about how you're going to receive it. If somebody said that to you.

That's good. That's very good, Debbie.

Yeah. I had no relationship with her. I'm a speaker that comes in. I'm not even from that area. And the Lord is telling me she's suicidal. And so I have a responsibility to be very careful what I say to her, because she could either go, Oh, great, God knows and nobody's you know, he's not stopping me. Or great. God's revealing everything about me. What else does she know? And then that could cause shame and condemnation. And so I was like, I just knew the Lord said, She's suicidal. And I knew I needed to step back. And I said, Okay, Lord, then how do I speak to her? Because I know I can't say that. So like, I'm praying in my mind, as she's like, there. And I just was like, Hey, what are you here for? And she's like, I just want a prophetic word. I want to hear what you're saying. And I was like, okay, you don't have a specific prayer need. And the whole time, I'm just like having this dialogue with the Lord. And then the Lord showed me a picture of a puzzle. And he showed me the picture of this piece of the puzzle that was missing. And she was holding that piece. She was holding that piece of the puzzle. And she was intentionally not putting it into the bigger picture. And so I just said to her, I released the picture to her because and then I just said, and here's, here's my sense about that, is that you are the missing piece to the puzzle. And if you're missing from this puzzle, the entire picture is not complete. And I don't know about you, but when I'm doing a puzzle if there There's one piece missing, and I can't complete it, then there's so much frustration and I'm looking and I'm searching for that missing piece. And I'm thinking, did they lose it at the factory? Or did my kids steal it? Or did the dog eat it? You know? So we were talking and she's like, you have no idea. And here's this young girl, she was somewhere between 18 and 20. I lifted her chin up, and I said, Look me in the eyes. I said, I do to know, I know exactly where you're at and what you're going through, and God wants you to know that you are an intricate piece to the puzzle. And if you were missing, then the puzzle wouldn't be complete. And she just broke down and she started crying. And she confessed to me. I'm having suicidal thoughts. Nobody cares. Nobody sees me. And it opened this whole time of ministry, but I knew I couldn't release that word. You're suicidal? Because it would have just, she would have just went great. You know, I mean, I don't know somebody said that to me at coke like, Okay, well, you're off your rocker or I would Feel so much shame and condemnation, or I would go Okay, so and God doesn't care. With that I began to minister to her, then I actually said, Can I have permission to put you in contact with the pastor's wife, who was then going to get somebody because I wasn't from that area. But we have a responsibility. When God share something with us that we begin to ask him, What do you want me to do? Do I need to release it? Do I just need to pray through it? And then if I release it, what's my responsibility afterwards? cuz sometimes he just says, release it, and then it's up to them. We're just the mailman. We get to deliver the mail. But we don't get to come back to see if you paid your bills.

That's a great way to put that. And I love how God God knows the end from the beginning. And I love that he showed you the bigger picture at first, and then showed you how and gave you direction on how to share that with her in a way that she could receive it as an encouragement rather than an admonition That's such a beautiful demonstration of how God wants to communicate with us. And I love that whole puzzle piece thing because I can relate to that a little bit because years ago, we would always my family would always do a Christmas puzzle. I'm really good at figuring out where the puzzle pieces go. Well, my sister wanted to put a puzzle piece in so she actually hit a few, and then brought them out after everything was all done. And I'm going nuts trying to figure out where is this puzzle piece that's missing? And she just walks over and said, Do you mean this piece? And she just puts it in? Is it all done? Like, I was so mad, but I saw that there's the bigger picture. And I totally understand that word that you gave her speaks to me too, because I know that that frustration of feeling like this doesn't fit. And so if you are somebody who's listening right now and you feel that you don't fit, God does have a plan for your life. And he has a place for you. He has a call for you. And that word can be for you. Just because Debbie gave it to somebody else, doesn't mean that God isn't going to speak that same thing through her to other people. Absolutely. Sometimes a word is directly to somebody. And sometimes the word it can kind of take a little bit of a meandering path to get there. But God can still speak through a word no matter when it was spoken.

Absolutely. I you know, and it's so funny because I talked about this, I didn't talk about this in the gift of prophetic encouragement, but I talked about it in the Bible study. And I talked about the ripple effect of a word. And I talked about how when you speak a word to somebody, you never know who else is going to touch or effect, and that she probably shared that with people and it touched and affected everybody in her life. But then as I've shared the stories, and as I've related those things, where people read it, then they say, hey, this ministered to me too. And that's a great thing about God is when he speaks, it's for us, no matter who we are, and no matter how many years later, or days later or Moments later, even when you're hearing because God speaks through somebody prophetically if something inside of you quickens, he's like he's a big enough god, he's like, That's for you, too.

I love it. I love it. So the things we've been talking about already, you know, God, your view of God originally was that I was speaking to God, I'm talking to him. And he's just too busy to respond to me. And what we've been talking about right now is that I can speak to so many people, all at the same time, and individually at the same time, as well

and individually.

That's kind of like, you know, when your pastor preaches a sermon, this happens to us a lot, like well preach a sermon, and then somebody will come out like, Oh, that's how it touched me when you said, blah, blah, and I don't think

and they're like, No, you totally did. It totally spoke right to where I was at. Yeah. Okay. We're good.

That's great. That's great. So what are some other ways that God speaks to you, Debbie?

Oh, you know, when I first started to understand that God was speaking, I would get one word like literally, like you said at the beginning, like one word that has like layers of that, then I would get pictures. And then he would develop that more to where then impressions, thoughts, words, scriptures. He also speaks through dreams. I was a dreamer. I am a dreamer. But I used to dream all the time vivid colors all the time, until this one time when I said, and I was teaching on it, and I was like, yeah, that's the only way that God can speak to me because the only time My mouth is shut. And I heard him say, I heard him say, Oh, really, and I went, Oh, I'm in so much trouble. And so I went through a season where he took me through a season of not giving, I mean, we dream as scientific. We dream every night, but I woke up not remembering it. And the dreams that he would give me were very prophetic. But he took me through a season to teach me that it was not the only way that he wanted to communicate with me. And so as we look in the word we can see, you know, you know, angels deliver messages, dreams. Pictures, you often said what You see, and then they had to respond thoughts, impressions of actual words, one word. And then there's other things like he'll speak through nature. he'll speak through music for me going to the movies, like I love the movies, it's my way to unwind, to recharge to escape for just a little bit. And I love going to the movies. I just I love watching that. And so he can make a movie really good. Or he can make a good movie really bad behind depending on what he wants to do when I'm sometimes I have to go see a movie more than once. Because the first time I see it, he'll begin speaking to me about the prophetic nature of that movie. And what he's been speaking to me and he's like, reinforcing it, and then I'll have to go back again and go, Oh, yeah, wait, I mean, that has happened to me so many times. And so people are like, that speaks to you at the movies.

Yes, yeah. Could you give me an example. I'm interested to hear that I

can. I can. Just recently I went to see frozen two. So I was with my girlfriend. She six kids, she's like, let's go to the movies. Okay, we're going with six kids to the movies. So frozen two. And it really is talking about a season of transformation, a season of change your clarity and your vision coming about. And I know people are like, how to speaking to you through a Disney cartoon movie. But the entire time I'm watching this movie, it was like, I miss so much of it. So on Super Bowl Sunday, I went back with my daughter to the movie. She's like, Mom, let's go see this, you know? And I'm like, actually, yes. And I'm sitting there. Like, I don't remember this part at all. And she's like, what would you do it? And I said, I had six kids with us speaking and I kept saying to her, do you see the prophetic sense in that? Do you see this? And it was all about like, change and transformation and how you go into this, the cloudy, foggy woods, right? That's where we're at in our lives, and that we don't see clearly because we're in this fog, but yet it's our reality, but that through that God is doing this transformation in this change process, and then all of a sudden the cloud lifts, and we come out. And it was really talking about doing the next right thing, like we want to see so much further down the road. But we don't sometimes that just gives us what's right in front of us. And so it was so intriguing to me that he began speaking to me through this frozen movie that I had to go watch it twice to get what to get what he was talking about. And then before that, we've been in a really difficult kind of transition season of stuff at the church and coming into a new thing. I went to this movie with my husband, and he did not want to go to it, but I was like, okay, it's better than anything else is out right now. And so we went to it, and we were just really wrestling through like, Okay, what do we do? Do we stay do we go? Is God calling us into something else? And the Lord had been speaking to him to be faithful, but I hadn't got a word about it. And so this one character in the movie goes, and she was kind of asking the same question like times are changing and things are changing. So it's Is there any relevance to what we're doing here? And then the person I was talking to her said, Yeah, you're the heart of this community. If you were missing, the community would be missing something. And then her response was so we battle on it was just like it just struck me in the Lord's like, that's your marching orders. So I said to my husband later, why do you get be faithful and why do I get Babylon? He said, that's our personality. He's totally true. He needed to hear be faithful. You know, you're not done. I have things for you. Yes, I'm rearranging. Yes, I'm pruning. Yes, I'm taking you to something else. And when we're going through that transformation season, it's like fall right, the leaves fall off. But the trees are dormant because they're, they're growing from the inside out to then release the beauty of what's next in the next season. And that's where we found ourselves so I thought it was really intriguing. That back in October, I get this bottle on and then Just this last week, I'm watching frozen, and it was like, it's all about this season of change, and do the next right thing. And God is going to begin to open you up. And that's just the way he he works with me. And sometimes my family doesn't like going to the movies with me, because I like elbow that prophetic thing right there. They're like, Mom, please, you know,

can we just watch the movie for once? Please?

watch the movie.

So as we're, as you're talking about this, I'm sure that the people could be saying, well, Debbie, you just have a lot of a DD and you just can't pay attention to these movies. So you're getting different things out of it. And I know that that's that's not the case that God can speak and does speak through so many different ways. You mentioned nature and through messages or books, or there's different ways that God speaks to everybody. Again, how do you discern, then that is God and not add taking over at the movie theater?

Exactly. Yeah. Well, so one of the first things that I tell people is when you think that it's a God speaking to you. You just need to ask just like Samuel did in First Samuel chapter three, right? He needed to respond in faith. Hey, God, if that's you, I'm listening. And so when you get something like that, I've experienced it long enough that I can go Okay, God, this is you. If it's not you then let me know. But back before it was like, is this is this you speaking to me? Like are? Are you trying to get my attention? If so, I'm listening. What else do you want to say? Because sometimes he'll do something that will get our attention. But he needs us to respond in faith. It's like this. It's like I always say, my husband loves TV. But when the TV is on, and I'm talking, he is not listening to me. He will be saying, Uh huh. So if I asked him to do something as I'm running out the door and the TV is on and he said, Uh huh. And I come home later, and it's not done. He's like, I don't remember you asking me to do that. No, no, I did. And you said, Uh huh. And I realized, Hey, I didn't have his full undivided attention. Same with my kids right there watching TV. So I've learned Okay, I got to stand in front of the TV like, Hey, can we have like two minutes? When the commercial comes? Can you listen to me, and then I needed their undivided attention. And that's kind of the way it is with God. He wants to speak to us. And he's speaking all the time, all around us. But he wants our undivided attention. So that will really listen. And so he'll do these things. People always say, Oh, that was a coincidence. I don't think so. I think it's usually God bumping up against our life. I think God is bumping up and he's waiting for us to respond in faith. Hey, God, is that you? If it is you, I'm ready to listen. I'm available. And what else do you want to say to me?

Yeah, you know that that kind of goes along with this theme that I have for this podcast of Where's your heart burning along the way? And so recognizing that is one of the goals that I have is because I don't want to miss where Jesus is walking with me in my daily life. And I don't want to put Jesus in a box where he's just on Sundays or he's just in my quiet time and I'm doing the rest of my life on my own. What you just said in response to God, God is that You if it is, what more do you have to say? I'm listening. That is a powerful, powerful statement of obedience. I love that. Because sometimes we feel that our heart is burning. Because God is doing something. Sometimes we just are like, well, I don't know what I'm doing. But I love that I'm going to try to remember that all the time. God is Is that really you? And if it is, what more do you have to say, I'm listening. I'm listening. That is something that everybody needs to take away from that so that we don't miss those opportunities. So Debbie, what has happened in your life that has showed you that Jesus was walking with you, but you didn't realize it until you look back?

Okay, so how until I looked back, it's really interesting because like, being in the church, you know, from the time I was five, I had this concept of until you really have this experience and encounter with Jesus. And sometimes in the moment you don't realize it. It's not until after the fact that you look back and you went home. He was with me all along. I mean, we say the scriptures that he will never leave us. He will never forsake us. But sometimes we're in we're in the middle of it, right? We understand it. And so when I look back, and even when I didn't understand it, like when he said did not give you everything you prayed for, I was like, aha, Yes, you did, actually, every single one of those three points. The problem was is that I wanted to control the outcome. And I wanted to control the way that he answered my prayer and he had a way better plan. And so it's learning to trust that God has something bigger and better through that now, it's taken me many years. And like this year, I think I finally got it like this year, I think I finally understood like I was asking, I know not to ask the why question. Like, why did this happen? More? So what do I need to learn and what are you saying to me through this, but I found myself in this last nine months season, wanting to ask the why question and then realize that That, wait a minute, in Romans eight, that he says that he works all things together for the good of those who love Him. So if he's going to work that out, and if he's all seeing and all knowing, and we're in relationship, he is working things out in me for his good. I used to say to people, I used to be a control freak, like I controlled everything like, okay, kids, you can't go outside of the house unless you look good. And your Christmas tree had to have the ribbon perfectly on the thing. And I'm like, yeah, let's just throw it up. And kids throw the order. I mean, they're in their 20s now, but they're like, why didn't you do this when we were younger? And learning that God really is in control of it all. And it's learning to trust him through the process. And I think that that's the thing that as I look back that when I was in my early 20s, and he picked us up and moved our entire family, away from everything, we knew that he was in control. It wasn't the way that I wanted him to answer it. It wasn't the way that I figured he would answer it, but he had a bigger plan that I didn't see and I needed to trust him. And looking back, I can see that. And that's when the thing inside of me became awakened to this reality that God was real. He wanted to speak to me. He knew me intimately. And he actually had not just responded to my prayer in action, but he gave me everything I had asked for. Just not in the container. I was looking for it.

Yeah, it's a the overflow that God gives us. I guess it doesn't. He doesn't fit in the boxes that we try to put him in. No, he doesn't. Thank you for sharing about that, Debbie.

Absolutely. Thanks for asking.

Yeah, if you could go back in time to that place, I guess. Or even younger, wherever it might be wherever you want it intersect your life again, and you could impart some wisdom to yourself. What would you tell younger Debbie? What what's happening in your life, that that would be the place that you're intersecting as well?

That's a good question. Oh, goodness. You know, I think it was like one of those things that that people always do, like, what would I tell my younger self Looking back at all the times when I was worried or anxious and wondering how it was going to work out or making it trying to make it work out the way I wanted, that it really is about trusting God in the process, and that if you have relationship with him, that you have to trust that relationship, and that he's a good good father, and then it gives good gifts. And that was something that I understood in concept. Like I understood it, because I read it in the scriptures and being in church from the time we were five, even though it was a conservative denomination. I mean, I had a foundation of scriptures. In fact, even now, some people are like, well, you're a prophetic person. Why do you have so many scriptures in your book? Because the good

word of prophecy,

you should, you should because I said that's the foundation that I grew up in is was like, show me in the word show me in the word, it's not in the word Then show me in the word. And so it was one of those things where I realized that I couldn't understand everything of a spiritual nature, but I had to trust God and when you're in relationship A trust is a pivotal key. Like, if you don't trust those that you're in relationship with, then you do try to control manipulate twists, make things work out, you try to get your hands in the middle of it. And God is saying, I got this, it may not look like the way you want it to look, but I have bigger plans. And so I would go back and I would tell myself to just take my hands off of it to let go of the anxiousness and the need to fix everything, and trust God in the process and to do the next right thing, really to do the thing that's in front of me, instead of the bigger picture. Like, I can see the bigger picture and I'm like, I can help you get me there. And God's like, No, no, no, I don't need your help, Debbie. And I'm like, No, but I'm good. I can help you get me to that point. Like I see that. And it's really stepping back and allowing God to open doors that need to be open and not pushing them open. And that is stuff that I've had to learn my entire life. So what

what age of Debbie, would you give that information to

I would probably give that To the teenager, Debbie. Yeah, you know, you know, when you're, you know, five to eight or nine really made the decision to follow the Lord, even though I didn't understand the concept that he was real. And he spoke because of the church that we are a part of. But it was really in that teenage years, when I began to go, I got this, I can do this. And I began to take control. So I'll probably go back to 1415 would teenage Debbie, listen to future Debbie? Oh, well, probably not. I mean, my kids never listened to me as their parent at any age until, you know, they're in there. They're in their mid 20s now, and they're like, Mom, you were so right. Oh, I know. And so now they're like, I wish I would have listened to you. And I think that's that, you know, as a parent, you know, we want our kids to learn from our mistakes and to listen to us because we know more than they do because we've experienced more life. I would hope that maybe there'll be something different in me that I would do it. But the reality is, is I was a teenager. So it was no at all. But that's kind of one of those things like you would hope that you would trust

your older self, if you could time that like, Listen, this is all going to work out, it's going to work out way better than you ever thought if you just leave it to God, to get part of that wisdom that you would impart to your younger self, you've actually put that in a book. Yes. And so the gift of prophetic encouragement and that's what you're going to be unreal live talking about. And you also have a Bible studies workbook. That's coming out February 11. So if you're listening to this podcast, after that, it's already out, it's already available. There'll be links for that in the show notes and you can get that will cover w information a little bit later. But tell me what inspired you to actually take that information that you would give your younger self and actually put it into a book and then to to the second level of going to a Bible study which is coming out

now. The Bible study is the same title the gift of prophetic anointing. But the subtitle is living a lifestyle of encouragement. I'm a natural born encourager, I always look at things I'm very optimistic I look at the glass is not half empty, it's half full. And I can always spin things to the positive side of things, right? God has called us to be encouragers. He says, I want you to encourage everyone, as long as it's called today. And you know, the whole thing about the prophetic is that it literally puts courage into people. And I need that on a daily basis. And I want to be that for other people. But when I came to the realization that God was real, he was speaking to me, but he wasn't just speaking to me. For me. He wanted this relationship that I had with him this way to be an overflow of a relationship with others. And then I realized that's the piece that we have to take this not just keep it to ourselves, but we then have to deposit it in part it release it to other people so that they can have their own encounter and their own relationship with the Lord. Whether they already know him, it will take them to a deeper level. Or if they don't know him yet, then it will awaken them to the truth that God knows who they are. That's really the gospel message to go into all the world, right when you when you can hear the very words of God to encourage other people, it blesses them. It encourages them they literally have courage built up, their strengthened, their comforted. And then there's this boldness that rises up inside of them to really go after the things that have been in their heart that they've been burning with because they know they're

not alone. So you've got a few chapters in here that caught my eye, okay, prophecy, one on one, that's always a good place to start. I like chapter nine, putting it or put it on the altar testing prophecy. And that's something that with an encouraging word, sometimes there's not always the opportunity to test it in the way that like, we would normally think about it. But sometimes we just got to get ourselves out there and say, Okay, I'm going to let God do this with this encouraging words. And then I like chapter 12. Also you have helped wanted perfect, like, scratch that out ordinary people only God wants to take the ordinary and make it extraordinary man. So what's one of your favorite chapters? And what's one of your favorite things? If you could tell somebody read this chapter of my book, if you only have 15 minutes to read a chapter, what would that be?

Yes, I think for me, one of my favorite chapters in the book is God wants you. I don't think it's titled that. But it goes along with perfect slash ordinary people. Yeah. And that God is calling us to be radically ordinary. The Holy Spirit changes that for us. We just look at our lives. I look at my life and I go, Oh, I am a radically ordinary person. And people are like, what? Actually I see myself as ordinary. I'm just I'm Debbie. I have things that I'm supposed to do. I have real things. I have kids, I have to do the dishes and do the laundry and do all the stuff that you do. But yet God has also called me as a believer In a Christ follower to live a life that's radical, and what does that look like to some people that kind of scares them? I dig deeper in that in the Bible study, but it's really about God chooses you. God is choosing us, ordinary us to partner with him. And then if you look, I think it's early on in the book like chapter three or chapter four, the end it's the think on it section about God chooses you and I have this whole list of spiritual giants, right? That when we read the scriptures were like Shanks. So glad I wasn't Noah, because I'd be like, build a what? No, or, Abraham, you want me to go where? And that, that when we look at their life, we think that they were these super huge giant people, but they had real issues. They were ordinary people like you and I, what changed was that they were radical in their faith and obedience to God. And so God chooses us in our imperfections in our inabilities, he sees what's in us, and He wants to pull that out. And so he speaks to what he sees in us and he chooses us in our ordinariness and says, will you partner with me? And will you do something extraordinary by partnering with me and I think that like chapter 12, that early on chapter like those two things put together. That is my favorite piece because that was really my life story. I kept thinking God's not going to use me doesn't understand. I didn't even like to speak in front of people. I was the one that kept my mouth shut. I'll be behind the scenes, I'll do all this stuff. And God was like, ya know? And so we need to understand that God does choose us. He's choosing us. Yes, he sees all of those imperfections. He sees all of those things that aren't always great, but he's chooses to work with us in spite of those things. And if we partner with him, then we can do radically ordinary. Amen.

I want to be somebody that does radically ordinary things, make the things that people think are radical, be just ordinary life. Yes. I think sid roth says it in his world is naturally supernatural.

Is he does God naturally supernatural, I think is Yeah,

God has a life. That's better for us than we could imagine. Hmm, your story has definitely exemplified that. And God wants to have a relationship with us. Absolutely he does. Debbie, would you speak to somebody that's listening right now, that feels that they're ordinary, and that's all they're ever going to be?

Absolutely. One of my favorite scriptures is in First Corinthians that talks about, you know, the God takes the ordinary plain things, right to confound the wise, that he'll take things that aren't as they seem, so that he gets the glory in that. And if you're feeling that you're just an ordinary person, I want to say that's a good place to be, it is a great place to be because that means that you can't do it on your own. That means that you have to partner with God. You have to allow the Holy Spirit to move in you. And so that is a great place to walk in humility and to do exactly what Jesus asked us to do. Right. He is Kingdom Principles are upside down. You know, in the world, it's like, well, you want to be great. You got to rise to the top Jesus was like men and I want to be the great in the kingdom, you got to be the least in the kingdom. And so if you're feeling that you're just ordinary, then great. But what makes you extraordinary is when you partner with the Holy Spirit, and you say yes to what God is asking you to do, and you simply walk out in obedience. In First Samuel, he said, obedience is better than sacrifice. God just wants our obedience. He wants our Yes, whatever it is, we don't have to do it on our own. We allow him to do it with us. And so he wants to take your ordinary he wants to add it with his spirit, his ability and he wants to make something extraordinary out of your life if you let him.

Amen. Would you pray for that person?

Absolutely. Absolutely. So Lord, I just thank you so much for all of the listeners out there, wherever they find themselves on the spectrum of being ordinary or not even understanding who you are, but God and all the way to feeling like I am radically ordinary Lord. You're always working in us to move us from glory to glory, and we're actually We see ourselves but especially those that say God would never choose to use me because of Lord, would you minister to them? Would you send your Holy Spirit to them right now? And would you awaken them to the truth that you choose them and that you have chosen them because of who they are and the experiences of their past. And in spite of those things, God that you are wanting to release your Holy Spirit to partner with them, so they can step out and walk and do the things Jesus that you've called us to do in obedience, and make them extraordinary things for the kingdom of God. So we just asked for you to just touch them to minister to them, and give them new eyes to see and open the eyes of their heart to an understanding God of who you are and what you're doing in them, Lord, we are Your army. We are ordinary people that aren't perfect, but we say yes to you. And so Lord, we give you our Yes. And we say, Lord, make us brave. Make us bold now. US courageous, and make us extra ordinary as we step out and partner with your spirit to accomplish the things that you've asked us to do today and every day. In your name we pray,

Amen. Amen. Thank you so much for that, Debbie. You're welcome. What is a life verse that you have that just kind of has been an anchor for you, some of you you've held on to during tough times?

Oh, gosh, yeah. Okay, so I have a couple of the whole Romans chapter eight chapter, I used to be somebody who dealt with fear a lot. And then Ephesians 320. Those are my two go to life verses but since we just talked about the ordinary piece I'm going to really talk about in Romans chapter eight, it says that we've not been given a spirit of fear but a spirit of sonship. And by it we cry, Abba, Father. And because fear, fear of man, fear of people fear of failure, fear of getting it wrong. All of those things held me back from really stepping out to one, hear God for myself, and then to begin to release it to other people. And the fact is somebody I had a mentor and he pointed his finger at me and he said, Debbie, would you just open your mouth and speak? And I was like, No, this is huge. I can't do that. And he said, Don't let fear hold you back. Don't you trust that God is big enough to overcome anything? And I was like, Yes, I do. And so for all of those people that struggle with the spirit of fear, you need to understand we need to understand who we are whose we are, and that it's not us. But it's this partnership with God, that makes us overcomers of overcoming fear. And then that goes to Ephesians 320. Right that now to him who is able to an exceedingly abundantly more than we can imagine, according to the power at work within us. It's not our power. It's God's power. It's the power that raised Jesus from the dead that's working in us as we partner with God, our ordinary life, as we partner with that our ordinary life becomes extraordinary, because it's the power of God working in us to affect the people outside. Absolutely.

And so what you're telling me is that everybody can have the gift of prophetic encouragement. Absolutely. And you You can have that from God. But you can also get Debbie's book for that same title as well, the gift of prophetic encouragement. Where can we get that Debbie?

Right. You can get it on Amazon, and everything's on Amazon. You can get you can get them on Amazon. The gift of prophetic encouragement book is at all major online retailers, and even in Barnes and Noble stores, you can get it off my website. The Bible study right now is only going to be on Amazon and then on my website as well. For now, I'm still working on the distribution channels for that one, but it it's available there.

So everybody can hear God and encourage other people, just like you've learned and thank you so much for writing this book. And if you want more information about Debbie, you can go to Debbie kinderman com, d e BB IE Kitt er ma n.com. And you can see all of her stuff there. She's got a great podcast as well and it's called dare to hear h EA are not he? He dare to hear. And she talks with prophetically gifted people as well, and shares a lot more from her life and her story and what God's sharing with her. So I encourage you to check all that stuff out. And Debbie, so thank you so much for just being with me along the way. I'm definitely going to maybe embroider this somewhere that God is that you that speaking? If it is, what more do you have to say? I'm listening. And I think that's a good way to wrap this up is that I'm listening. God, I want to hear what you have to say. I want to respond to what you have to say. And I'm going to be obedient with that as well. As we are obedient with what God has been speaking to us. He will continue to speak to us more and more and trust us with more and more. And it's going to be awesome to see how we can be part of advancing God's kingdom. Debbie, thank you so much for allowing me to join you along your way.

Well, thank you, john. It was it's my honor to be here to share with your listeners to share with you So thank you for having me on your show. And I'm excited as people become awakened to this truth along their way that God would burn inside of their heart that they too can do this. So thank you to john.

Thank you for listening to along the way. If you've enjoyed joining me along my way, please share this with a friend who you think will be encouraged by this podcast. Also, please rate review along the way on iTunes. That helps more people discover along the way. And subscribe to this podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcast and you can follow us on Facebook, Instagram and my website along the way dot media. I hope that you've enjoyed this part of my journey. And may you realize when Jesus is walking with you along your way