“The Great Opportunity” - Dave Buehring AlongTheWay 81

And so for me, my life has been a step of obedience at a time. And it's been over the last few years that and even now leaning into a stride that God has begun to give me. But if your listeners can just realize, hey, you might be 35 and go into How much longer do I need to be under this leader? Here's the deal, the sooner that you lean into what God has you to learn, the faster you walk through some of these processes.

Welcome to along the way. I'm John Matarazzo, your host and fellow traveler, thank you for joining me along my way as I try to become more like Jesus every day. I'm so excited to share this conversation with all of you. My guest today has been a life changing mentor in my life over the years. During my eight years in youth of the mission as a missionary leader, I've gone through my fair share of ups and downs. One of the most difficult times where I wanted to give up is when God connected me with Dave fearing, you'll hear more of that story in our conversation, but I want you to know how pivotal he has been in my life. Dave's words are very big in my ears, and God used him to change my perspective on the Great Commission in a good way. Dave beard is the author of the book, the great opportunity. And in my humble opinion, he is the best at helping followers of Jesus become disciple makers. If you want to know how you can know Jesus better and partner with him to make disciples, then you will really enjoy this conversation. I'll get to that in just a moment. But as always, I want to thank you for listening to along the way. I hope that you like what you hear and you subscribe, you can connect with me online as well. All of my socials and contact links are in the show notes. And you can check out all of my episodes and my website along the way dot media. I hope that you check that out and you connect with me, I would love to hear from you. I also have a Patreon page if you want to help me to continue to put out more of these along the way episodes. If you'd like to become a Patreon, simply go to patreon.com slash along the way and select the level. The link to become a Patreon supporter is also in my show notes. And now here's my along the way conversation with Dave Buehring. Well, Dave Buehring It is great to finally have you on along the way you have been such a god blessing in my life. From the first time that you and I met back in 2009, you have been one of those voices that is big in my ears. We're going to explain a little bit about what that phrase particularly means in this conversation. But Dave bearing is like the disciple maker of disciple makers, if I could put it in any term. And it is a pleasure to have you on along the way. Dave, thanks for being here. Yeah, it's always a privilege to be able to hang out, do things with you. Yeah. So Dave, you and I met in 2009. And I just wanted to kind of touch on this story a little bit, before I set up and allow you to tell me about your journey with the Lord. I was in youth of the mission at the time. And I'm kind of just setting the stage for everybody that's listening that might not know this story already. But in 2009, I was leading a group of young missionary students, and we were at a conference in North Carolina just outside of Charlotte. And I was at a point in this school where I was the guy that was in charge, and we had 11 or 12 students, something like that. It was a while ago. So I forget the exact number. But it seemed like there was a lot more than 11 or 12. Just because of how difficult it was for me. And I was at a place where I was literally telling God, I can't do this anymore. And I'm about to give up. Whenever I get back to the ministry center. I'm just gonna say I'm done. I'll go clean toilets. I'll do whatever else. I just don't want to be doing this discipleship, training school thing anymore. I don't want to be in charge. And then God brings Dave bearing into my life. And the things that Dave imparted into me in that short week that we were there really set me up for changing how I view discipleship and took the complexity that I had built into discipleship and kind of made that much more palatable and understandable and bite sized, which that's how I handle things, bite sized pieces. It's so much better that way. Yep. Really, Dave baring had the opportunity to set me straight and helped me with the disciple making process. And then it just started this relationship between youth of the mission Pittsburgh, and you and I think they've had you speak at at pretty much every school since then, in some way, shape, or form. But you have had such a great impact on my life. And I'm grateful that I get to share your journey with my audience as well. Thank you. So you've written many books on discipleship, and I'm so grateful to have you here. So it'll be fun. Yeah. So I would love for you Dave to share your story of how God has brought you to where you are now, because we have the common past of being in youth with a mission but God's brought you on on quite a unique journey. So I'd love to hear how God has how God has led you. Okay.

So I always have to begin with the fact that I realized much of who I am, what I do now has to do with my growing up years in that I was one of those kids that had the privilege of having a mom that would get up at 430 every morning and pray for her husband, her two boys and the nations of the world. And so I know that much of what I do now is tied to that I had a mom that regularly prayed. And early on in my life, there were several situations where I watched my dad obey the Lord. And so as a young guy, that really got imparted in me, and you know, to say to those that are listening, that are, say, young parents, or older parents, you just, you just never know what your kids take away from those things. But they they impacted my life. When I was in high school, I was planning to go into broadcast journalism, and I ended up graduating from high school and heading from the state of Minnesota where I was to youth with a mission Hawaii. And I was planning to be there five months, then back to school, and I ended up there seven years, and

feeling very well.

Yes, I know you do. And I'm very grateful for it. It was a time in my life as an 18 to 25 year old I'm 61 now and so it was a formative time in me and I had Loren Cunningham, the founder of y, Wham and several yym leaders that took a very kind, genuine interest in my life and begin to invest things in me and give me opportunities to kind of stretch my muscles a little bit. And it helped me discover my gifts and help me be pushed in a direction that never let me go back to broadcast journalism. Although in the world we live in today, there's lots of podcasts or video things that we have the opportunity to do. I was there, john was 25 and then spent a number of years pastoring in Minnesota, in California was involved in an organization where he mobilized short term teams into Russia, to a community called Krasnodar where we had an opportunity to bring the gospel. We moved here where I live now in the Franklin, Tennessee area in 1991, continued to pasture here for about 13 years. And then since 2006, I had the privilege full time of leading lion's share, which is an organization that focuses on disciplemaking. Yes, we help churches, for sure. But we also walk alongside societal leaders shaped them in the ways of God and then ask them to pass the same to others that work in that same field. So that's a lot of what I do.

Yeah. So I wanted to kind of take apart some of those elements and share I know some of the stories that you told me that have really made an impact in my life happened in your in your youth emission days, and then we'll talk about some of those other things as well. But you got to spend a good bit of time with Lauren Cunningham good bit of one on one time with him. And specifically, I believe there was a conversation that He really said some important things to you, that I'd love for you to be able to share as well.

Yeah. So john, when I was 20, I had been there in Kona for a couple of years, and a man by the name of Peter Jordan, who is Lauren's kind of right hand guy came to me one day and said, Hey, I want to ask you about something. And he said, Would you be open to doing some travel with Lauren? And I said, well, like what does that mean? And he said, Well, oftentimes, he's in settings where he speaking and he needs somebody to kind of be, so this would have been the 80s, the brochure guy, you know, so that when he's speaking and he says, Hey, if you're just in a yym, discipleship training school, or you're interested in the short term outreach, come over here and see Dave, I said, Okay, and so anyway prayed about it, decided I was to do it, felt very honored to be asked, and there was a trip we went on, that was a just think it began in Texas, and then went to LA and then to Washington, DC, maybe over the span of seven to 10 days. And and on that trip, there was one of the flights that were on I believe LA to DC that he he asked me, he said, Dave, what do you think your gifts are? And if I'm really honest, john at 20, you know, I was still kind of new to it, figuring it out. I'll even have the full language for it. So told them what I was thinking and and then what he said to me at that moment, made a mark to this day, and here's what he said. I had told him I thought my gifts were and he processed it with me leadership and teaching. And so he said this, David doesn't matter how big the organizations are that you'll lead, or the size of the groups that you teach, and I've taught everywhere from groups of tourists. Three up to 1000s. So it doesn't, it won't matter. He said the way that God will use you, and the way that you need to think about this is investing to the third and fourth generations. And they quoted to me Second Timothy, chapter two, verse two that talks about Paul kind of first generation investing in Timothy, who invested in others, a third generation who invested in other faithful people, so four generations deep, right? And it made a mark on me. And I can I can say, john, that even though I lead things that I teach things, the core because of that conversation is, how do I pass things on to this person in such a way that it actually gets into their life? It's not just information the head, but it transforms the heart. Yeah.

So discipleship is something that seems a little scary, if you're not familiar with it. And because we there's, you might go to a church, or there's discipleship classes, or Yep, you know, there might be various different strategies for discipleship, but I know I was confused about what discipleship actually was. Whenever we first met, I went through the discipleship training school. So that very first word and and that is, this is discipleship. And so I just thought, okay, if I go through this class, if I go through this program, that I'm a disciple, thank God that that's not what it is. There's, there's a lot more to it. But it's also very simple compared to what I was what we had a tendency to make it as well. And so Dave, for you, what is discipleship? Because your definition of that really changed my life. Yeah, and made it accessible for me. So could you please explain what discipleship actually is?

Yeah. So you know, when I think of, like, if we begin with what's a follower of Jesus, there's somebody that reflects his character, like, what he's really like, there's somebody that walks in his ways of doing things, His Word tells us my ways aren't your ways, you know, but he teaches us His ways. And then it's been a part of the mission of Jesus through our own personality and gifts that he's given us. So with that in mind, I like to say that disciple making is reproducing the character ways and mission of Jesus and those around you expecting them to do the same and others. And so when I when I talk about the character of God, like, when I think of you, john, as a follower of Jesus, I see faithfulness. I see kindness, I see love, I see you desiring to model attitudes that Jesus would have? Well, part of the discipleship process is helping somebody character look more like Jesus. And so that means walking with them close enough that they may find themselves in a situation where you can say, Hey, you know, what, do you know that you really reacted to that situation, rather than just kind of being kind? Oh, I didn't know that I didn't, I never, you know. And so it's, it's walking close enough. And having trust where you invite that person to speak into your life. But it begins with our characters reflecting what God's like. So when someone leaves you, you've left an impression, not just by words spoken or things done, but just by your character. Then when it comes to walking in God's ways, I like to simplify it, john, from my own brain to think of God's ways is how he does things, okay. And so when you disciple somebody in God's ways, whether it's a leader, a business, woman, government person, regardless, it's helping them do things that are more like how Jesus would do it, you know, that could be in the way you relate, and the way you lead and the way that you serve, it could be a lot of things, but the ways of God is passing out, Hey, can I show you how Jesus would do this. So it's reflecting his character is reflecting his ways. And then it's helping that person find their own gifts and their place in the body of Christ, where, where they're where they're fulfilling the mission of Jesus, which is preaching the gospel, it's discipling, as one friend says, it's, it's reaching the lost. It's discipling, the found it's reconciling people to God. And so, yeah, so reproducing God's character ways and mission, and then helping them multiply the same and others. So it continues. Yeah.

Dave, you I just want to touch back on something that you said. And I think, yeah, unless you're really paying attention as you're as you're listening to this. I think most people would probably miss what you just said, you said, let me show you how Jesus would have dealt with this. And a lot of times, I think our normal response is, hey, you screwed up. You shouldn't have done it that way. But I love how you said, Hey, can I show you how Jesus would have done this? Can you just kind of unpack those two different, that dichotomy of views of how people Deal with correction and teaching. And when what the importance is of that? Yeah,

you know, you've heard me say this, john over the years that you can only speak in people's lives to the degree you have relationship. And so my assumption, which I know isn't always correct, but my assumption is in this conversation, what you're asking me is if you have a level of relationship with a person who's invited you to speak into their life, and by the way, Darlene, Lauren's wife pulled me aside, john, when I was probably about that same age 2021, I could show you right at the base in yym Kona where this happened. And she said to me, Dave, always remember this only speak into people's lives in the areas they've invited you into, don't try to speak into their lives outside of that, well, in society today, we just blow right past that, right? We just say if I got an opinion about it, you're gonna hear about it. But then we wonder why our relationships get screwed up. You know, that's good. So it was one of the principles I learned. So like with you, at first, you know, I think of sitting at that picnic bench there at the church and Charlotte, and you begin to ask me questions, and I, I would address those things. And then you invited me to come to the base in Pittsburgh, and we'd have more conversations, you invited me? And then there was a certain point that you said, Hey, I just want you to know, you have the freedom to if there's something I don't see, you think I should see? or right. And, you know, and but I had to earn that, you know, I had to earn that. And I think because we have relationship, it's like I know your heart, your heart is always to honor the Lord always to reflect him. It made it easy, you know, to never have to say, john, what do you think? Yeah, it made it easy just to be able to say, Hey, can I show you something? And because you are open, because we had relationship, like it wasn't just, this isn't just a one sided thing of how I was doing. It was also because you were open, you invited? You were teachable. And that's oftentimes the challenge I can run into because someone wants me to speak into their life, but they're not teachable. And then that becomes a frustrating thing, you know, on my end, but I think because discipleship is primarily a relationship of a little further along, follow Jesus walking with someone that's maybe not as far along in a particular area. It all hinges on relationship. And because you let me have a relationship with you, and you invited me to speak into your life, it made it a heck of a lot easier to do so. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Dave, we just talked briefly about the term teachable. And that's one of the things that, honestly, God has dealt with that in my life. And I've tried to always be a teachable person, because of the moment that I wasn't teachable. And it was brought to my attention. Sure, actually, I was my dad was trying to teach me some the proper way to catch a baseball over my shoulder. And I wasn't listening to what he had to say. And he just very calmly said, I can't teach you. And it like cut me to the core in a good way. In a good way. It wasn't my dad wasn't judging me. He just said I, I can't do something. Yeah, that you're not letting me help you with. Can you talk about teachability? Yes, I've become teachable because of that moment. And we've grown through them. I don't have daddy issues. Because of that at all. I'm just making it very clear. He is one of those moments that I can look back to. I say, because of a time where I wasn't teachable. Now I am. Yeah. Can we talk about that?

Yeah. Thanks for that story. That's a good one. Yeah. teachability has things attached to it for me. For example, let me choose other words, it means humility. Humility is attached to teachability. Because humility is a willingness to not only be known for who you really are, but a willingness to say, you know what, I don't know everything, right. Like even in the area that I'm gifted at, I don't know everything. And pride is one of the subtle things that, you know, can hinder us from being teachable because we, so let me let me write on a second word, humility and insecurities, okay, like, we can be insecure. And therefore, it's like, I don't know if you've ever heard this saying before, but I've watched it be true for many years insecurity, asserts authority, like when you're insecure, you got to put on kind of Hey, man, I know. I know. Yeah. And, and so sometimes I've run into people who want to be discipled, but because of past baggage of insecurity, or pride, which is the opposite of humility. I have to kind of navigate around those things. And to be honest, I'm willing to do that for a little while. If they're willing to say yeah, I have a problem with this. I want to learn keep pushing me. If someone just after a while the teach abilities, just not They're like, I'm dealing with a person like that in my life right now where it's either they know it all, or their insecurities will not allow them to take in more because then they feel like I'm here. I'm lowering my hand. My other hand, I'm here, and I can't, you know, right, and we play that game. And so I think teachability has to do with humility, number one. And secondly, I think there has to be this place of learning to be. Let me tell tell you this story, you might have heard me share this before my wife came to me one day, she'd been in a time of prayer. This is probably 15 years ago, and she was wrestling with some peers who were unlike her meaning in a good way. They just were different than how they're wired. It made her feel insecure. And the Lord showed her in a prayer time, he said, this, I want you to learn to be secure in who you are, and who you're not. And part of our insecurity dynamic is we need to learn to become secure in who we are. But we also become secure and who are not like what we're not good at. Right? So that more easily allows us in humility to say, I could really use some help here.

Yeah, knowing where you need help and knowing the areas that need to grow in humility, and then finding the right people to help you with that is very important. And that's a big step as a disciple heading towards a discipleship relationship.

Yes.

Speaking of discipleship relationship, how do you find people to a disciple you? And then later, let's talk on how we can help disciple others. Okay, but how do you how do you find somebody that that can help you be a better disciple?

Yeah, that's a great question I, the way that I like to look at this is, so if I'm looking for someone to pour into me, you want to find somebody who has experience in the area that you need growing in. So it's not just like, and this is where sometimes, you know, particularly as you get older, like into your 50s, and older peer relationships can help you with that. But when we're younger, in our teens, in our 20s, in our 30s, it's usually wise to find somebody older than you are more seasoned or inexperienced in the area where you want to grow. So like, say you want to grow in hearing God's voice more, find somebody who's been practicing that for a while, right? I think that's a really, that's a really important thing. Secondly, you want to find somebody that you trust, you know, because if it's a discipling relationship, it means you're going to get into issues of the heart. And so you want to find somebody who you can tell in their relationships that other people trust them. So I think seasoning experience as well as trust. And then the third thing would be you want to find somebody whose life you spiritually admire? You know that in other words, it's like, there's an admiration. It's like, I like to say it this way, when I think of the Lauren Cunningham's are the jack hayford to the Henry black cubbies. I want to be like you and I grew up. Yeah, you know, not a personality and all that, but just in the way that you handle yourself, your walk with the Lord. And you know, I think that's a that's a big one. And if I was to give you a fourth, you want to look for a heart link. That's natural. Okay, like, in other words, if it just seems like these other three, the trust the seasoning, you know, some of these pieces are there. But there's not a natural Connect. So to find somebody that's kind of in the, there's an easy rhythm to have with them. Is that lets it go further faster. Yeah,

I agree. And I'm grateful that there was that there was that connection between us whenever we first met to out? Yeah, cuz otherwise, we wouldn't be we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now. And, you know, what, 12 years or roughly 12 years later? I mean, that's kind of a, that's kind of a big deal. Yeah, just to know that your words are still very big in my ears. 12 years later, kind, I do want to unpack that that phrase, in just a moment. But I want to just kind of comment, you know, sometimes we're looking at, if we're gonna, if we want to be a disciple, sometimes we think we need to find all of those things. And we need to find one person that can disciple us in everything. Can you just address that? Because that I don't think that that's, you're not saying that you need to find one person that can basically be the person that you want to be when you grow up, but it can be kind of spread out. Can you just talk about that a little bit? And then what's your big ears? Not the big

my wife calls it you're, you're in good shape there. Yeah. Let me just say it this way. It's hard for us to find Yoda. Yes. You know, it's it's, it's just not one person. That I mean, if that happens in your life, just consider yourself very graced and blessed by the Lord but it's very rare that you find one person that becomes that and it can often put pressure on somebody who maybe doesn't have all the things that you need. So the way that I like to look at it is, so I'll throw out a few areas. So let's say you want to grow in your prayer life, that person that's walking with you right now on how to share your faith may have a good prayer life, but it might not be the person to pass that on to you. So let the one who's showing you how to share their faith, do that. And let the business person who's a godly business person show you how to be a good godly business person. But there might be a third person out there whose prayer life you admire. And that's, that's always a good starting place. When you run into somebody that you admire a certain area of their life, that might be a cue to you that they're worth praying about asking if they would help you in that area. So it's okay. It's okay. If you have three, four or five, even different people that are discipling you in different areas, but there may be a primary person that maybe disciples you in the core areas of your walk with Jesus, but it might be a completely different person who's discipling, you vocationally.

Right. And that's very important. And I'm glad that we just took that took a moment to kind of make that distinction. Yeah. Because otherwise you put a lot of pressure on finding that perfect person. Yeah, that can do everything. And you don't need to God brings up multiple times in your life for multiple reasons. Yeah, and it's good. So I've made mentioned now a few times about how your words are big in my ears. And that means a lot to me. And as we're looking for people to help bring along in their journey with the Lord and their, whether it be spiritually, vocationally, professionally, whatever it might be. Those are some of the things that have always stood out to me. whenever you've, whenever you've explained that, can you can you unpack what that phrase means? Yes. And just some of the other things that you're looking for whenever you want to pour into somebody else's money.

Yeah. So there's a friend of mine by the name of David shirk were longtime friends probably got to be 30 to 33 years now. And it's a phrase that I learned actually from him. And I've applied it since learning it from him to the discipleship world now over the last 20 years or so. And it's actually helps me know, john, the difference between, like, if there's a friendship, or there's a relationship serving relationship, or I can meet someone's need some way, and discipling relationship. And so the phrase in whose ears are your words, big is a way that you can begin this process. So let me say that, again, in whose ears are your words big. And what that means is, like your words have weight, you can tell when you give some advice, or counsel or input to that person, they actually listen and go do it and come back for more. Yeah, if you were finding relationships like that, I would submit and suggest to you that that's not just a coincidence, that actually may be the Holy Spirit in your life, kind of saying, Do you see I'm giving you favor in this person's life? that transforms that whole thing of how we look at it. And so, you know, when I see that, repeatedly, I begin to say, okay, Lord is is somebody that I'm supposed to do more investing in. And so john, it was natural, because I was in Pittsburgh at that time, usually twice a year in schools. So it was natural, I would see you there at the base. And so you know, even if you weren't in the school, we'd go out for dinner, or have lunch or something. And I'd asked you for an update on your life. And then you would often say, Hey, can you help me with this and that, right, and it was something that grew over time. And again, with that trust grows, you know, at the same time, but when I'm looking for who I can invest in, that's kind of the starting point that puts people like in the pool of possibilities, yeah, then I take another step. And I just use this because it's easy for my 61 year old mind to remember I look for people who are fast, fa St. And here's what that means. F is for people who are faithful, okay, the opposite of faithful would be flaky. Like, in other words, if we if we enter into this, are they just going to flake out on me? Or are they going to be faithful, A stands for available, meaning it's so important to them, that they're willing to make time for it? Meaning that I'm going to move things in my schedule. So I am available to do this. The S is servant hearted that in other words, is this somebody like if I pass this on to them? Are they going to want to serve other people by passing the same on to them, so it's some of that reproducing piece? And then the T is what we've talked about already teachable? Yeah. And so if I see somebody that's usually three out of those four, I'm usually willing to talk with them maybe about that fourth one and say, Look, I see these things in you and they didn't know I was necessarily looking at through that lens, but I'll just say to them for exam But let's say they're faithful, they're available, they seem to be the kind of people that would pass it on. But I'm getting stuck on the teachability thing, I might just have to say, look. So I see all these really good qualities, I just want to know. Like, when I lean into you on an issue that we need to talk about that I see, you could really grow and all that, are you going to be teachable? Or you're going to always be pushed back? And when you know, obviously, if somebody says that to you, and you've never seen it, they'll go, I didn't know I did that. Well, let me show you remember last time you remember the time before that? Oh, yeah, I see. It's like I always would counter with you with my own answer or defense or to Yeah, exactly. And we can talk about it. But I need to know that you're at least gonna let me go there. Got it. Are we good? there? I'm good there. Okay, let's go, you know. And so, in whose ears are your words big that I whittle it down of that pool of people who are fast. And then john, you know, obviously, with praying about all this, the last thing that I will do to make sure we're on the same page is like, let's say this is going to be a group that will meet weekly at 630 to 730, in the morning, before anybody else heads off to their jobs, Thursday mornings, and each week. What I may do then is I will say, Okay, here's, here's what I need to know, are you willing to match my commitment? Because I will be there, like, I will be there, you don't ever have I wonder if Dave's gonna show up. And so what I do, john is I look them in the eyes one at a time. So if like, there's a group of, say, seven or eight of them, I will just look them in the eyes like this. And I will say, Are you willing to match my commitment? And I say to them, if you can't, it's okay. But this isn't probably the right setting for us. No, let's continue in friendship, and I'll help you. But this is going to take another level. And, john, as you know, in the Bible, there's a difference between pastoring Jesus and reaching people, Jesus left the 99 to go after the one. But with the rich young ruler, when he invited him to a disciple making relationship and the rich young ruler turned to walk away. Jesus didn't chase him down and said, Dude, only give half to the poor, we'll call it good. Jesus, and it said, Jesus loved him. But see, often what we do is we lower the bar and go, if you can come once every four weeks, we'll call it good. You're not going to grow a disciple that way. Wow. So that's just some, some food for thought.

Yeah. You know, we're talking about kind of whittling down the qualifications or whatever, you know, I'm reminded about, you know, Jesus sent out the 72 or 70. And then yeah, he whittled it down even more to like his his core 12. And then he even had a group of three that was his Yeah, very close core. Yeah. And so that's, that's kind of like a repeating pattern. Yeah, in Jesus's life. But, you know, there's, there's some things that you talked about here. But I'm reminded about something that you said in one of the schools that you were teaching at when you came to Pittsburgh, when you were talking about how in your 20s, your vantage point is very wide and broad. And then as you get older, that kind of becomes more narrowed until you kind of hit your stride. That's one of those things that has always been big in my ears. Would you mind explaining that but then also telling us how you figured out what it is that is your stride as well?

Hmm, yeah. Yeah. So I ran into a gentleman by the name of Dr. Bobby Clinton many years ago, and Bobby was the one that first kind of helped me see this in the the mid to late 90s, about seasons of life, and how we, we all walk through various seasons of life. And Bobby identifies like five different stages that the average person walks through. And you know, there's an early stage, there's kind of a stage it's more about like in your like lemmings, you've heard me say over the years, john is if you in your, in your, in your 20s, or 30s, it's more about what God's building in you than what he's doing through you. And that doesn't mean he doesn't do great things to you, because every time you obey Him, He does great things to us. But the focus is what he's building in me. Because it's often not until our 50s or 60s that you end up really hitting your stride. And God builds us purposely by putting us under certain leaders or putting us in certain situations to flex our muscles, like the only way a muscle grows is through it going against weight greater than it and God puts us in those situations. And you know, if you look at this biblically, let's just just quick two characters Moses, in case, you know, your listeners don't know. So Moses lived to be 120. The first 40 years he was in Egypt, getting the kind of the best training kind of available in the planet. The next 40 years. God put him in the wilderness gave him a family, but he tended sheep, and God dealt with his character and who he was, and then at 80, so two thirds of the way through his life he has this Burning Man experiences where God caused him to go back into the nation of Egypt where he'd come from, and bring God's people out. So two thirds of his life was preparation for the third, okay? So you know, if the average person is say lives to be 7580, that means that first 5055 years of your life is really God preparing you for your stride. And then when we look at the life of Jesus 10, you know, he was called to do what he began to do, and he was around 30, the Bible says, so he died three years later, so 10 11th of Jesus's life was preparation. And we live in a culture, john, where, you know, like, I live in Music City, the Nashville area. And if someone, as they say, here can saying, you know, if you're 13, you're promoted. And I and I've walked with artists, john, that character didn't matter that much, because I have a stage. And see God wants to build godly character in us that can sustain what he wants to push through us the weight of that as we get older. And so it's one of those. It's one of those things that I look at, in my own journey. And so at 61, I can tell you that many, many years, God had me underneath leaders to learn, to glean and there's no doubt like when you're in your early to mid 30s, you get what I call an itchy feet. And it's kind of like, okay, I've been underneath it so long enough, I think I need to go, Well, that's all well and good. But have you prayed about it? That is God releasing you from that situation, because you don't want to go just because you got itchy feet, you want to go because it's obedience. And so for me, my life has been a step of obedience at a time. And it's been over the last few years that and even now leaning into a stride that God has begun to give me. But if your listeners can just realize, hey, you might be 35 and go into How much longer do I need to be under this leader? Here's the deal, the sooner that you lean into what God has you to learn faster, you walk through some of these processes. Yeah,

I know, whenever you first shared that with the students that I had at that point in the school, that just brought so much freedom to my life, because I was in my mid 20s. And I didn't quite know what my calling looked like and or felt like or what was going to be the end goal. Yeah, I knew that I was good at a lot of different things, and passable enough others that I could do most anything. And just having that freedom to know like, it's okay to realize what you're not good at. And figuring that out is just as important is figuring out what you are good at and what you are called to Yeah, and then God makes the way for you. And that's definitely what he's done in my life and is led me into into media that way and producing TV doing this podcast now. And those are all really cool things. And I don't know if I would have been able to walk in such a piece if I hadn't. Had you explained that in the past. Well,

and part of it john, too, is this by and just to add this quick is, when you're younger, it's really good to have people say you want to be well rounded and learn lots of things. And it's true. But as you get to your early to mid 50s, there is a narrowing. And like it would not be like john, I drive my car to Jiffy Lube to get my oil changed. I could change it. But I I would rather pay the 50 bucks to get it changed by a professional. Because I don't need to be spending my time there. I need to be spending my time where I'm strong. And so there comes a point in time where the well roundedness changes to what are the things you do really well just do that.

Yeah, that's so important. And Dave, one of the things that you do really well is discipleship, and teaching other people how to do that in the dozen domains that you've been able to explain in previous conversations, but God has called us into all these different areas of society, and you can be a disciple and a disciple maker outside of the church. In fact, God wants us to do that. Can you explain how God has kind of unpacked this for you and shown what your calling is and how you're making an impact in all these different areas?

Yeah. So back to our, you know, early yym days for me? Why wham, you know, introduced a concept to me as an 1819 year old of in Wyoming. It's called the seven spheres and so think of family, church, government, education, media, arts, entertainment, sports and business. And that began to shape my thinking as an 18 1920 year old even as it related to discipleship because here was the math I was doing, john. So if you get people who serve in the seven spheres, or you mentioned that dozen domains where our categories we've added to that, like Science and Technology, Health, medicine, homeless and others, now we just simply call them the vocations and so either You've got these various vocations. Like when you really get serious and say, how do you actually change society? Or how do you change your town or your city? As a follower of Jesus, I know if I can see godly people take hold of, of roles that can influence society. And I know they're going to lay down their life for others. I know, they're not about power and prestige. I know they're about servanthood and about bettering and blessing the lives of others. And I know they have that attitude. And I know that they have a certain skill set. So for example, if you want to disciple somebody in the area of media, knowing that the end result can be you can have, for example, one of the problems that we all have right now, which is, I'd say, a 25 year old problem, in particular, the last quarter century, is there's been a growing distrust of our public media, like, who do you know who to believe, like when I was growing up in the 1970s, for example, that's when I graduated from high school in 1977. So I started paying attention to the news a little bit when I was at high school, you know, you just had basically ABC, NBC, CBS, you didn't have all these things, but you had some broadcasters that had proven themselves to be trustworthy. And they didn't give you the information of the news with a spin. They just stated the information. That's very different than today, right? And today, how desperately Do we need godly people called by Jesus into the media, who, you know, when they speak something, they're telling you the truth? We're not going to get that just from the world around us. Because right now, my brother is in is in the media. And Tom will tell me, he'll say, Dave, you know, I don't even watch the news. Right now, because I know most news stories begin with this, I need to be the first one to report this story. And they're so fast to report it, that they don't get all the facts. And then before you know it, things are twisted, and someone puts their own spin on it. Well, we will never be able to impact that in a different way. Unless guys like john who are called to the media, find others called to maybe different parts of the media, you know, whether it's writing media, or television media, or digital media, social media, unless we can shape them in the ways of God where they we can say to them, do you understand right? That the attribute of God of him being called the word is attached to media, it's like, we have to understand that all of our vocations are attached to God's character. And for somebody in communications or media, I will say he's actually called the word. And whether that word is demonstrated visually or spoken audibly, we have to realize we have to reference him, and how we do things. So how do I display God's character? How am I a person of truth, so that in this area, the media, they trust me, and again, you can spill this into government, you can spill this into sports, it's sigh all kinds of areas of society. And so part of what we do john with lion's share the organization I lead as we walk alongside these kinds of leaders in society here in Nashville, people in the music industry, we shape them in the ways of God, they love Jesus already. But nobody's ever said, Have you ever connected your vocation to the ways of God and how God's character can be expressed to you? And they usually go? never even thought of it? You know, but because now they've learned that they've grown in that cash when you're with them. It's weighty God's character through them. Yeah. So that's some of the kinds of dynamics I think that we can look at. Right?

Could you tell me the story of somebody that you've had the opportunity to really spend time investing in discipling that has actually put that into practice? I'm thinking of a particular story where there's a music artist that was going to all these different radio stations, and yeah, could you kind of explain that story or tell that? Yeah.

And I was actually just with that person last week, hadn't seen her for a while. But there's a country music artist who is actually country music Artist of the Year, a number of years ago, and she called me and said, Would you pray for me and my family, we're heading on a bus tour. And this was early in her career when she had a song that had just come out and was breaking on the radio. And I said, I'm happy to pray for this radio tour. But I don't know what that is. Can you tell me and she said yes. So when you're new in country music, the way that they kind of get you out there is you go do radio tours, which means we go to these radio stations. So they went to something like 40 5060 of them over like a couple of months. And then they interview you they play your songs and that's how you get Oh, got it right. Pray. So we prayed. And while I was praying, I just had this impression inside and I said, Amen. And I said, Hey, can I can I ask you a question? She said, Sure. It's very open. I said, Are you first an artist, a country artists? Are you first a follower of Jesus? So I'm first a follower of Jesus, I don't. Okay, that's what I thought. So I said, as a country artist who's a follower of Jesus, can I suggest something to you? She said, Absolutely. So I said, when you get on the on that bus, and you start going to these radio stations, can I encourage you to do something like this, put it in your own words, but do something like this, let's say you ended up in Phoenix, Arizona, the doors of the bus open, you've got some fans there who've already begin to hear your music. Can I encourage you instead of getting caught up in the autograph world at the moment, you know, you can come back there, but just greet them kindly with your eyes. But then find out who the station manager is that invited you. Go up to them with your family, don't assume they know who you are, and extend your hand shake their hand and say, Hi, my name is and say, say something like this? While I'm here and my family's here, could you please tell us how we could serve you and your radio station? And she said to me, Oh, my gosh, I will do that. Because I said I want you to be to learn to be a servant, because it doesn't matter your status in life. Even if you're one of the world's greatest celebrities, as a follower of Jesus, you're still first as servant. And she said, I agree with that. Well, she said, I'll do it. When she got back. We had a meal here with her and her family at a Cracker Barrel, one of our restaurants here and and I said, How did that go? And she said, that was life changing for me? Because she said, we did that. We just asked the people, how can we serve you? And so actually, her story is one of the stories in a new book I've just put out, I just went back to her and validates it. Am I still thinking about that? Correct? Is that that was back. JOHN, that's now 20 years ago this year. Wow. And she still is somebody that looks to serve those that work with her. So she's got an attitude of a servant, which is an attitude that every follower of Jesus needs to be discipled Yeah,

you know, I'm glad you brought up about your, your new book that's out now. But before we talk about that, and talk about all the great things that are in there, and all the other things that you're doing as well, I don't want to miss the opportunity to ask you this important question that I always kind of frame this podcast around. You know, Dave, as you look back at your life, and you you can see now that Jesus really was walking with me and your heart was burning, just like the amaze rose story.

Yes.

Maybe you didn't realize it at that moment, but you can see it now. Would you mind just telling me a story of your life where that's the case? And what you've learned from that?

Yeah, you know, I, some of it goes back to that seasons of life question, you know, john, that he led me into a while back, because, you know, when I was 20, something, and, you know, you start forecasting out in your life, you know, you don't know what's really out there. And you know, now at 61, when I look back when I was 21. And I imagined, okay, what might I be doing in my 60s? To be really honest, john, I would say 50% of what I'm doing now, I could see at 21 I would be doing, but I want to emphasize that there's a whole nother 50% that I had no idea. And I think one of the things that's important for us in our journeys is to realize that Jesus is the one that wants to lead us and the only way you can do this is obedience point to obedience point to obedience point. And just like john for you, you were obedient to join you for the mission, you were obedient, to leave it to step into something related to the media. And then now that you've been in the media, you were obedient to accept roles that you were offered, because you prayed about it felt like you were to do it. And one of the big lessons for me over my life is obedience has to be central to our lives as disciples of Jesus. And when I say that, just so your listeners Don't misunderstand me. When I say obedience, I don't want you to think of like some lockstep rigid thing. Here's how I see this when Jesus was speaking to his disciples, and he said, If you love me, you'll obey me. He didn't say it. Like, if you love me prove it by obedience. I think if we would have heard him live in that moment, it would have been something like this. If you love me, shrug their shoulders, you'll obey me. Like in other words, the key here is loving Jesus with our hearts so much that it becomes a ridiculous idea to disobey. Wow. And so for me in my life, I would say obedience and it doesn't mean john I'm always perfect at it because I'm not I have to go back and forth. Please forgive me. I was you know, got selfish. There. We You know, whatever. But it is the rudder of my life obeying Jesus out of my love for him.

You know, Dave, that just made me think about, you know how so much, you know, we get a text message and we will read into it a tone that's not there. And I love how you just broke down. Because sometimes we do the same thing to the Word of God. Two, we just read it. Yeah. And it's just, it's just text on a page. But the Word of God is living and active. And if we take the time to really hear the Spirit of God, as we're reading it, he's gonna show us Hey, if you, if you love me, then you'll obey my commandments. You know, it's Yeah, like that changes the meaning completely. Yeah, sir. Changes the motivation? Completely real. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So Dave, if you could go back in time, and visit a young, you know, young Dave, early 20s, in your teens or whatever? What stage of life would you like to interact with? and give yourself a piece of advice, you know, something that you can just kind of, here's some wisdom that I'd love for you to have at this point in your life. Yeah. What is that thing that you would that you would say? And could you paint the picture of what's going on in your life?

Yeah, yeah, I would say there were times in my late 30s and early 40s, that I had a sense inside of me that there was something more that I was called to that what I was doing at the time, and I needed and I got, I had some wise people around me, I needed to have that counsel. And I would get have given myself as a 61 year old now counsel to that say late 30s, early 40s guy, just saying, God's got it in his time. Don't push it, don't manufacture something. Don't make something happen. And out of that came this phrase, john, that I know, you've heard me say over the years, what God initiates key permeate, meaning with his presence, his blessing is leading and guiding His provision, what God initiates, he permeates what is leading is guiding His provision, that kind of thing. What I initiate, I have to sustain it. And if I'm having to sustain it, it means it's going to be born in the flesh, it's going to be only on my energy and strength, not on Gods. And so Cheryl, and I like we're going to go into a prayer retreat time here, timer to each year, we get away for three days to seek the Lord. And the language we use john is this and we're praying about something to discern if it's of God, is will say this, is God's breath on it? In other words, is God the one that's breathing life on it? Or am I the one that's trying to pump life into it? And I would say to that, you know, late 30s, early 40s guy, trust the Lord, in his way in his time, he will bring to pass the things he's talking in your heart, don't you make it happen?

Let him make it happen. Amen. That's good advice. And that's something that I needed to hear right now, too. So I appreciate that. Good. Good, good. And Dave, I know one of the things that God has breathed on is the books that you've written and the book that has just come out the the great opportunity. So would you just kind of talk about what is the motivation with the great opportunity? And what are some of the key points that people can take away from that? And how did they get it as well? Yeah.

So the book is called, as john said, the great opportunity and subtitled making disciples of Jesus in every vocation. And so it really has three components to it, john, the first part deals with calling, and it's helping people catch a fresh sense of what it means to be called by God to their vocation, because oftentimes people think, you know, if you're called to be a pastor, a missionary, you know, that kind of thing, then that's actually a calling, not government, or sports, or, you know, being a stay at home homemaker, you know, but it helps people catch a fresh glimpse of what it means to be called by God, and how he shapes us, uniquely in that calling. So john, the second part of the book deals with vocations and how our vocations are actually rooted in God's character. And it breaks that down and helps people begin to see the value, the kingdom value of their vocation, how it can be used to advance God's kingdom, how it can better and bless the lives of people around us, that kind of thing. And then the last part of the book, which is about half of it deals with the things you've led our conversation in, how do I go about making disciples of Jesus? And it gets really, really practical, you know, like, in whose ears are your words big? And how do I find this? And how do I do it? So that's kind of the spirit of the book, The Great opportunity, I'm excited to see it getting in the hands of people who work in various vocations where they can realize, one of the ways I can partner with Jesus in changing the world is by making disciples of the followers of Jesus that serve in my same vocation.

That's so powerful. You know, I feel like there's been so many times is where we, as Christians have missed the boat. We've missed the opportunities because we've said, well, the pastor will take care of that. You know, the pastor's the disciple maker, but Jesus has called all of us to do that we are all called to be disciples and a disciple makes more disciples now That's right. I'm so grateful for the books, the other books that you've written to the Jesus blueprint and the the handbook that you've created the discipleship journey, and you've got a kid's version of that now, too. And so you don't have to be a certain age to start being a disciple, you can start from a young, a young kid as well. And that's, that's where we should be. Yeah. And because the Bible says Train up a child and the way they should go, and they will not depart from it. And if we can instill those things in children growing up, then we've got the setup so that they can be superheroes for the next generation. And I just, I love that concept. Huge. So

yeah, it's huge in that piece are a discipleship journey, kids edition, we're almost done. We just got the animation done. So john, for the 48 lessons, there are now about three minute videos for each one of those with two characters, 80 and J. And so you'll get that at j A discipleship journey. So we have 80 and J. Two kids that learn along the way. We're having fun pouring into people, as you know, to we've got a podcast, it's called wisdom on law, the ways of God. It's usually about a 25 to 30 minute podcast and one of my team members, Sonia, who used to work for dateline and different things does the interviewing and it's a conversation about the ways of God very much like John's just let us in on various subjects, like the one that just came out. This week is on how not to kick up a fence is kind of a big one. And it's a little vague right there. That's

that's a big one that we all need that Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make sure that we put a link to that in the show notes here so people can listen to that particular episode. But how else can people find you Dave?

Yeah, it's easy. If you just go on lion's share, just like it sounds, L i o n s h a r e.org. And you'll see, you know, the things that john talked about the things we're doing there, the resources that are available. And if you go to Dave Deering, I know our team is linked me up on Facebook and on Instagram, as well. So john will give you the spelling in my head.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I'll put all that information in the show notes. But I just wanted to give you an opportunity to kind of make that plug as well, because I personally know that all the resources that you have given me, all the wisdom and knowledge that God has used you to impart into my life has been truly life changing. And thanks, john, you're one of those guys that, as I said, and I'll keep saying it probably till the day that I die, that your words are very big in my ears, and have helped me become the man that I am today, seeing these opportunities on how I can help other people along their way. There's so much more that I would like to talk with you about. But I'm going to wrap up this conversation now. Maybe we can try another time to go even deeper about some of the things you're

happy to.

But right now, I just want to thank you for allowing me to join you along your way.

Thank you.

I hope that you've enjoyed my conversation with Dave baring, I always pick up a lot of good information and a lot of good inspiration. Whenever I talk with him. I love how he describes the things that we are supposed to be able to pass on to others,

the ways of God is passing, Hey, can I show you how Jesus would do this. So it's reflecting his character is reflecting his ways. And then it's helping that person find their own gifts and their place in the body of Christ where, where they're where they're fulfilling the mission of Jesus, I really appreciated what he said about your identity and knowing who you are. I want you to learn to be secure in who you are and who you're not

that knowing who you are not part is really important. And it's really freeing, I hope you find some freedom, knowing what you are not called to and who you are not called to be as much as you are. I love how Dave describes the importance of obedience.

One of the big lessons for me over my life is obedience has to be central to our lives as disciples of Jesus. When I say obedience, I don't want you to think of like some lockstep rigid thing. Here's how I see this when Jesus was speaking to his disciples, and he said, If you love me, you'll obey me. He didn't say it. Like, if you love me prove it by obedience. I think if we would have heard him live in that moment, it would have been something like this. If you love me, shrug the shoulders, you'll obey me. Like in other words, the key here is loving Jesus, with our hearts so much that it becomes a ridiculous idea to disobeying,

even though I've heard Dave share a lot of the same information on numerous occasions. It still challenges me and it gives me something to think about as I try to become more like Jesus. I hope that you are blessed by this conversation too. If you want to know more about Dave and his journey, I'll be providing his information. In the shownotes, thank you for listening to along the way. If you've enjoyed joining me along my way, please share this with a friend who you think will be encouraged by this podcast. Also, please rate and review along the way on iTunes that helps more people discover along the way. And you can subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening. You can also keep up with me on Facebook, Instagram and on my website along the way dot media. I hope that you've enjoyed this part of my journey and may you realize when Jesus is walking with you along your way. Along the way is honored to be part of the charisma Podcast Network. You can find tons of spirit filled content from their vast catalogue of podcasts, including my Monday through Friday news stories for the charisma news podcast. Go to CPN shows.com to see the full list and latest episodes.