Exclusive Interview: Dallas Jenkins Discusses The Chosen's Exciting Future Plans

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Dallas Jenkins, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busiest schedule to talk with me

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about the great things that are happening with The Chosen. I mean, coming up to the CW,

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getting everything out there is really powerful. Yeah, thanks so much for having me on. I

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appreciate it. And you look great, by the way. That's a very nice setup and clothes. I'm feeling

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a little underdressed for you now. But I like that color though. It's good. Yes. Yes. It is our color.

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But thanks for that. Yeah, it's really exciting. Seeing the show on the CW last year, they did

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seasons one through three, and the ratings actually improved as the seasons went on, which was

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shocking to me. I actually figured the show's available free. It's available on multiple

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streamers. You know, once people watch an episode, they can go catch up and watch them all anywhere

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they want. And yet they were faithful to the CW, which is really great to see the Jesus story told

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in the way we tell it and unabashedly the gospel. And yet to see it on national television is really

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exciting. And we love our relationship with the CW. It's been great. Yeah, that's wonderful. And

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I love the fact that people, a new audience that is unaware of The Chosen previously is becoming

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aware of it. And just seeing everything that God has been using, how God has been using you to get

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things out about The Chosen. And I love how you have been so purposeful with communicating with

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the audience about everything that has been going on and the continual updates. It has made me feel

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like I'm a part of this, even though I have contributed in the past. And I can I plan to do

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that again in the future, too. But like it is so exciting to see that I get to be a part of this

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just by watching and kind of being a part of whatever initiative you might have at that time.

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What are some things that you've got that you're excited about that, you know, trying to promote

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season five and season four with with the CW now? Yeah, I mean, that's the cool thing. And I'm so

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glad you said it the way you said it is from the beginning, we said we're going to pull back the

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curtain and you're going to be part of the process. I think that that's I think that that's

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actually an obligation that we have. It's a privilege for sure. And it makes for a good

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relationship and it makes for good promotion and all of that. And it's worked out very well for us.

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But I think that we actually have an obligation for two reasons. One, if we're going to say to

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people, look, this is a free show. But we do survive because of your donations. We have an

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obligation to to let them know where their money is going and why and what our what our motivations

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are. That doesn't mean we make decisions based on what the audience wants. And we say that all the

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time. Like we're not blowing in the wind here. And we're not going to just be people pleasers. And

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there will maybe times when you don't love everything we do. So we say that up front,

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because I don't think they'd want us with a Jesus story to be swayed by popular opinion or even

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unpopular opinion. But two is when when I'm telling the story of Jesus and the Gospels in a way that

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isn't a verse by verse reenactment, and I am taking artistic liberties. I think you as a

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viewer have a right to know, especially if you're considering contributing, that I take this

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seriously and that I'm doing my homework and that I'm wanting to honor God and the character and

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intentions of Jesus and the Gospels for me to kind of hide behind the the curtain, and not only claim

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as I do, it's a TV show, it's not the Bible. And I say that all the time. And that's true, but just

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kind of go, hey, take it for what it is. And you don't need to know anything about me. I think

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would be a little bit too cheeky and unfair. I think that I think that you have a right to know

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that I love Jesus love the Bible. Take, take these characters and take the stories very seriously.

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And you need to know what my motivations are, so that you can feel confident that there's not going

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to be some massive left turn in a future season that's going to completely obliterate everything

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we've built. Yeah, there's I'm guessing that there's not going to be any surprise endings

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that you know that are that are that are against what we've been reading for thousands of years.

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Now, as always, we will surprise you and how we do it. Yes, we will surprise you with the emotional

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connection into these stories. But no, we're not rewriting. We're not rewriting history by any means.

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Speaking of the emotional connection, I absolutely love how you have been able to work the deeper

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character stories behind people like Peter and how he and his wife, Eden, had this miscarriage in

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chapter and not chapter, but season three, and just everything that led up to that kind of redemption

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moment in the the walking of the water, the walking on the water at the end. And it was just like,

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I know you've spoken about you're not going to get caught up in the miracles, you're not going to get

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caught up in the the CGI and all the things that need to go into that, because you want to always

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connect to the human element and the story that what are some of the challenges that you've had

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with keeping focused on the human element? Yeah, you don't want when I talk about the

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miracles, there's two things that I always want to make sure that we avoid. One is a supernatural CGI

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VFX driven scene that is so much so heavy in the in the CGI and supernatural that you're

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spending more of your time trying to figure out how we did it. And thinking whether or not it's

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high quality or not, as opposed to focusing on the spiritual, intellectual, emotional,

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as you know, human aspects of it. And second is, we don't want a miracle to just mean, this isn't

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good drama for a miracle just saves the day. Like, you know, just any anytime you have a dramatic

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problem, there's just a miracle that saves a day, because that's not necessarily how life always

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works. And also, for the purposes of a TV show, with with character arcs and story arcs, story arcs,

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you just don't want you know, and then just Jesus fixed everything because he did a miracle. So the

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challenge is always all right, we've got this great miracle moment. How do we make it human? How do we

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make it that you care? How do we make it that this actually is related to something that's personal

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in the show or a storyline that we've been developing? And so we look for we look for, you

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know, miracles that we think actually can have a real strong human connection with the people that

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we've developed. So for example, you've got walking on the water. Now we know that for a lot of

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Peter Simon at the time, that, you know, yes, it's a little bit about faith, clearly, he's willing to

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walk on the water, and clearly, he's willing to take that step of faith. But what would have made

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him, you know, desperate, what would have made what would have made him actually start to lose

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his confidence while he's on the water. And so we work our way backwards. And yes, we, we invent

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some things that weren't necessarily factual. But I do believe they are capital T truthful. And I

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think that's the challenge, but also the privilege is, what can we do that is going to illustrate a

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biblical truth, even if it's not a fact from history or scripture. And I think, I think there

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are people, of course, who would disagree with some of our choices over the years. But I think overall,

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I feel very proud of and confident that we have accurately captured the character of Jesus in the

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Gospels and the character of God, even when we weren't factual in some of the stories that we're

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telling. And by factual, I just mean, you know, we don't know that they happened. And so it's a

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challenge, but also a privilege. And it's what makes the show unique. It's what, you know, for,

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so I always tell people, some people who might go, Oh, I didn't agree with that choice. I'm like,

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that's fine. There are choices you loved that other people didn't agree with. That's going to

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happen in seven seasons, but directionally, I believe that we are, we are, we are accurately

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capturing the character of God. Yeah. Now in season four, you had a character die in this,

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and not just, not just Lazarus, who was raised back up to life, but Ramah and seeing the relationship

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with Herr and Thomas, and we know that Thomas gets known to be doubting Thomas later on. That's kind

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of his nickname later on, but I love how you're developing this. And we're, I'm sure we're going

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to see this come out over a few seasons now of why that's going to be so powerful. And so I appreciate

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the foreshadowing. Thank you so much for that. And I can't wait to see how you continue to tell that

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part of that story. Yeah. And that's, you brought up, of course, probably one of our top two or

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three most controversial scenes because it was so shocking and because obviously it's not from

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scripture and it includes Jesus. And what we're saying about Jesus is risky, although I believe

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it's true, which is, you know, did he heal everyone? Did he, did he resurrect everyone that he was,

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you know, that we've, we've had some people who've literally said, you know, Jesus never attended a

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funeral or Jesus, no one ever died in front of him. And I, you know, I, I obviously disagree with

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that, but I think that in this storyline, not only did it develop because yes, how are we going to

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set up the encounter between Jesus and Thomas from the gospels where Thomas says when he's not with

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Jesus, I need, I need to see it to believe it. Why would he need to see it to believe it when Jesus

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had predicted what was going to happen. He had told the disciples, I'm going to die and I'm going

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to rise again. And we forget that, but he actually said that to him. And Thomas had seen miracles.

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Why was Thomas struggling to believe? And then when he did encounter Jesus, that scene, that moment

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in scripture, which is of course very powerful, what would have led to that? How can we, as, as,

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as dramatists and as storytellers set it up so that when we get to that point, it really matters

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and you really care and it's really powerful. And, and this storyline from this season, it was a big

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part of that. And is it factual? No. Is it capital T truthful? I believe it is. I believe it does

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reflect our own experience as well that God does not on this side of heaven, make everything

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bright and rosy and fixed and yield on this side of heaven. He heals our hearts spiritually. But

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he does not heal us physically all the time and knowing that he can, what happens when he doesn't?

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And I think we explored that in a very intense way. But I think it will, as you said, foreshadow,

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I think it is going to make some of the Bible stories that we see in later seasons have even

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more resonance. That's awesome. You know, Dallas, I love the extra features that you're always adding.

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I mean, I've been following the YouTube channel for years and I actually had the opportunity to

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interview you, I think between episodes four and five of season one. Yes. So it was, you know,

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I've been following this for a long time and I actually got to see the shepherd way, way,

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way back whenever the friend sent that to me saying, you got to check this out. This is,

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this is coming. And I knew it was going to be big at that point, but you are always putting out this

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content on the YouTube channel and on the app and you have these round table discussions. And so I

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love these because it really gives us the opportunity to see kind of inside your mind,

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but how you're wrestling with making some of these decisions. And it's not just, this is what Dallas

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thinks, you know, this is what's going to be on the screen, but you actually, you have great people

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involved with this. Tell me about some of these round table discussions and maybe some things that

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have actually changed because of that. Yeah. So we always tell people that the best way to experience

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the chosen is holistically. Meaning you're going to watch the after shows, the round table discussions

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and, and hopefully read our Bible studies and devotional books. Not everyone's going to do that.

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In fact, the overwhelming majority aren't. And I, I admit that TV shows and movies that I watch,

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I'm not reading all their ancillary products and I'm not always following them on social media.

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So I get it. But we do want you to understand that if you have a question, if something is confusing,

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if you watch the show and then read your Bible and for millions of people are telling us the Bible

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makes more sense to them now, but we want you to have, you want, we want you to be able to be

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disciple that if you have these questions, if you have these struggles or confusions that you're

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going to, that you have, excuse me, that you have a place to go to check it out. The Bible round

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tables are where we collect our Bible experts, Catholic priests, messianic Jewish rabbi and

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evangelical scholar who get together. They read our scripts, they read our

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books together. They read our scripts before every season. They give feedback. They have,

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you know, red, yellow and green, you know, red means don't do this. I can't put my name on this.

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If you do it, you know, yellow means it's going to cause some questions, but, but, you know,

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be careful, but we, we, you know, we don't find it blasphemous. And then green is, this is, this is

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great. We've only had one red the whole time. And that was in season one with Peter fishing on

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the river. And breaking those rules, our Jewish scholars said that there's just, that just wouldn't

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happen. Now what we, what we changed to make them okay was we made it a big deal. We made Peter or

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Simon at the time doing it because his life was at stake. We made his wife and his brother respond

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to it as though this was an egregious thing. So that made them okay. But otherwise there's multiple

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yellows of just like, this is a point of contention. Let's talk about it. And we talk about it on the

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round tables. We debate sometimes. I talk about the things that we got quote unquote wrong,

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because I want people to know that we take seriously accuracy and truth. And that sometimes for the

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sake of a TV show, we'll combine locations or we'll, we'll mess with the timeline a little bit.

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We'll cut a few things. We'll add a few things, but directionally, we want to be pointing towards

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the truth and character and intentions of Jesus and the gospels. And so there are safety net. And,

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and so the Bible round tables go over really well. They're available in the chosen app,

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totally free. And people really love them because they really do allow you to get some insight

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culturally, historically, and yes, biblically, that a TV show as a unifying agent of all of those

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things can be really cool. It can be a really fun, interesting way into those things that maybe you

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didn't get, or you couldn't quite follow in school or even in church sometimes, because you couldn't

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quite picture it. So Bible round tables are where we really go deeper. That's cool. Another thing

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that I love is the audience interaction and how you've had the, like the feeding of the 5,000.

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And I love on your shirts, the five and the two, the, the lows and the fish is there. And,

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you know, I'm sure that's available at the, the, the chosen.tv or the,

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the, the, the, the, the, the, the chosen.tv. Yeah. The chosen gifts.com. I'm a chosen gifts.com.

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Sorry about that. It's been a little while, but whenever I did the podcast with you a long time

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ago, it was the chosen.tv anyway. But you did, you have had a lot of people involved with that.

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Do you have any other scenes that you're planning on getting the fans involved in,

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in a way like that? Well, in season five, what we just filmed, we had instead of, you know,

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4,000 people in one day, we had a few thousand people over the course of three weeks, 600 to

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800 a day. Cause we were filming some really big scenes from the, the triumphal entry to the turning

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of the tables where it was going to take us multiple days to shoot. And we didn't necessarily

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need 4,000 people, but we needed enough to fill the screen. And we didn't expect people to do it

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for three weeks, you know? So we brought them out in, in, in, in groups. Now there are a couple of

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people who did it all three weeks and God bless them. But season, season five for sure has a lot

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of that. Season six is going to require that again, no doubt, because it's, it's the, the

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crucifixion season. So when he's going through the streets, when he's on the cross, there were crowds

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and it just is a really beautiful experience. We had when we were doing the trample entry. I mean,

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I can't tell you how many people, it was hundreds per day who were weeping because they felt like

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they were part of something really special. And for them, they were acting out what they wish they

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could do 2000 years ago and worshiping Jesus. Now they know Jonathan's not Jesus, but they get a

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chance to act out. And for them, it was very real and, and singing Hosanna and, and doing it for 10 hours

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in a day over and over and over again, they never lost their excitement. I gosh, I get emotional

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remembering it, but it was, I mean, the actors, the crew, we were all very overwhelmed and emotional

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because for these people, it was, it was real. It was an opportunity for them to be part of

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something special. And it's going to pay off in the final version of it because it really is

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something. Amen. Amen. I can't wait to see all these, all these scenes in the coming seasons,

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but I would just want to remind everybody right now that on the CW on September 1st is season four

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is going to be premiering on broadcast TV. They've, they've done seasons one, two, and three,

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and now they're doing, they're going on with, with a, with season four. And this is exciting because

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you want to tell your family and your friends that they can tune in even if they haven't

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downloaded the app and they don't know how to do an app. There's a lot of people that don't know

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how to do that, but they can tune in because that's what they've been doing for a long time.

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They tune in to the CW to see the chosen on their TV screen on broadcast. Dallas, any closing words

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before we wrap up today? Yeah, thanks for all that. Yeah. I mean, look up where the CW is in your area.

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You can Google it. It's easy to find. And then also, even if you've seen the season, it's good

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to just turn on the TV to that channel, leave it on for a bit or tell friends about it because

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that kind of stuff does matter in the ratings. And we're not motivated by numbers, but numbers

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are what allow these networks and streamers to keep the show there and to keep doing more shows

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like it. And so when they see the success of it, it helps and that makes, it does make a difference.

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So the ratings help, you know, recording it on your, on your DVR makes a difference and spreading

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the word. If you, if you have the time or the inclination, when you see the sponsors to even

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like write a note and say, thanks for sponsoring the chosen. We love it. That kind of stuff makes

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a difference. Most people don't do it. I admit I rarely do it, but it's, it does make a difference

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and it encourages more of that. So that's, that's the biggest thing. That's why, why it's good to

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support these kinds of efforts. When, when, when people outside of our ecosystem take the show and

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expand it, let's make sure that they're rewarded for it. And if you want to get a great shirt,

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like Dallas is wearing, go to www.thechosengifts.com. I got it right this time. So,

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yes sir. Yes. Thank you so much for being here today on charisma. Yeah. Appreciate it.