Transcript
1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000
Read more stories on spirit-led living when you subscribe to Charisma Magazine.
2
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Go to MyCharismaShop.com and enter in the promo code CPN to receive 10% off the price
3
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:18,840
of the subscription.
4
00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:24,360
This is John Matarazzo for Charisma News and as we are getting closer to Christmas, it
5
00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:30,160
is a wonderful time of year, but also for a lot of people, it is a time where we're
6
00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,000
remembering the ones that aren't with us anymore.
7
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:40,600
I know myself, my grandfather passed away on December 23rd, a couple days before Christmas,
8
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:47,040
and that was a very difficult Christmas for my family, but we dealt with it and we grew
9
00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,240
closer together in that process.
10
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,600
And in this conversation today, I'm going to be joined by Tim Challis.
11
00:00:54,600 --> 00:01:01,080
He's an author and blogger and pastor speaker and he's got a great YouTube channel with
12
00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:08,000
great teachings and just the wisdom that he has to share, but he shared his life really
13
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:14,080
through a difficult season in this book, Seasons of Sorrow, the Pain of Loss and the Comfort
14
00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:15,200
of God.
15
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,400
And so Tim, it's great to have you here on the Charisma News podcast.
16
00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,680
Well, thank you for having me.
17
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:27,500
So Tim, as I just opened our podcast here, talking about my own experience with losing
18
00:01:27,500 --> 00:01:32,320
a loved one around the holidays and we're coming up on that, it's often difficult to
19
00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:37,720
even just bring up the subject of loss, but you've written the book that chronicles what
20
00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,120
happened after the loss of your son.
21
00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:46,200
Can you tell us about that story and what happened to your son and what happened in
22
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:47,200
your family?
23
00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,720
Yeah, and Nick was a seminary student.
24
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,440
He was attending seminary at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville,
25
00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:56,440
Kentucky.
26
00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:03,040
And in November of 2020, he just very suddenly collapsed and he was playing a game with a
27
00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:04,040
bunch of students there.
28
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:09,680
They were just off campus and unfortunately, nobody was able to resuscitate him.
29
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,920
So he passed away November 3rd, 2020.
30
00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:18,520
And that entered us, entered my family, myself personally into this season of deep loss,
31
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:23,160
the season of sorrow and not really knowing what to do other than to write.
32
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,280
That's how I process everything in life.
33
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,880
Think about things, how I come to terms with things.
34
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,160
I chose to just write my way through that season of sorrow and that's eventually what
35
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:33,640
led to this book.
36
00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:34,640
Yeah.
37
00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:39,120
So obviously, you weren't at the school with him when this happened.
38
00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:45,520
Tell us about how you found out and what was going on for you in that moment.
39
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,160
Yeah, we live in Canada.
40
00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,160
So we are quite some distance away and on the other side of an international border.
41
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,920
And if you rewind to early or sorry, to late 2020, you would remember there was a pandemic
42
00:02:55,920 --> 00:03:01,080
going on and one that did unfavorable things to the border between our two countries.
43
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,640
And so it was actually a very difficult time to travel, all sorts of health requirements
44
00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:08,160
and really weren't even allowed to drive over the border.
45
00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,520
It was a strange, strange time.
46
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,800
So yeah, we started receiving actually, I think the first thing we got was a text message
47
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,920
from somebody just saying that Nick had collapsed and then phone calls began.
48
00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:24,720
And over time, they became more and more alarming until we did eventually get the phone call
49
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:30,640
from a doctor who had said Nick had been brought to the ER and he tried to assure me they had
50
00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:35,360
done everything they could, but there was nothing to be done that Nick had passed away.
51
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:40,480
Again, it was a very difficult evening, very difficult night.
52
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,520
But Lord was very present with us and very kind to us.
53
00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:49,000
And he really proved himself true to his every promise, even in our deepest sorrow or deepest
54
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,000
grief.
55
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,000
Yeah.
56
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:56,000
So you and your wife was, you know, you received this message is was Nick your oldest child?
57
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,800
Yeah, he was our oldest.
58
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,560
We have a daughter who was just beneath him in age and she was at school.
59
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,600
She was actually present when he collapsed, when he died.
60
00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,040
And then one younger daughter who was at home with us.
61
00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,040
Oh, wow.
62
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,600
So your your daughter actually saw him collapse.
63
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:13,600
Oh, my goodness.
64
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,200
Yeah, she witnessed the entire thing.
65
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,160
So that must be that must have been a very traumatic thing for her as well.
66
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:25,640
Yeah, yeah, it was very traumatic for her and ex fiance had just recently become engaged.
67
00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:26,640
She was present.
68
00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,560
And then most of his closest friends were there as well because he was he was at seminary
69
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,240
is also a Bible college doing the things concurrently.
70
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,960
And so the students who lived with him in his dorm were there with him as well.
71
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,400
It was a collection of his closest people.
72
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:43,600
And so it was a very traumatic event for that whole group of friends.
73
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,000
And they continue to process it to this day.
74
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,000
Oh, I'm sure.
75
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,000
I'm sure.
76
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:53,880
Just out of curiosity, did the doctors explain what happened or why this happened?
77
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:59,080
Yeah, they the best they could come up with was that it was it just happens that sometimes
78
00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,320
hearts can slip into dysrhythmias.
79
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,700
So patterns that are unsustainable and the heart just can't keep going.
80
00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:08,720
And so it goes into cardiac arrest.
81
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,960
And that's the closest they could come up with at the time.
82
00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,480
And we've had genetic testing, et cetera, since then.
83
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:16,880
That's the only thing they can conclude.
84
00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,000
But we'll never really have firm answers.
85
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,800
This is a presumed diagnosis, but not one they can ever prove.
86
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:23,800
Yeah.
87
00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:29,920
So you process by writing, and that's something that I try to do.
88
00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:34,800
I'm not as good at journaling as I've gone through different seasons of that in my life.
89
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:40,180
But journaling and writing and blogging is something that that's just how you process.
90
00:05:40,180 --> 00:05:45,480
Tell me about what you what you started writing and what are some of those things that you
91
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,880
started processing and how did God help you through this process?
92
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,680
The very first thing I wrote was really just a message to be posted on my website.
93
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:57,040
I've been blogging there for years, for decades, and a lot of people read that.
94
00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,040
And so that was the first thing I had to do was just get the news out, I felt.
95
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,200
And so I wrote something that would go up the next morning, just explaining very briefly
96
00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,120
what had happened and just pleading with people to pray for us, really believing in the power
97
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,720
of prayer and the necessity of prayer in our times of loss.
98
00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:18,200
But then as the days went on, I had to write an obituary, of course, I had to write a funeral
99
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,120
speech, of course.
100
00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,400
And then also, just for the sake of my own soul, I had to just wrestle through what had
101
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:31,160
happened and what it meant and through some theological issues related to God's character,
102
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:32,400
related to God's sovereignty.
103
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,200
Was God really sovereign in this?
104
00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,920
Is God really good in this?
105
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:42,880
I had to wrestle through just some of my own thoughts and even just sort of coming to terms
106
00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:48,320
with my relationship to God when he did something or he was involved in something that was so
107
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,560
difficult and so hard and took something I loved so much.
108
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:57,320
And so I never turned on God or never turned away from God, but I certainly had to, in
109
00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:02,680
a sense, reevaluate my relationship with God to say, are all those things that I've always
110
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,840
thought true of God when the times were good, are they true of God now that this great difficulty
111
00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:09,640
has come upon me?
112
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,080
Wow.
113
00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:16,040
And so how did you come to know that those things are still true?
114
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,720
Because I've gone through times where that seems to be the case, and I'm just like, I
115
00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,200
don't know if I can trust this.
116
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,080
How did you come to the conclusion that, yes, you could still trust God?
117
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:29,520
I mean, really, it came down to us having to determine that either nothing we've ever
118
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:35,880
believed is true, and we've been living a lie or following a lie all these years, or
119
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:40,480
we had to determine that everything we believed is true and that we're continuing to follow
120
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:41,700
the truth.
121
00:07:41,700 --> 00:07:46,500
And we chose just to believe that God is true, that everything we believed that was true
122
00:07:46,500 --> 00:07:49,080
of God before is true of Him now.
123
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:53,280
In our times of sorrow, our times of loss, it's so important that we anchor ourselves
124
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:54,280
to something.
125
00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:55,280
Everything's turbulent.
126
00:07:55,280 --> 00:08:00,400
We're being thrown and tossed by the winds and the waves, and we need to anchor ourselves
127
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:01,400
to something.
128
00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:06,520
And we chose to anchor ourselves to the sovereignty of God, by which we just mean that God is
129
00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:13,600
King in this world and that nothing can happen in this world that God doesn't permit, that
130
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,560
God doesn't decree or permit.
131
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,720
And so this hadn't happened apart from His knowledge.
132
00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,120
This wasn't something God had turned aside for a moment, and this happened.
133
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,280
And oh, no, He wished He could fix it, but He couldn't at this point.
134
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,960
No, we determined that God allowed this.
135
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,720
This was part of God's will for Nick and part of His will for our family, but then also
136
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,960
this truth that God is good and that God is inclined toward us as a father, is inclined
137
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:37,960
toward His children.
138
00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,080
And that gave us great confidence that God hadn't done anything evil.
139
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:42,880
He hadn't done anything bad.
140
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:48,080
He hadn't done anything that really was aimed to hurt or harm us or hurt or harm Nick.
141
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,840
Somehow, even this great hardship was a display of God's goodness.
142
00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,160
He hadn't stopped being good in this.
143
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,940
And so by just latching ourselves to God's sovereignty and God's goodness, we were prepared
144
00:08:58,940 --> 00:09:01,440
then to endure this by faith.
145
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:10,040
Yeah, and I know one of the chapters in your book, you focus in on the passage where the
146
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:14,800
guy comes to Jesus and he says, Lord, I believe, help my unbelief.
147
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,960
I can see you would be asking that a lot during that time.
148
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,480
How did God help your unbelief?
149
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,760
Yeah, I love that story.
150
00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:29,200
And here's a man who truly does honor the Lord, truly does have faith, and yet he acknowledges
151
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,840
that his faith is not as full, as strong as he would want it to be.
152
00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,800
And I'm sure in our griefs, there's times when all of us come to a similar realization
153
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,880
that we do believe, but we want our faith to be stronger.
154
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:48,980
And we found that some days, trusting in God and trusting in His purposes and even continuing
155
00:09:48,980 --> 00:09:53,800
to find joy, even joys that go along alongside of our sorrows.
156
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,800
Some day that was very easy and came very naturally.
157
00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,360
Other days we had to just choose to believe.
158
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:04,880
And so in those days we'd say, I'm choosing to believe right now that Nick is alive and
159
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,400
well in the presence of the Lord.
160
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:11,760
I'm choosing to believe right now that God is good and that His goodness has never stopped
161
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:12,760
being displayed.
162
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,080
I'm choosing to believe right now that God is inclined toward me.
163
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,560
His heart is inclined toward me, so He hasn't turned away from me.
164
00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:25,880
And so I think what we're doing in those times is not trusting our feelings, but subjecting
165
00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,320
our feelings to facts.
166
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:32,040
We're saying, I know my feelings can sway, they can come, they can go, they can be true,
167
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:38,120
they can be false, but I know that what's true is completely fixed and certain.
168
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:44,400
And I can then affirm those truths and demand that my feelings be subjected to those truths.
169
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,040
We found that we needed to do that day by day.
170
00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:55,080
So I know with sorrow and with the stress of having to deal with this great sorrow,
171
00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:00,800
how did, let's talk about anxiety and the stress that comes with that, because it would
172
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,720
be just easier to be overwhelmed.
173
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,800
I know I go through times where I get overwhelmed with things and I have to remind myself of
174
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:12,800
who God is and just like what we've been talking about, but I know anxiety is something that
175
00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,880
it affects a lot of people right now.
176
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,360
I think it's true of any of us when we go through something traumatic that we tend to
177
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,080
feel that something else traumatic could happen.
178
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,320
We sort of lose our confidence that the world is just generally okay.
179
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:31,200
We go through hardships, but still just generally we can trust that we will go to bed and wake
180
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,840
up in the morning or our kids will go to bed and wake up in the morning.
181
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,140
But when we go through a time of trauma, that's upset a little bit and we start to look over
182
00:11:39,140 --> 00:11:43,920
our shoulders a little bit or get that sense that we're being stalked or something, just
183
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,520
that other bad things are going to happen.
184
00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:54,400
And so anxiety really can creep up on us and we can start to live with this sense of impending
185
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:55,400
doom.
186
00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:01,560
I think partly that just needs to pass time to may not heal all wounds, but it really
187
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:06,400
does bring soothing to our sorrows and some time needs to pass.
188
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,640
But also we just have to ground ourselves again in the character of God.
189
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,320
Who is this God and is he inclined for us?
190
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,640
And if he calls us to go through difficult things, is that in some way displaying his
191
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:18,640
glory?
192
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:19,880
Well, of course it is.
193
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:25,040
And so being very willing just to subject ourselves to God, to submit ourselves to him,
194
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,640
to understand that when we come to God, we come to him all the way and we're willing
195
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,320
to be used by him, even in ways that are very sorrowful, that are very hard.
196
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:39,040
We're saying your purposes are greater than mine and I'm choosing them to permit you,
197
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,640
not that God needs our permission, but permit you to use me in whatever way brings you most
198
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,760
glory, whether that's through health or through illness, whether that's through times of great
199
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,680
joy or times of great sorrow.
200
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:50,680
Yeah.
201
00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:56,160
You've broken your book down into actually the different seasons of the year and, you
202
00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:02,120
know, the seasons of sorrow, but seasons of the year as in winter, spring, summer, fall.
203
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:09,400
In those actual physical seasons, how has your grief changed or how did you deal with
204
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,160
sorrow in each of those different seasons?
205
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:17,280
Yeah, I was a relative newcomer to grief when we entered into this season of sorrow.
206
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:22,400
You know, my father died about a year prior, but you expect your parents to die.
207
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,280
And so it's maybe a different, it can be a very difficult loss, no doubt.
208
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,520
But you know, my dad was the kind who was always joking about his death and really looking
209
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,940
forward to heaven.
210
00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:35,920
So you know, when Nick died, it was a whole different magnitude of grief and something
211
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,160
I really did need to, needed a lot of time to process.
212
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:44,720
And I broke the book down into seasons, partly to give it just some flow to show that there
213
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,320
is progress in our grief.
214
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,720
And in those early days, grief is completely overwhelming.
215
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,880
It takes over our bodies, takes over our souls, takes over our minds.
216
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,440
It takes over our time.
217
00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:57,940
It's just everything.
218
00:13:57,940 --> 00:14:03,920
But as time goes on, we do begin to realize we're processing it, we're moving through
219
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,040
the worst of it.
220
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,560
And we're emerging into what you might consider a new normal.
221
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:10,720
You'll never go back to the way you were.
222
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,780
You'll never be completely the same person you were on the far side of your grief.
223
00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:20,600
But you will discover a new kind of normal and you will emerge into the light again.
224
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:25,320
And you'll find that even though your sorrow never goes away, there really are joys again.
225
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,800
You really do experience joys again and joys that just kind of nestle side by side with
226
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:30,800
those sorrows.
227
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,960
They don't cancel one another out and become one thing.
228
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,760
But you are happy and you are sad all throughout life.
229
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:45,320
So that's wonderful that you're able to say that the joy does come back, that there's
230
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,920
somewhat of a restoration of your own emotions, I guess.
231
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:55,400
And even though the situation hasn't changed and won't change, but you're still able to
232
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,820
move forward and to have the life that God has called you to live.
233
00:14:59,820 --> 00:15:05,600
And I think a lot of times people get stuck in this position of, woe is me, I can't get
234
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,680
out of this position, this thing happened to me, and there's no way out.
235
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,240
And so I'm just going to let myself be a victim and stay here.
236
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:18,240
I know that this has had to affect your ministry and the way that you're able to help other
237
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:19,240
people.
238
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,040
So could you just talk about the ministry of sorrow that God's called you to?
239
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:28,520
Yeah, when we're going through a time of grief, I think we often feel like this is the end,
240
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:33,080
or how can I ever go on in love and service toward others now?
241
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:38,200
But if we really acknowledge God's sovereignty behind this, and we really acknowledge that
242
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:45,480
somehow God's plan for me involved this sorrow, somehow God's plan for my family involved
243
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:51,080
this sorrow, then we can accept that from God as something meaningful and something
244
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:52,080
precious.
245
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,080
We can accept it from Him.
246
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:59,140
And there's lots of people who are ill or whose bodies are not functioning the way they
247
00:15:59,140 --> 00:16:04,120
once did, and they too accept these things from God and say, okay, now I'm going to use
248
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,960
this as an opportunity to minister to others.
249
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,320
And when we talk about ministry, we shouldn't speak first about public ministries.
250
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,340
People have a public-facing side and speak in front of great crowds of people.
251
00:16:15,340 --> 00:16:20,340
We're talking primarily in your own neighborhood and really in your own church, reaching out
252
00:16:20,340 --> 00:16:21,340
to people there.
253
00:16:21,340 --> 00:16:25,880
If we really believe that the church is a body, that it's made up of all these different
254
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:31,440
parts, then we believe that God is fitting the parts together just perfectly.
255
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,760
And when there are people who are going through sorrow, what they most need is other people
256
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:36,760
who have endured sorrow.
257
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,920
We can come alongside them and minister to them.
258
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,700
And we could speak of several families who had endured the same loss, who reached out
259
00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:48,240
to us and offered us comfort that only they could really bring because they had passed
260
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,040
through the same dark valley.
261
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:57,000
And so if we accept our sorrows as being precious to God, as being meaningful, then we can turn
262
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,600
them right back and we can say, okay, God has given me this or God has equipped me for
263
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:01,600
this.
264
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,720
I'm now going to bring glory to Him by ministering to others.
265
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:09,880
I'm going to take this sorrow and turn it outward then in love for God and service to
266
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:10,880
other people.
267
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,280
And that brings such meaning and such hope and such purpose.
268
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:15,280
Yeah.
269
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,680
And we know that Jesus was acquainted with sorrow.
270
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:24,960
The Bible tells us that in Isaiah 53 verse 3 that He was despised and rejected by men,
271
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,080
a man of sorrows acquainted with grief.
272
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:33,840
Even with whatever you're going through right now, Jesus has that experience.
273
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,840
He knows what that feels like.
274
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:37,760
You are not alone.
275
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,400
And the Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit is our great Comforter as well.
276
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:49,680
And so, Tim, as our time is wrapping up here, I would like you to be able to minister directly
277
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:56,120
to those that are listening and that are part of the audience right now so that they can
278
00:17:56,120 --> 00:18:01,920
maybe experience some of that right now of what God has brought you through.
279
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,360
I know the Christmas season is approaching and many people will realize there is one
280
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:11,960
stalking less by the fire or fewer gifts than there used to be or one empty chair at the
281
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,480
table.
282
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,160
And these are difficult, difficult times.
283
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,280
We have to acknowledge that we're Christians, not Stoics.
284
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,880
God doesn't call us to pretend that these things don't hurt.
285
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,120
He doesn't tell us not to weep.
286
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:29,540
Jesus himself, He stood by the tomb of His friend who had died and He wept.
287
00:18:29,540 --> 00:18:30,840
Jesus was fully human.
288
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:37,080
He truly was a man who was acquainted with sorrows, the sorrow of pain, the sorrow of
289
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,080
loss.
290
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,760
And so in our deep sorrows, we should always be looking to Him.
291
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,880
And, you know, I said before that often we have trouble finding meaning in our sorrows.
292
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:52,360
But if we look at the cross, we see there this horrifying event which God had predestined,
293
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:57,840
God had planned would take place, as the Apostles said later, God's hand and God's plan had
294
00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,600
said that this would happen.
295
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,400
We can look at that event and see it was so, so horrible.
296
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,280
And yet look at the wonderful good that God brought from it.
297
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:11,400
And if God can bring the greatest good from the greatest sorrow, the greatest horror,
298
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,720
which is the cross, our salvation coming from the death of Jesus Christ, then surely God
299
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,120
can bring good and bring meaning and bring purpose from our losses as well.
300
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:27,320
And so I encourage people, even as we look to the manger, even as we look at a baby Jesus
301
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,360
through Christmas, I also encourage you to look to the cross, to look there to Jesus
302
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:38,160
Christ suffering, Jesus Christ dying, of course, Jesus Christ rising from the dead, bringing
303
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:44,040
us salvation, bringing us hope, and then bringing us the great promise of an eternity, a future
304
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,680
where all of our tears will be dried, all of our sorrows will be soothed, and we'll
305
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,280
be together forever in His presence.
306
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:51,280
Amen.
307
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,920
And would you pray for our listeners right now?
308
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,920
Yeah, I'd love to.
309
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,560
Our Father in heaven, we thank you that you are so good and so kind.
310
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:05,000
We thank you that you are true to your every promise, and we rely on your promises in our
311
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,000
times of sorrow, our times of illness, our times where we're so uncertain about what's
312
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,600
happening or why.
313
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,760
We do pray, Lord, that you bring comfort to those in this season who are suffering.
314
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,200
We pray that you would be present with them through your spirit.
315
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,800
We pray that you would be present with them through the word.
316
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,040
We pray that you would be present with them through your people, that your people would
317
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,800
speak the truths they need to hear in that moment.
318
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,320
We pray that you would bring them comfort.
319
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,560
We pray that ultimately you would help them to look forward to the day to come when all
320
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,680
our tears will be dried, when all our sorrows will be left in the past, when we'll be in
321
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:44,760
your presence, comforted, rejoicing, worshiping forever and ever, world without end.
322
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,960
We look forward to that day, and we pray again, Christ, come quickly.
323
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,360
In His name we pray.
324
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:52,360
Amen.
325
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:53,360
Amen.
326
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:57,920
Well, Tim, thank you so much for just sharing about how God's brought you through your own
327
00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,720
seasons of sorrow.
328
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,920
But I want to invite you to let people know how they can reach out to you, how they can
329
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,240
connect with your blog, your website, how they can get their own copy of Seasons of
330
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,240
Sorrow.
331
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,240
Sure.
332
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,560
Yeah, I blog every day at chalice.com, that's challies.com.
333
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,480
You can follow me there on Facebook, other social media channels.
334
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,360
And I would encourage you to get the book either for your own purposes or maybe to give
335
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:24,720
to someone who's going through a difficult season.
336
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,520
It's available at Amazon, at Christian Book.
337
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,200
Wherever good books are sold, you should be able to find a copy there.
338
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:32,200
That's good.
339
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,760
And you've got a YouTube channel as well with other things.
340
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,400
So how do people find that?
341
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,400
Yeah, if you go to any social media channel and just look for chalice, you should find
342
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:41,400
me.
343
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,800
It's usually youtube.com slash chalice or something like that.
344
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:49,080
And one thing that there's a song I wrote with City of Light, co-wrote with the band
345
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,920
City of Light that goes along with the book and those who are going through a difficult
346
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,640
time may be comforted to listen to that song as well.
347
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,280
It's called In the Valley.
348
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,280
In the Valley.
349
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:05,800
And we'll make sure that we put a link to that in the podcast description as well.
350
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,960
But Tim, I just want to thank you so much for sharing from your experience, for sharing
351
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,600
from your personal experience.
352
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,640
This isn't just something that you've thought about, but you've gone through and God has
353
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,560
brought you through it and your family through it.
354
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,120
And now you're helping other people just by being open and vulnerable.
355
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:26,040
And so I just want to thank you again for that.
356
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,040
Thank you.
357
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,040
Yeah, appreciate it.
358
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,280
This has been John Matarazzo for the Charisma News Podcast.
359
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:47,720
God bless you.