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Sept. 29, 2024
Max Lucado Speaks Out on Gateway Church's Crisis and the Power of Faith in Jesus
This episode was released on September 23, 2024.
In this exclusive interview, Max Lucado shares an update on his role at Gateway Church during a time of crisis. Max discusses the ongoing healing process, the church’s response, and how his "Just Jesus" sermon series is helping the congregation rebuild trust in Christ. Max also offers insights on how to support those hurt by leadership failures and provides a message of hope and encouragement for all believers.
Transcript
1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,840
Max Locato, thank you so much for joining us here on Charisma to just give us an update
2
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,040
on what's been going on at Gateway Church.
3
00:00:09,040 --> 00:00:13,160
We are so grateful that you have been able to step in and help this church, which is
4
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,040
going through a crisis that nobody was really prepared for.
5
00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:22,840
And you and Pastor Joe Aquim-Lunquist are kind of sharing the load of delivering the
6
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,320
word to this congregation.
7
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,800
Can you give us an update on what's been going on?
8
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,920
I have a pretty long history with Gateway.
9
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,240
I've been a guest speaker there many times over the last decade.
10
00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,960
I know many of the elders as well as staff members and ministers.
11
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,840
It's just a wonderful church, and they've done amazing things.
12
00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:51,220
My heart was broken like everyone else's hearts were broken at the revelation of the scandal
13
00:00:51,220 --> 00:00:57,880
that came to light last June, I believe, when it was first revealed.
14
00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:04,000
I immediately reached out to the people I know at Gateway who are members and express
15
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,600
my love and prayers for them.
16
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:13,140
I was actually on vacation at the time, and upon my return, Gateway reached out to me
17
00:01:13,140 --> 00:01:16,920
to see if I could come up one weekend and fill in and speak.
18
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:22,640
I did, and while I was there, I met with some of the elders, and they asked if I would be
19
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:28,960
willing to help them in a teaching capacity for about six months.
20
00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:34,880
That was the initial estimate of how long they would need to kind of regroup.
21
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:43,040
As you mentioned, I was invited, and so was Pastor Joachim Lundfest from Sweden, just
22
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,840
a delightful man.
23
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:50,160
He and I are splitting the teaching privileges at Gateway.
24
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,880
My assessment is, by the way, I'm still in our church in San Antonio.
25
00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,600
I've not moved, but that rumor got out there, but I'm not.
26
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,520
I'm staying right here in San Antonio, but I'm happy to fly back and forth.
27
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,280
It's very convenient for me.
28
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:14,720
I believe that the church is showing some beautiful signs of health.
29
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:21,120
Here we are almost two and a half months, maybe three months into this.
30
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,960
Initially, of course, understandably, they were shell-shocked.
31
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:33,480
Every time I go, I sense there's more energy, there's more joy, there's heartfelt worship.
32
00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,200
They are being reminded, as any Christian is at some point in their life, that we don't
33
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:43,860
put our trust in a person, a leader, or a pastor.
34
00:02:43,860 --> 00:02:47,760
We put our trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.
35
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:48,920
That's what they're doing.
36
00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:50,560
They're trusting Christ.
37
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,760
The elders are prayerful.
38
00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,800
They are coming to an end of 40 days of prayer.
39
00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:04,380
The elders have involved a Haynes and Boone legal firm to oversee every detail.
40
00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:09,600
They're trying to uncover every rock and make sure that everything is done correctly.
41
00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,040
I applaud the elders for their fastidious faith.
42
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:19,680
They're being extremely, extremely careful, not moving too slow, trying not to move too
43
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,160
fast.
44
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,640
I think they're moving at a good pace.
45
00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,480
I'm sensing from the church some renewal.
46
00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:31,920
It's going to take a while, but I'm sensing some early signs of renewal and hope in the
47
00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:32,920
church.
48
00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:33,920
Amen.
49
00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:34,920
Amen.
50
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,080
That's a great update to hear.
51
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:43,800
I want to know, as you're preparing messages to preach, how are you seeking the Lord for
52
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,280
these particular messages?
53
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,960
These are not just your normal... If this was your church in San Antonio that you've
54
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:55,480
been with this whole time, but this is a church that's going through a bit of a triage time,
55
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,920
how are you seeking the Lord about this?
56
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,840
What is the Lord speaking to you about how to communicate the gospel in ways that might
57
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,440
be unique in this situation?
58
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,520
Yeah, great question.
59
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:15,240
What I sensed is that I needed to seek the counsel of the elders of Gateway in selecting
60
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:16,780
my messages.
61
00:04:16,780 --> 00:04:18,600
They know the church.
62
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,240
They're right there, boots on the ground.
63
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:26,800
I went in one of my early meetings with them, maybe my third meeting with the elders, I
64
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:34,760
presented three different ideas for three different series of sermons.
65
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:39,240
Without a doubt, they said, what we need you to preach on is this idea.
66
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:46,980
It was a series of sermons that I had yet to compile, but I could do because I'm so
67
00:04:46,980 --> 00:04:50,000
familiar with the teachings of the life of Jesus.
68
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,040
I said, what if we have a sermon series called Just Jesus?
69
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,120
Just Jesus.
70
00:04:55,120 --> 00:05:01,880
We're not going to dig into any deep doctrinal questions or understand any prophetic interpretations
71
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:02,880
now.
72
00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,720
What we need to do is just talk about Jesus, feeding the crowds, loving the poor, raising
73
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,520
the dead, preaching the gospel.
74
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,160
And boy, did they resonate.
75
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:17,720
And so it was a pretty clear decision that the Lord was leading us to a series of lessons
76
00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,080
based on the life of Christ.
77
00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,760
And that's exactly what I'm doing.
78
00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,800
And that's what I'll continue to do until the end of my assignment.
79
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:26,800
Yeah.
80
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:32,600
You know, you and I have talked earlier about a book that you wrote for kids as just in
81
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,880
case you ever feel alone.
82
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:42,320
And I know that during times where there's a leader that has disheartened you or maybe
83
00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:50,800
there was abuse in somebody's life and they're kind of they feel very alone in this.
84
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:57,120
How can we as brothers and sisters in Christ, how can we reach out to those that are hurting
85
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:02,800
whether I mean, not necessarily just gateway, but there's people that are hurting throughout
86
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:08,000
the entire world that have been disillusioned by a leader or they've been hurt or abused
87
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,480
in different ways.
88
00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,640
How can we help bring healing?
89
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,440
That happens to anybody because leaders are human beings.
90
00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:21,720
I'm not excusing what happened at gateway and not excusing what happens at any church.
91
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,160
Leaders are human beings and inevitably some of them are going to mess up.
92
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:31,960
I've been disappointed and I'm quite certain I've disappointed some of our church members,
93
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:37,640
especially in a situation of moral failure.
94
00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,720
It's very, very difficult.
95
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:44,280
But if you know somebody who's going through that, you just reach out to them and you remind
96
00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:46,680
them of what has not changed.
97
00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,400
Though much has changed, what has not changed is that God still loves them.
98
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,120
God still knows them.
99
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,040
God will guide them through and ultimately God is the shepherd.
100
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:57,880
Our Lord Jesus is the shepherd.
101
00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:03,840
So sometimes under shepherds will let us down, but our Lord Jesus never will.
102
00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:08,700
So give them that word of encouragement and let them know you're there to pray and talk
103
00:07:08,700 --> 00:07:11,720
with them whenever they want to do so.
104
00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:16,760
Amen, Pastor Max, thank you so much for giving us this inside update on what's been happening
105
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:17,760
at gateway.
106
00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,920
And again, thank you for taking the time to help them through this crisis.
107
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:23,920
It's my honor.
108
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:24,920
It's my honor.
109
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:42,160
Thank you.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,840
Max Locato, thank you so much for joining us here on Charisma to just give us an update
2
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,040
on what's been going on at Gateway Church.
3
00:00:09,040 --> 00:00:13,160
We are so grateful that you have been able to step in and help this church, which is
4
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,040
going through a crisis that nobody was really prepared for.
5
00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:22,840
And you and Pastor Joe Aquim-Lunquist are kind of sharing the load of delivering the
6
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,320
word to this congregation.
7
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,800
Can you give us an update on what's been going on?
8
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,920
I have a pretty long history with Gateway.
9
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,240
I've been a guest speaker there many times over the last decade.
10
00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,960
I know many of the elders as well as staff members and ministers.
11
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,840
It's just a wonderful church, and they've done amazing things.
12
00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:51,220
My heart was broken like everyone else's hearts were broken at the revelation of the scandal
13
00:00:51,220 --> 00:00:57,880
that came to light last June, I believe, when it was first revealed.
14
00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:04,000
I immediately reached out to the people I know at Gateway who are members and express
15
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,600
my love and prayers for them.
16
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:13,140
I was actually on vacation at the time, and upon my return, Gateway reached out to me
17
00:01:13,140 --> 00:01:16,920
to see if I could come up one weekend and fill in and speak.
18
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:22,640
I did, and while I was there, I met with some of the elders, and they asked if I would be
19
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:28,960
willing to help them in a teaching capacity for about six months.
20
00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:34,880
That was the initial estimate of how long they would need to kind of regroup.
21
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:43,040
As you mentioned, I was invited, and so was Pastor Joachim Lundfest from Sweden, just
22
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,840
a delightful man.
23
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:50,160
He and I are splitting the teaching privileges at Gateway.
24
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,880
My assessment is, by the way, I'm still in our church in San Antonio.
25
00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,600
I've not moved, but that rumor got out there, but I'm not.
26
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,520
I'm staying right here in San Antonio, but I'm happy to fly back and forth.
27
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,280
It's very convenient for me.
28
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:14,720
I believe that the church is showing some beautiful signs of health.
29
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:21,120
Here we are almost two and a half months, maybe three months into this.
30
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,960
Initially, of course, understandably, they were shell-shocked.
31
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:33,480
Every time I go, I sense there's more energy, there's more joy, there's heartfelt worship.
32
00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,200
They are being reminded, as any Christian is at some point in their life, that we don't
33
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:43,860
put our trust in a person, a leader, or a pastor.
34
00:02:43,860 --> 00:02:47,760
We put our trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.
35
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:48,920
That's what they're doing.
36
00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:50,560
They're trusting Christ.
37
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,760
The elders are prayerful.
38
00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,800
They are coming to an end of 40 days of prayer.
39
00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:04,380
The elders have involved a Haynes and Boone legal firm to oversee every detail.
40
00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:09,600
They're trying to uncover every rock and make sure that everything is done correctly.
41
00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,040
I applaud the elders for their fastidious faith.
42
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:19,680
They're being extremely, extremely careful, not moving too slow, trying not to move too
43
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,160
fast.
44
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,640
I think they're moving at a good pace.
45
00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,480
I'm sensing from the church some renewal.
46
00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:31,920
It's going to take a while, but I'm sensing some early signs of renewal and hope in the
47
00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:32,920
church.
48
00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:33,920
Amen.
49
00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:34,920
Amen.
50
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,080
That's a great update to hear.
51
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:43,800
I want to know, as you're preparing messages to preach, how are you seeking the Lord for
52
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,280
these particular messages?
53
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,960
These are not just your normal... If this was your church in San Antonio that you've
54
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:55,480
been with this whole time, but this is a church that's going through a bit of a triage time,
55
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,920
how are you seeking the Lord about this?
56
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,840
What is the Lord speaking to you about how to communicate the gospel in ways that might
57
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,440
be unique in this situation?
58
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,520
Yeah, great question.
59
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:15,240
What I sensed is that I needed to seek the counsel of the elders of Gateway in selecting
60
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:16,780
my messages.
61
00:04:16,780 --> 00:04:18,600
They know the church.
62
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,240
They're right there, boots on the ground.
63
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:26,800
I went in one of my early meetings with them, maybe my third meeting with the elders, I
64
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:34,760
presented three different ideas for three different series of sermons.
65
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:39,240
Without a doubt, they said, what we need you to preach on is this idea.
66
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:46,980
It was a series of sermons that I had yet to compile, but I could do because I'm so
67
00:04:46,980 --> 00:04:50,000
familiar with the teachings of the life of Jesus.
68
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,040
I said, what if we have a sermon series called Just Jesus?
69
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,120
Just Jesus.
70
00:04:55,120 --> 00:05:01,880
We're not going to dig into any deep doctrinal questions or understand any prophetic interpretations
71
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:02,880
now.
72
00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,720
What we need to do is just talk about Jesus, feeding the crowds, loving the poor, raising
73
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,520
the dead, preaching the gospel.
74
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,160
And boy, did they resonate.
75
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:17,720
And so it was a pretty clear decision that the Lord was leading us to a series of lessons
76
00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,080
based on the life of Christ.
77
00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,760
And that's exactly what I'm doing.
78
00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,800
And that's what I'll continue to do until the end of my assignment.
79
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:26,800
Yeah.
80
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:32,600
You know, you and I have talked earlier about a book that you wrote for kids as just in
81
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,880
case you ever feel alone.
82
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:42,320
And I know that during times where there's a leader that has disheartened you or maybe
83
00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:50,800
there was abuse in somebody's life and they're kind of they feel very alone in this.
84
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:57,120
How can we as brothers and sisters in Christ, how can we reach out to those that are hurting
85
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:02,800
whether I mean, not necessarily just gateway, but there's people that are hurting throughout
86
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:08,000
the entire world that have been disillusioned by a leader or they've been hurt or abused
87
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,480
in different ways.
88
00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,640
How can we help bring healing?
89
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,440
That happens to anybody because leaders are human beings.
90
00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:21,720
I'm not excusing what happened at gateway and not excusing what happens at any church.
91
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,160
Leaders are human beings and inevitably some of them are going to mess up.
92
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:31,960
I've been disappointed and I'm quite certain I've disappointed some of our church members,
93
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:37,640
especially in a situation of moral failure.
94
00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,720
It's very, very difficult.
95
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:44,280
But if you know somebody who's going through that, you just reach out to them and you remind
96
00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:46,680
them of what has not changed.
97
00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,400
Though much has changed, what has not changed is that God still loves them.
98
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,120
God still knows them.
99
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,040
God will guide them through and ultimately God is the shepherd.
100
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:57,880
Our Lord Jesus is the shepherd.
101
00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:03,840
So sometimes under shepherds will let us down, but our Lord Jesus never will.
102
00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:08,700
So give them that word of encouragement and let them know you're there to pray and talk
103
00:07:08,700 --> 00:07:11,720
with them whenever they want to do so.
104
00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:16,760
Amen, Pastor Max, thank you so much for giving us this inside update on what's been happening
105
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:17,760
at gateway.
106
00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,920
And again, thank you for taking the time to help them through this crisis.
107
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:23,920
It's my honor.
108
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:24,920
It's my honor.
109
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:42,160
Thank you.
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