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Oct. 16, 2024
What Happens When Courage Meets War in WHITE BIRD
This episode was released on October 4, 2024.
In this insightful interview, John Matarazzo sits down with Andy Erwin, executive producer of the upcoming film "White Bird." Erwin shares the backstory of how this powerful Holocaust drama, starring the legendary Helen Mirren, came to be. He delves into the film's historical authenticity, the creative vision behind its whimsical and emotional moments, and the timely relevance of its message of courage and kindness. Erwin emphasizes the importance of audience support, urging viewers to see "White Bird" in theaters during its opening weekend. This interview provides a compelling glimpse into the making of this must-see film.
Transcript
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One of the children's missing.
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Find him.
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And how much courage it took to be kind.
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You need to come with me right now.
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I know I out.
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Andy Irwin, it's great to have you here on Charisma.
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And we're talking about a very important film,
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this movie White Bird.
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I mean, Helen Mirren is involved with this
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and it tells an amazing story
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of a Holocaust survivor in France.
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And I was really moved when I got a chance
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to see this screener.
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How did you get connected to this story?
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Yeah, John, it's great to be back with you.
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This story is connected to a movie
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that came out in 2017 called Wonder.
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And so that movie starred Julia Roberts and Owen Wilson
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was about a little boy named Augie
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that was going to school and physical challenges
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and some special needs.
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And as a result, he was bullied a lot.
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And he overcame that bullying
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just through the sheer power of his kindness.
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And it was a beautiful story.
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I remember when I watched it in theaters with my kids,
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I was like, if we could ever be involved
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in something like that, I'd be all about it.
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And lo and behold, I didn't know that Mark Forrester,
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who's an amazing filmmaker,
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has done films like Finding Neverland
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and Christopher Robin and Man Called the Auto.
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He's an amazing filmmaker.
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Had already started working on developing a spinoff sequel
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based on one of the other books
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that the author had written called White Bird.
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And so basically White Bird picks up
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where the other one left off
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and the kid that was the bully in the first movie, Julian,
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has been expelled from school.
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He's sent home and he's got to switch schools.
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And as he's trying to restart his life,
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his grandmother makes a surprise visit from France
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and his grandmother is played by Oscar winner Helen Mirren.
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And she says, you don't know your story.
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You got expelled for bullying another kid
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and you don't know your story.
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You don't know the history of your family.
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You don't know the history of your name.
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And so she sits down and walks through her story
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as a little Jewish girl in Germany
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or in German occupied France
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during World War II during the Holocaust
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and a little boy that put his life on the line
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to save hers.
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And it's such a beautiful story.
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And so we're so, pretty much someone's brought to us,
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we're like, we would just die to be involved in this.
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So it's special.
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So how much historic facts are in this film?
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I know there's obviously some license
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that has been taken with this,
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but how much is this true to life?
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And at least in someone's life?
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You know, I think Mark brought a lot of authenticity to it.
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The thing that was really interesting
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for him telling the story is that he, you know,
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he's Swiss German.
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And so his family is from Germany originally.
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And so he just brought an interesting perspective
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with being able to go back and retell this story
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of the persecution of these Jewish kids.
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And ultimately this kid that saves the life
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of the little Jewish girl.
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And he's able to write a lot of wrongs in history
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by telling that perspective.
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And so he really fought hard to be able to honor
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the historical context of the film.
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So a lot of the things that happened in the movie
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are things that were really being done,
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the way the arrests were being done,
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the way that they were hauling people off
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to concentration camps.
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And ultimately, you know, even that it didn't just stop
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at Jewish individuals, it was, you know,
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a lot of times where they would round up people
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from hospitals and physical deformities and mental illness.
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And a lot of those people were disposed of as well.
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And so it really kind of displays that context
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in a very thought provoking way
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that will emotionally grab you.
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Yeah.
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Now you've got a great team there
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at your production company.
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What role did you have in this film?
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So on this one, I was an executive producer.
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And so, you know, at Kingdom, you know,
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our goal when we started our production company
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was eventually to just look for other filmmakers
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we really believed in and give them the opportunity
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to tell their stories.
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And so, and get behind stories that put our name on it
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where it's like, this is a worthy one.
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And so this one was brought to us and we were like,
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we would love to be involved in that.
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We'd love to kind of put our stamp of approval
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that this is a worthy story, that it speaks to faith
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in an authentic way that shows the power of the gospel
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in action of laying your life down for your neighbor.
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And so on this one, I got to, instead of making the movie
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as a filmmaker, I got to support it
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and really watch one of the masters tell a story.
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And it was a beautifully told story for sure.
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And I love, I don't want to tell too much about it
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because I was really surprised by the ending of it,
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of some of the things that happened in her history.
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I guess that's the best way to say that.
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But I love some of the imagination scenes
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that happened in that car.
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Can you talk about just how that came to be?
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Cause I thought that was beautifully depicted.
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Yeah, that was one of the things where I was just eating
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popcorn watching the movie being made.
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And the thing that was really interesting about that
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was Mark threaded such a needle that this could have been
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a really gritty, heavy film that was unwatchable
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just because the time period is really,
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really hard to deal with.
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But he took it and took it in an opposite direction
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and said, I don't want to diminish any of the hardships
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or the struggle, but I also want to tell something
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that's whimsical and uplifting.
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And so the imagination he unlocked in that barn
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of this little boy and little girl that are friends
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and the world of beauty that they filled that barn with,
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I just sat back and do like,
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I don't know how you did something that whimsical
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in this situation.
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And he's done it before he did it in Finding Neverland.
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It's just something he does so well
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that he can take a really hard situation
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and add this whimsical beauty to it.
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And so some of those scenes in that barn are breathtaking.
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And the audience is really gonna love it.
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It's an uplifting film, even though it has very intense,
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hard moments.
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Yeah, for everybody that hasn't seen it yet,
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they really go on some incredible journeys in that barn,
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even though without setting foot anywhere else.
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But Andy, right now in our world,
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Israel is at war with Hamas.
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And then there's a lot of tension.
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There's a lot of antisemitism.
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There's a lot of Holocaust denying.
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There's a lot of pro-Israel, anti-Israel, pro-Hamas,
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anti-Hamas going around in the world right now.
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Do you feel like this movie is coming out at this time
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to give better voice to some of the truth?
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It's amazing that you tell a story
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because you feel like it's worthy.
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But then the time that it gets released
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is really out of your hands and what's going on culturally.
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But it's really amazing when the world matches up
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with the story that you want to answer.
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And this is one that when it was shot,
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October 7th had not happened yet with Israel being attacked.
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And the world has changed over the past year.
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And then you see the visceral feelings
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where it's been okay in so many parts of society
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to say things that are so antisemitic or to attack
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or to justify.
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And I think this story answers it
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with the courage to have kindness.
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And I think that to stand up for what's right,
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even if there's a great cost.
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And I think the first movie, Wonder, was about kindness.
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This adds courage to the equation.
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That she says, Helen Mirren says to her grandson,
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she says, when an act of kindness can cost you your life,
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it becomes somewhat of a miracle.
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And I think right now to stand up and say things
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that are right can cost you everything.
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We're not at a point in at least American culture
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where it will cost you your life,
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but it can cost you your livelihood.
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And it can cost you a lot of things
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that are not gonna be cheap to replace.
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But is it still the right thing to stand up
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for what is right with kindness, with love,
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understanding that people's hurt and experiences
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on all sides of the equation,
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but also standing up for what you know is right?
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And for this little boy standing up
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for this one little Jewish girl is like,
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I can change the world, but I can change the circumstances
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for this one person.
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And I think as Christians, that's what we're called to do.
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And I think it is great timing right now.
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Yeah, I agree.
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It is great timing right now.
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And as I was watching it, thinking about,
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man, this is coming out at just the,
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I mean, it's in this season right now,
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where there's, I mean, honestly,
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there could be a lot of pushback against this film.
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I mean, we have Helen Mirren in it,
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so it's kind of hard to suppress that too much,
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which is a good thing.
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But what are some obstacles that have had to be overcome
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with getting this film out there now?
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You know, it's just, there's been so much volatility
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within the box office and trying to figure out
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how to find audiences for dramas.
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And that's why we're excited to be a part of it,
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because we really, you know, when we were, got involved,
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we just really felt like, you know, yes,
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this is a mainstream drama,
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but it absolutely shows what we believe is Christians
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in such a beautiful way.
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And so really kind of fighting for the stories
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to find their audience in the theater
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is what gets more stories like this made.
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But like you said, you know, I would have never guessed
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the way that the culture could shift in a year.
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So the movie comes out October 4th,
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and it's three days before October 7th.
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And, you know, in the process of the year,
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how quickly the world changes
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and how it's not popular to say anything
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that is supportive of certain people groups.
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And, you know, this is a story that has Christians
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standing up for this little Jewish girl.
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And I think I absolutely stand behind that story.
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So I'm excited to tell it.
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I'm excited to be a part of it.
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And at Kingdom, we believe this is an important story.
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Yeah, I totally agree with that.
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And I like how you said earlier that the film,
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the director had opportunities to go very gritty
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with this film, but still adds elements of that whimsicalness,
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I guess, if that's a word.
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But, you know, it did not get like Schindler's List gritty.
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I mean, it's not all in black and white,
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and there's just one red element
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that's kind of a continuation theme.
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I mean, there are themes that are continued
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throughout the whole film, but, you know,
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how do we look for those whimsical moments
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while we're in trial?
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You know, I think that,
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and I do think that stories that are intense and gritty,
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like Schindler's List are important ones,
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but that, the kind of the signature of Kingdom movies
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are ones that give you a rush of hope,
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that they really, at the end, lift your spirit
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and say, I wanna go make a difference.
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I think our capacity as humans to experience joy
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is also completely related to our capacity
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to embrace hardship and trials and grief.
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I mean, the Bible literally says in James chapter one,
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consider it pure joy when you face trials of many kinds,
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because the testing is in your faith develops perseverance,
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and perseverance must finish its work in you.
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And I think that, you know,
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I think that we run from hardships so much
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and try to numb out,
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especially in American society as Christians,
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but I think the more we numb out to the hardships,
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we also numb out our capacity to feel joy or love
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or peace or kindness, and I think they're connected.
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And when you do embrace that life is very hard,
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you can find the beauty in any situation.
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And that's what this movie illustrates,
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is the whimsy that happens at the heart of this movie
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is something that happens in the hardest circumstance,
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but there's still beauty and life and hope
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just bursting forth,
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and I think they're connected and you can have both.
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And I think God calls us as Christians
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to experience both fully.
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Yeah.
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The Lord is with us even in the,
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especially in the darkest trials.
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And I wanna encourage everybody to go see White Bird.
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It comes out October 4th, as Andy said,
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just a couple of days before the one year anniversary
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of the October 7th attacks.
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But on October 4th, go see White Bird in your theaters.
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Make sure you see it that opening weekend
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because that helps it stay in the theaters longer
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and get out to more screens and more theaters
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so that more people can see this touching story.
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Andy, do you have anything else that you wanna say
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as we're closing here?
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Yeah, I think you said very well
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that that opening weekend's so critical.
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I think that the cool thing that's happening
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is we've only ever released at most two films in a year.
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It's usually one at Kingdom with Lionsgate,
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but because of the success of movies like Jesus Revolution
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and other things that we've been a part of,
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Lionsgate let us release four this year.
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This is the third of four.
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And that's because the audience is voting
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with their movie ticket.
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And when they vote with their ticket and say,
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this is something that we wanna see,
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the studios pay attention and let's make more of that.
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And so they have a tremendous amount of power right now.
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So get out and vote, vote with your ticket,
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we'll see you in the theaters.
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Andy, thank you so much for joining us here on Charisma.
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Thanks, John, appreciate you, buddy.
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One of the children's missing.
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Find him.
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And how much courage it took to be kind.
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You need to come with me right now.
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I know I out.
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Andy Irwin, it's great to have you here on Charisma.
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And we're talking about a very important film,
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this movie White Bird.
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I mean, Helen Mirren is involved with this
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and it tells an amazing story
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of a Holocaust survivor in France.
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And I was really moved when I got a chance
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to see this screener.
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How did you get connected to this story?
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Yeah, John, it's great to be back with you.
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This story is connected to a movie
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that came out in 2017 called Wonder.
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And so that movie starred Julia Roberts and Owen Wilson
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was about a little boy named Augie
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that was going to school and physical challenges
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and some special needs.
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And as a result, he was bullied a lot.
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And he overcame that bullying
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just through the sheer power of his kindness.
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And it was a beautiful story.
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I remember when I watched it in theaters with my kids,
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I was like, if we could ever be involved
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in something like that, I'd be all about it.
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And lo and behold, I didn't know that Mark Forrester,
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who's an amazing filmmaker,
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has done films like Finding Neverland
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and Christopher Robin and Man Called the Auto.
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He's an amazing filmmaker.
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Had already started working on developing a spinoff sequel
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based on one of the other books
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that the author had written called White Bird.
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And so basically White Bird picks up
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where the other one left off
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and the kid that was the bully in the first movie, Julian,
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has been expelled from school.
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He's sent home and he's got to switch schools.
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And as he's trying to restart his life,
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his grandmother makes a surprise visit from France
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and his grandmother is played by Oscar winner Helen Mirren.
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And she says, you don't know your story.
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You got expelled for bullying another kid
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and you don't know your story.
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You don't know the history of your family.
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You don't know the history of your name.
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And so she sits down and walks through her story
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as a little Jewish girl in Germany
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or in German occupied France
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during World War II during the Holocaust
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and a little boy that put his life on the line
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to save hers.
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And it's such a beautiful story.
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And so we're so, pretty much someone's brought to us,
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we're like, we would just die to be involved in this.
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So it's special.
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So how much historic facts are in this film?
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I know there's obviously some license
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that has been taken with this,
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but how much is this true to life?
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And at least in someone's life?
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You know, I think Mark brought a lot of authenticity to it.
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The thing that was really interesting
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for him telling the story is that he, you know,
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he's Swiss German.
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And so his family is from Germany originally.
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And so he just brought an interesting perspective
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with being able to go back and retell this story
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of the persecution of these Jewish kids.
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And ultimately this kid that saves the life
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of the little Jewish girl.
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And he's able to write a lot of wrongs in history
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by telling that perspective.
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And so he really fought hard to be able to honor
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the historical context of the film.
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So a lot of the things that happened in the movie
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are things that were really being done,
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the way the arrests were being done,
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the way that they were hauling people off
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to concentration camps.
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And ultimately, you know, even that it didn't just stop
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at Jewish individuals, it was, you know,
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a lot of times where they would round up people
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from hospitals and physical deformities and mental illness.
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And a lot of those people were disposed of as well.
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And so it really kind of displays that context
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in a very thought provoking way
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that will emotionally grab you.
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Yeah.
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Now you've got a great team there
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at your production company.
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What role did you have in this film?
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So on this one, I was an executive producer.
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And so, you know, at Kingdom, you know,
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our goal when we started our production company
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was eventually to just look for other filmmakers
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we really believed in and give them the opportunity
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to tell their stories.
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And so, and get behind stories that put our name on it
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where it's like, this is a worthy one.
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And so this one was brought to us and we were like,
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we would love to be involved in that.
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We'd love to kind of put our stamp of approval
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that this is a worthy story, that it speaks to faith
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in an authentic way that shows the power of the gospel
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in action of laying your life down for your neighbor.
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And so on this one, I got to, instead of making the movie
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as a filmmaker, I got to support it
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and really watch one of the masters tell a story.
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And it was a beautifully told story for sure.
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And I love, I don't want to tell too much about it
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because I was really surprised by the ending of it,
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of some of the things that happened in her history.
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I guess that's the best way to say that.
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But I love some of the imagination scenes
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that happened in that car.
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Can you talk about just how that came to be?
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Cause I thought that was beautifully depicted.
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Yeah, that was one of the things where I was just eating
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popcorn watching the movie being made.
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And the thing that was really interesting about that
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was Mark threaded such a needle that this could have been
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a really gritty, heavy film that was unwatchable
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just because the time period is really,
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really hard to deal with.
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But he took it and took it in an opposite direction
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and said, I don't want to diminish any of the hardships
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or the struggle, but I also want to tell something
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that's whimsical and uplifting.
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And so the imagination he unlocked in that barn
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of this little boy and little girl that are friends
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and the world of beauty that they filled that barn with,
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I just sat back and do like,
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I don't know how you did something that whimsical
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in this situation.
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And he's done it before he did it in Finding Neverland.
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It's just something he does so well
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that he can take a really hard situation
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and add this whimsical beauty to it.
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And so some of those scenes in that barn are breathtaking.
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And the audience is really gonna love it.
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It's an uplifting film, even though it has very intense,
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hard moments.
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Yeah, for everybody that hasn't seen it yet,
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they really go on some incredible journeys in that barn,
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even though without setting foot anywhere else.
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But Andy, right now in our world,
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Israel is at war with Hamas.
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And then there's a lot of tension.
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There's a lot of antisemitism.
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There's a lot of Holocaust denying.
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There's a lot of pro-Israel, anti-Israel, pro-Hamas,
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anti-Hamas going around in the world right now.
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Do you feel like this movie is coming out at this time
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to give better voice to some of the truth?
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It's amazing that you tell a story
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because you feel like it's worthy.
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But then the time that it gets released
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is really out of your hands and what's going on culturally.
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But it's really amazing when the world matches up
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with the story that you want to answer.
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And this is one that when it was shot,
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October 7th had not happened yet with Israel being attacked.
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And the world has changed over the past year.
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And then you see the visceral feelings
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where it's been okay in so many parts of society
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to say things that are so antisemitic or to attack
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or to justify.
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And I think this story answers it
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with the courage to have kindness.
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And I think that to stand up for what's right,
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even if there's a great cost.
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And I think the first movie, Wonder, was about kindness.
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This adds courage to the equation.
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That she says, Helen Mirren says to her grandson,
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she says, when an act of kindness can cost you your life,
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it becomes somewhat of a miracle.
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And I think right now to stand up and say things
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that are right can cost you everything.
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We're not at a point in at least American culture
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where it will cost you your life,
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but it can cost you your livelihood.
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And it can cost you a lot of things
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that are not gonna be cheap to replace.
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But is it still the right thing to stand up
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for what is right with kindness, with love,
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understanding that people's hurt and experiences
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on all sides of the equation,
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but also standing up for what you know is right?
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And for this little boy standing up
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for this one little Jewish girl is like,
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I can change the world, but I can change the circumstances
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for this one person.
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And I think as Christians, that's what we're called to do.
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And I think it is great timing right now.
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Yeah, I agree.
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It is great timing right now.
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And as I was watching it, thinking about,
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man, this is coming out at just the,
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I mean, it's in this season right now,
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where there's, I mean, honestly,
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there could be a lot of pushback against this film.
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I mean, we have Helen Mirren in it,
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so it's kind of hard to suppress that too much,
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which is a good thing.
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But what are some obstacles that have had to be overcome
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with getting this film out there now?
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You know, it's just, there's been so much volatility
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within the box office and trying to figure out
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how to find audiences for dramas.
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And that's why we're excited to be a part of it,
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because we really, you know, when we were, got involved,
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we just really felt like, you know, yes,
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this is a mainstream drama,
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but it absolutely shows what we believe is Christians
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in such a beautiful way.
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And so really kind of fighting for the stories
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to find their audience in the theater
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is what gets more stories like this made.
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But like you said, you know, I would have never guessed
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the way that the culture could shift in a year.
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So the movie comes out October 4th,
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and it's three days before October 7th.
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And, you know, in the process of the year,
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how quickly the world changes
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and how it's not popular to say anything
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that is supportive of certain people groups.
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And, you know, this is a story that has Christians
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standing up for this little Jewish girl.
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And I think I absolutely stand behind that story.
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So I'm excited to tell it.
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I'm excited to be a part of it.
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And at Kingdom, we believe this is an important story.
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Yeah, I totally agree with that.
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And I like how you said earlier that the film,
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the director had opportunities to go very gritty
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with this film, but still adds elements of that whimsicalness,
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I guess, if that's a word.
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But, you know, it did not get like Schindler's List gritty.
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I mean, it's not all in black and white,
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and there's just one red element
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that's kind of a continuation theme.
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I mean, there are themes that are continued
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throughout the whole film, but, you know,
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how do we look for those whimsical moments
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while we're in trial?
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You know, I think that,
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and I do think that stories that are intense and gritty,
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like Schindler's List are important ones,
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but that, the kind of the signature of Kingdom movies
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are ones that give you a rush of hope,
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that they really, at the end, lift your spirit
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and say, I wanna go make a difference.
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I think our capacity as humans to experience joy
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is also completely related to our capacity
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to embrace hardship and trials and grief.
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I mean, the Bible literally says in James chapter one,
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consider it pure joy when you face trials of many kinds,
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because the testing is in your faith develops perseverance,
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and perseverance must finish its work in you.
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And I think that, you know,
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I think that we run from hardships so much
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and try to numb out,
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especially in American society as Christians,
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but I think the more we numb out to the hardships,
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we also numb out our capacity to feel joy or love
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or peace or kindness, and I think they're connected.
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And when you do embrace that life is very hard,
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you can find the beauty in any situation.
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And that's what this movie illustrates,
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is the whimsy that happens at the heart of this movie
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is something that happens in the hardest circumstance,
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but there's still beauty and life and hope
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just bursting forth,
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and I think they're connected and you can have both.
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And I think God calls us as Christians
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to experience both fully.
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Yeah.
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The Lord is with us even in the,
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especially in the darkest trials.
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And I wanna encourage everybody to go see White Bird.
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It comes out October 4th, as Andy said,
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just a couple of days before the one year anniversary
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of the October 7th attacks.
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But on October 4th, go see White Bird in your theaters.
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Make sure you see it that opening weekend
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because that helps it stay in the theaters longer
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and get out to more screens and more theaters
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so that more people can see this touching story.
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Andy, do you have anything else that you wanna say
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as we're closing here?
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Yeah, I think you said very well
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that that opening weekend's so critical.
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I think that the cool thing that's happening
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is we've only ever released at most two films in a year.
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It's usually one at Kingdom with Lionsgate,
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but because of the success of movies like Jesus Revolution
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and other things that we've been a part of,
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Lionsgate let us release four this year.
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This is the third of four.
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And that's because the audience is voting
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with their movie ticket.
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And when they vote with their ticket and say,
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this is something that we wanna see,
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the studios pay attention and let's make more of that.
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And so they have a tremendous amount of power right now.
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So get out and vote, vote with your ticket,
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we'll see you in the theaters.
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Andy, thank you so much for joining us here on Charisma.
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Thanks, John, appreciate you, buddy.
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