Whispers from the Crucifixion: Decoding the Shroud's Enigmatic Message & Holy Fire with LA Marzulli

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L.A. Marzulli, it's great to have you back here on Charisma.

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And today we're talking about one of the one of the topics that's one of your favorites.

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And we haven't done an interview about this before. We've talked offline about it,

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but it is the Shroud of Turin, which is where a lot of people kind of get their image of

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who Jesus was, what he looked like. There we go. There's you've got that picture there.

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And you've done some great research on this for a while. Yeah. But there's some things that have

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come out recently that is shining more light and more attention on this. Tell us about this Shroud

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and the controversy behind it and what recently has come out. Well, first of all, thanks for having

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me on. It's always good to be on your show and break bread as it were. But I was drawn to,

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you know, I've been a Christian for 44 years. I was drawn to the Shroud immediately. I remember

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becoming born against birth, Phil, and, you know, trotting down to the old Christian bookstore,

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which that doesn't exist anymore for the most part. There are a few, but for the most part,

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it's not like it was 44 years ago. And I was drawn into this one aisle. I'm just kind of

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perusing and looking. And there's this book on the Shroud. I was like, I've never heard about the

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Shroud. I was instantly drawn to it, got the book, read it in one sitting, believed it.

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And since then, I'm sort of an amateur syndinologist. I'm a student of the Shroud.

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The Shroud of Torum is a linen cloth with a herringbone weave that is three and a half feet

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wide and about 13 and a half feet in length. It bears the image of a crucified man and rigor mortis.

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And when you look at the scourging, it's breathtaking, and not in a good way.

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I'm reading another book by John Jackson, who was one of the leading, really the leading

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physicists with the Shroud of Torum Research Project team. We interviewed in our Watcher's

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film, this is years ago, probably 12, 13, 14 years ago, whatever, we interviewed Dame Isabel

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Hickpicksec and Barry Schwartz. Barry Schwartz was the Shroud of Torum Research Project

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photographer in 1978. So they had it for 120 hours. He was up for 110 of those hours.

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He took thousands of pictures. We are licensing several of those pictures for our upcoming film

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on the Shroud of Torum, but also the Holy Fire, which is a new film. And no one, I mean,

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I'm just sitting there going like I'm blown away. So Barry Schwartz was the Shroud of Torum

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Research Project photographer. Barry Schwartz years ago talked about the carbon-14 dating.

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And the way that worked was they were supposed to take the Shroud like this. And they had already

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agreed on it. You just don't go, yeah, we'd like to take some carbon-14 dating. Can we come over?

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Oh, yeah, come over next Tuesday. This thing goes back and forth for like two or three years.

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And then they come back and say, well, we're going to take this and we're going to put it in place.

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This is what we're going to do. We're going to take three different samples of the Shroud,

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and we're going to test them. So they get ready to do this. The team is over there. And

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the guys in the black suits come walking in, stop the proceedings. About three or four hours later,

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everybody goes back into the room where the Shroud is and go, you're going to take one

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and you're going to take the other. So they did. And the carbon-14 dating came back in the 15th

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century. Everybody's going, how can this possibly be? How can this possibly be? And we talk about

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this in our upcoming film on the Shroud of Toran and the Holy Fire, which has been going on for

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2,000 years. But that's a whole separate story. And we'll get into that later. But the Shroud of

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Toran bears this image, and this is what it looks like, a very faint image on this linen cloth of a

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man in rigor mortis who has been beaten within an inch of his life. Look at the scourging. Notice

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where the blood comes out. Let me get a pointer. Notice where the blood comes out here. It comes

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out at the wrists. So a lot of people believe that the nails went through the palms. That's how we

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know. That's not the way it came down. The nails came down like this through at an angle. It's

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better to use a prop. It's kind of like that. Yeah, like this. So it comes out on the back of the wrist

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is what happens. And he was, I mean, the whole idea of crucifixion in the first place is you're not

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this number one, but the scourging is so, so brutal. The scourging is absolutely horrific.

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And it's front and back. It's like no Gibson portrayed when they got done scourging his back,

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they flipped him over. So he's like losing blood. He's in shock. And now the image that you were

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just showing there before we go any further, just to kind of explain what that is. So you have a

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photographic image of what you would see if you were standing in front of the shroud of Turin in

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Turin, Italy, I believe. Correct. The church of John the Baptist in Turin, Italy. Is that correct

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where it is? Yeah, it's in, yes. Yeah. And on the reverse side of that that you've been showing is

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the negative image where things really start to stand out. And the way this happened was,

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and this is, and we'll get into why the carbon 14 dating was skewed because it was absolutely

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skewed. We'll get into that in just a bit. So this is what it looks like. So in 1898, the Vatican,

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Turin, Italy, whatever, they hire Secundapia to take a picture of the shroud. So Secundapia

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gets his big box camera with the glass plates, right? This isn't your iPhone 15, okay? This is

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a whole different deal. And he takes all these pictures of the shroud. And he wants to see,

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his first plate is a headshot of the face. He's in his dark room, and he's got the glass plate,

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which is a negative. It's a negative. So it's not like, and people, unless you're a student of

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photography, you might not be sure what I'm talking about. And before the advent of digital

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photography, you would take a picture, which would be a negative. And that negative image,

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then you would take and create a positive image of it. That's how it worked. So Secundapia takes a

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picture of this, of the headshot. He's in his dark room with the glass plate, and he's trying to get

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it, you know, he's getting it ready. And he looks at the glass plate, and this is what he sees.

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Wow. It's a positive image on the shroud. There is no way that that's a forgery. Absolutely not.

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And the Shroud of Torren research project in 1978 proved, in my opinion, beyond a shadow of a doubt,

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that there's absolutely no pain on it at all. This is not a painting. It's not a painting.

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Because the image on the shroud falls off into nothing. And it's a frontal and dorsal image

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of the man, of the crucified man, which in itself, how does that work? So the body is placed in a

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tomb on a linen cloth, and then it's wrapped over him. He's not wrapped up in it yet, because

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they're going to come back and anoint the body with spices, which is why, you know, people had

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this whole thing, wow, you know, and I always go, why don't you just go to shroud.com and spend an

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hour there? Because you've obviously never studied it. So you have no idea what you're talking about.

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Spend an hour, and then we'll talk if you're not convinced. So the body is laying in the tomb

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for three days. And it's in a state of rigor mortis, as you can see here plainly, a state of rigor

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mortis. And what happens, this is where Dame Isabel Piksic, who was a internationally renowned

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muralist, her paintings hang in the Vatican. This is why she says it's not a painting. It's not,

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it's not, it's not. There's no paint on the shroud. There's little dabs of it, but it's not a painting.

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It's something else. And she's also a particle physicist. So it's like, yeah,

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particle physicist, that's a combination right there. She's got, you know, world class muralist,

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particle physicist, and using both sides of the brain for sure. Absolutely. We walk into her

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studio, and I'm like this. She's deceased now. Richard and I did 11 films together. Richard passed

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away a few years ago. And now my new business partner, Gills Immerman, and I have done 10 films

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on the whole UFO phenomena together. And we're working on the Shroud of Torrid and the Holy Fire

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together. We're in post-production, but I digress. So we walk into Dame Isabel Piksic, and she begins

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to talk about the singularity. She believes, as I do, that the body, that time and space as we know

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it stopped. The body was levitated off the slab. And I've got to be careful here, because I can

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lose it, and I'll start crying. Father God embraces the body, so time and space stops. What is the

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first thing if a father goes—and I got this from a fireman. Mike, I don't remember his last name.

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It was 15 years ago. First name is Mike. And if you're watching this, thank you. But he told me

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that where a fatality in an automobile accident or something like that, and the father and mother

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come, the first thing that the parents do is go over to the body and embrace the child. And so

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they bring them up to them like this. And I think that's what Father God did. So space-time stops.

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The father embraces his son. The body is levitated off the slab. The shroud is pulled completely

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taut, and then the body dematerializes in infinite points of light. Conjecture. But that's what we

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think happened. That's what we think happened. And then he comes out of the tomb, which is

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interesting here, is that his body is in the tomb, but his soul and his spirit go down to

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where? Tartarus, and preach to the fallen angels there to seed-worn. This is why Genesis 3.15 is so

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absolutely paramount in our study. So Jesus—and I just got this because we spent time at a Greek

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Orthodox church interviewing a priest about the Holy Fire and also the shroud. You'll see a lot

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of icons in Greek Orthodoxy where Jesus is like this, you know, holding up His hand like this.

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What this is, it's Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, fully man, fully God. No, I'm sorry,

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fully God, fully man. And the circle that it creates is perfection.

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So that's what that symbol means. That's what that symbol means. It's been around for like 2000 years.

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Wow. This is what they would do. This is like—because you couldn't talk about it,

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especially 2000 years ago. You couldn't openly talk about it. So they would go like this,

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and they all knew what they were saying. Yeah. So, Eli, let's talk about the shroud again. So

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the last time we kind of talked about it from a scientific aspect, you said that it was

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carbon-14 dated back to the 15th century. What changed about that? There was a controversy

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about that because it was just one spot as opposed to three. Tell me about what happened.

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Well, the scientists recently just came out with this, but we've known about it for a while.

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So the team is only allowed to take a sample from one place, and it skews the whole deal.

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So enter Joe Marino, who we interviewed for our film. And I got to tell you a little backstory.

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Something very serendipitous happened with my interview with Joe. I hadn't connected the dots

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from 15 years prior, where I interviewed his wife and Joe on my show. But I'd forgotten

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whose people were. His wife passed away. Joe Marino was a monk in a monastery, but he was

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drawn to the shroud just like I was, just drawn to the shroud. So he's in a monastery, and he goes

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online, and he meets this woman online who is a syndontologist, an amateur syndontologist. And

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they strike up this relationship. One thing leads to another. Joe leaves the monastery

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and marries her, right? Unbelievable. So they're looking at all this going like,

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there's no way. Something's wrong here. So they start doing research.

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When the fire happened, and you can see here, this is from, these marks here are from the fire.

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OK. And down here, too. You can see the marks. They are from the fire, here and here, from the

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fire. So the shroud was in a fire at some point. In the 15th century, the shroud was in a fire.

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So the poor sisters of Claire go in, and they begin to repair the shroud and do end-to-end

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splicing. It's called invisible reweaving. OK. And they dye the cotton fibers to look like the

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linen fibers, and it's end-to-end splicing. You can't see it with the naked eye. That's how

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incredible it is. So they know this. So they write a paper. And the paper states that the

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Carbon 14 Damien was skewed because of the 15th century reweaving by the poor sisters of Claire.

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So one of the shroud research project members had samples of the shroud, of the actual cloth,

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down in his laboratory. He goes, well, I can debunk this in five minutes. So he goes down.

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He just happened to have that? Yeah. Well, he was part of the team.

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So he was allowed to take it. And yeah, go figure, right? So he goes down, and he looks at his slides,

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and sure enough, and some of these were pictures also. And he looks at this, and he goes, oh, my

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gosh, they're right, end-to-end splicing. So they write a paper about this. That becomes international

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news. And everyone is kind of going like, oh, my gosh. Barry Schwartz comes on the record

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in our film, In the Watchers series. And it was something like, and Richard, God bless him, man,

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he was just amazing. He knew that something was happening. Click, he's rolling, man. He's rolling.

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And Barry Schwartz is laying down this story. And I just gave you the backstory. When they were going

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to take the samples, the men in the suits come in. And I only think of one. So anyway, when the 15th

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century carbon-14 dating report, or when the carbon-14 dating report came out from the linen

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from the shroud, and it skewed it and said, 15th century, it's a forgery. Everybody can go home.

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No, no. There was a million pound reward given to the university for proving that the shroud was a

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fake. Really? Yep. That's documented. That's in our film. And Barry says, you know, no harm, no foul,

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but there seems to be some skullduggery going on here. And I've also come up against that skullduggery.

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These people play for keeps. They don't want to know that Jesus was alive, that Jesus is the Savior,

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that He hung on the cross, that discouraging was incredibly brutal, that He rose again three days,

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that He is the Savior, the hero of all mankind. They don't want to know that. And so they keep

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stuff like this out. So this new article that just came out, you can look at the date, and you can

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and let me just read it. 2024. Yeah. A team of scientists analyzing the shroud of Turin,

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a large piece of cloth believed by many to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ, have determined

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that the shroud does indeed date back to the time of Jesus's life. So what's really cool about this

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is now we've got, once again, forensic evidence that this is real. They've never been able to

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duplicate. With all due respect to Joe Nicol and Joe, I love you, man, but when you tried to reduce

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the shroud, it didn't look anything like it. But you gave it a try, and I got to give you two thumbs

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up for that. You tried to debunk it, but you couldn't. This artifact is the most studied

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artifact on the entire planet. It is. I mean, it's studied more than any other artifact on planet

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Earth, and I call it God's calling card because that's what it is. It's forensic proof of the

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most important event in all of history, because no one saw the crucifixion. The dragon, the enemy,

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Satan, didn't understand the crucifixion. So he's figuring, well, he's going to come down,

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he'll heal himself for all the wounds, and we'll all go home at the end of the day. He didn't

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understand. Nobody got it. Mary didn't get it. John the apostle, they're at the feet of the cross.

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They don't get it either. They're figuring, well, he's got to come down soon. He'll heal himself,

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just like he healed the lepers and the blind men. He'll just transform, and he'll come down,

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and we'll go about our business. No, it doesn't happen that way. And that's what the dragon never

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thought. How can you kill God? Mary's going, well, we can't kill God, can you? And that's why he's

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fully God and fully man. Fully God, fully man, which is absolutely mind-boggling when you think

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about it. And that's where he separates. Just like if I died, God forbid, today, my body would—I'm

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not getting cremated—my body would go back into the earth. My soul and my spirit, what does Paul

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tell us? To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I'd be with the Lord in

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paradise, but I don't get my resurrected body till the rapture of the church happens. And then it's

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like, whee! Now I'm in a glorified body. And how cool is that? So Jesus comes back. He goes down.

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First, He goes down to Tartarus, and He preaches to the fallen angels in gloomy dungeons—and that's

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a three-hour discussion—that you're not getting out. There is no jailbreak. I've got the keys

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right here. Game over, checkmate, it's over. Then He goes back, He resurrects. And one of my favorite

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passages in the whole Bible is the upper room where the apostles are huddled, and they're all

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totally freaked out. You know, we're next, we're all going to die. And, you know, it's like we've got…

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people don't understand the humor in the Bible. And by the way, folks, you can get this incredible

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mug I'm holding by going to lemarzulli.com. But I…

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That is your favorite, or one of your calling cards.

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Absolutely. That I digress.

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I love it.

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Yeah. So anyway, hold on. Ellie, that's so unprofessional. Thank you. So the gentle Jesus,

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the one with the lamb on his shoulders, you know, high on Jesus, and I'm really gentle and kind.

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Now, He's always goofing on the apostles, always, always, always, always. That's part of His job

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description. You know, keep them out of their comfort zones. And the humor here is this.

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So the gentle Jesus would do, hey, guys, I know you're all gathered up in the upper room. It's me.

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I don't want to alarm you, but I have risen from the dead now. So I'm going to come in. I'm not a

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ghost. Everything's totally cool. Okay? Take a deep breath. I'm going to count to three, and then

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I'm going to come in. I'm going to open the door slowly. I'm going to show you the piercing. And so

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you know it's me, but just trust me here, okay? So He opens the door really slowly, and He shows

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His hand. No, that's not what happens at all. He comes through the wall. Ta-da! It's just like…

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I mean, it's just unbelievable. And the apostles are, ah, a ghost! Oh my God! What am I going to

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do? Ah! They're totally freaked out. If that's not humorous, I don't know what is. I mean,

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it's like a college prank in a way. I mean, it really is. It's just hysterical. And they touch

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Him, and they feel Him, and they go, my gosh, it's you! And the wounds are there and the whole deal.

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I don't believe His body bears the scars of the flagellation. I don't believe that.

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But I don't know, because I haven't seen Him. You know, that would be something to carry around

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for eternity. Could He show them to us? Yeah, He could, you know. But…

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But we do know that the wrists and the side…

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The side and the neck…

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…are there.

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…is Thomas. Yeah, He shows Thomas that. So, and then He does the most guy thing He could possibly

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do. It's a total guy thing. Hey, guys, you got anything to eat? You know, it's such an incredible

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moment. I mean, I'm hungry after a three-day fast, too. So…

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Yeah, it's like a three-day fast. I'm really hungry.

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Yeah. So, now they've taken a second look at this, and they've said that this is now,

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like, it's now conclusive that it is from the time of Jesus, and it is showing, depicting a crucified

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man with what appears to be piercings around his forehead, around on his wrists, and his side.

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It really seems to be pointing to this is Jesus. At the very least, it is another person that was

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crucified, but then somehow there's no other body there. There's no evidence of decaying bodies.

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Because that leads to other things there. I remember somebody saying, and maybe it was you

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in a previous conversation, where during the atomic bomb, Hiroshima, as that energy went out,

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as that bomb went out, there's actually shadows that have been permanently…

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On the wall. …on the walls.

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Is something like that how we got this image? Yeah, we believe, and this is where it gets into

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our film, The Holy Fire, which will be available coming to you, but probably end of September,

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October sometime. So, we had this on film. So, here's the backstory. The Holy Fire has been

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going on for 1700 years. And there's testimony that Peter saw it also. And the Holy Fire would

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appear on the slab where Jesus lay, and it undulates. It's this bluish-white flame.

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Okay, so all you skeptics out there, let's walk through this. Moses in the burning bush that

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doesn't burn? What's that? You tell me. The pillar of flame that leads the Israelites through the

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desert? What's that? What about the tongues of fire appearing over the apostles' heads? What's that?

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Right? And we don't know. What if it's cold plasma? What if the Holy Spirit,

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what if the Holy Spirit, that's, you know, when He manifests, that's how He…I'm just saying,

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I don't know. So, the Holy Fire has been appearing in Jerusalem for 2000 years. But when the Romans

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came down and wiped out the temple in AD 70, it's still there. But in 125, 130, in that window of

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time, the Barakoshpa revolt, the Romans came in, that's it, we're done, no Jews are allowed in the

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city. They kill everybody, throw everybody out of the city. They build the Temple of Venus over

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Calvary. They build the Temple of Venus over Calvary and the Temple of Jupiter on the Temple

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Mount, a matter of historical record. It sits like that from 125 to about 300. Enter Constantine,

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Christianity becomes the state religion, state number one, and then his mother Helena goes down

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and she goes, where was Calvary? Well, the locals all know. The people who were there, they all know.

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Now, some people go, well, they didn't want to tell her where it was. Well, the Romans knew where

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it was. They built the Temple of Venus right over Calvary. So, they completely deconstruct the Temple

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of Venus. They find Calvary, and below it, here, is where the tomb is. They find all this, okay?

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From that point in time, every single year, including when the Muslims controlled Jerusalem,

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the Holy Fires appeared. Now, this is important because this is to your point,

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to the point where the Muslims tore down the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, but the flame

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appeared over the slab the next year. When the Christians got it, they rebuilt the thing,

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the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, the Muslims took control of it again, and the Holy Sepulcher

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the Holy Fire would come down to the roof of the Basilica like a dove, looking like a dove,

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and light the lamps, and all the Muslims would convert to Christianity. So, the Calvary goes,

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well, this isn't going to work for us. So, they pull out all the wicks, the cotton wicks, and insert

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lead where the wicks would be. So, the Holy Fire comes down, lights all the lamps anyway. So,

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then the Calvary goes, put them all out. Holy Fire comes back down again, lights them again.

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The third time, he goes, that's it. We don't know what this is, but it's not a trick. So,

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it's been going on for 1700 years. And originally, the eticule is the building that surrounds

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the slab where the body lay. That's the eticule. So, we had this on film. So,

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Giulio Fanti, who we interviewed, goes to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, and he gets

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on his candles, he gets the Holy Fire. He has a piece of linen like this,

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all right, and below it are two candles. Let me see if I can try to make this work. So,

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one candle is here, and it is a normal candle, and he lights it. The other candle, he lights with the

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Holy Fire. So, this candle is just a lighter, takes a cigarette lighter and lights it. This candle is

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the Holy Fire. The one here with the normal fire burns right through the paper. Fire here

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just scorches it, just scorches it. And so, we think this is why our film is so important.

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We think the Holy Fire is the mechanism that creates the image on the shroud, because this

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is what it looks like when you take the Holy Fire with linen, two candles, one candle burns

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right through the linen. Holy Fire scorches it like this. I know, I know, and it's a mixed bag,

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and people, ah, it sounds like a power trick to me. And it's like the naysayers are always there

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to tell you where you're going wrong. But why, think about this, the Church, evangelicals,

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we haven't heard of, I never heard of the Holy Fire until about four or five months ago.

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And now we're doing a film. The Lord completely redirected our steps. We were supposed to be

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across the pond filming for Ametreo of Anephilene. The Lord goes, I didn't tell you to go there.

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Okay, sorry, we're not going over there. And now we're doing a film on the Shroud of Turin

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and the Holy Fire. Wow. Yeah. That's fascinating. God's ordering our steps.

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I love how the Lord is ordering your steps, and they're not the normal steps that most people

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are told to take. God tells you often to make a documentary about this thing that people aren't

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going to believe, but do it anyway, because, yeah. And that's, LA, your next book, The Rungs of

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Disclosure, talks about so many things that are unfolding in front of us right now. There's

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supernatural alien manifestations happening all over the place. And we're seeing those pop up more

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and more, even around different historic events. I mean, I've heard reports of, even at the

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attempted Trump assassination, that there were orbs and things flying around there.

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There's been other things that have been happening in Israel recently. Tell us what's been happening

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with this Rungs of Disclosure. Well, first of all, we signed with Charisma, and we are absolutely

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delighted and excited to be part of the Charisma team. We're glad to have you. We're glad to have

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you. Well, some of this is because of you. Let's give credit where credit is due. And I know that

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when we reprinted Amitra of the Nephilim books, the leftover books were being stolen out of

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Spring Pages offices. So anyway, this is the Lord's doing, and we're excited about it. But

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one of the last rungs of Disclosure is where David Grush, who's a whistleblower, is before

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the congressional hearings on UAPs, UFOs. And Nancy Mace, who is the congresswoman from South

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Carolina, is questioning Grush about this. And she says, well, what about, do we actually have

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crashed craft in our possession? And he goes, yes, we have crashed craft in our possession.

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And then her follow-up question is, well, were there bodies retrieved from the U.S.

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Army? Were there bodies retrieved from the crashed craft?

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Crashed craft, stated earlier, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?

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He's kind of dancing around the question a little bit.

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As I've stated publicly already in my News Nation interview, biologics came with some of these

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recoveries. Yeah. And he says, yes, bodies were retrieved. Then she follows up with the, you know,

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the coup de Gracie. She goes... Were they, I guess, human or non-human biologics?

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And then she goes, no, we don't have that. She's just saying that it's just a

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personal assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that

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are currently still on the program. So all this, all this, because we're in the last days,

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because 1948, Israel becomes a nation, Roswell happens in 47, the atomic bomb happens in 45,

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Roswell happens in 47, Israel in 48, and then the whole UFO thing begins to version where the

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UFOs go through the roof, including the flyby over Washington, DC, including Barry Thomas's book,

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the Nephilim Return to Israel. I mean, they are obsessed with nukes because I think that that's

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their trigger. I'm not going to give away the end of the book, but that's the very last chapter in

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the book. It's also the last chapter in our film, you know, nine and 10, and then our ongoing UFO

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series. And this is an interactive book. We have a site, which is not up yet. It's rungsofdisclosure.com.

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And we're going to put a link to it in the book. So when you go there, if there are updates,

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the updates will be there. But when, let's say the footnotes in chapter one, guess what? You go to

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rungs of disclosure, here are the footnotes. Oh, here's the clip LA is talking about. We're giving

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out to the folks. They can really understand what, because this ain't going away. I mean, right now

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UFOs are pushed to the side. And of course, with the assassination, let me just say one thing about

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that. Don't you folks find it amazing that they cremated the body 10 days later? So were there any

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paraffin tests done on the body? I mean, seriously, this is a controlled narrative. If you don't think

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so, you're sleeping, you know, then believe what you want to believe. But this is unbelievable.

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It's unbelievable. Yeah. So the more we get closer to the end of time, we're seeing more and more of

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these extraterrestrial and not being from another planet, so much another dimension, interdimensional

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interdimensional beings. We're seeing all of these things come out in more frequency. I mean, all over

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the internet, I'm seeing it showing up. And it's like, these don't look like just fake AI generated

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things. These are people talking about it. And now there are definitely some fake ones out there.

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Oh, absolutely. Sure. And anytime that I see one, I normally am texting it to you like, hey,

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what do you think about this? What do you think about this? Because you've been in this for so

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long, where you are looking for the truth amongst all this craziness. Help us to kind of, in the

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couple minutes we have left here, help us just to kind of understand what do we need to do about

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this? Yes, things are being disclosed, but what is our response? Our response is we have to have a

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Christian perspective, because every Friday night on the Ancient Alien series, and God bless those

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guys, you know, it's one of the longest running television shows, your kids and your grandkids

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watch that. So they've been indoctrinated. They believe we've been visited by extraterrestrials.

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Take a step further, guys like Richard Dawkins, one of the premier evolutionists of the 20s and

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21st centuries, will state on the record that he believes, and we showed this in Ben Stein's movie,

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Expelled, No Intelligence Allowed. When Stein sits down with Dawkins, where do you think life came

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from? And Dawkins is saying, well, it could have happened this way. You know, in a galaxy far, far

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away, a race of extraterrestrials who had to evolve by some Darwinian process, you know, created us

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here. And that's called panspermia. So that's what the neo-Darwinists were looking for, that we were

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seated here. And we have to, I've, look, I'm pushing back. That's why the book, that's why the films.

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We're coming from a Christian perspective all the time. We have not been visited by extraterrestrials.

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We have been visited by interdimensional entities that have a very extremely nefarious agenda. It's

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the mixing of the seed. Daniel 2.43 says, their seed will mingle with the seed of men, but they

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will not cleave to him. Who are they? Well, it's not human beings. Their seed will mingle with the

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seed of men. And no cleaving. I got this from my friend and author, Jim Williamson. The word cleave

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is the same word we get way back in Genesis. A man will leave his father and member cleaved to his

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wife. There is no marriage contract. These nefarious entities just take what they want. They just grab

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the women. They take ovum from them or they impregnate them. They take a sperm from the men.

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And when we go, why would God allow this? And my retort to that, well, why does God allow us which?

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We are under the thumb of the prince of this world right now. And that is why the king is coming back.

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I'm not a date setter, but I think it's next Wednesday. Of course, I'm saying that tongue in

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cheek, but it's, and I hope it is next Wednesday. I really do. Cause you can't fix this anymore.

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And we need to stand up and push back against the prevailing narrative. And the coming great

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deception is already all around us. Ancient Aliens and other shows, there's a new book,

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I won't tell you the name of the author. I won't disparage him. I'm in the process of reading it.

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But this guy is a Greek scholar and he's rewriting the Bible. He's trying to tell us that,

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well, the Bible that we're reading was rewritten so many times. Well, I've heard this argument a

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million times before, but what about the Dead Sea Scrolls? I mean, it was that rewritten 2000 years

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ago. Why is the book of Isaiah in the shrine of the book where the whole thing is unwrapped?

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Because there's no difference between that 2200 years ago than what we have today. So the scribes,

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I mean, it's a straw man argument in some sense. And I've just started getting into this,

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but what's at stake here where he goes with this is Elohim. I've heard this a gazillion times,

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the Elohim. Well, these are the gods. This is plural. These are aliens. Oh my gosh!

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And that's where they go. It's just like the Anunnaki. Well, you know, the Anunnaki,

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the Sumerians are well before Moses and the whole crew. I get that. God allows all this stuff to

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happen. And then he acts. He brings in Mo and Aaron, two of the three stooges, because that's

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who they are. I mean, you know, Moses goes, I'm a man of like and barely talk here. And Aaron's got

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the goofy staff. I really shouldn't say goofy, because I'd love to have a staff like, sorry,

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Lord. I mean, a staff like that would be really cool to have, you know, messing with me.

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You just changed my picturing of the Exodus story completely. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

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I know. I mean, in some ways it really is. And I mean, that with all due respect, because Moses

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is just favored by God. But, you know, Moses is a murderer. He's an adopted baby, grows up in Pharaoh's

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house. And then he's a murderer. He kills the Egyptian guy and runs off. And he's a sheep herder.

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Gee, you know, why do you think he's tending sheep for 30 years? It's like, guess what you're

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going to be doing. I mean, Moses is an amazing, amazing human being, but he's flawed just like

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all of us. I don't worship Moses. I worship Jesus. Moses is pretty amazing though, because he gets,

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you know, to see God face to face in the whole deal. And the Ten Commandments, I mean, you know,

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it's like, he's way up here. And who appears to Jesus? Moses and Elijah. So, you know, it's like,

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wow, Moses was, but, you know, he's broken, just like all the point I'm trying to make is Moses is

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broken. He's just a human being. He's flawed. And God uses flawed human beings, you know,

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to further his kingdom. And a flawed human being goes, I'm not doing this. He's doing this, which

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is why it's everything that we do, our films, the books, it's all the Lord's leading. I mean,

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I never thought I'd be doing this at 73 years old. Are you kidding me? I should be playing shuffleboard

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in Miami someplace. Just joking. That's funny. So, LA, as we're wrapping up here,

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we're looking forward to the book, The Rungs of Disclosure, coming out very soon. And we'll do

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another in-depth interview about that for sure. But as we're closing here, would you just wrap

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us up in prayer? Father, we thank you for your word. We thank you for Jesus. We thank you that

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new information on the shroud has come out. And Lord, we just, I believe it's your calling

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card. It's the fingerprints of a supernatural. And we just thank you for your sacrifice.

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I look at the scourging and it's a real shock to the system. It's so brutal and so barbaric.

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And yet, like a lamp to the slaughter, you just, in some ways, Lord, I still don't get it. I really

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don't. I have a severity of it. But that's what you did for all of us. And I just ask that people

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who are watching this, that think they know who you are, but don't have a personal relationship

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with you are. They don't have a personal relationship with you, then they don't know

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who you are. And I would pray that they would just consider inviting you, Lord Jesus, into their

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life. And it's so simple. All they have to do is just go, Lord, I'm a sinner. Come in and change

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my life. I believe that you rose from the dead. That's it. If it was any more difficult, human

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beings wouldn't be able to do it. So we thank you for John and Charisma. We just pray a blessing

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over them and the book that's coming out. And I pray it would change people's lives and Jesus

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' name. Amen. Amen. L.A. Marsoli, thank you so much for joining us today.

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I'll bless you, John. Always, always a pleasure. Always an honor.