Pastor and Tech Guru Provide a Path to Sustaining a Soulful Life with Rusty Rueff and Terry Brisbane (S:3 - Ep 61)

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Welcome to Exploring the Marketplace Show, where we're creating a conversation for what

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God's doing to Christians in the marketplace.

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I'm Sean Boles, and my co-host is Bob Hasson.

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We interview everyday influencers, business leaders, and entrepreneurs from all areas

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of industry, exposing you to powerful stories of what God's doing to people just like you.

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We're also sharing our thoughts about what God's doing in finance, business, entertainment,

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and politics.

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Come join the conversation now.

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Welcome to Exploring the Marketplace.

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I am Bob Hasson.

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I'm with my friend Sean Boles.

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Sean, what are we doing on the show today?

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You and I talk a lot about there's no separation between sacred and secular, that whatever

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you do is a job.

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It is your mission field.

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We also talk about people working together from senior pastors with incredible business

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leaders.

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We have some guests today.

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We have two men who are working together.

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They've written a book through there, they've done a whole curriculum together.

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They've done this incredible message series that worked really well.

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In San Francisco of all places, you think about San Francisco and you think about it's

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not an easy place to minister.

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You don't think of Christianity in San Francisco.

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That's not the first thing you think of in San Francisco in the Bay Area.

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But they've actually been there for decades and they've seen God move in some really

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profound ways in culture.

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I love what they represent and how it's culminated in some of the activities they're doing as

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partnership together.

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I want to tell you about them.

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Gary Roof, Rusty is well known in the technology arena and he's been an entrepreneur, a tech

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entrepreneur for decades.

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He's spoken at places, I mean huge conventions and places where it matters.

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But he's also been on the board of, he's also been the presence of Vyjeevo for Arts for

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the Kennedy Center.

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He's been on a leader of both Grammy Foundation Board and American Conservatory Theater Board.

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So he's been involved in a massive way in the arts entertainment and in colleges, but

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he's also helped the church in a profound way.

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And so you don't want to miss hearing from Rusty Roof, but along with that we have Terry

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Brisbane and Terry is the pastor of Cornerstone San Francisco.

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And he also has his doctorate degree in ministry and has been pastoring in San Francisco in

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the city limits, not in the external places, but in the city limits, which is a big deal.

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I've ministered many times in San Francisco and there's not many successful churches

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that last past a decade or two.

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And he's been there for over three.

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And so these guys together have been bringing a curriculum that I think is great for everybody.

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Their new book is called the faith code, but I beat more than just a book.

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This today is going to be an interview about two men who are sharing an extreme alliance

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with God and have some language that I think you're going to want to hear.

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I know I want to hear it.

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Bob, you're going to want to hear it as well.

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So let's get to our interview.

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I got a word that the next great move of God's spirit, like a Jesus people movement is going

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to happen in the workplace, in the marketplace.

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And we need to hear God right now.

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You know, when you're working your career, your place in influence, your job and you're

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wanting as a Christian, a God result, there has to be a God process to get to that result.

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And we have to hear God.

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My friend Bob Hasson, I wrote a book just for you to teach you how to hear God's voice

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in the season of your life to help you in your place of career and your place of business.

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So there's no disconnection between who you are at church, who you are in your family

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and who you are in your career, but it all works together beautifully.

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And I believe that this book is a key book for now to help you understand what God's

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doing.

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So I'm going to encourage you to get this book wired here.

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And if you get it during this month, you'll get the masterclass where Bob and I taught

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on just the themes of the book and help bring it home, help give you some assignments and

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some impartation that's going to bring it right into your very life.

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So I encourage you to get wired to hear now and get our brand new masterclass free when

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you buy the book from boldindustries.com.

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Welcome back.

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We're here with Rusty and Terry.

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Welcome you guys.

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We're so happy to have you.

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Oh, it's awesome to be here.

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Thanks so much.

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I love that, you know, it's a pastor and business man who wrote a book together and a partner

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in some homeless project.

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And we're going to hear, you know, unique perspective because that doesn't always happen.

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I know Bob and I wrote a book together and I was mostly in ministry at the time.

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Now I'm doing more media, the entertainment stuff, but I was, you know, it's kind of

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the same feel.

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So I feel like we're, we're looking at our parallel universe right now.

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This is great.

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You guys tell us how this all started, this partnership together to work on, especially

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the faith, kind of like a marketplace book.

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Talk about this.

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I'll jump, I'll jump in.

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First of all, it starts with relationship.

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So Terry and I and another brother, David Brickner, who's the executive director of

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Jews for Jesus, who we would ask you to pray for at this time for all the things that are

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happening in Israel.

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And we were with him this morning and it was amazing, amazing blessings are happening

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in Israel, but we would, we would ask for protection over his team.

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But the three of us started many, many, many years.

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I'm kind of coming up on decades now, getting together on Wednesday mornings.

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And as a small accountability group, if you will, but talking about all kinds of different

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things, things that, you know, are about life, about my, at that time, as I was going

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through my business experiences and David's experience in ministry and Terry's experience

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in ministry.

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And out of that grew a relationship of trust, a relationship of understanding of each other,

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an appreciation of what I do in the marketplace and what Terry does in the ministry and bouncing

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back and forth how those two worlds can actually support each other instead of feeling, you

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know, that, oh, wait a minute, you're on one side of the street.

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I'm on the other side of the street.

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And on Sundays, we come to the, to the intersection, you know, instead of saying, you know, it's

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this is a continuous, fluid conversation.

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But I had given this talk right after the, the iPhone came out and I went to Purdue and

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I gave this, this talk at Purdue about, are you building your life as a platform or an

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app?

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And that was, that was the metaphor, right?

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And the idea being, are you building your life as a platform built on, on things like

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your faith and your values and your principles and your, and your deep relationships?

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Or are you building your life as an app, which are your interests in life, those things,

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those whimsical things that come and go.

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Do you, do you, is, is your favorite sports team, the most important part of your life?

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And when, when they win, it's great.

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When they lose, it's awful, you know, in your life crashes like a, don't get personal now,

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don't get personal.

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I'm just kidding.

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And so, and so, um, I was sharing that one day with Terry and, you know, over in one of

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these Wednesday meetings, and he had the idea, he says, wow, you know, what if we took that

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and turned that into a message series, which we did a church called Life Apps.

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And, and Terry would speak and teach and preach on the parables and principles of Jesus.

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And then I did these video segments that were a couple of minutes to five minutes long,

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the way that I filmed all over the Bay Area about the applications.

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How do you take all what you just heard and take it out into life on Monday?

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Wow.

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And, and that was fun.

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That was a lot of fun.

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And we got a lot of positive feedback from it.

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And then again, it was Terry's idea that said, well, why we've got all this stuff, what have

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we turned it into a book?

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And that was eight years ago.

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That was eight years ago of working on what could this be in written form and what did

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it want to look like?

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And that's what the faith code has turned out to be.

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And I'll tell you when I add to that.

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Yeah.

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So I, Terry, you pastor a church in San Francisco and obviously Rusty is your friend and you

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guys have built accountability over the years.

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But I know the pressures of pastoring a church all the way from the business side to the

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side of dealing with the human beings.

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How has the, the partnership with Rusty helped you to pastor the church?

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Like it's almost like I'm looking at a, if you will, pardon the metaphor, a king and

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a priest.

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But Bob, before he goes on, I mean, he is pastoring the easiest city in America right

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now.

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This isn't, I don't know if he's qualified to answer this too much.

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Just kidding.

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I'm so glad you asked that question, Bob, because again, you are pastoring in the Bay

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area.

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And so this is a great question because I think I want our listeners to hear this with

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interest and treat because San Francisco's boat is one of the top five worst places to

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plant a church and you have one there.

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So let's talk about it.

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Yeah.

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Well, I am a San Francisco, you know, resident born and raised here.

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So it is in that regard.

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And I mean, inside the city.

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So I've been in the city and yeah, it's my, it's my home turf to a certain degree.

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But I would use the terminology.

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It's my mission field and that if I can connect back to what you were mentioning, Bob, which

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I appreciate your words because you, you know, you both seem to know that shepherding for

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a long period of time is it can be perilous and it can, it could be dangerous at a spiritual

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soul familial level.

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There are a lot of landmines out there.

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We, we minister an environment that is supercharged at a spiritual level.

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If I can call it that it is.

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Yeah, it's just not all.

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I've been, okay.

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So I've been, I started here as a youth pastor and under my grandfather in a very, very small

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church, just a little bigger than a home church.

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And that was my exposure point.

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In fact, that was why I stayed in San Francisco.

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I had a chance to go and play soccer on a scholarship at the Air Force Academy.

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And I decided to stay and just go to San Francisco, stay and do my undergrad work so I could serve

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him because I felt called to him.

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I loved him.

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He was my spiritual mentor.

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And even though he died when I was 25 and that's when I became the lead pastor.

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Yeah.

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So now we're talking about, since I started on, I was about 16 in youth ministry over,

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you know, 40 plus years here in San Francisco, pastoring seen a lot of generations of ministers

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come and go, I have tales to tell about the older ministers that I experienced as a younger

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pastor in San Francisco, the midsection during the whole 2000s.

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And then now watching this latest iteration, iteration post pandemic, my relationship with

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rusty to answer the specific question that was mentioned has been a very valuable gift

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to me.

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And the book is a product of that.

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And it's more an outcome of a relationship that we worked at over the years.

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There were things that I could learn directly from him.

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He has such a wide range of experience in the corporate world, in the world of technology

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and in the world also of entertainment, which is an appreciated aspect of what rusty is

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done.

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And that's been a key exposure point for him as well.

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Of course, it's created unique also disagreements.

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We didn't agree on everything, right?

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And I'm his pastor.

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So I have to walk walk.

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We had to walk fine lines there and learn to sometimes even, even disagree in love.

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And I had to say, okay, what is the real value of this relationship?

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And I don't know how far we want to go on this, but I did gain strength from the relationship

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because there was an exposure that rusty gave me to a world that I was not as familiar with.

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I did, as you are aware, Bob and Sean, of course, have to lead at a CEO level, really,

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at a church through all kinds of different life stages.

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But it is different than the marketplace ministry, but so many of the people that we connect

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to and minister to are involved at different levels in marketplace ministry.

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So I want to know how they think.

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I want to know how people are experiencing the duality of being in church on a Sunday,

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maybe a little bit more involved, hopefully, and then the rest of their life immersed in

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a very different environment where it's not always easy, especially in San Francisco and

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the Bay Area and this whole Silicon Valley, as you know, is it's not always simple.

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You've got to negotiate your faith in ways that are both almost like Daniel.

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You have to be wise.

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Yeah, I could talk more, but I better.

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Okay, I'm glad to share that because I think I mean, part of what I'm seeing here in your

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relationship, there's a lot of pastors who have made the transition actually have their

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core friends, be people who can be peers.

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A lot of times they have people who are kind of serving to them as friends.

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And I love your friendship because it's coming through in this conversation as far as like

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there's a mutuality to it.

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It's so good.

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I think a pastor is one of the things that pastors and lawyers, professionals, also CEOs,

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people who are leaders of companies are some of the earliest people as well, professionals.

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So I love that you guys have come out of that box and are modeling something even as conversation

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that it's like, hey, we've been meeting for decades and this book came out of a relationship

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that we've had, which speaks volumes of your character and who you guys both are.

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Talk to us about some of the challenges as far as, you know, I know you're talking about

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kind of being a pastor in the church challenges, but I want to talk to both of you about some

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of the challenges of bringing a message like this right now when things are so energized,

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there's so much going on where there's such a fight for the even the word identity like

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church has been teaching about identity for decades, but the world's teaching identity

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as well.

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So you have, you have so many different kind of viewpoints that are out there and you

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guys are going right after the heart of a subject that really can define not just someone's

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success, but their actual connection to themselves in the world around them.

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So talk about that a little bit.

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In the end, the invitation of Christ is the invitation to find ourselves in him as a beloved

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son or a beloved daughter.

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And when we start in that place, everything else is on the table, including my sexuality,

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including my political perspectives, all of those things need to be brought to the table.

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If our starting place is I'm beginning as a son, a daughter of Christ.

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And that that has been, I think, a key part of how we approach the faith code, how we've

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been thinking about ministering in the environments that we're in.

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We can't expect people who don't know the Lord to be Christian in their worldview.

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I, I, it's, it's not going to, but, but I do think that people who are open and seeking

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and want to find greater stability, not being pitted, you know, in groups or oppressed or

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oppressed, we can talk about all those things or, you know, this is my identity in terms

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of how I define it sexually.

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Those things lead to confusion.

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And in the end, they cannot satisfy the deepest yearning that God put inside of every human

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being, every man, every woman was created, have a relationship with the Lord.

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And that's how we begin, right?

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Our source code is Christ.

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Yeah.

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What he taught us.

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Good.

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Rusty, you and I have been in business for, well, I know I've been in business for over

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40 years and I'm not going to put you at my age, but for a long time serving the church,

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I understand that language.

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I understand that language.

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We've served the church.

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We've been sitting in pews.

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We've been serving, you know, pastors and it must be so amazing to have Terry be such

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a good friend and fight for the connection of relationship to understand how you think.

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And you know, as he's talking, I know you and I are in the world out in the marketplace

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and we're peering in.

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And I see such a balanced conversation that Terry has.

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It must be amazing the fact that you've had input into his life and his thinking and how

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do you, I guess my question is, is the value that you have together, to write a book.

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And to think like each other and to agree to disagree.

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How's that been for you?

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Yeah.

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Well, let's start from the place that I, first of all, I'm a church guy.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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So I love the church.

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I think the church is an essential part of our relationship with Christ and those who,

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you know, in our world out here, there's a lot of people who go, Oh yeah, I'm a church.

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You know, I did church Sunday morning with my buddies on the golf course, you know, and

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I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

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That's not church.

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That's not church.

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So, so I start from that place.

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Secondly, I come from the place that, you know, God gives us experiences as gifts.

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Right.

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So we've got our talents.

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Right.

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That's a gift that we'd be given, but he also gives us experiences as gifts.

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And in fact, we write about that in the faith code.

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I get a little thing about what I call the Easter eggs of life, you know, that if you

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look around, there are Easter eggs in the technology world, you know, Easter eggs, those

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little things that are, they're hidden, but they bring you joy when you see them and you

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laugh and it will, you know, so if we look at the experiences of life that we have as

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gifts, then what are we supposed to do with those gifts?

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So if I've got a front row seat through the world of technology and the emergence of new

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technologies, which I've been fortunate enough to have for the last 25 years came here in

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1998, same month that Google was funded.

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So that was pretty early, right?

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And if I don't take those experiences and the gifts that I've given and give them back

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to the church as a treasure, then I believe I'm being irresponsible with those gifts.

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Okay.

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So I have, I have felt that I need to take those things.

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And fortunately, Terry has given me a platform and a venue and a receptivity from him and

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his staff to be able to bring those things back.

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And I'll give you an example in 2014.

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So we're recording this in 2023.

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In 2014, I gave him and his team a presentation that I called Cloud Church.

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Oh, wow.

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That's cool.

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Okay.

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What is this digital church going to look like?

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Is there something that we can do in the future?

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And part of that was a thing called an online campus.

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What would we do with an online campus?

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Right?

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And, and, you know, so I give that we do, we talk about it, it kind of comes, it kind

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of goes a little part parts of the go.

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Now there's two things I could do with that.

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One is I can go, I can't believe these guys, they move way too slow.

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You know, I should go to some other church, you know, who's going to grok what's in my

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mind, or I can look at it and say, you know what, Lord, you laid this on my heart.

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You gave me the ability and the place to communicate it.

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And I will pray over, you know, this may be used in your time and in your will.

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And I'll tell you, you go back to that presentation and you look at what we've done, what Terry

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has done with the church post pandemic.

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Right.

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The pandemic, the online capability of our church works a lot like the cloud church.

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That's awesome.

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Okay.

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So, so, but, and I will tell you, and I will challenge anyone who's listening to this

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who has a front row seat in any function business capability that they're in.

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They're a CFO, they're a chief marketing officer, they work in sales, they work in operation

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someplace.

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They, they work in human resources.

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Take that gift that God has given you and experiences and figure out how to take that

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and translate it to help the church, your church.

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Otherwise, I think you're being irresponsible with it.

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So I don't know if that answers your question.

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No, it's a good answer.

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Cause I think part of it, okay, I listened to it is that there's something that happens

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of course for the church and for you that just would never happen.

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One can take a thousand, two can take 10,000.

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There's obviously a multiplication that happens to both sides.

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There's just, but there's so much.

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I think it was like some of the things that like, I think of Bob, who's walks alongside

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a lot of ministries and helps them to kind of go to like a 2.0.

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And I just think when we get to heaven, there's kind of, you're going to look at Bob's treasure

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account and have inside Bob and putting it on the spot.

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And people are going to be like, how you didn't plan all these churches.

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You didn't plan all these bases.

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You didn't do all, but he did, he did because he lent his gifts and his experience, what

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you're saying it, and he's going to be rewarded for that.

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Like there's going to be that place of like connection to Jesus, the fruit of fraternity.

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And I just like, some of the people are fruitless because they're not involved with local ministry

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and I'm a local church.

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So I know this isn't the point of the show, but, but tell us about like, did you ever

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go through a period where that was challenged?

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Like where we were like, I don't want to be a part of this.

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Like they did move too slow.

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I'm just exhausted.

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Or did you, are you a hopeful, like eternal optimist in this relationship?

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Cause I think a lot of people are listening, 50 or 60% of the church according to Barna

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group is not, our Christians are not going to church right now.

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50 to 60%.

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And so like you're someone who's not only going to church, but you're finding a thriving

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connection to it as a business person.

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And Bob and I many times hit people on the show who were interviewing who are like, I'm

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just not, I'm not comfortable with a local church right now.

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I just, I just don't feel connected.

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And so you're having the opposite experience.

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Give us some keys if you can, if you can think of any, so I'm putting you on the spot, but

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I just think, if you went through any weakness where you're like, this wasn't worth it.

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Yeah.

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So I'll give you an example.

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So my wife and I served in the children's ministry for many, many years.

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My wife multiple decades there.

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And both of us, you know, loved and the, the aspect of the children's ministry.

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And it was an important thing for, for us in our lives.

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But we also recognize that at different, our different life stage, we don't have children.

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We don't have children in our different life stage that.

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The joy that we got out of that, that season of our life might not be the joy that we're

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going to get out of something else in another season of our life.

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And we had to go through that transition on ourselves and looking at, and you know, very

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well understand this, our children's ministry, which is really thriving.

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It's amazing where it's come to come from.

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We had a lot of transitions of leadership and it was really tough for Patty and I, we

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go, wait a minute, here we go.

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Children's ministry, ministry, ministry later, you know, how many times can we go through

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this and you know, like we're teaching them what we ought to be, they should be teaching

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us and, and, and, you know, but we found a place in our own selves where that wasn't

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the frustration point.

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We could have let it be, we could have let it be, but we found a place in our own lives

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where, hey, listen, you know, the season of our life is we're now growing just something

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else.

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You know, and so sometimes it's okay to leave some ministries behind to go do other things.

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And I will, I will tell you that since not serving in the children's ministry over the

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last few years, I have been so busy in other ministries that God has given me.

400
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Yeah.

401
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Right.

402
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So I host this podcast, The Faith Driven Entrepreneur.

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We've got the book.

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00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:48,680
We're doing this.

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I write my purpose working every day.

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I do all of these different things.

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I still get to spend time with Terry and his team as we, as we develop things.

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We're getting ready to, getting ready to speak three times in the, in next year at the beginning

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of the year.

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So God opens up one door when you, you know, think another door should be shut.

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But I will tell you that, you know, again, you know, being, being, being a church person,

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you must be active.

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You must be active.

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You can't, you know, if you wonder why people go, oh yeah, I go to such, such church.

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I was here for, yeah, you know, yeah, we've been over there for a couple of months.

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So we went over there for a couple of years and we ran into a guy this morning.

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I'm over at a place.

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Yeah.

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I think I've been there seven years and sometimes when I hear that, I think, you know, maybe

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they're not being active.

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Maybe they're being passive churchgoers because I think once you get active in a church, it's

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really hard to leave one.

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00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:47,840
That's really good.

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00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,240
Well, Terry, in our, in our last minutes, tell us why you love the book that you guys

425
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:59,600
wrote together and what we can expect from it when we read it and where to get it.

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I mean, one of the reasons I love the book is because it's, it's an honest word that

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I think speaks to the time that we're living in.

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And it is unique in a certain regard.

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00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:21,760
There aren't a lot of books like this where there is almost two aspects represented between,

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00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,560
as we say, a churchman, a pastor, a shepherd, but Rusty comes from a very different angle

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00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:27,560
or meeting.

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00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,560
We're converging together, we're overlapping, we're almost, I can use this word, the faith

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00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,960
code is almost a dance.

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00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:41,440
It has at times one partner taking the lead and another takes the lead and, and it will

435
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,280
speak to different people in, I think from different places.

436
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,400
I mean, the, the risks, of course, when you disperse is that you lose something.

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00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,440
The gain is that if you do it right, is that you gain synergy.

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Our hope is that the faith code produces synergy.

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00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,480
Now that won't be the case for every reader, but I do think it has the potential for that.

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00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,160
There's a healing component to this book.

441
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For me, the two of the most meaningful chapters have to do with healing from hurt and wounds

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and trust injuries.

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And specifically, this is an interesting one, not only on those that are done to us by people

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who should have loved us better, how do I get better?

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How do I heal up?

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But also to what I will call self-inflicted injuries, which all of us who live long enough

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will experience to some degree.

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And I'm not always sure which one is harder to get past.

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I suspect when it's all said and done, it's the self-inflicted ones that are the most

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painful.

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00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:49,040
And so we talk about that, how to heal, how to forgive, how to, how to grow and how to,

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how to become a more whole person in Christ.

453
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,000
And that's part of the faith code.

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So it depends on where you want to go with it.

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But anyway, this is my belief in why the book has great meaning and value and why it means

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so much to me.

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And I hope it will bless and help and heal and strengthen and draw people from places

458
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:17,200
where they might already have a real deep life with Christ, but they might be seeking

459
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,080
as well and aren't even committed in any way.

460
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,080
It's just kind of open to wanting to be better.

461
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,560
So cool.

462
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,600
And you can find it any book store.

463
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,000
If they don't have it on the shelf then it's probably because somebody bought one and they

464
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,240
haven't replenished it yet.

465
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:39,000
But you just ask them for the faith code and then online any place you buy your books,

466
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,600
obviously it's available.

467
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,320
And then we do have a website that you could go to to learn more about us and also about

468
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,320
the book itself.

469
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,320
It's called thefaithcode.com.

470
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,040
So really easy, the book title.com.

471
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:58,440
And then if you also want to learn what we're doing with the book inside of our church,

472
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,920
inside of Terry's church, our church, you can go to cornerstone.sf.org.

473
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,240
And it is our YouTube channel.

474
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,240
So either one of those.

475
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:14,440
But thefaithcode.com will get you right to the book.

476
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,040
Well, that's so cool.

477
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,840
Are you guys on social media?

478
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,840
Yes, I am.

479
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,720
I am just rusty with my first name and last name together.

480
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,560
And you can find me just across most social media channels.

481
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,920
Well, it's been such an honor having both of you.

482
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,480
And we thank you so much.

483
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,200
We can't wait for the book.

484
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:40,120
And up next you have Final Thoughts with Sean and Bob.

485
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,120
I'm Sean Boles.

486
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,640
I'm going to invite you to our Spiritual Growth Academy online where you can attend a four-week

487
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:49,920
class or an event every month, plus our back catalog is available to you as well on spiritual

488
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,560
gifts, especially hearing God's voice and also a deeper connection to the Holy Spirit

489
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,160
and how to walk with him in real ways in the days we're living in right now.

490
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,520
Come join us at Spiritual Growth Academy by going to Bolesministries.com and clicking

491
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,120
on the Academy button.

492
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,640
Welcome back to Final Thoughts.

493
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:12,880
Sean, I was taken with the relationship of both Terry and Rusty and how symbiotic it

494
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,920
was. You could tell that they had worked through some issues together, but they have a deep

495
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,120
friendship and love for each other and they trust each other.

496
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,400
And I just thought it was beautiful to see into that relationship.

497
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,040
Well, yeah, and it's what we've been hoping for.

498
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:33,040
Is that more people who are in the marketplace will have more of that sense of like almost

499
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,400
like that covenant of God with their brotherhood and sisterhood of ministers.

500
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,880
And I just think there needs to be this relationship that just goes beyond just doing things together,

501
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,080
but actually, they're doing life together.

502
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,040
And out of that, they've created projects and they've trust each other's voice and they've

503
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,760
spoken to each other in significant ways.

504
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,680
Like when he talked about Rusty shared about how he shared the cloud church and how then,

505
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,520
what was it, a decade later, the pandemic happened or maybe not even a whole decade,

506
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:01,520
but the pandemic happened.

507
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,640
And it didn't make sense when we first shared it because no one was implementing it and

508
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:05,640
it could have been frustrated.

509
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:11,760
But he just trusted God and then the pandemic happens and their virtual real estate campus

510
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,840
was really inspired by that whole message.

511
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,080
So it's almost like this prophetic message that needed its timing, but it was spoken

512
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,760
in a way to prepare the ground.

513
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,240
And I just think business people and pastors and leaders, spiritual leaders, we all need

514
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,840
to work together so strongly for what's about to come, especially because the economy is

515
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,800
shaken and because of, because the politics are so polarized, we need to like come outside

516
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,400
of those dynamics and come inside of how are we going to get the job done with Jesus?

517
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:38,400
Right.

518
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:43,160
I think one of the most important things, and I know in our relationship, you and I

519
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:49,640
have built trust together over decades of being together, understanding each other.

520
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,040
And when the trust is built, the walls come down so that we can really talk about things

521
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,840
that matter in our lives and our business and our ministry.

522
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:04,200
And we could really see that happening with Rusty and Terry that they've been through

523
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,680
a lot together.

524
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,200
And they're still together, they're serving God.

525
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:17,600
Rusty loves the church and there's this relationship where, yeah, Terry's his pastor, but they're

526
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:18,600
also friends.

527
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:24,680
And I hope our listeners really could see into the relationship and that out of the

528
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:31,480
relationship came a book which wasn't the impetus of the interview.

529
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,040
The interview was more relational.

530
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,040
I'm just glad we picked that up.

531
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,280
When I think, I'm just going to my final, final thought.

532
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,160
I think a lot of people, especially young entrepreneurs, they want that relationship

533
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,360
with like somebody who has influence in the ministry side of things because they want

534
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,640
that voice of wisdom that comes for with spiritual authority.

535
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,400
You don't need a senior pastor.

536
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,200
Go after somebody who's just doing life well, somebody who's making good spiritual choices.

537
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:58,200
It could be a youth pastor.

538
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,600
It could be, it could be just a lay leader at the church.

539
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,240
It could be somebody who's just been there for so long, leading a men's Bible study or

540
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,160
marketplace group or whatever.

541
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:13,040
And just start to give your heart to whoever is available to you and start to also receive

542
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,040
their heart.

543
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,520
Like don't just go to do things together.

544
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,120
Don't just go to do the ministry together.

545
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,040
But start to build relational equity.

546
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,160
And I think that takes, I always tell people it takes like four or five times to spend

547
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,400
time with somebody at lunch before you all really connect.

548
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,240
It just takes time, especially if you're trying to make a real connection and not just meet

549
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,240
about something.

550
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,480
And so, you know, invite somebody to lunch if you're a marketplace person, invite somebody,

551
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,840
you know, who's involved with a home group, your home group leader to lunch five weeks

552
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,480
in a row and you're going to get into a rhythm of life where you're going to start to want

553
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,440
to do life together, most likely.

554
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,520
And I just think we have to make an extra effort at these relationships to bring that

555
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,200
kind of quality that you hear that these guys have now after decades of meeting together

556
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,960
that you and I have now over many years meeting together.

557
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,080
And I just think you have to make that invested connection and relationship.

558
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,400
And I just wanted to say that because I feel like people want quick and they want to inherit

559
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:04,520
what someone else has built.

560
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:05,800
They hear that kind of relationship.

561
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,200
They get involved with somebody for a year.

562
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:08,600
They're like, well, I don't have that.

563
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,520
You're like, well, it took them decades.

564
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,640
So like commit and actually go on the journey and you're going to be so happy years later.

565
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,840
You're going to be like, I'm so glad I did life with this person.

566
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,320
And out of that came an abundance of kingdom activity too.

567
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,240
But the kingdom activity was a byproduct, not the object.

568
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:23,600
Well, thank you for watching today.

569
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:24,680
I'm exploring the marketplace.

570
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,560
If you've been listening or watching, we're so glad when you guys give us feedback.

571
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,680
So make sure to leave a review on wherever you listen to this podcast.

572
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:37,480
We would love if we earned your subscription, your like, your follow.

573
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,920
That means the world to us, but we also want to do life with you.

574
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,560
We have these episodes every week just for you.

575
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,480
And for those of you who've been listening for a long time, you guys make it worth it.

576
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:46,480
I love your feedback.

577
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:47,480
I love running into you.

578
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,920
I just ran into three different people who are our listeners as I was in the airport,

579
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,280
Bob and Dallas and both ways going there and coming back and also why I was on set at TBN.

580
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,680
I just have the best, awesome, most incredible people come up to me and say, if you hadn't

581
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,760
done that one podcast episode with that one person, I wouldn't have made the life transition

582
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,120
I made because of you and Bob having that conversation.

583
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,840
I mean, it's so profound when you guys interact with us and tell us what's going on in your

584
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:11,840
life.

585
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,240
So make sure that you can also email us at infoatbolsmetastories.com to give us your

586
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:17,280
testimony, your report or ask for prayer.

587
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,280
We'll see you next time.

588
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,280
See you next time.

589
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,920
Thanks for exploring what God is doing in the marketplace with us.

590
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,400
We have amazing resources for you at our website with free videos, taking online classes

591
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,360
that are online school, spiritual growth Academy, or get one of our books, including the one

592
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,140
Bob and I offered together wired to here.

593
00:34:34,140 --> 00:34:36,280
We have lots of ways to connect with you.

594
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,920
Come visit us on social media.

595
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:43,480
Just look for at Sean Bowles or at Bob Hasson or visit Bowlesministries.com.

596
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,760
This show is made possible by listeners just like you.

597
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,800
Become a partner or donate now to become part of our team.

598
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,080
If you enjoyed today's episode, share it on your socials or help us review it on the

599
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:54,840
podcast server you found us on.

600
00:34:54,840 --> 00:35:20,840
See you next time.