Politics for People Who Hate Politics with Denise Gitsham (S:3 - Ep 60)

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Welcome to Exploring the Marketplace Show, where we're creating a conversation for what

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God's doing to Christians in the marketplace.

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I'm Sean Boles, and my co-host is Bob Hasson.

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We interview everyday influencers, business leaders, and entrepreneurs from all areas

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of industry, exposing you to powerful stories of what God's doing to people just like you.

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We're also sharing our thoughts about what God's doing in finance, business, entertainment,

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and politics.

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Come join the conversation now.

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Welcome to Exploring the Marketplace.

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Bob Hasson, I'm so excited to do this show with you because I love the feedback we get

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from audience members all the time.

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People who've watched the show, people who've listened to the show, whether they're in the

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way to work or in the gym.

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And we're getting so much feedback from people like you.

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We have an incredible show on today, especially if you are in a journey.

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That's very, I'd avoid that maybe you wouldn't lead yourself, but you're following God in

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your career.

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I'm going to invite someone on today who is doing something exactly that God wanted her

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to do, as she would have never prepared for.

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And Bob tells us who it is.

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Well, Sean, Denise is our friend.

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Lauren introduced us to her.

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Denise Thrais-Gitchum, prior to starting her own public affairs consulting firm, worked

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at the highest levels of federal government in the White House, the Senate.

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She's a lawyer.

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She's worked in startups as a candidate for Congress.

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She graduated from Georgetown University Law and she appears regularly now on a national

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news outlet, The Hill.

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She's a contributor for all kinds of different things.

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This woman has, does it all.

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And she's written a book called Politics for People Who Hate Politics, How to Engage Without

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Losing Your Friends and Selling Your Soul.

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And it's just come out and we're going to have the best conversation with her.

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Absolutely, and I love that she's so spirit driven.

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She's so like, she listens to God.

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She's had career opportunities because of that.

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And I know many of you are watching and listening to me that right now.

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You've got encouragement.

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And so up next, Denise Thrais-Gitchum.

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One of the passions I have is to help people to understand how to walk with God and your

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prophetic gifts.

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And one of the prophetic gifts is word of knowledge.

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Everybody has access to this profound gift that helps you to understand what God's doing

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your life now, but also in your past.

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And God could bring a word of knowledge gift or a word of knowledge to you that helps to

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move your life forward in such a profound way, brings healing, brings strategy, brings

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wisdom and we want the wisdom of God right now.

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Well, my book, God's Secrets, was all about that and it was released five years ago and

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we have a five year anniversary edition that comes with a workbook and also a masterclass.

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So you could bring this incredible gift into your life now.

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Remember, Paul said to go after love, like your life depends on it, and eagerly desire

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the spiritual gifts, especially that you might prophesy.

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That's exactly what this book is about.

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It's going to help you to have the prophetic and action in your life and it will move you

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and your world forward.

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Well welcome back, Sean.

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We're with our friend Denise-Gitchum.

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Denise, you've been a public affairs, you had a public affairs company, you're a lawyer,

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you've been a candidate, and now what are you doing?

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What am I not doing?

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Right, exactly.

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Sean, thank you so much for having me back on.

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I feel like God has sort of connected dots in a way that I never thought he could, even

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when he's played what I've done in the past.

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None of it really makes perfect sense.

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I always thought, Denise, come on, pick a career, just stick with it.

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And it was interesting just following the breadcrumbs that God would put in front of

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me how I ended up becoming an author and somebody who is on TV doing political commentary.

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And those are all dreams that I really had never had.

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I never had dreams about writing a book.

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And I did dream about being on TV as maybe like a news anchor or something, but that

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dream died a long time ago when high-def television came into reality and I knew that anyone over

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the age of 35 probably couldn't cut it.

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But here I am at 46 and I have a whole new career in the media as well as a political

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commentator.

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So who knows, I just follow wherever God leads and I'm always just on the lookout for where

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he's taking me next.

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I feel like you're my soul sister because I laugh at all these years.

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I've done so many things and I always thought I'd be in the entertainment industry, which

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I am a little bit, but I never thought I would be a social commentator.

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And I just think of some of the things I've done over just the last year and a half,

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I hijacked my schedule, but I know for you personally, because you've always been called

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to be a voice and you've done these careers that are like, you've helped shape the way

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people think about certain things.

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You've been in politics, but now being a political commentator, I'm going to hold up your book

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for those of you who are watching visually.

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It's this new book coming up.

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We're not going to talk a lot about the book till the end.

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It's called Politics for People Who Hate Politics.

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Now I read this and I'm ordering them because I want to give them away.

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And so I'm going to figure this out for even next year just for even our partners and stuff

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because there's things that you say, again, you're not on one side or the other as much

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as you are just for the whole vision of understanding why we shouldn't get into politics.

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There's things that you say that I've never heard said before.

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I'm like, I would literally, we didn't go, say it again.

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Like, I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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But talk about this because one of the things you're doing right now, you're actively, you're

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in Washington, D.C. and you have a vision to give this to every member of Congress.

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Like you want people who are already politicians to have this because it really does kind of

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restructure and rewire.

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Talk to us about when you said you don't want to write books and you wrote one that's probably

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one of the most intense kind of subjects you could tackle as a Christian.

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Yeah.

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So first of all, I just want to say you're an amazing social commentator.

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I listen to you all the time and it's crazy how often I'm out on a run and I listen to

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you always.

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Oh, I'm so pleased to hear that.

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I'm going to be on a run.

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When I'm on a run, you guys on a run, I am.

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And I'll have to stop and take notes because the things that you said, whether you realize

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or not, Bob and Sean, they shape the thinking that undergirds the themes of this book in

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a million ways.

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And so I just want to thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and just really that perspective

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of how much God loves us and how our identity is so rooted in him.

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And it doesn't matter what sphere of influence your listeners are in or any of us are in.

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If we are secure in that, we can do pretty much anything to be his voice and impact culture

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in any way.

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So I just want to thank you so much for what you do.

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So I wrote this book because I really felt like, first of all, I didn't want to write

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the book.

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I didn't really feel like I wanted to write the book, to be honest.

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I had written another book that was more of a chronicle of sort of my life story and how

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much a revelation of how God loved me.

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As a daughter of immigrants, I really have struggled over the course of my life to understand

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where I fit in.

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And that's true, whether it's career wise or just as an American, where do I fit into

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this whole incredible mix of people that make up this country?

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And when I came to writing about politics, I didn't want to do it because I just was

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so sick and tired of politics.

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Like when you look at the title of my book that accurately reflects how I felt when I

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wrote.

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Which is perfect.

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Yeah.

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I mean, politics for people who hate politics.

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I mean, I was so tired and I wrote this beginning in 2020.

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So you guys, everybody was sick of politics in 2020.

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Even if you were consumed by it, we were all upset by one thing or another.

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And I was not immune to that, even as a believer.

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And so I think I wrote it because I felt like everything that I was seeing about politics

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as usual was being done wrong.

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I felt like the people that I love the most, my church family, my family in Christ, didn't

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really have a guide or an understanding of how to navigate or whether to engage in politics

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at all.

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And I felt like if there was anyone that could tell me how to express to them what needed

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to be done so they could be effective in shaping what our nation would be about and what we

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stood for, it would be the Holy Spirit.

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I really needed Jesus and the Holy Spirit to just sit with me and help me write this

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book that really the Lord said, put on blinders.

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Don't read anything that anyone has written about this topic.

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That is not your message.

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I'm going to give you the message.

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And I literally feel like I had that vision.

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I felt like a racehorse behind a gate and I was ready to go and I would sit down and

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I would just put my fingers on the keyboard and the Lord would just start telling me

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what to write.

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And it was incredible because I thought nobody would read it.

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And so did every publisher I set my proposal to.

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My agent would feel so bad and I'm not, I don't really get too down on rejection.

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I ran for Congress.

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So you get used to hearing no and it's okay.

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But after like a lot of them, you kind of like, well, maybe God, you know, maybe we

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need to re-jig this book a little bit.

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Maybe Satan was right.

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No one wants to read this book.

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Thankfully, my agent didn't believe the lies and neither did I.

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And we found an incredible publisher, but everybody wanted me to do what all the publishers

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wanted me to do.

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What the world was really doing.

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And what the church was doing, which was picking a side.

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Now let me be really clear about this.

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I am as partisan as they come.

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I'm a lifelong Republican.

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I'm a conservative commentator in the news.

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So I have no problems with having an allegiance to a perspective or belief system.

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I have, I'm okay with it.

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I'm a creature of Washington, DC.

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What I have a problem with is when we allow that identity to supersede our identity in

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Christ, commitment to kingdom principles, overpartisan agendas, all of us have different

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identities that we assume over the course of our lives.

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All of that is great.

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It's part of what makes us so interesting and complimentary as the full body of Christ.

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But when we allow our identity to be superseded by anything, it shapes the way we treat each

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other in a way that is not reflective of the love of God.

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And that is really what this book is all about.

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It's about how do we engage as believers?

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And even if you're not a believer and you're listening, it's not, it's based on biblical

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principles, but whether you believe the scripture that explains and justifies these principles

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or not, living by these principles, speaking the truth and love, engaging with humility,

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being curious about why people believe other things, there's a whole plethora of principles

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in the book.

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It will literally teach you how to engage in a way that basically spells out by the subtitle

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is how to engage without losing your friends or selling your soul.

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Wow.

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Well, Denise, this book is amazing, but I want to go backwards a little bit because

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you graduated, you have a law degree, you've had businesses, you've run for Congress, you've

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had all these highs and lows and help our listeners and viewers to understand where

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you're coming from and how God brought you to this point in your life.

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I wish I could give a formula that anyone could follow and they could end up where I

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am today.

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Honestly, Bob and you and Lauren have been with me through some of the lowest parts of

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my life and you've walked me through that and I'm so grateful for it.

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I always just felt like I said in the beginning that nothing, I felt like the story with Goldilocks

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and the three bears, it was like nothing quite fit.

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Everything was too big, too wrong, too this, too that and it was like I could never quite

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fit into anything and nothing felt like it resonated with my spirit.

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But what I realized was that going to law school, while I didn't really want to be

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a practicing attorney once I started being an attorney, going to law school helped me

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become a much clearer thinker, a better communicator and a better writer.

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Being in politics helped me to understand the ways of the world and why our federal government

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works the way that it does and why it doesn't work when it doesn't work.

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Being specifically on the political side of things helped me to understand human nature

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better and also give me insight into what I think will help our nation become, maintain

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its position as the leader of the free world to the benefit of all humanity.

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So, while I didn't want to stay in politics as a career and I didn't want to stay in

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the law as a career and I certainly didn't want to stay in really any business that I've

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ever started or run as a career, I feel like each of those skill sets helped create a broader

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understanding of the world and the role that I'm in now, which is really in the media world

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and explaining things from a much more well-rounded perspective.

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I really had nothing to say before now that was interesting or insightful or wise even

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and I feel like the Lord has given me so many experiences and has put so many years under

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my belt that when I step into any arena, I feel like the Lord gives me things to say

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that are based on experience and his wisdom.

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Well, I think it was so interesting because I'm a lot of the CBN news anchors and some

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of the Christian anchors at Center Point News on TBN.

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And so there's a lot of Christians who've come into this place who've come out of just

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mainstream journalism, mainstream commentary and they're also serving in an in-between

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place which is like to the general Christian audience as well.

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And then I'm friends with people who are anchors who aren't in the Christian audience as well

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and might be on, you know, they might be on the Daily Wire or they might be on Blaze Media

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or these different places.

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And it's so beautiful right now because this is the first generation where people are emerging

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as voices to help navigate and we need this.

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I'm thinking about going into 2024.

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We're about to go into probably the worst time in politics and modern history as far

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as the polarization is so strong.

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The racial dynamics are so strong that the narratives are so built.

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They're so contrived.

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There's so much mockingbird media that just repeats on both sides, the narrative over

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and over and over.

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And so people can't find the middle ground in so many times.

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And then here you are getting launched into this season of your life to be a voice in

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the midst of that and also come from a Christian foundation, but you're out there in the mainstream.

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You're out there like all over the place.

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Talk about like just as you've been deployed more and more into this career of being a

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political commentator.

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What have you seen God do in the midst of this?

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Because I mean, you have to have him as your incentive.

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I've watched your life.

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So what makes it worth it?

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What's making it like, oh, yes, this is it.

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So every time I go on TV, every single time, I pray, Lord, just speak truth and hope and

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life over the audience because sometimes just like any person, I hope maybe I'm just more

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wayward than most, but I get caught up and want it.

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The lawyer in me comes out like rage and I just want to win.

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I want to go for the guttural.

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I want to land my point and sound so clever at the expense of the person I disagree with.

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And what the Lord has really checked my spirit about is what is your real purpose for being

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on TV?

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Why do they call you?

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Why have I put you in this position?

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It's to speak life and hope and truth in love.

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And so when I go on, I'm very cognizant of the fact that people know I'm a believer.

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I'm not quoting scripture every time.

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I mean, that'd be so weird if I did.

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It wouldn't be honoring to the culture that I stepped into.

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But what I do is I speak from the truth of who I am and what shapes me and when it's

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appropriate, I'll say, hey, you know, I'll drop in something kind of thinly veiled.

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Sometimes I'll quote scripture.

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Nobody has a problem with it.

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It's really more about the spirit in which you do it.

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And so I had this specific experience where on one of the first days I was a commentator

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when I was still just trying to figure out what I was doing.

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The producer told me right before I went on, he said, hey, we're switching out the e-block,

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the last segment of the show.

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And he said, we're going to actually throw a question to you about the anti LGBTQ laws

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that have passed all over the country.

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Are you ready for that?

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I was like, are you kidding me?

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You just told me that as I'm going on TV.

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I start sweating.

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I get this all the time.

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Yeah, I am not glowing.

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I'm like, I haven't even researched that.

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I don't even know what states the law is in.

287
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I like, thanks a lot.

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So all the whole show, I have no idea if I sounded like a babbling idiot or not probably

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because I was so nervous and focused on that last block, the e-block in the show.

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And so I was like, Lord Jesus, every second Lord Jesus, I was thinking, help me to say

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what you want me to say on national TV lives.

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And when it came to me, I kind of blacked out.

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This is, this is how I know God is the one that's asking me because I don't remember what

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I said, but when I finished, I looked at the other panelists and in between commercial

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breaks, what I heard from one of them was Denise, that was the most beautiful thing.

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There was like this audible sigh and people like, well, aren't you nice?

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Isn't that lovely?

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And he said to me on the commercial break, there was a Democrat that was sitting that

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I usually spar with all the time.

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And he said, you know, my daughter is actually in the LGBTQ community and I've never heard

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anyone from your side.

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They, I'll talk like that in a way that honors her.

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And so while I stood for what I believed in, I said, you know, we really need to talk about

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how we engage with people on this issue and make sure that it's spoken in respect and

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love and honor.

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And I don't really remember much more of what I said, but whatever it was, it wasn't so

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much maybe the words that I said, it was just the presence of God in me that was able to

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shift hearts and change the conversation from one of sharp elbows and you're wrong and I'm

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right to speaking identity and life into those that were listening.

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Yeah, Denise, and I think as I've watched you, you said spar with, spar with him.

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Yeah.

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But you can tell that you've built a relationship with him and that there's mutual respect.

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And so when I watch you, it is maybe it's sparring, maybe it's fine, but it's, it's basically

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you've built a relationship with someone and it's, it's actually what your book stands

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for.

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I try to, you're on national TV, you're on a panel and you're, you have a point counterpoint,

318
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but it's not, it's, it's not negative.

319
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It's not hateful.

320
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And so, so talk about how you've built the relationship.

321
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:30,360
Thank you Bob.

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I'm glad that I'm the crowd.

323
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:32,840
You're welcome.

324
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,240
Well, and tell your, and tell our listeners where they can see you want to, but tell us

325
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how you've built relationships in this, what is a toxic environment in order and you're

326
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having fun here.

327
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,360
Well, first of all, I'm on the hill on news nation news nation is a relatively new cable

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news network that is honestly, it's the fastest growing one in America because it's the newest,

329
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but also they're doing incredible things.

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You know, I, I am really fortunate to work with an incredible crew there.

331
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I've hired specifically for diversity of opinion and thought, which is really rare in the media.

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When you go to certain, you know, most cable news networks have their identities pretty

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much established or right or left and they hire for their perspectives.

334
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The intention of this show and the executive producer who I am so fond of is that he wanted

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to hire for diversity of opinion and that's reflected throughout the set.

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And I, when you think of all what DEI means now and mainstream and in businesses, diversity,

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equity and inclusion, oftentimes it excludes those who represent the center and the center

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right.

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And in this case, our executive producer said, we need a complete diversity, an actual diversity

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of opinion.

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And so they hired that way.

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And regardless of where we stand, if I'm wearing my Israel America pin and there's somebody

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wearing a Palestinian pen on the other side or, you know, standing for that cause, when

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we are together, we're on one team and we're there to make this show successful.

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And there's no personal animosity.

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And I think that you're right.

347
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It comes from relationship Bob.

348
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At the end of the day, we are all relational beings.

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And when we look at somebody, they know whether we're interested in who they are or whether

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we're just interested in using them as a platform to prove how great we are.

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We're speaking of America.

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00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,320
It sounds like, I mean, we should be able to do what your show is doing in America right

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now.

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And because of, I really think there's a lot of, I just gonna be, I don't want to go too

355
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much into this, but the fatherlessness that's in America and the parentlessness is creating

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where people are fighting over the miners, not the majors.

357
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And I love that you're on a show where it's like, again, it's in the media world.

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It's in the news media world.

359
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And you're able to address some things.

360
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Cause when you deal with like what we're about to deal with coming up into the election cycle,

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I'm sure on the right, they're going to be talking terrible about China and like your

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parents or immigrants from China.

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So it's like, they're going to be talking about things that you're like a Republican,

364
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but you also have a different perspective.

365
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But we need to hear on it and on the left, they're going to be talking about, you know,

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abortion all the time.

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It's going to be, it's very, very polarizing when we go into the election cycle.

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So it's so encouraging that you're able to be able to bring up some things from a perspective,

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both from who you are uniquely from all these diverse backgrounds, but also how you represent

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Christ.

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And I think that that's a very rare thing.

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I think there's probably other people are watching you're like, I want to represent you

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Jesus that way and think differently than I do now.

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This is one of the reasons why I love having the shows because people can watch you and

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00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,200
go, wait a minute, if Denise is doing it that way, have I asked that question of God, what

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do you want me to do here?

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How, how will you lead me?

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Are my following the breadcrumbs?

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All of your language is so profound.

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All of the ways that you're describing is very coaching, I think for our audience.

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I'm so encouraged by it.

382
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:40,920
Talk about the actual, you're, you're active.

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00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,200
We got you on the day you're doing your book launch, which is really cool.

384
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,680
And so talk about the book that you've written and what you're hoping.

385
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,520
Oh, we've talked a little bit about the story behind it, but like talk about the actual

386
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:52,520
book.

387
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:53,520
What is it about?

388
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,560
What are you hoping this accomplishes this year?

389
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,240
Well, thank you for that soft pitch.

390
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,440
No, I'm not gonna knock it out.

391
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:02,440
Hopefully.

392
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:10,360
Um, so the book is, it's just such, um, an amalgamation of all the things that I've done wrong in

393
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:12,800
politics for the last 20 plus years.

394
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,080
That's the starting point of it.

395
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,680
It's a position of humility because when I come to Washington, actually Senator Tim

396
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,840
Scott, who wrote the four word was the first person to actually ever tell me this.

397
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And I respect him so much that I've given him, you know, carte blanche to correct me

398
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and, and shape me in a way that, that aligns with God.

399
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,680
He's like the first person to say you're really off track to these when I'm here.

400
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:35,680
Wow.

401
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,080
And I remember one time he said, you know, when you come to Washington, cause he knows

402
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,920
me outside of Washington, he says, there's like this, you just shift, you get really

403
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,000
competitive, you get weird.

404
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,040
It's like, um, it's just not you.

405
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,120
And you get really selfishly ambitious.

406
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:50,520
He's like, I can see it in your eyes.

407
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,360
I can see it when you walk into a room.

408
00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:57,160
And this is like probably 2017, 2016 when I was running for Congress and I was considering

409
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:58,720
whether to run again.

410
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,160
And I was still in that kill mode of like, I want to go, I'm going to win.

411
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,240
I want to be in Congress.

412
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,280
And, and he was like, I don't really think that, that that's really what you were meant

413
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to do is to actually be there.

414
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,920
He actually told me once he said, I feel like you're trying to hold a flashlight and God's

415
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,160
trying to give you a floodlight.

416
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:20,280
You're supposed to have a lot more than the people in your district.

417
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,200
He's very prophetic.

418
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:23,720
But that's stung the part.

419
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,320
I don't really remember that part as much as I did the part of like, who do you become

420
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,960
when you come to Washington?

421
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,120
And so you can read about who I became when I came to Washington because it's all in

422
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:34,120
my book.

423
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:38,120
It's like a tell-all of all the ways that as a Christian who'd been a Christian since

424
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:45,280
she was 15 years old, I would ignore the central tenant of our faith was just to love people.

425
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:46,880
I came here to win.

426
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:52,080
I came here to support a president, to change people's minds, to fight for an agenda, to

427
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,880
have a fight feeling.

428
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,440
And I would always justify my end, my means by the ends.

429
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,960
I would say, well, I'm fighting for the Lord and these principles.

430
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,000
And so, you know, isn't that, isn't that being loving?

431
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,520
I always confused speaking the truth with speaking the truth and love.

432
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:16,760
There's no such thing as love apart from truth, but you can definitely, and I'm the

433
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,320
best example of it, speak truth without love.

434
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:25,160
And that's why Jesus is so clear on the matter.

435
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,080
He says, you have to speak the truth and love.

436
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,560
And let me tell you this too, because I've heard this so many times from believers.

437
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,960
It just drives me crazy.

438
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,320
And these people are well-intentioned.

439
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,240
They just haven't spent as much time writing and thinking about it as I have.

440
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,480
So sometimes people will say, well, you know, the truth is truth and that's love and deal

441
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,160
with it, right?

442
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,720
And I said, actually, no, love is clearly defined in scripture.

443
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,040
If you've ever been to a wedding, whether you've ever cracked open a Bible or not, you

444
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:57,880
read 1 Corinthians 13 somewhere in that, you know, run down on the wedding and God is clear

445
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:58,880
as to what love is.

446
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,120
He doesn't leave that to our imagination.

447
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:03,880
He says, love is patient, love is kind.

448
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,280
And it goes on and on and on.

449
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,640
People when people feel loved, you're loving when people feel loved.

450
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,800
It's really, really easy to know whether people are speaking the truth and love it.

451
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,080
And so that was really one of the main themes in my book that I wanted people to know is

452
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:23,720
that I still have to crack my book open and remind myself of who I want to be and who

453
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,600
Jesus calls us to me when I engage.

454
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:31,360
I can lose my mind too all the time on TV even.

455
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:35,560
And I have to remember that the first principle was that Jesus loves this person sitting across

456
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,680
from me regardless of what they believe.

457
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,800
And my job is stand up as a representative of his as an ambassador of heaven and change

458
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,640
the atmosphere and bring life and hope and truth and love into that conversation in equal

459
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,640
parts.

460
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,360
Oh Denise, that's so good.

461
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:52,360
Okay.

462
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:55,400
How do people get ahold of you and how do people get ahold of your book?

463
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:56,400
Okay.

464
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:57,680
You can get ahold of me.

465
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:58,680
Thank you, Sean.

466
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,680
You're like, you know, white.

467
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:01,680
I love it.

468
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,600
Actually, it's an easy book I've ever endorsed for real.

469
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:05,600
I want to say that.

470
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,120
It's, I mean, it literally is the easiest book I've ever endorsed.

471
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:10,120
I was like, I need my parents to read this.

472
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:11,880
Like I need people to read this.

473
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,080
You have no idea.

474
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,280
Like coming from you, that means so much more to me.

475
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,040
It's funny how like the different people that I asked for endorsements, I didn't ask a lot.

476
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,320
There weren't many people that I cared about or had, was that emotionally invested in wanting

477
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:25,320
it from.

478
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,920
And when you, when you said yes, it just really moved me deeply.

479
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:30,920
So thank you, Sean.

480
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,920
It means just I read it all on one sitting like really fast.

481
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,240
Not because I was trying to glaze through it, but I was like, Oh, finally, someone's

482
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,240
saying that.

483
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:39,240
Oh, that's how you say that.

484
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,920
Oh, it actually coached me on language.

485
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,360
Like so, I'm being honest.

486
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,040
So sorry, let's get back to how I really appreciate that so much.

487
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,760
It's going to cost a lot of people.

488
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,120
I'm still trying to figure out how to look like, what does it look like to love in spheres

489
00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:53,120
that are hard?

490
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,600
And you just, you did it so well through this book.

491
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:56,600
It really is a manual.

492
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:57,600
So keep going.

493
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,840
Well, and you know what, if you take those principles and you apply them to any divisive

494
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,480
sphere of influence, whether you're in a business negotiation, got lawyers all over,

495
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,040
whatever the situation is that you're stepping into any sphere of influence education, media,

496
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,480
you name it, any of the seven or more.

497
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,920
If you apply those principles at the end of the day, this is about being a better disciple

498
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:16,920
of Christ.

499
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,680
It's not about anything else.

500
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,760
It just politics just happens to be the medium.

501
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,840
And so you can find my book of anywhere books are sold.

502
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,720
My personal website is Denise Grace Gibson.com.

503
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,600
It's last name's a little tricky.

504
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:33,600
It's Welsh.

505
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,560
It's G-I-T as in Tom, S-H-A-M as in married.com.

506
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,280
And then I'm on Instagram and socials and all of that fun stuff.

507
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,040
You guys can find me pretty easily, but yeah, it's a lot of fun.

508
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,480
And I'm so grateful to you guys for caring about the book.

509
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,600
You never know who's going to read your book if you're the only one that thinks, wow, like

510
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:51,600
that was pretty profound.

511
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:56,480
Thank you, Jesus for writing this through me, but I'm glad that it resonates with other

512
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,560
people as well because it took a long time to write.

513
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,160
Denise, thank you so much for being with us again.

514
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,640
Yes, thank you for having me again.

515
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,560
Oh, we're just so honored.

516
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,160
And up next, we have final thoughts with Sean and Bob.

517
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,400
I'm Sean Boles and I'm going to invite you to our Spiritual Growth Academy online where

518
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,840
you can attend a four week class or an event every month.

519
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,920
Plus our back catalog is available to you as well on spiritual gifts, especially hearing

520
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,720
God's voice and also a deeper connection to the Holy Spirit and how to walk with him

521
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,200
in real ways in the days we're living in right now.

522
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,800
Come join us at spiritual growth Academy by going to bowlsministries.com and clicking on

523
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,400
the Academy button.

524
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:40,400
Welcome back.

525
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,440
Well, Denise is always an amazing interview and I just love where God has taken her and

526
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,720
how impacted she is by this work.

527
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,000
And it feels like she's speaking about her life's message right now.

528
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:58,280
Yeah, you know, I feel like back in the eighties, we had like Bob Robertson and his whole crew

529
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:03,320
kind of made it safe for Christians to go into media, go into being journalists and commentators

530
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:04,880
and those kinds of things.

531
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,120
But there hasn't been millions of people deployed into the media.

532
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,120
It's been maybe thousands as far as Christians who really believe that God's sending them

533
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:13,200
to do this.

534
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,600
And the fact that her whole career is culminated right now to do that.

535
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,840
It's encouraging because we're seeing people God raise up a media army and we need that

536
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,600
because one of the things that Christians are called to do is be a voice for God about

537
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,520
what he's doing in the world.

538
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,520
And if we don't have that voice, then popular media will not meet those needs or drive that

539
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:31,520
narrative the right way.

540
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,480
So I'm so grateful for her being there, but on top of that, writing a book she didn't

541
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,480
want to write.

542
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:37,480
I'm just being obedient.

543
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:38,720
I mean, even I know about that.

544
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,280
We do a lot of things we would have never asked God for.

545
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,280
Yeah.

546
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,280
Yeah.

547
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,840
And she's so, she's so happy about it.

548
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:52,160
And I love how she in the interview drew a kind of a line through her career and said

549
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:57,120
she couldn't figure out, she didn't use these words, how the dots were connected, but from

550
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:04,560
law school to public affairs, to being a consultant and all the things that to running

551
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:10,800
for a candidate to being involved in politics has brought her to this and all the things

552
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:11,800
that she learned.

553
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:17,400
I love how she was able to look back on that and realize that God always had a plan for

554
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:18,400
her.

555
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,560
That's one of the things that Sean, you and I have to always remember and our listeners

556
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,440
and viewers have to remember is God has a plan.

557
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,400
No matter where you think you are, he's got a plan and you're on the path.

558
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,560
And I have a prophetic sense as you're saying that just that some of you who are, you know,

559
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,840
with us today as our, our friends who are, you know, been on the journey unexplained

560
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,920
marketplace for a while, I have a prophetic sense that there's a culmination for many of

561
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:41,920
you.

562
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,920
And so when you're listening to something inside of you, it's like, wow, I feel like

563
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,120
I'm about to understand all the different types of eclectic things that God's led me

564
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:48,120
into.

565
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,240
And when God leads you, he always makes sense of that.

566
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:56,160
And he brings skill sets and tools and relationships from past lives that we've lived here on the

567
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,080
earth, meaning like the past career choices we made, the school we went to, the church

568
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,320
we were in 15 years ago, whatever it is, and they're going to culminate.

569
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,320
So I want to really prophesy that over your role, just pray that for you, that God would

570
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,440
culminate those opportunities, just like Denise had that culmination, that you're going to

571
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,680
have a culmination and many things are going to make sense for why you've been led by God.

572
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:17,680
You didn't make the choice.

573
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,840
You followed him and said yes to his choice who's making for you and he's going to reward

574
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:22,840
you for that.

575
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,280
Well, I thank you so much, Bob.

576
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,080
And I love to interact with you guys.

577
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,640
We love the feedback you're giving us, the reviews you're giving us and the sharing you're

578
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,240
doing of these episodes.

579
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,120
I want to encourage you to keep doing that.

580
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,960
Keep subscribed to our podcast.

581
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:35,960
We love to hear from you.

582
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,240
You can write info at bullsministries.com and give us a testimony of what God's doing

583
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:40,240
in your career.

584
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:45,320
And we love to feature even different ones of our audience members and people who've been

585
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:46,400
following us.

586
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,840
We love to feature you at times in different media that we do as well.

587
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,680
So we'd love to hear those test-ways and we will see you next time.

588
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,320
Thanks for exploring what God is doing in the marketplace with us.

589
00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:00,040
We have amazing resources for you at our website with free videos, taking online classes at

590
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,760
our online school, Spiritual Growth Academy, or get one of our books, including the one

591
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,520
Bob and I authored together, wired to hear.

592
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,680
We have lots of ways to connect with you.

593
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,320
Come visit us on social media.

594
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,840
Just look for at Sean Bowles or at Bob Hasson or visit bullsministries.com.

595
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,160
This show is made possible by listeners just like you.

596
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,200
Become a partner or donate now to become part of our team.

597
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,440
If you enjoyed today's episode, share it on your socials or help us review it on the

598
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,240
podcast server you found us on.

599
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:46,800
See you next time.