(177) “Ordinarily Walking in the Supernatural” with Michael and Gordona Van Vlymen

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,360
regardless of what miraculous event, what's going on, how fun it is, any of that takes a second

2
00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:14,880
place to the fact that the things that we do we must do for the glory of God, for His Kingdom,

3
00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,120
and at His direction. We only do those things that we see the Father do.

4
00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:34,160
God promises in Joel 2.28 to pour out His Spirit on all humanity. Welcome to Global Outpouring,

5
00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:39,120
where we contend for that promise outpouring, we equip for that outpouring,

6
00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,440
so that we may engage in that very outpouring. I'm Philip Buss.

7
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:49,040
And I'm Sharon Buss. Welcome to the podcast today. We have with us some dear friends

8
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:54,560
Michael and Gordana van Vleimen. And Michael has been with us before on our podcast a couple of

9
00:00:54,560 --> 00:01:00,240
times, and Gordana is with us for the first time. And they are going to tell us some of their

10
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:14,800
testimonies of how they are ordinarily walking the supernatural. Welcome to the podcast today. We are

11
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:22,240
so glad that you are with us. You are going to really enjoy this podcast. These people that are

12
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:28,160
with us are just, well, they're just very, very special to us and to the Lord, and they're going

13
00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:34,240
to be special to you too because of how God is going to use them in your life to help you get a

14
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:41,360
fresh vision and hope for what God wants to do with you as an individual. But before we get started,

15
00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:48,400
I'd like to encourage you to go to our website, globaloutpouring.net, and be sure that if you

16
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:55,280
haven't already done so, that you will subscribe to our newsletter, our email lists, and so that we

17
00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:01,200
can stay in touch with you and keep you up to date on what we're doing and what God is doing in this

18
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:09,280
ministry. And you can also get connected with us for how we are contending in prayer for the things

19
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:14,800
of God and for him to pour out his Spirit on all humanity and get involved with the way that we're

20
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:22,080
equipping people and all of our Facebook page and our YouTube channel. So we want you to get

21
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,720
better connected. We want to get to know you better too. So if you want to send us some feedback,

22
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:33,600
you can write to feedback at globaloutpouring.org or you can fill out the little feedback form

23
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:42,320
on globaloutpouring.net. So Michael and Gordana van Vleimen, thank you so much for joining us today.

24
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,720
Thank you for having us here. We're blessed. Thank you. It's an honor to be here with you.

25
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:53,040
Well, you've just been with us teaching in the School of the Supernatural Translation by Faith

26
00:02:53,040 --> 00:03:01,920
with Dr. Bruce Allen and his wife Reshma. And we've had such a glorious time. Wow, it was glorious.

27
00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:08,880
And a lot of folks came in and got trained in lots of things of the Spirit and learning how

28
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:16,560
to walk in the Spirit and how to discern what's right and what's biblical and what's real from

29
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:24,160
what isn't. And wow, you've walked in a whole lot of that stuff yourselves. But I'd like to go back

30
00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:33,440
and get your backstory a little bit. So how did you grow up? Well, yeah, so I grew up a great

31
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:39,200
distance from where we are right now. That's for sure. The church that I grew up in, we didn't

32
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:45,920
believe God did miracles anymore. We were taught, well, for instance, when I first learned about

33
00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:52,880
Jesus and asked Jesus to come into my heart as a five-year-old, I was excited because our Sunday

34
00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:59,680
school teacher told us about David and Goliath, Daniel in the lion's den, angels coming to visit

35
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:08,480
the believers. And just this life just seemed so adventurous that I was excited. So I would tell

36
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:16,720
all the kids at school about Jesus. But in our church, eventually they gave me the bad news when

37
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:23,280
I was about eight that, oh, I'm sorry, you can't have that kind of life. God doesn't do those things

38
00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:32,000
anymore. No miracles, no angels, no prophets, no joy. Just basically everything you read about in

39
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:37,840
the Bible was more or less a history lesson, although they did teach us that God is real.

40
00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,880
But it seemed like a very, it seemed like a bait and switch to me.

41
00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:50,000
So then what happened in your heart? Well, in my heart, I just lost all joy to believe that I could

42
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:56,400
have a relationship with God because my idea of relationship was based on the stories I had been

43
00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,520
told. This is what God has done. This is what God has done. And I thought, great, I'd like to be a

44
00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:08,800
part of that. But when they said, you can no longer be a part, all of the joy of the journey was, was

45
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:15,120
like taken, stolen away from me in that moment. And so I just quit telling the kids about Jesus.

46
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:21,040
If I thought, if I can't really be a part of it, then why would I be excited about it?

47
00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:28,880
Yeah. So I just kind of went, even though my dad was a pastor at the time, he was a pastor of a

48
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:36,560
dead church. So I just lost all joy towards the things of God and just kind of became like a

49
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:48,880
regular kid that had to go to church a few times a week. It was a bad situation because I think back

50
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:53,840
on that and I think if they had encouraged me in my walk with the Lord, how things would be

51
00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:58,960
different. But I know God lays things out for a reason and he makes all things to work together

52
00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:05,920
for good. Right. So he actually gave you a foundation for the church.

53
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:11,920
That would help you to help people that have that kind of foundation.

54
00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:18,880
That's yes, that's absolutely true. There's so many people that they start that way that now I

55
00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:24,960
have that foundation of how to get over that and a testimony similar to so many people.

56
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,880
So it has worked out pretty well. Yeah. So, so Gordana, how about you? What,

57
00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,760
what was your life like as a child? You grew up in Macedonia.

58
00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:40,240
I grew up in Macedonia, Eastern Orthodox and I went to church literally probably four or five

59
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,360
times a day. Four or five times a day. Yes.

60
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,680
So what did you do in church four or five times a day?

61
00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,080
I would go in church and I would go in there and just pray whatever the need before going to school.

62
00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:55,120
I would always go if I knew that we had a test or something. You had a break, you go back,

63
00:06:55,120 --> 00:07:01,280
you go to church or after, after school, you, when you stop, you went out to the store and you go to

64
00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:08,080
church again. That was me. It just literally, I knew they would help me. I would go in there and

65
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:16,880
pray to God, but keep it in mind, even though we went to church, my mom brought us up to fear God.

66
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:25,120
Also took us to church. We did all the rituals, the fasting, the whatever you had to do to go to

67
00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:32,240
church, but I had no knowledge. I knew nothing about the Trinity, even though the icons are there,

68
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:37,920
you know, nobody, we didn't have a Bible. So I wasn't brought up with the Bible. The things that

69
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:44,000
I did, whatever the priest would tell my mom or whatever tradition she had to follow, we did the

70
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:52,320
same thing. So I never opened the Bible to literally till I married with Mike. So going to church and

71
00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:57,680
I knew there was a God that he was up there somewhere, but that's all I knew. Did you love

72
00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:04,560
him? Yes, I loved him, but I also fear them if I did something wrong and I always knew that he would

73
00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:11,760
help me. So even though a lot of the people, pretty much everyone prays to Mary or the icons,

74
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,480
they have different saints. Okay. So what, explain what's an icon? Cause a lot of people don't know

75
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:22,960
that. Literally now being born again, I look back and I see they display the whole Bible, the Old

76
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:28,640
Testament and New Testament is through the icons. It's pictures, right? It's a picture or they have

77
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:34,320
a lot of the paintings on the walls. Yeah. And wasn't that for illiterate people to be able to

78
00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:40,560
show the Bible stories? Literally, like I said, pretty much people, they did whatever the priest

79
00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:47,360
would tell them to do. Even though you have these icons that we're talking small, huge icons brought

80
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:56,240
from all over. I would go in there just to pray to God. I never prayed to any of the saints. So all I

81
00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:02,640
can say is God must have had his hand upon me. Yes, he did. He did. So a picture of a saint and an

82
00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:07,360
icon would have like a, some kind of a metal kind of thing around it. Is that typical? It depends.

83
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:16,160
You can just get a plain piece of wood, the icon, just a picture of the Lord or the last supper.

84
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,960
I think I saw one in the house that they had. And have a halo around many of the saints too.

85
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:29,040
Yes. Pretty much every saint you can think of from old to new and people, a lot of times they're

86
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:34,960
named after some of the saints and they usually have a celebration. We celebrate birthday a lot,

87
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:42,000
but they celebrate every name of a saint. So they literally, I mean, celebrating. So whatever day

88
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:49,920
you're born on that there was a saint for that day. Yes. Yes. My name has no meaning as far as

89
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:56,800
of a saint. My mom, my brother, the rest of them, but not mine. They named me after one of their

90
00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:02,400
friends there, Dr. Dinta's friend. So yeah. So then you came to America. How old were you

91
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:08,240
when you came to America? I was 15 when I came, spoke no English at all. Went to high school.

92
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:15,360
So there you could walk. So I went to church. That was my life. But here you had to drive

93
00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:23,040
and I didn't speak the language and going to school, even though after I learned to drive,

94
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:29,760
we didn't go to church, maybe just for Easter or Christmas. That was it. So church was kind of like

95
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:36,400
in the back. I knew there was a God and I was at the hunger, but my life changed drastically.

96
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:42,320
When I got married, because I told the Lord, I said, I want to marry someone who knows you.

97
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:49,280
I had no idea what I was saying. I was someone who knows you, who loves you. So when I met Mike

98
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:55,120
and we got married and he kept talking about Jesus and I would say, you're crazy. I don't know what

99
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,880
you're talking about. I know God. He helped me because I didn't know the language helped me

100
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:06,240
finish high school, helped me go to college for hair. And thank God he never stopped.

101
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:12,240
He just kept talking about Jesus. Like keeping in mind, you know, the icons were there, but I never

102
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:20,720
ever heard anybody explain or tell me about it. One day, 1986 in our backyard, I remember after

103
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:27,120
Mike keep talking about Jesus, the Holy Spirit that just came upon me and gave me that revelation of

104
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:36,000
the Trinity. It's like a curtain was removed, the blindness off of my hearing, my understanding.

105
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:42,480
And I knew about the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. That's when the Holy Spirit became my

106
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:48,400
best friend. And I used to think that God, you know, you go to church and you fear, you go inside

107
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:53,120
the church, you know, like I never cursed none of that stuff, but you don't do anything bad,

108
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,840
you know, like smoking, drinking, none of that stuff, because she thought that God lived in a

109
00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:05,040
building. I never knew he lived inside of you. I didn't know that I was the temple. So when the

110
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:12,000
Holy Spirit showed me that I was the temple and he lived inside of me, oh my goodness gracious.

111
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:20,000
Yes. What a revelation. He became my everything, everything in my life changed forever, forever.

112
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,080
Wow. Yeah. Wow. So thank God for Mike.

113
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:33,760
Amen. So Mike, at some point you had to have had a shift from that unhappy boy that found out you

114
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,560
couldn't do things and God did something in your life to show you that he was real.

115
00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,960
That's true. That's true. I did come to that point. It wasn't at the first part of our marriage,

116
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:51,280
however, but I knew that even though I was told that God was not supernatural anymore,

117
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:59,520
I knew that that was the truth, that he existed. So I knew that Jesus died for our sins. I knew that

118
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:06,800
even though I was told that God doesn't do the miraculous anymore. So when I was talking to

119
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:13,520
Gordonna during this period, I knew that she had a fear of God, that she loved God, but I wanted her

120
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:19,200
to realize that there was more about having a relationship with Jesus. That's why I kept

121
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:25,600
talking to her about Jesus. I wanted her to get it. I believe the Holy Spirit, like she said,

122
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:31,600
the Holy Spirit gave revelation. I mean, I kept talking about it, but it's not like I was going

123
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:38,400
to talk her into it. God had to give the revelation. Yeah. So you were already back with God when you

124
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:45,200
met Gordonna? I wouldn't call it back with God at that point. Oh, okay. What's the timeline here?

125
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:51,360
Well, this was probably when we were in our early 20s, or around 24, 25 years old,

126
00:13:52,240 --> 00:14:01,200
when we connected and when we got married in 1986. So I knew about God. My father was a preacher.

127
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:08,320
We had been a missionary family. So I knew the reality of all of that. And I wanted her to know

128
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:14,720
that because I knew that you had to be born again. Okay. Not just know about God, but you had to be

129
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:21,280
born again. That's why I kept talking to her about it. But I still had a lot of problems because I

130
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:30,400
didn't really follow God because I was told years before, God doesn't do miracles. You can't be

131
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:38,080
like a David or an Elijah or an Enoch or any of those Bible heroes, Thomas or Philip. You can't

132
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:45,440
be like those guys. So I really didn't pursue God. I didn't want to just have a religious life.

133
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:55,920
It just seemed just very lame to me. And so what happened was because I wasn't seeking God,

134
00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,960
and I was just kind of in the world going through the motions, maybe going to church once in a while,

135
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:10,880
my mind was captivated by the enemy. And so as I began to think about sinful things, I could not

136
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:19,440
keep those sinful thoughts at bay. So it just, it was overwhelming to me that this could even happen.

137
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,040
I'm thinking, I don't want to think these thoughts. I don't want to think these thoughts,

138
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,800
I don't want to think these thoughts, but they would come anyway. And there was nothing I could

139
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:35,760
do about it. I knew I couldn't pray because God doesn't do miracles today. Oh no. Yeah. So that

140
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:42,800
left me in a bad spot. I should say. I got to the point where I thought, I had this voice telling me,

141
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,040
there is no hope. You should end your life. There is no hope. You should end your life.

142
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:52,800
And I'm thinking, well, you know, that makes sense. There is no hope. God doesn't do miracles.

143
00:15:53,440 --> 00:16:00,640
But I thought on the off chance that he does, I'm going to ask him anyway. And so I said,

144
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:06,640
God, if you're real, because I hadn't seen the reality of God, that I was told he doesn't do

145
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:13,040
anything anymore. So I hadn't seen his power or his hand move in the lives of people around me.

146
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:20,480
So I said, God, if you're real, send an angel or a prophet or do something to rescue me.

147
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:28,400
And I prayed that for three days. And on the morning of the third day, I was working at a

148
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:34,560
people's house, Christian family's house, when they had a guest that drove up from Georgia.

149
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:40,000
The Lord had told a friend of theirs to drive up from Georgia to visit their friends in Indiana,

150
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:48,800
where I lived at the time. So he did. And through that meeting of that person is where I learned

151
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:57,200
that God still does everything he ever did. The Lord sent someone to pray for me. And when I met

152
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:05,920
this guy, I absolutely hated him. I mean, or something inside me hated him. But he just kept

153
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:12,160
talking to me and talking to me and talking to me about Jesus. And that really didn't do it for me.

154
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:18,480
But then he had four words of knowledge. And he told me exactly what was going on in my life.

155
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:25,600
And he said, right now, there's a spirit of suicide telling you, end it, there is no hope.

156
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:32,640
And that was exactly what I was hearing. And so he told me that the Lord told him to pray for me.

157
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:40,720
So he prayed for me three hours a day for a week. And, you know, I thought later I learned what kind

158
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:47,840
of love do people have that they're willing to pray for a stranger until they receive the breakthrough.

159
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:54,160
But I mean, I learned a lot just through that deliverance I received, because I realized

160
00:17:54,160 --> 00:18:01,440
the reality of spiritual things, the reality of the spirit realm, but the reality that believers

161
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:08,320
are meant to walk in a miraculous life. Hallelujah. So were you already married at that point?

162
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:14,560
We were. Yeah, we recently married. Yes. Okay. So Gordana, you saw a change.

163
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:21,440
I did, but I didn't know he was dealing with all this stuff. Okay. So he's going through that. And

164
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:27,760
at the same time, I'm like on fire for the Lord. I'm just in the Bible. Mike got me a Bible and

165
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:34,080
I'm just devouring the Word of God because I never had a Bible. So I'm reading all this stuff and I

166
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:40,160
just, I had the solution for the whole world, you know, I had my treasure, the prize is like,

167
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:47,760
we give, I give everything up. Wow. That my life started the new journey.

168
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:54,240
Can I share the first person that came? Because soon as I found out that he lives in me,

169
00:18:54,240 --> 00:19:00,400
that I'm his temple, things that was important, you know, it meant nothing to me. And I just

170
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,280
started, I would watch ministry. I watched Dr. Lester Summer, I've been here and they were my

171
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:11,040
spiritual fathers to help me to walk in because I didn't have anyone to, I didn't have a pastor,

172
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:16,720
you know, like you guys said, you were brought up with the Bible. I wasn't. So I started writing

173
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:23,680
checks to different ministry. I just give it all away and I never even had to ask Mike. And then

174
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:32,000
a guy comes and knock on the door. He gives me a scripture. He just, and I went open the door.

175
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,320
He gave me, and there was a piece of paper open that inside that said Philippians 419.

176
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:43,040
The first thing, and he left. I believe that was an angel because the guy didn't know me.

177
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:51,200
He didn't know what I was doing. Wow. So it was like a confirmation, but yes, that, that was my

178
00:19:51,200 --> 00:20:00,720
new beginning of life. And I just shared with everyone. I was, I was mocked by most of the

179
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:08,640
family, all the family and, um, France, you lose, you know, but if I get to do it again,

180
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:14,880
it's worth it because through that painful time of losing, you know, families and friends,

181
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:20,880
that's when I got to know him so well. Like I said, the Holy spirit became my best friend.

182
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:27,360
He would walk me through when I would read the word. If I had trouble, he would comfort me,

183
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:32,800
give me scriptures. He would tell me which person was coming, which demon was coming with them.

184
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:38,400
I would go to the store, anything that I needed help, you know, whatever I wanted to go, even to

185
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:46,960
stores to tell me keep best prices or where to find things. And, uh, it was, I, yes, I would do

186
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:54,320
it again. I will go back and do it again. Wow. So the, the two of you at some point began to

187
00:20:54,320 --> 00:21:02,880
really pursue God then, right? Yes. Yes, absolutely. It was, we came onto the same page, even though

188
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,600
I really didn't know much, and I don't think we're done a really knew much either, but

189
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:15,440
we did know that God is real. He can do anything. We just need to really pursue him. So Gordana was,

190
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:22,880
she was voracious, a Bible reader, continually in the word, continually sharing Jesus with the

191
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:29,920
people that would come in and around our life. And I also really began to pursue God with a passion

192
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:36,080
because I realized the importance of walking in what God had provided, the miraculous things of

193
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:43,200
God, because it saved my life. And I knew that there must be lots of people that needed to be

194
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:50,160
saved also. So we just, we began pursuing God with a passion at that point. So at some point,

195
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:57,040
you were hearing people talking about the miraculous. Yes, Gordana's friend. Would this happen

196
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:02,880
probably because I feel like the first walk, you know, with the Lord knowing him and seeing him

197
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:10,080
being on fire for him. But then something happened to me again in 11, 11, 2011, but that's when we

198
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:17,760
met Kim and she started talking and telling us about supernatural things, about being translated,

199
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:25,440
going places, gold dust and all kinds of stuff in which I never heard that before. I believed in

200
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:33,120
miracles, even being Orthodox and then reading the Bible is like I read about things that the Lord

201
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:39,760
was doing, people being healed and deliver, but I never about to a certain degree, the super,

202
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:47,600
supernatural. And Mike started kind of keeping track things that was happening with my friend

203
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:53,120
because she will get covered with gold dust. When she would share testimonies. Yeah. So she'd be

204
00:22:53,120 --> 00:23:00,080
talking about face to face encounters with Jesus or angels coming to deliver messages. And I thought

205
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:06,400
this is, I mean, I knew about deliverance and I knew about authority over evil spirits, but this

206
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:13,120
was something beyond anything that we had experienced and face to face with Jesus sounded a

207
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:20,240
lot better than face to face with some evil spirits. So I would tell Gordana, invite your

208
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:25,600
friend over, let's hear some more testimonies. And really that lit a fire, I think at least it

209
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:32,480
did for me, hearing the testimonies about what God was doing today. Yeah. And it caused us to

210
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:40,240
really pursue. So we, we set a course to try and pursue what God was doing, where we would,

211
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:45,200
where we could go, where people were talking about these things, conferences where people would share

212
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:54,080
about God doing the miraculous and it kind of took our, our passion and pursuit to another level,

213
00:23:54,080 --> 00:24:00,560
I would think. Yes. So you were going to conferences and going to more conferences and going to more

214
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:07,280
conferences. Yeah. And you heard them talking about the miraculous, but not how to get there.

215
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:17,360
That's it. Exactly. Yes. Then what happened? Well, after several years of, of pursuing in this way,

216
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:23,280
chasing after it, is anybody going to tell us how to get this walk closer to God that we're hearing

217
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:31,040
about? We were watching Sid Ross program one day and the guest happened to be Dr. Bruce Allen.

218
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:37,840
And, you know, in the past we'd heard guests and they would tell miraculous stories about being in

219
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:44,480
heaven and face to face with Jesus and things like that. But we would always hope that they would

220
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:50,320
pray a prayer of impartation, which we would come into agreement with. Extend your hand to the

221
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:58,400
television. Yes, extend our hands to the TV. Yeah. So, but this time Dr. Bruce, he told all these

222
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:04,000
wonderful stories, but then he said something very strange. He said, and now I'm going to tell you

223
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:10,320
how this can happen for you. I had never in the several years that we have been seeking, heard

224
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:16,400
anyone say anything even like that. It's like people had the stories, but they didn't have the

225
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:23,040
revelation to get the other person there. Yeah. Or, or if they did, they weren't sharing it. So

226
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:31,680
that's when Dr. Bruce gave a very simple explanation about waiting on the Lord. And that was life

227
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:39,280
changing for me. So after I heard his simple instruction, waiting on the Lord with expectation,

228
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:47,520
looking for God to show you something, I practiced that and I began to do that. And the very first

229
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:56,640
time that I did, I had an encounter, which was terrifying, but it was also real. So I realized,

230
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:02,400
okay, I've never experienced this before. This is kind of terrifying for me, but I had no knowledge

231
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:09,760
of spiritual things, the spiritual realm that the, that the realm of heaven is real. Um, had no

232
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,960
experiential knowledge of any of it. It was just a story, you know, previously.

233
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:22,960
Yeah. But as I began to wait on the Lord in prayer, then I began to experience his presence.

234
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:28,480
Uh, the very first time that I waited on the Lord, as Dr. Bruce described it on that television

235
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:36,240
program, uh, 45 minutes into waiting on the Lord, I had an encounter where I was, where I was taken

236
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:43,280
into the spirit realm with an angel in front of me. And it was terrifying at first, but it was

237
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,320
terrifying at first, but I realized the reason it's terrifying is because I don't know anything

238
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:53,840
about it. I've never experienced this before. I mean, let's face it, you grow up in kind of a

239
00:26:53,840 --> 00:27:00,160
dead church. You don't even feel God's presence. It's like during, you can't even call it a worship

240
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:05,520
service. We're all going to sing hymn number 305. Right. And as soon as we get through with that,

241
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,360
then we're going to do this or that. It's just, there was no, you know, presence of God, please

242
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:18,640
fall upon us. So I had no grid. Wow. So, so Gordana, at what point did you start to have this

243
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:27,040
kind of experience? Well, uh, my life changed in 11, 11, 2011. We went to a conference because

244
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,000
before that, even though my first walk with the Lord, you know, experience and knowing that

245
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,600
he lived inside of me, I have to know, because a lot of people think God lives in a building.

246
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,720
So knowing that and experiencing seeing a lot of the healing is in different things in the glory

247
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:49,520
cloud, but reading in the Bible and seeing this more stuff happen and, you know, being translated

248
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:55,520
different things. It's like, I started to die spiritually inside and we didn't have the

249
00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:01,440
fellowship at that time with other believers who were on the same path. Mike was taking us to

250
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:08,080
different churches, different conferences, and I was crying out to the Lord at this conference and

251
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:14,320
Mike didn't know about it. And I told the Lord, if you don't change my life and do something,

252
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:20,240
because I wanted, I knew there was more and I wanted to know, and I wanted to make sure it was

253
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:25,680
the real thing. I said that I'll just go back and be just like a regular Christian like before,

254
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:31,760
you know, just go to church and that's it. But I knew, like I said, the hunger inside of me.

255
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:37,360
I was crying as in if not, I'm just going back. So I was crying. I know somebody came by and touched

256
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:45,440
me and literally the Lord put his hand inside of me and my life changed forever. That's when

257
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:54,960
he opened my eyes where I could see angels, demons, no fear at all, started taking me. I would

258
00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:01,600
literally, I gave myself over to the Lord. I did before, but this time it's like I literally gave

259
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:07,440
myself over to him. I said, I'll be a sign and a wonder, whatever you want to do with me and through

260
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:15,920
me, I am yours. A lot of people had a hard time seeing what the Lord was doing through me because

261
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:22,480
I was literally like a wonder to see what he did with my body. And for a couple of years, like I

262
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,120
said, we couldn't have anybody come over because some of the things he was doing, it was a little

263
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:35,280
too much for people and the Lord would not allow us to share to see. So he let me, I mean, literally

264
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:42,400
I could see demons or whatever sickness people had. I could see that over them. He would show me

265
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:49,120
diamonds over people's body to know which color, whatever tribe and different things.

266
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:56,000
He would give me words of knowledge, the power that was flowing through me.

267
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,840
Can I explain that a little bit?

268
00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,360
Yes, go ahead.

269
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,720
So yeah, what Gordana is talking about was the Holy Spirit would fall upon her and she would shake

270
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:11,920
violently. She would feel his power and presence would like overtake her and she would shake in

271
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:19,040
ways that weren't, that didn't even look humanly possible. So it wasn't well received, but it was

272
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:25,760
received. She would like freeze in an ecstasy or whatever you want to call it. She would just like

273
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:33,120
freeze in position with her hands in the air and she would be like that for like hours. And her own

274
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:39,680
mom just really got really upset because she didn't understand it. But we would go to churches and it

275
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,720
wasn't accepted because people didn't have an understanding that the Holy Spirit could come

276
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:52,960
upon someone and cause that. So they would see it and sometimes they would think it was the devil.

277
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,480
So they would try and minister deliverance or they would think she had some kind of sickness.

278
00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,840
Yeah, seizure or something.

279
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:00,400
Yeah.

280
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:07,520
So they were trying to pray for her healing. And I remember once this big guy, he came over

281
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,480
to where Gordana was, I was about 20 feet away from her. And there were some women and they were

282
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:17,840
praying for her. And he came over and he chased them away. And I wondered what was going on. He's

283
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,960
chasing these women away. And I heard him say, if you can't recognize the difference between the

284
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:31,040
Holy Spirit and an evil spirit, you don't need to be praying for anyone. And he chased them away.

285
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,560
And then he came over and he rebuked me. He said, you need to protect your wife.

286
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:36,880
Was that an angel?

287
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,120
I was actually the head of the deliverance ministry of a big church.

288
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:41,680
Oh, okay.

289
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:42,240
Oh, wow.

290
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:48,240
But anyway, so then he went over and he got the prophet of their house and she came over

291
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,440
and prophesied over Gordana and was holding her feet and prophesying over her feet, which was

292
00:31:54,400 --> 00:32:02,320
an incredible scene and sight. But it challenged people when the Holy Spirit would fall upon

293
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:09,440
Gordana and she would begin to shake in such a violent manner. They didn't have a grid for it.

294
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:09,680
Right.

295
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:16,720
Yeah. And even though miracles were done during this time, it's like Gordana would grab hold of

296
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:24,080
someone. Well, I can let her tell the story, but she would grab someone and that electricity or

297
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:30,480
that fire would come upon them and they would be healed. Even with all that happening, people

298
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,600
still didn't have a grid for that. It was just too much.

299
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,040
It had good fruit.

300
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,400
It had great fruit.

301
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:41,920
Wow. Yeah. You know, discernment. We need better discernment when we can't recognize the Holy

302
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:48,880
Spirit. Because that is one of the signs biblically that you tremble at His word,

303
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:56,480
you tremble for fear of the Lord. Trembling is a scriptural thing and shaking all those things,

304
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,360
it's scriptural, but people are sadly biblically illiterate.

305
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,760
Yes. And we have a good history of it. I mean, you look at the shakers and the quakers.

306
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,920
Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

307
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,720
They weren't called that for non-biblical reasons.

308
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,640
That's right. That's exactly right. So go on. Then what happened?

309
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,600
Well, like I said, I would try to control it. Like Mike said, we would go places and

310
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,760
no matter how hard I would try to control it, it just like I couldn't because I knew it was the

311
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,520
Lord. And you had given yourself to Him and allowed Him to make you a sign and wonder.

312
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:29,840
Yes.

313
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,280
So He took you at your word.

314
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,880
Yes. I had to think that some of the things, yes, it was challenging because like Mike said,

315
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,760
when the power would come and I would feel the electricity at nighttime, this will go on for

316
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:48,560
four or five hours or six hours. When we would go to meetings and sometimes when I would give

317
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:54,560
myself over, whether for healings, I would pray people, whatever, I would prophesy. Sometimes

318
00:33:54,560 --> 00:34:00,960
I wasn't able to speak. He would loosen my mouth. I could speak in tongues or I wasn't able to speak

319
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:07,040
period. But if I spoke English, I would tell people, you're going to conceive or you're going

320
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:12,960
to be married. A lot of times my arm would start just riding in the air to write books,

321
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:19,760
to write books when I would pray for people. And when I would come out of it, I would tell them.

322
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,800
And I forget about a lot of the stuff. A lot of times I'm under the spirit, so I don't even know

323
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:30,000
who I'm praying for. When you go through a little persecution and I would just ask the Lord, is this

324
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,520
really you? I really need to know that this is you, what's happening with me and with my body.

325
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,480
So we would go back to some of the churches where I pray for some of the people. And it's like,

326
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,440
Godan, I remember you prophesied, you said that I was going to write a book. He said,

327
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:52,080
I just want you to know my book's out and it's been published. So he was confirming everything

328
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:57,840
that he was doing through me. But sometimes people had a hard time receiving it. Now,

329
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:06,560
when it came to a prayer, Mike had to help me because the power was so strong on me, his presence.

330
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:14,400
Like I said, people will get healed right and left and delivered. But he always had to help me and

331
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:21,040
carry me and hold me up. And the same stuff happened at home. And he let me experience

332
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:27,600
a lot as far as the supernatural, seeing the angelic, seeing the demonic, no fear at all,

333
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:35,760
no fear at all. And I'm talking angels, seeing I'm talking to them, seeing angels in the sky,

334
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,800
he would write to me because I was telling him, I love you Lord, I love you so much.

335
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:48,800
He would write to me in the sky and he would tell me, I love you. He opened up, when I would read

336
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:55,040
the word, sometimes when I would read literally whatever I was reading, I just, I would see a

337
00:35:55,040 --> 00:36:01,120
display. We were driving, I think it was Ohio. And I just got through reading and Daniel,

338
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:09,760
literally names went all across the sky that I was just looking at all. You could literally

339
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:17,360
grab them and catch them all different sizes, names, last names, where I could read them in my

340
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:24,960
mind, but he would not allow me to say the name, few names to tell Mike, but just some of the things

341
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:30,000
that he showed me, it could be mind blowing to a lot of people, to be honest.

342
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,720
Were those names so that you could intercede for people?

343
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:39,600
I really don't know because I was literally reading, he said, you know, this is not the time

344
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:47,760
to seal it up from the book of Daniel, the last chapter 12 for the knowledge to increase,

345
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,200
to go to and from.

346
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,440
That was a fun trip by the way.

347
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:59,920
I would ask him that, like Lord, because I prayed a lot, I would intercede every person that I knew

348
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:08,320
or remember or always for co-workers, neighbors, families, church people. And a lot of times he

349
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:15,360
used to take me just to go and pray in different nations and release. I would literally feel the

350
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:22,960
power and blowing and releasing that glory over nations, over country. And I knew when I was

351
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:29,920
going, because I could feel the difference, whatever my body, which parts when I was either

352
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:39,200
walking or if I was flying, I could smell, I realized the different places I was going, it would shift.

353
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:46,240
And when he would speak through me, when I was speaking different language, I could always

354
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:52,640
know when it shifted. So that's when I would go to different places, if that explains.

355
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:59,040
So tell about the time you went to China that you shared with us the other day in class.

356
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:07,200
That's when I got filled with the Holy Spirit. When I was coming back home,

357
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:12,080
when I like on the day of Pentecost, when they were filled with the Spirit and spoke in different

358
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:19,600
languages. So we're coming back home and as soon as I entered the house, I felt something going on

359
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:26,240
inside of me in my stomach. I remember I said, first part of my life, I spoke in tongues, I spoke,

360
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:34,080
but not to this, this was a total different baptism. So I started to hold my mouth because

361
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:39,280
I felt something bubbling up and I'm keeping my mouth shut. And I thought, I better run upstairs.

362
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:45,040
I can't hold this. I feel like I'm going to explode the air that it's coming through up,

363
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,920
through me, through my mouth. I can't hold this. I'm going to explode. So as soon as I went upstairs,

364
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:57,520
you know, the different language, I spoke Chinese for about three days.

365
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,040
Three days. Wow.

366
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:10,400
All of a sudden, I remember one night here I am praying and I'm singing and I'm leading worship.

367
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,160
And I don't do that. In Chinese.

368
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:20,640
In Chinese, I'm very shy person. I don't sing. I do it in my own private time to the Lord. Mike's

369
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:26,080
the one that does the singing. So I'm a little bit intimidated to sing in front of him. I used to,

370
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:32,000
not anymore. So I'm singing in Chinese, my hands up in the air. I'm just like directing like the

371
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,040
choir, all of these people. I'm going to say there were probably about 50 people. So we're singing.

372
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,000
And you're seeing yourself.

373
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:40,560
Yes.

374
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:40,880
Where?

375
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:47,600
Here. I know I was looking, I was out like towards the window. I knew my body was there,

376
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,640
but I could see, I mean in China, because I could see myself, it was outside.

377
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,000
In the rice paddies.

378
00:39:54,000 --> 00:40:02,160
In the rice. I can feel the wet, the water underneath. And it's all like grass. I didn't

379
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:09,440
realize that it was rice the later on because it was tall. And we're worshiping the Lord. After we

380
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,480
worshiped, they were singing. This went on for a little while. It was towards in the evening.

381
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,440
And next thing I said, the police is coming. The police is coming. This is all in Chinese.

382
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:26,240
So we all started running. And then bang, I was back at home where literally it's like,

383
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:33,440
I could feel the water and everything on my feet, but I didn't look down to see somebody else. Did

384
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:40,720
you look to see if your shoes or pants? I just experienced it was. But your feet still felt wet?

385
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:46,480
Oh yes. I felt that it was so real. Yes. And did you see this? Did you see her waving?

386
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:52,720
I did. I'd heard it was one of the strangest things up to that point I had ever seen,

387
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:58,960
but she was standing in our bedroom and she was directing a choir and she was singing in Chinese.

388
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:06,880
Now she'd already been speaking only Chinese for several days. She couldn't speak English at all,

389
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:13,920
no matter how much she tried to either me or the kids or anyone else. And so I see all this going

390
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:20,240
on. So I realized she's somewhere else. I'm just seeing kind of the overflow of what's going on.

391
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:25,680
And I think she spoke Chinese for three days at that time. And I think right after that,

392
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:33,520
my parents were supposed to come over for Sunday dinner and she was upset because she couldn't speak

393
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:39,760
English and my parents are definitely not on the grid for God doing that kind of miraculous.

394
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:46,160
But God loosed her tongue at literally the last moment, just as they stepped through the door.

395
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:51,760
But I thought, you know, I kind of wrestled with the idea. Well, you know, we don't know that this

396
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,880
is really Chinese. Maybe it's just some other tongue and you know, all the things that you think

397
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:02,720
about because to try and find a reason for a miracle to have happened, you know, the natural,

398
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:08,480
what's the natural reason. But about a couple of years later, we were in the Philippines and there

399
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:15,600
was a group of about 50 Chinese people and Gordana and Reshma Allen were praying for everyone. I mean,

400
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:22,240
there's like 400 people and they prayed for each and every person. And this Chinese lady comes over

401
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:28,320
to me and said, Oh, I didn't know your wife spoke Chinese. She just gave me a word in Chinese. And

402
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:36,160
I realized that it was indeed what God was doing because she was giving words in Chinese to people

403
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:42,800
as she prayed for some of them. Glory to God. So it was pretty incredible. That's marvelous.

404
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:49,760
So you were actually two places at once in the spirit. You had traveled to China while you were

405
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:58,080
standing in your bedroom. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And it's real. Yes. Very. It's absolutely real. And we

406
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:05,440
could tell stories for hours and hours of those kinds of realities. Why don't you tell us a couple

407
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:11,280
more of those kinds of stories? Because here's the thing. I want people to understand one thing.

408
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:17,040
And this is what I love about the two of you. Gordana, you're a hairdresser. Is that correct?

409
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,320
I used to do that. I had a stop. Yes. Okay. And Michael, your job was...

410
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,320
Repairing coffee machines and other types of vending equipment.

411
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:36,560
Okay. Rather ordinary, mundane kind of jobs. Yes. Yes. But because you were pursuing God

412
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:44,800
in your life, you were pursuing Him and making yourself available to Him. So through this

413
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:53,680
process of being very ordinary people, doing very ordinary jobs, God began doing extraordinary

414
00:43:53,680 --> 00:44:00,320
things through you, supernatural things through you, because you got the vision that that's what

415
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:09,760
He wanted to do. You read the Bible and said, yeah, we can do this. Do this in my life. I'm available.

416
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:15,920
Here I am. Here I am. Do it with me. Yeah. Many Christians are the mindset, especially in Bible

417
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:21,440
school. It's like, what is the main thing they kind of teach in Bible schools? Well, to be a preacher.

418
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:26,240
Sure. Go be a pastor. Go be a pastor. Go be a missionary. To be a missionary. But when you

419
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:30,800
get something that's out of the box, because something like this is something that the Bible

420
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,600
school does not teach you. It's the Holy Spirit Bible school that teaches you. Amen. And that's

421
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:42,400
and many don't know there's a real Holy Spirit Bible school. Amen. Because they're so used to

422
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:49,200
what they've seen or heard. Right. Yeah. But it's all about becoming available. Yeah. Saying, here

423
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:58,240
I am, Lord. And developing an intimate relationship with the Lord. Now, Michael, you tell some stories

424
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:05,920
about how you began to have experiences where you kind of started enjoying what you were doing for

425
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:13,520
your own fun. Yes. Amusement. You had to bring that up. Well, you know, I just want to bring

426
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:20,160
balance to people so that they understand the importance of keeping a right attitude. Can you

427
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:26,480
just tell us a little about that? Yeah. So even though all these things that we talk about,

428
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:33,280
the miraculous, the things of the Spirit, that is absolutely real, a believer has to keep anchored

429
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:40,400
in Christ. Amen. And the Lord had to teach me that lesson because I realized as I began taking steps

430
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:46,800
of faith and the Lord was like catching me into the spiritual realm to either teach me something

431
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:54,800
or give me a vision or a word that he would deliver to me. I realized the reality of that,

432
00:45:54,800 --> 00:46:02,800
but I also enjoyed being in that realm because the difference between the spiritual realm

433
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:09,360
and the natural realm is night and day. And when you hear people say that they died and they didn't

434
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:18,000
want to come back. And the reason being is that this world, this natural world pales in comparison

435
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:24,800
to the spiritual world. And I was experiencing that. And so do you want the whole story or do

436
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:30,720
you want the highlights? You can give whatever the Holy Spirit says to do. Okay. So I realized

437
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:36,400
something that in the spiritual realm, anything is possible. That's why when you pray for people in

438
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:41,840
the spiritual realm, you often get great results because there is no baggage of doubt and unbelief.

439
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:49,040
You're in a different realm. You're in a different place. And so I realized having the Lord having

440
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:56,080
sent angels to take me places and catching me away places, I realized that it's possible to fly in

441
00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:02,880
the spiritual realm. And I just enjoyed that experience so much that when I would get caught

442
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:08,800
into the spiritual realm, rather than using that as an opportunity to worship or pray, which was

443
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:15,440
my original intention, I would think to myself, I'm just going to fly for a little bit and then I

444
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:20,720
will pray. But it never worked out that way. It just seemed like I would enjoy being in the spiritual

445
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:27,680
realm. I wouldn't do anything for the kingdom in that moment. I wouldn't pray. I wouldn't worship.

446
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,880
I wouldn't ask God for revelation. I would just enjoy the experience of being in that realm.

447
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,640
It's like you're awake for the first time in your life. That's how profound it is.

448
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:45,360
So as I was doing this one day, I was sitting on the edge of my bed. I realized all of the sudden

449
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:50,640
that I'm in the spiritual dimension because God would, he would allow that. I would focus on it

450
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:58,320
so that I could pray or worship. And an angel blasted into the bedroom and he was huge and he

451
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:04,720
was a warrior. I could tell he had power rolling off of him. I don't even know how to describe that

452
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:11,280
accurately, but it was like billows of power that were coming off of him and they were hitting me.

453
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:16,320
And it was very uncomfortable. And he looked very angry and he came over to where I was sitting on

454
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:21,920
the bed and he leaned down into my face and he said, quit seeking the supernatural to amuse

455
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:27,680
yourself. You'll open a door to the spirit of witchcraft. And then he was immediately gone.

456
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:33,920
And I felt like I'd been run over by a truck. It was that, that experience was a correction and I,

457
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:41,600
I cannot forget it, but it let me know the importance of regardless of what miraculous event,

458
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:49,360
what's going on, how fun it is, any of that, it takes a second place to the fact that the things

459
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:56,880
that we do, we must do for the glory of God, for his kingdom and at his direction. We only do those

460
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:04,160
things that we see the father do. Beautiful. Beautiful. So anchors, can you give us a couple

461
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:11,440
of ideas of the things that we need our listeners to understand to keep them anchored in the Lord

462
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,360
so that they don't get off into the wrong things. I mean, you've just given us one,

463
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:20,240
not to do something for your own amusement. Yeah. Right. What are the things I always say,

464
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:26,560
just stay close to the Lord, stay in the word, stay in the word. Don't seek the soup. I know we

465
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:33,280
serve a supernatural God, but if you seek him, he will let you see everything you need to see.

466
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:42,720
He knows what's best for you. Don't seek experiences. Seek him. Seek him. That's it.

467
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:50,160
Seek him and stay in the word. Yes. That's definitely Gordana's, that's her go-to thing.

468
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:56,240
It's like she spends a lot of time in the word. And so there is, if you're in the word and you're

469
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:02,720
grounded in the word and you're constantly in the word, you constantly have that as your direction,

470
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:09,520
your focus is the word. So you're going to be obedient to that word that you're putting before

471
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:17,120
your eyes. And it really does keep you grounded. Yeah. And also it helps to have someone maybe to

472
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:23,840
have accountability to. That's good. Yes. That can help you work through issues if you have them

473
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:30,960
figure things out, pray for you, that type of thing. Testing the spirits. Oh, that's a big one.

474
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:37,920
From 1 John 4, that's really important. Ask the spirit, did Jesus Christ come in the flesh?

475
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:45,840
Yes. I had an experience once when, well, actually more than once, but if this is the kind of life

476
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:54,880
that you're seeking to live like Philip or Paul or John, you see the kind of life that they had

477
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,600
and you read in the scriptures some of the things that were going on and you realize these guys

478
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:05,040
live totally miraculous lives. If you're seeking that, then you definitely have to have the

479
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:13,120
safety nets in place, which is knowing who you are in Christ, having discernment, discerning of

480
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:21,360
spirits and testing the spirits. Because, you know, when the Bible tells us that we should test the

481
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:30,400
spirits, it tells us for a reason because it is a possibility. It's not something so far-fetched

482
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:35,120
out there that, well, this will never happen. No, it wouldn't be in the Bible if it wasn't a

483
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:43,760
possibility for it to happen. So I had an experience once when I was in Australia and this being shows

484
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:53,120
up in my room and he just looks so majestic and so handsome and just so powerful. But there was a

485
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:59,440
check in my spirit. Something was not quite right. And so I'm looking at him and I'm thinking

486
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,840
something's not right. He's not glowing bright enough or something. I don't know what's wrong.

487
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:11,040
And so when I thought that, suddenly he's glowing brighter and he's smiling with a brighter smile

488
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:16,880
and he's looking even more just wonderful, which really made me uncomfortable then.

489
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:26,240
And so I said, did Jesus Christ come in the flesh? And his smile went to this incredible scowl

490
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:31,440
that overtook his face and he got very angry and he said, why do you people always have to ask that?

491
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,560
And then he just disappeared. I didn't even have to rebuke him. He knew he was found out.

492
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,800
But that's the safety net God gives us. So we have to make use of it.

493
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:52,160
Yes. Now just one more question. How long did it take for you to get to where you are now

494
00:52:52,880 --> 00:53:02,400
in terms of being in the flow of the supernatural? And it's your lifestyle now. So did it take weeks

495
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:10,800
or days or? Well, you know, having the experiences that we've had and the lessons that we've had,

496
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:17,040
I think that part continues. But the part about being launched into this as a lifestyle,

497
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:26,720
I think it was instantaneous once we had the passion to pursue it. Because with me,

498
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:32,720
even though we had looked for a way to have that kind of life that we were hearing testimonies

499
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:40,720
about, as soon as I heard Dr. Bruce's explanation, it was like two days later that this became

500
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:46,400
lifestyle. I was spending time in my prayer chair, waiting on God and visions were coming.

501
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:53,680
Okay. With Gordana, it was also kind of an instant thing because when she came before the Lord,

502
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:58,400
weeping and saying, you have to give me that life that I'm reading about in the Bible,

503
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:04,240
it was that day, 11, 11, 11, that the Lord put his hand inside her and just

504
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:12,160
shook her to the core and changed her life completely. But is it always every day

505
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:18,160
like this or are there days where absolutely nothing happens? Well, with Gordana, I would say

506
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:23,280
it's pretty much every day, pretty much every day. I mean, it's rare that the Holy Spirit doesn't

507
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:29,920
fall on her and her night times, I mean, even here at your place, it's like she's overwhelmed

508
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:36,880
by the Spirit and she intercedes and her body shakes under his power for hours.

509
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:43,120
And for her, it's pretty much every day. But I learned something about myself.

510
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:52,320
If I laden myself with too much work, even ministry work, it kind of, and I get over tired

511
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:57,520
from doing ministry work, then it pulls me back from the spiritual dimension a bit.

512
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:03,120
So I literally have to set work aside and come and have my quiet time with the Lord

513
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,560
if I want to walk in it every day. Wow. Yeah.

514
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:13,360
Wow. But you always kept a journal. Yes. And there were some journals, journal days where you

515
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:19,040
fell asleep? I tell people, keep a journal because it's like an expectation that God's

516
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:25,040
going to do something. And so you have your journal and your pen ready to write it out,

517
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:33,360
what God's going to show you. And this is for everyone. And my journey, even as God began to

518
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:39,600
show me things, was often, an entry in my journal would say, I fell asleep after 10 minutes of waiting

519
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:46,800
on God, or I wanted to wait on God, but I fell asleep. I have no recollection that I waited at all.

520
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:53,840
Or just all of these things kind of being a part of the journey, just trying and kind of failing.

521
00:55:54,640 --> 00:56:00,160
Because even though I wanted to pray and wait on the Lord, I just didn't have the physical strength

522
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:04,960
so I would often fall asleep. I mean, this- Well, you were working 60 hour weeks.

523
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,480
I was working 60 hour weeks, yes. In your ordinary job.

524
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,080
In my ordinary job. But you were praying all through your ordinary job, praying for people

525
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:13,760
releasing the glory. I was.

526
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:20,160
Yeah. And God was doing things. He was doing things. And so I couldn't be disappointed

527
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:25,920
that I could not stay awake during the times of waiting on the Lord because then during the day,

528
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:30,400
He would just show Himself in miraculous ways. He would-

529
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:31,440
Oh, that's awesome.

530
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:36,960
Miraculous things would happen. I know, Gordana, it's the same way, even in normal everyday life.

531
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:43,200
Some of the things she would come home and tell me about, well, a woman she was praying for,

532
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:49,040
you know, like Gordana shakes when the power of God comes upon her. So she's hugging a woman

533
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,120
and working on her hair, who was sick.

534
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:58,160
And all of a sudden this woman begins shaking violently and she does, what's happening to me?

535
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:04,320
And she says, it's okay. God's touching you. God's touching you. Don't worry. Don't be afraid.

536
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:11,040
Or angels would show up to talk to her, even at the salon where she worked. And it was just,

537
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,920
God was making Himself real. So I didn't feel bad for falling asleep.

538
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:18,400
Right.

539
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:24,000
And because I knew that He was kind of directing our journey and we were seeing just,

540
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:28,960
even little miracles, you know, just let you know He's present. He's present.

541
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:29,840
Beautiful.

542
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,040
It's been a great journey.

543
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:31,520
Beautiful.

544
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:37,200
I'm kind of at the falling asleep stage, you know. But one thing I haven't done is have a

545
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:39,760
journal with a pen. Maybe that's-

546
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:40,480
Yes.

547
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,720
I need to do that. And I've been purposely drinking the more water at night if I go to the

548
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,720
bed. So you have to get up. That's a good idea.

549
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,640
You know, and then sometimes it's a stiff neck, you know, but I'd sit the alarm for an hour,

550
00:57:54,640 --> 00:58:01,040
you know, and I'll go off and say, okay, what did I accomplish? You know, I'm trying to pray,

551
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:07,520
just picture Jesus, you know, worshiping at the throne and, you know, and then the alarm goes off

552
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:15,120
or, you know, but, you know, I'm happy the winter fall season is coming on us where we don't have

553
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:20,640
all this extra outside work where it's so hot and you're so tired and all that. And I'm looking

554
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,440
forward to being able to spend more.

555
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:23,840
Amen.

556
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,200
A little more time inside the house.

557
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:26,000
It's going to be good.

558
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:26,400
Yeah.

559
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:27,840
Amen. How long do you-

560
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,800
But the point is diligence. Diligence, perseverance.

561
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:33,680
Obedience.

562
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,600
Obedience. That's another key. Obedience.

563
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,280
And anybody can do this.

564
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:39,840
Yes.

565
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:40,800
Anybody.

566
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:47,600
You know, Jesus said, you are my friends if you do what I ask you to do. You know, so it's-

567
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:48,080
That's true.

568
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,000
You know, and there's real keys there.

569
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:50,400
Right.

570
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:55,280
You know, it's just really, you know, in the scriptures, you read it, you know, the Lord

571
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,920
just giving those keys, it's just, it's all about him keeping him the center of it all.

572
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:04,480
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So Michael, you've written a number of books.

573
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:05,840
I have written a few.

574
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:14,480
And how can people find those? Just give us a few titles. I love that one about, about prayers.

575
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:15,440
Violent prayers.

576
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,840
Yes. For your adult children, right?

577
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:23,520
Yeah. I actually had a publisher friend of mine talk to me about that. He said, that

578
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:25,680
is the best title I have ever read.

579
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:31,840
But, but yeah, so violent prayers for your adult children. It's just, we would go to

580
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:37,040
so many meetings and even though we talk about things that are really inspiring sometimes,

581
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:44,160
people can't really give themselves to that if they have issues, you know, like children

582
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:48,640
that need to be saved, loved ones that are having problems. So I thought I've got to

583
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:50,320
write that book to let people know.

584
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:50,640
Yeah.

585
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:57,440
That there's, you know, God will answer their prayers. And so that book, Waiting on God,

586
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:02,880
I tried to make that really simple and explain how, when we talk about waiting on God, what

587
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:07,920
that means, how to see in the spirit, how to do spiritual warfare. Again, another very

588
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:09,120
simple book.

589
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:10,400
Angelic visitations.

590
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:12,400
Angelic visitations.

591
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,120
And they have keys, right? Spiritual keys to.

592
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:18,320
Yeah. And they have the keys to the spiritual world.

593
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,040
Keys, right? Spiritual keys to the.

594
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:26,880
Spiritual key, powerful keys to spiritual site. Yeah. That's another one.

595
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,240
And how do people get those books?

596
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:33,120
They're on Amazon. I've got, I show them on our website, but I don't sell them through

597
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:34,400
our website at this time.

598
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:38,000
So you have links to their, to them on Amazon. And so what is your website?

599
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:44,800
It's River of Blessings International Ministries. So if people type in River of Blessings, then

600
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,840
one of our pictures will show up and they'll know they're on the right track.

601
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:54,320
Okay. And we'll have your pictures on the little graphic of our podcast so people can

602
01:00:54,320 --> 01:01:01,920
recognize you. So we'll put links to those things in our show notes. Would you just,

603
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:07,920
we wonder, the other of you, would you pray for our listeners to have the kind of encounter

604
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:12,320
that they are hungry to have with God?

605
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,000
Absolutely. Absolutely.

606
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:18,800
Absolutely. So I'll pray and we can all agree for all the people.

607
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:25,760
Father in Jesus name, we just by faith right now, we release those things that you've given

608
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:31,520
us and we release an agreement from God's own right hand that the people listening and the

609
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:37,280
people that desire to be used of God in the most extraordinary ways, like Paul and the Bible,

610
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:43,600
father, we just release that grace upon them right now. And we just ask father that you

611
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:50,320
pour out your spirit exponentially on your people that love you and want to serve you and want to

612
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:56,320
know you in these ways, father. We just release that grace upon them right now. Everything you've

613
01:01:56,320 --> 01:02:02,720
given us, father, I ask you to give it to them. And as you're listening to this, just receive it.

614
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:07,920
Tell the Lord, yes, Lord, I want everything you have for me, everything you paid for me to have,

615
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:14,000
I receive it with gladness and just believe the Lord to do that now in Jesus name and father,

616
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:20,080
we thank you for doing this. We thank you for increase of dreams and visions and visitations

617
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:27,040
face to face with the Lord Jesus, whatever you have for us, father, pour it out. We receive it

618
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:38,480
with gladness and we thank you for these things in Jesus mighty name. Amen. Amen.

619
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:44,640
If you enjoyed today's podcast, please subscribe, rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts or

620
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:50,640
wherever you listen to podcasts. Your review helps the podcasting platform suggest this podcast to

621
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:56,000
other listeners who are also looking for a great move of the Holy Spirit. Check out our website

622
01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:02,240
at globaloutpouring.org to find out more information, read our blogs, connect with us and donate.

623
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:07,760
You can also browse our web store for life changing anointed books. Until next time,

624
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:26,640
this is Sharon Buss and I'm Philip Buss. God bless you with this overwhelming loving presence.