My Joy Eventually Came Back, Katy Stevens' Story

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Hey friends, I'm Jodie Chiricosta, author, ministry leader at Somebody Cares America and International

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and host of this podcast.

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Thanks for joining me.

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My guest today has a gripping story that just might change your perspective about things.

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We pray it will build your faith and equip you in your walk with the Lord.

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But before I introduce her, I'm going to give you a quick update about our Widows and Orphan

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Fund.

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Because of the generosity of women like you, we are able to help two brothers stay together

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in their family home.

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The father of Jalen and his younger brother passed away several years ago and it was difficult,

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but the family moved forward without the support of their loving dad.

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Then their home was damaged in a rare winter storm in Texas as water pipes burst everywhere.

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Volunteers rallied to help fix the house, but it was a really long process.

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And in the middle of it, their mother died unexpectedly.

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Jalen, who had just started college, had to quit to become the guardian and caretaker

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of his 11-year-old brother.

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But their home was still not livable.

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Funds to repair the home had run out.

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They were getting ready to return, but they couldn't.

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They needed an electric range.

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And that's where we stepped in as a company of women.

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We were able to purchase the appliance they needed so they could move back in and get

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back some semblance of normalcy.

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There are so many other opportunities to help widows and orphans and together we can do

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so much more.

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So I invite you to join us.

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You can make a donation on hergodstory.org by clicking on the Widows and Orphan tab.

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And thank you from Jalen and so many others like him.

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Ecclesiastes 3 verse 1 says, there is a special time for everything.

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There's a time for everything that happens under heaven.

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And then it goes on a list of a few things like there's a time to be born and a time

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to die, a time to plant and a time to pick what's planted, a time to cry and a time

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to laugh, a time for sorrow and a time to dance.

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There's a time to be quiet and a time to speak.

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My guest, Katie Stevens, has experienced the truth in these words in very personal and

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intimate ways.

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A music teacher, worship and youth leader, amazing vocalist, co-founder of Somebody Cares

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Baltimore, wife and mother of four sons, Katie shares the love of God in creative, fun and

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personal ways that nurture relationships for life.

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I know you will be moved by her God story.

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Welcome, Katie.

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Thank you, Jody.

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It's a privilege to be here enjoying getting to chit chat with you and getting a chance

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to say hey to everybody who's listening.

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A little fun fact, Katie and my husband have a hobby in common, collecting Starbucks mugs.

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Yes.

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But your collection far surpasses his, I think.

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So how did you get into that and how many do you actually have?

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So it started, I always say this is kind of the accidental collection that found me.

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I never decided one day like hey, I'm going to collect Starbucks mugs.

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A friend of mine, I had watched her kids for her as a favorite, this was about 10 years

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ago, had gotten me an Alaska mug as a gift because she was originally from Alaska.

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And then later that year, my husband and I were, happened to be in the Bahamas and I

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said oh, there's a Bahamas mug like the Alaska one.

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And then I lovingly say and then I blacked out and five years later I woke up and had

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126 mugs on my wall.

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But that's not quite how it happened.

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So yeah, I have the entire US You Are Here collection and very high number of international

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mugs as well.

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And I also have a representation of the global icon.

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But yeah, I think actually I just added a mug recently.

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I think my number is 127.

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And I've got very, very thoughtful and generous students and old high school classmates and

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friends and I get messages from people when they travel.

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As a matter of fact, one of my former students just texted me, do you have this Oxford England

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mug?

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And I'm like, no, she's like, I'm bringing it home for you.

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I don't even see them in Starbucks anymore.

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You know, so you are here mugs are discontinued.

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They're hard to find in the US.

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It's a nice conversation starter.

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They're in my studio where I teach.

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So when new students come in, it gives us, you know, kind of something to talk about.

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But they're really beautiful.

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And my, my son Josh kind of spearheaded a project that we all did together of a palette

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wall.

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So I have them all hanging on the wall, displayed as they should be.

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It looks like I'm very well traveled, but I'm not.

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And people say, do you drink out of them?

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And I say, well, not now that they're hanging on the wall.

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So awkward.

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Exactly.

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So yeah, it's, it's really, it's a fun conversation piece.

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And I'm, you know, again, it wasn't the collection I set out to have, but I'm a big coffee drinker.

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So I definitely appreciate it.

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Yeah.

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You will never run out of something to drink.

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Never run out.

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So do you have one from your hometown?

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I do.

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I have.

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I have both the global icon and the you are here mugs from Ohio.

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I actually truth be told, I have two, cause someone sent me a duplicate and the you are

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here mugs are funny because they don't have one for every single state or town, but some

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have like Texas has like five, like California has like five.

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So they're, they're a little bit indeterminate, but I, to my knowledge, I have all of the

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existing us ones.

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So that's kind of fun.

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So you grew up in Ohio.

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Tell us about your childhood.

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What was it like and how did Jesus become real to you?

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So I grew up in the church.

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My family was, we held our membership in a Baptist church, which was interesting because

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my dad worked at the Lutheran church down the alley from the Baptist church.

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He just retired from being an organist for 64 years.

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So I grew up in, you know, kind of more traditional faiths, but what I, what I really love about

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that is I have a deep love for hymns, just, you know, the good, I would say the Baptist

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church is a great church to get saved in because you really know you're really taught right

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from the beginning, you know, of making a decision to follow Jesus and get baptized.

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I had a very really laughter filled musical filled childhood.

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I have one older sister to whom I'm very close.

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Made the decision to go forward as we said at the service when I was about seven years

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old and got baptized.

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I grew up with a fantastic youth group, grew up in great like church choirs and just surrounded

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by a lot of people who, who love Jesus and it just was really, really a privilege to

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be able to grow up that way.

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So it was real to you even at a young age.

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It was, and I really was very blessed too to have grandparents that were all saved.

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And so I had some just really good role models.

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My paternal grandmother would read the Bible through just over and over again.

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And I remember she had the dates at the back of each time she would start and each time

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she would finish.

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And it was multiple times and she played the piano for Sunday school.

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All of my, you know, family was part of the church and, and it was really a blessing to

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grow up that way.

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Well, you know, a lot of people who accept the Lord as children, myself included, I had

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an epiphany experience about their faith, you know, sometime during their young adult

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years.

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Was that true of you?

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And if so, kind of how did that happen?

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I had some experiences when I went off to college, just where some things became a little

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more real to me.

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And I think I began not just to own it as a faith that I grew up with, but own it with,

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own it as something I chose to do.

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Was fortunate and I know we'll talk about my husband in a little bit.

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I actually met him right away when I went to college and part of what we were doing

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was leading Bible study.

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So my sister and her boyfriend and a group of us would just, that's what we wanted to

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do.

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We were all just hungry to grow more.

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So actually started a Bible study and just hung out with a crowd of like-minded people.

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So yeah, it really became real to me.

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Did you go to a Christian college or did you?

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No, I went to a big, I went to University of Akron in Akron, Ohio.

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So just a big, big state school.

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I was a music major there, but just really found a great cell of people and not just

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that, but they were just a lot of fun, just a lot of fun, like-minded people.

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So it was really, you know, not the typical college experience necessarily.

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Our parties looked a little different.

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But we were, you know.

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You actually remember your parties.

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Exactly.

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Our parties were like, have Bible study, then go eat at the, you know, go eat at the restaurant.

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And like that was about it.

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But we had fun.

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So yeah, so you were there and you were studying vocal performance.

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Is that right?

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Yes, I was vocal performance major.

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Correct.

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This is way before American Idol or The Voice.

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Yes.

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So what was your big dream?

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I would have loved, I always secretly when I was in high school, there was Star Search.

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So I'm really dating myself by saying that.

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So I think it's secretly I wanted to be on Star Search.

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But by the time, yeah, by the time American Idol came along, I was too old for it.

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And it's funny, a lot of people ask me, well, do you want, you know, you're a voice teacher.

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Do you watch The Voice and American Idol?

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I'm like, no, because I feel like I'm still working.

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It's like all day I analyze voices and I'm like, kind of tired of it by the end.

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Yeah, I honestly, truth be told, I would have been very happy becoming a famous singer or,

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you know, becoming a Broadway performer or something like that.

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But that just wasn't I just wasn't in the right place with the right kind of resources,

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I suppose.

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So around that time when you were in college, you met your husband.

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Yes.

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How did that happen?

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He was in a band, wasn't he?

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He was in a band.

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He had a mullet.

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He was fantastic.

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Yes, when I met my husband, I was 18.

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He was 21.

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We were babies.

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And he was a part of DOC Disciples of Christ, a Christian rap R&B group.

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He did have a mullet.

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I'm not kidding about that.

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I'm very serious.

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They had just been signed to a record label.

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So they were really breaking ground for the Christian rap industry in the early 90s.

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All of this is very fresh because they've actually recently gotten back together, which

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has been really, really cool.

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But yeah, he was a friend of a friend.

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He was, you know, this my sister had an established group of friends and I just kind of filtered

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right into that.

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And I met him and we just really, you know, from from the beginning, I just felt like

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he really got me and we had a strong friendship that evolved into obviously more than that.

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So yeah.

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So right out of college, you I mean, did you have a similar vision for youth ministry?

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Or was that something you kind of I did.

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I had a I had a passion for youth ministry because I had such a fantastic youth ministry

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experience when I was in high school.

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I was very close to my youth pastors.

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We stood, you know, practically live at their house, you know, just a real very relational,

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very real people.

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And I would I would always say, well, I'm never going to be able to convince someone

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that I, you know, that I want to marry to be a youth pastor.

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But Matt was already doing youth ministry when I met him.

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And I'm like, well, that's convenient.

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So that worked out well.

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Yeah.

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A God pairing.

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That's right.

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What did you learn?

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I mean, youth ministry is I mean, it's a unique ministry.

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Youth are, you know, in a time of life when they are just searching for who they are trying

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to figure out their identity.

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You know, what what did you learn through all of that?

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Absolutely.

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Well, I think a lot of it is is really building their relationships.

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You know, life happens at the speed of relationships.

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I think that's actually something that Doug maybe says, maybe just giving him credit.

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I don't know.

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But but definitely building relationships like each time we had a youth ministry stint

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somewhere, I have a group of kids and usually high school girls is where I would find the

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most connection.

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But a group of kids that we speak about fondly and connected with.

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And honestly, many of those are still friends with us.

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One of one of my best friends, she's 10 years younger than I am.

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But I met her when she was 16 because she was in our youth group.

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So just the relationships I think are key in that and listening and being there.

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And well, you know, the most influence.

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Yeah.

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The most influence we have is to people who trust us and are friends with us.

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So I I know when I was growing up, you know, some of the adult friends of our family are

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still lifelong friends today.

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And I look back on the formative years of my life and it was those people that spoke

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into our family and into my life that have had the most impact of anybody.

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I don't remember the sermons that I heard back when I was young for the most part.

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But I remember the relationships, the relationships and what they what they said and what they

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modeled in their faith.

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And so I could I knew it was real.

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I knew it worked.

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Oh, absolutely.

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I know my sister and I won one I remember in particular was our senior pastor of the

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church we grew up in, one of his daughters just would go out of the way, like would take

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us and get ice cream and hang out like those things really made a difference and just made

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you feel seen and heard.

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And I think that's one of the most important human needs that we have is to be seen, heard

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and understood.

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So yeah.

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So through all of this, you're in youth ministry and you and Matt start a family and pretty

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soon you have four sons.

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Boy, yes.

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Amazing how that happens.

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You were really outnumbered.

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Your household must have been wild.

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Yes, boys are are loud and rowdy.

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And I didn't know, you know, I was like, what is happening here?

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I grew up with one sister.

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We grew up I grew up in a female dominated household.

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I'm a you know, I've always been a girly girl.

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I'm like, what am I doing?

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All of a sudden, my life is filled with dinosaurs and climbing trees and rocks and and stinky

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shoes.

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But you know what it is, I adore my boys.

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They're they're just wonderful.

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They're fun.

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We have a real I have a kind of a different relationship with each one of them.

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But there's just such a tenderness and a connection that that's that's individual with each of

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them.

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And I'm really, really good now that they're now that they're all men.

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I feel like the safest person in the world.

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My shortest son is six, two and my tallest son is six, six.

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So like nobody's messing with me.

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No, you are surrounded.

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Yes.

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So eventually you left Ohio, you went to Baltimore to join the staff of a church in Baltimore.

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Matt did.

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And then you kind of joined the ministry there as well.

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And God had you put down roots in Baltimore.

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I mean, was that something you're excited about?

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Did you expect to like Baltimore or stay there?

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You know, it's funny, Jodi, when I think about growing up like I, you know, I grew up in

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the middle of flat Ohio.

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I mean, I just didn't know anything about Ohio.

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And I don't remember having any kind of impression of the East Coast or Baltimore or any of I

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mean, you think New York City and Washington, D.C.

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That's like all, you know.

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So you know, we definitely felt a strong pull bringing us here.

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We moved here in November of 1999.

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So we've been here for almost 23 years, which is crazy.

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And honestly, weren't sure if we were going to stay.

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There were a few times that we tried to pursue some opportunities and it seemed like the

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doors always closed.

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And so we've like I said, we've been here now for, you know, a couple of decades.

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I can't imagine being anywhere else because this is home to us and we really have a heart

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for this city.

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My husband especially is really involved in things going on in the city, but just have

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some really strong roots and people in our lives out here too that mean a lot to us.

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Well, your family, I mean, you are immersed in ministry.

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I mean, all your sons got involved in.

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I mean, you kind of just brought them along as you had been when you were growing up,

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which is a fantastic thing.

305
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And life was going on.

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You were probably seeing God work in the lives of a whole nother generation of young people.

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But all of a sudden you experienced every parent's worst nightmare.

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When you lost one of your sons in a tragic car accident.

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Tell us about that.

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How did you even cope with that?

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Here you are in ministry and then your son is taken.

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I mean, in youth ministry and your son is taken from you.

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00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,580
So it actually happened in August of 2005.

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We actually were traveling with a group of interns that were all high school, young college

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age that we had about six interns with us.

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And we were doing some kind of a we had been in we had been up in Massachusetts.

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We had been in New York, Pennsylvania.

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We were getting ready to go to New York City.

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So this was a week where our team was just kind of recuperating and reconnecting in Western

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Maryland.

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So Maryland has this panhandle.

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So way out in Western Maryland.

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And I had actually come back to Baltimore because I had a couple of obligations with

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a worship team I was leading at the time.

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And I brought our two youngest sons with me.

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They were four and six at the time.

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And my husband stayed out there with our oldest two boys who were 10 and 11.

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And sadly, one of those mornings a vehicle being driven by someone else on our team had

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lost control and flipped over and both of my older sons were in the vehicle.

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And just through a series of circumstances, we did lose our 10 year old son, Caleb, quite

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suddenly that day.

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And you know, as you can imagine, you feel all the things you feel shock, you feel denial,

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you feel just it just came out of it came out of nowhere.

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And all of a sudden, he's just gone.

335
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,560
Yeah, just just devastating.

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My husband had called into town and had our friends and pastors at the time, Kevin and

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00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:33,200
Becky Harrison, come to the house so they would be at the house when he called me to

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tell me the news.

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And they were there shortly after he reached me.

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So and then, you know, it's just a blur.

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People came from our family and friends came from multiple states.

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I don't even remember and you know, you do all the things that you have to do when you

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lose someone and then you start to find your new normal and figure out how you're going

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to go on.

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So yeah, I mean, it's not something you can ever really make sense of.

346
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No.

347
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,600
But how do you I mean, what what did you I mean, your your two, your three sons were

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00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:10,200
there still and they had lost a brother and yes, you're dealing with your own grief and

349
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trying to help them through that.

350
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I mean, how did you do that as a mom?

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It's almost seems like an impossible task.

352
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Yeah.

353
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And and I think in some ways, there's a blessing to having the other three boys and having

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to be there for them because that forces you to go on.

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And you know, you hear of people who lose a child who like literally just curl up in

356
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bed and they're just done.

357
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And I get that I, I definitely can understand wanting to do that.

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And you know, for me, I'm maybe obviously an extrovert, people are very important to

359
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me.

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00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,760
And for me being surrounded by good friends, family, people letting me verbally process

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how I was feeling, letting me talk through things, having having friends in my life that

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would cry with me when I would cry and laugh with me when I would laugh and not make me

363
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feel weird for how I was feeling that particular day.

364
00:19:03,860 --> 00:19:08,220
Like they would just say, I'm here for you, I'm showing up and I'm going to be whatever

365
00:19:08,220 --> 00:19:09,760
you need me to be.

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00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,260
That was a saving grace for me for sure.

367
00:19:12,260 --> 00:19:16,400
But then creating the new normal, create, you know, I think I mentioned to you staying

368
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,400
busy was a blessing during that time.

369
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:19,800
Like staying busy.

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00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:24,340
Fortunately, I was, I was in the job transition and I was, I actually taught school that year

371
00:19:24,340 --> 00:19:27,560
and my oldest son, Josh, was in my class.

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That was a blessing because we needed each other.

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So we, we leaned very hard on each other that year he was in sixth grade and I was his teacher.

374
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:37,200
And that's, you know, that's kind of what we did.

375
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And we created this new normal.

376
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:43,780
We moved into a different house about a year later and found some peace in this new house

377
00:19:43,780 --> 00:19:45,980
and it's still where we are now.

378
00:19:45,980 --> 00:19:49,960
So yeah, it was interesting because, because God had shown me actually something during

379
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:50,960
that time.

380
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:57,240
I felt like God almost gave me permission to be selfish for a while and just take care

381
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,200
of myself, meaning myself and my family.

382
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,100
When you live a life where you're generally focused on others and you, you are used to

383
00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:09,460
being that way, it feels self-serving to turn your attention inward.

384
00:20:09,460 --> 00:20:13,060
And I really felt God showing me like, it's okay for you to do that.

385
00:20:13,060 --> 00:20:15,340
And I was like, okay, I'll do that for a while.

386
00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:19,720
And it's funny Jodi, because there was a moment that I felt when that lifted and I'll tell

387
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:20,720
you what it was.

388
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,680
It was, I got a Christmas card from a high school friend from the way she signed the

389
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:31,160
Christmas card, I could tell that she and her husband had recently split up.

390
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:36,060
And I thought that's interesting because I've been so in my own zone that I didn't know

391
00:20:36,060 --> 00:20:37,900
that was going on with her.

392
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:41,580
And that was kind of my wake up call to say, okay, you've had your season and now it's

393
00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:44,840
time for you to start turning your attention to helping others again.

394
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:51,060
Because me losing my child was a big thing, but her marriage coming to an end was a big

395
00:20:51,060 --> 00:20:54,360
thing for her, probably as big to her as that was to me.

396
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,980
Like I said, we've all got something that blocks our sunshine.

397
00:20:57,980 --> 00:21:02,620
And for every, there's no scale of who wins at tragedy.

398
00:21:02,620 --> 00:21:05,620
So we all have tragic things we go through.

399
00:21:05,620 --> 00:21:09,220
And we just have to pay attention to when it's time to take care of ourselves.

400
00:21:09,220 --> 00:21:13,220
And then when it's time to take care of ourselves by helping to take care of other people as

401
00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:14,220
well.

402
00:21:14,220 --> 00:21:20,740
I think of Abraham, he is the patriarch in the Bible and he was called a friend of God.

403
00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:26,420
And if you look at Abraham's life, and he even says this somewhere in the New Testament,

404
00:21:26,420 --> 00:21:27,900
but he was a family man.

405
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:31,980
I mean, God said, I am building a family through you.

406
00:21:31,980 --> 00:21:35,020
And that was his main purpose in life.

407
00:21:35,020 --> 00:21:39,980
If you look at all of his story, yes, it was following God, but it was all related to family.

408
00:21:39,980 --> 00:21:42,140
I mean, he went to war for his family.

409
00:21:42,140 --> 00:21:43,900
He did all sorts of stuff for his family.

410
00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:49,980
And that was a very legitimate and important assignment of God.

411
00:21:49,980 --> 00:21:53,660
So yeah, I mean, we cannot leave our families behind.

412
00:21:53,660 --> 00:22:01,500
And when there are times that, yes, we help others, but family, that's our first ministry

413
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:02,500
priority.

414
00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:07,560
And it's interesting too, because we're five people with five different personalities who

415
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,540
all process grief differently.

416
00:22:09,540 --> 00:22:14,060
And so allowing each other, knowing that how I process is not going to be the same way

417
00:22:14,060 --> 00:22:18,800
that Josh processes, is not going to be the same that my husband processes, or the younger

418
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:19,800
two boys.

419
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,860
So if there's a day that we're having a rough day, we need to allow that person to have

420
00:22:24,860 --> 00:22:27,180
a rough day and try to be strong for them.

421
00:22:27,180 --> 00:22:31,140
And again, I like to talk things through.

422
00:22:31,140 --> 00:22:33,820
Other people in my family process very quietly.

423
00:22:33,820 --> 00:22:39,020
So giving each other permission to just be who we are and being willing to hold their

424
00:22:39,020 --> 00:22:41,620
hand while they walk through that, I think that's really, really important.

425
00:22:41,620 --> 00:22:43,060
Yeah, so wise.

426
00:22:43,060 --> 00:22:49,300
I think a lot of people who are in grief expect everyone around them to participate in their

427
00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:51,220
method of grief.

428
00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:52,220
Absolutely.

429
00:22:52,220 --> 00:22:53,220
And there's no manual to that.

430
00:22:53,220 --> 00:22:54,820
I've said that a hundred times.

431
00:22:54,820 --> 00:22:57,380
There is no manual to how to lose a child.

432
00:22:57,380 --> 00:22:59,540
There's no way.

433
00:22:59,540 --> 00:23:01,700
You have to walk through it the way you walk through it.

434
00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:04,940
I've had some people say some very helpful, uplifting things to me, and I've had some

435
00:23:04,940 --> 00:23:12,260
people say some very stupid things to me, to be honest, under the umbrella of trying

436
00:23:12,260 --> 00:23:13,500
to be helpful.

437
00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:18,420
And I just think it's important that we pay attention and love people well and let people

438
00:23:18,420 --> 00:23:19,900
process the way they process.

439
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:23,140
I've answered this a little bit, but I'm just going to throw it out there in case there's

440
00:23:23,140 --> 00:23:24,700
anything else you want to say about it.

441
00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:29,940
But a lot of people, when tragedy strikes, they start asking the question, where are

442
00:23:29,940 --> 00:23:30,940
you, God?

443
00:23:30,940 --> 00:23:31,940
Where were you?

444
00:23:31,940 --> 00:23:32,940
Where was he?

445
00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:36,100
Where did you see him in the midst of all of this going on?

446
00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:37,980
And how did he reveal himself to you?

447
00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:44,140
I had to revert a lot to understanding that God's ways are higher than our ways and his

448
00:23:44,140 --> 00:23:45,420
thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

449
00:23:45,420 --> 00:23:51,580
And some days that's all I had to cling on to, and just understanding that I don't understand.

450
00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:53,660
Some days that was the best I had.

451
00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:58,940
And some days it was like, okay, cool, I got out of bed, I breathed today, I put one foot

452
00:23:58,940 --> 00:24:00,300
in front of the other.

453
00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:04,300
And just, I think that's it, is understanding that there are just things that are going

454
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:08,060
to happen on this side of eternity that we don't understand.

455
00:24:08,060 --> 00:24:12,300
And we want to know things, we want to figure things out, we want reasons, we want answers.

456
00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:18,020
And sometimes that's just, it's not owed to us, and it's not going to happen.

457
00:24:18,020 --> 00:24:25,400
The Bible actually doesn't promise us ease of life and sunny days and butterflies and

458
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:26,740
unicorns and rainbows.

459
00:24:26,740 --> 00:24:30,220
The Bible actually guarantees us that we're going to have trials.

460
00:24:30,220 --> 00:24:33,500
So it's like each day is a gift.

461
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:40,860
And if we start looking at those ordinary days like they're gifts, and just enjoy God's

462
00:24:40,860 --> 00:24:44,580
grace in the midst of that, I think sometimes that's just what we need to do.

463
00:24:44,580 --> 00:24:50,020
Talking to you, it's very clear to me that you have a great confidence in the goodness

464
00:24:50,020 --> 00:24:57,740
of God, because you could walk through those times of pain and uncertainty, and you can

465
00:24:57,740 --> 00:25:04,540
allow those questions to go unanswered because you know that God is good and He's for you.

466
00:25:04,540 --> 00:25:08,620
There is a song that I would sing sometimes right around the time that this happened,

467
00:25:08,620 --> 00:25:14,980
and it's called Trust His Heart, and it's like sometimes, or God is too wise to be mistaken,

468
00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:16,900
He's too good to be unkind.

469
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:22,940
And that was the, it's like, well, I don't understand the whys, I have some questions,

470
00:25:22,940 --> 00:25:28,660
but really what other choice do we have than to just trust His heart for us and trust that

471
00:25:28,660 --> 00:25:30,820
the big picture is in His control?

472
00:25:30,820 --> 00:25:31,820
And it's not easy.

473
00:25:31,820 --> 00:25:32,820
Who else can we turn to?

474
00:25:32,820 --> 00:25:33,820
Exactly.

475
00:25:33,820 --> 00:25:36,340
You're a very joyful person.

476
00:25:36,340 --> 00:25:38,420
When did that joy start coming back?

477
00:25:38,420 --> 00:25:43,140
I know right after the loss of your son, there was probably a loss of joy.

478
00:25:43,140 --> 00:25:44,140
Yes, absolutely.

479
00:25:44,140 --> 00:25:46,580
When did you notice that coming back?

480
00:25:46,580 --> 00:25:49,380
I mean, it definitely took some time.

481
00:25:49,380 --> 00:25:56,420
Like I mentioned, we lost him in August and we relocated to a new home in June of the

482
00:25:56,420 --> 00:25:58,080
following year.

483
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:03,380
Our newer home literally has more yard and space, and that was kind of healing for me

484
00:26:03,380 --> 00:26:08,380
just to have some almost tangible peace around.

485
00:26:08,380 --> 00:26:13,260
And it just, as the days go on, I would find like, okay, I laughed today.

486
00:26:13,260 --> 00:26:14,580
I haven't laughed in a while.

487
00:26:14,580 --> 00:26:21,260
Or I sing all the time, my poor family and dogs, but Matt would start to notice I would

488
00:26:21,260 --> 00:26:22,980
be singing around the house again.

489
00:26:22,980 --> 00:26:30,300
So definitely took some time as we forged the new normal, but we gave ourselves as much

490
00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:31,580
time as we needed to.

491
00:26:31,580 --> 00:26:35,860
I think that's, and that's not going to be the same for everybody either.

492
00:26:35,860 --> 00:26:36,860
You were still in ministry.

493
00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:41,620
You were still doing youth ministry even at this time and teaching at a school.

494
00:26:41,620 --> 00:26:46,340
Did this whole experience change your perspective or approach to ministry?

495
00:26:46,340 --> 00:26:51,660
I was in a very transitional employment wise, a little bit of a transitional time because

496
00:26:51,660 --> 00:26:54,540
I taught school, but I only did that for one year.

497
00:26:54,540 --> 00:26:57,300
I was doing a worship leading job.

498
00:26:57,300 --> 00:27:03,660
We did not, at the time we were doing kind of outreach, our nonprofit outreach ministry,

499
00:27:03,660 --> 00:27:10,060
we were traveling a lot in the summer, but we took on another formal church youth pastor

500
00:27:10,060 --> 00:27:12,740
position in 2008.

501
00:27:12,740 --> 00:27:15,620
That was just, it was a particularly great group of kids.

502
00:27:15,620 --> 00:27:18,860
Again, I'm still friends with a lot of them.

503
00:27:18,860 --> 00:27:24,180
You know, just continuing to do the things that we had done, be relational.

504
00:27:24,180 --> 00:27:29,020
And I just think when you're functioning and what you're made to do, it helps pull you

505
00:27:29,020 --> 00:27:31,180
through the hills and valleys.

506
00:27:31,180 --> 00:27:37,700
It really helps you continue to go on because you're moving in what your purpose is.

507
00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:42,300
The best that you can step back when you need to step back, but I think going on and moving

508
00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:45,420
forward is often the best thing that you could do.

509
00:27:45,420 --> 00:27:49,860
Yeah, I love your family motto, love God, love people.

510
00:27:49,860 --> 00:27:52,460
And you really do do that in so many ways.

511
00:27:52,460 --> 00:27:58,180
I mean, you and Matt even co-founded Somebody Cares Baltimore, which is a ministry that

512
00:27:58,180 --> 00:28:04,140
unifies churches in Baltimore to see the city transformed, really being a tangible expression

513
00:28:04,140 --> 00:28:05,540
of God's love to the city.

514
00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:07,180
How did that come about?

515
00:28:07,180 --> 00:28:09,060
What's your role in that?

516
00:28:09,060 --> 00:28:11,420
What have you seen God doing through that?

517
00:28:11,420 --> 00:28:14,180
It's looked like a lot of different things over the years, Jodi.

518
00:28:14,180 --> 00:28:19,140
And of course, you know, in the last couple of years, you know, obviously we know with

519
00:28:19,140 --> 00:28:25,580
the pandemic, things have changed, but it kind of is hand in hand with my husband's

520
00:28:25,580 --> 00:28:26,580
job.

521
00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:31,020
He does work for the Baltimore City Police Department and he runs the chaplaincy, but

522
00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:34,060
he's been active in the city a lot longer than that.

523
00:28:34,060 --> 00:28:39,580
And we will do these events called Day of Hope, where we basically have a block party.

524
00:28:39,580 --> 00:28:41,240
We do a lot of homeless outreach.

525
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:46,860
We make bags of hope full of essentials that people who live on the street might need and

526
00:28:46,860 --> 00:28:50,460
whatever other opportunities present themselves.

527
00:28:50,460 --> 00:28:54,820
So just really paying attention, you know, we're definitely all for foreign missions

528
00:28:54,820 --> 00:28:58,660
and what's going on in other countries, but we also firmly believe that there's a lot

529
00:28:58,660 --> 00:29:01,340
of need right here in our own backyards.

530
00:29:01,340 --> 00:29:06,820
So you know, teaching people that you can drive for, you know, you can drive for 20

531
00:29:06,820 --> 00:29:11,220
minutes and be in a completely different environment where people have a fraction of what you have.

532
00:29:11,220 --> 00:29:15,540
So a lot of that's just been opening the eyes of those around us to what the need is.

533
00:29:15,540 --> 00:29:18,980
And that it doesn't often take too much to meet that need.

534
00:29:18,980 --> 00:29:23,180
You just have to be ready and willing to do what needs to be done.

535
00:29:23,180 --> 00:29:28,780
Yeah, I've also found that a lot of people have a fear of that first step.

536
00:29:28,780 --> 00:29:33,640
But once they take that first step, God comes in and gives them confidence and boldness

537
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,260
and changes their life.

538
00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:40,020
Really, I mean, just just takes one step to change your life if it's an obedience to God.

539
00:29:40,020 --> 00:29:46,580
Baltimore also, unfortunately, has suffered a very high crime rate and a lot of upheaval

540
00:29:46,580 --> 00:29:50,540
and turmoil that's resulted in the deaths of a lot of a lot of young people.

541
00:29:50,540 --> 00:29:58,340
I'm sure the loss of Caleb has given you and Matt an empathy for ministering in those communities

542
00:29:58,340 --> 00:30:05,460
that a lot of a lot of people probably don't have just because you understand the loss.

543
00:30:05,460 --> 00:30:06,460
Yes.

544
00:30:06,460 --> 00:30:09,140
And without Christ, the hopelessness that would be there.

545
00:30:09,140 --> 00:30:10,140
Yes.

546
00:30:10,140 --> 00:30:16,420
There are even some organizations in the city of specifically like mothers who've lost their

547
00:30:16,420 --> 00:30:18,220
sons, their children to gun violence.

548
00:30:18,220 --> 00:30:20,340
I mean, that's just the reality of where we live.

549
00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:21,340
And this is a tough city.

550
00:30:21,340 --> 00:30:23,300
This is a tough place to live.

551
00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:28,420
There are also a lot of people with a lot of compassion that want to see things change.

552
00:30:28,420 --> 00:30:33,500
So being able to look in the eyes of those people who have suffered a similar loss and

553
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:36,820
be able to take their hand and give them a hug.

554
00:30:36,820 --> 00:30:39,100
All of that makes a difference.

555
00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:43,500
Just that again, being seen, heard and understood, I think is huge.

556
00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:47,980
So we've had some opportunities to step into that because of the involvement that we've

557
00:30:47,980 --> 00:30:52,380
had and just to see just believing for things to make a change.

558
00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:54,740
There are little changes brewing all around.

559
00:30:54,740 --> 00:30:59,900
So it's hard for that positive because it gets drowned out in the negative part of it.

560
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:03,560
But there are things happening and shifting and changing.

561
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,500
So we're excited to see what continues to happen.

562
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:09,300
Well the news always tries to sensationalize the bad.

563
00:31:09,300 --> 00:31:10,300
Sure.

564
00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:14,460
But being there, it's nice to know that there's you're seeing seeds of hope here.

565
00:31:14,460 --> 00:31:15,460
We love it here.

566
00:31:15,460 --> 00:31:16,940
Honestly, we just we love it here.

567
00:31:16,940 --> 00:31:17,940
We really do.

568
00:31:17,940 --> 00:31:19,500
It's been a great place to raise our kids.

569
00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:21,840
It's been yeah, it's been really good.

570
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,620
So how do you balance being a mom, working, serving in ministry, leading worship?

571
00:31:27,620 --> 00:31:31,700
I mean, you've got a lot of balls up in the air.

572
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:33,280
Yes, a lot.

573
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:38,340
And things have shifted for me, you know, even especially like in the last five years

574
00:31:38,340 --> 00:31:43,340
because both of our two youngest sons have graduated from high school and I homeschooled

575
00:31:43,340 --> 00:31:44,500
both of them through high school.

576
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:49,100
I'm not really quite sure how we quite sure how we crossed that finish line, but we made

577
00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:50,100
it.

578
00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:51,100
It wasn't pretty, but we made it.

579
00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:55,020
No, it was actually if I had to choose it all again, I would.

580
00:31:55,020 --> 00:31:57,020
It was a great experience for all of us.

581
00:31:57,020 --> 00:32:02,860
But so yeah, so so not only balancing the roles, but as the roles have changed and I'm

582
00:32:02,860 --> 00:32:05,660
looking at this second act in my life now.

583
00:32:05,660 --> 00:32:12,740
So I just I just turned 50 about a month ago and my role as a mom is still there, but it's

584
00:32:12,740 --> 00:32:15,420
much different than it used to be.

585
00:32:15,420 --> 00:32:16,420
I don't know.

586
00:32:16,420 --> 00:32:18,540
I kind of just do the next thing.

587
00:32:18,540 --> 00:32:23,500
Actually, one thing that I love is I've my best friend and I have started our own podcast

588
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:25,260
in the last two years.

589
00:32:25,260 --> 00:32:31,580
And that has been incredibly fun and fulfilling and just the chance to bring joy to a lot

590
00:32:31,580 --> 00:32:32,580
of people.

591
00:32:32,580 --> 00:32:34,260
What's the name of your podcast?

592
00:32:34,260 --> 00:32:35,780
It's called the Mo and Katie Show.

593
00:32:35,780 --> 00:32:41,340
So Mo with no E and Katie with a Y. And it's just promoting gratitude, humor and positivity.

594
00:32:41,340 --> 00:32:42,340
That's what we do.

595
00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:44,540
We really focus on things that are positive.

596
00:32:44,540 --> 00:32:50,860
We like puns and and kind of stupid humor sometimes, but it tends to work for us.

597
00:32:50,860 --> 00:32:52,740
But just if you want to keep things light.

598
00:32:52,740 --> 00:32:55,540
And so that has been so much fun.

599
00:32:55,540 --> 00:32:58,500
It has been and Mo and I have very different backgrounds.

600
00:32:58,500 --> 00:32:59,940
She's retired military.

601
00:32:59,940 --> 00:33:03,700
I'm a mom and musician, but we just come together and it works.

602
00:33:03,700 --> 00:33:04,860
So that's been fun.

603
00:33:04,860 --> 00:33:10,540
So yes, so balancing the roles and my running my studio full time.

604
00:33:10,540 --> 00:33:15,300
I really, really enjoy I'm I'm definitely not as hands on with ministry as I used to

605
00:33:15,300 --> 00:33:19,020
be, but it's really good to still have my finger on the pulse of what somebody cares

606
00:33:19,020 --> 00:33:23,940
Baltimore is doing and to, you know, watch and support Matt in how things are moving

607
00:33:23,940 --> 00:33:24,940
forward.

608
00:33:24,940 --> 00:33:29,620
But yeah, but life as it does has definitely shifted in the last several years.

609
00:33:29,620 --> 00:33:30,620
Different seasons.

610
00:33:30,620 --> 00:33:31,620
Absolutely.

611
00:33:31,620 --> 00:33:32,620
Yep.

612
00:33:32,620 --> 00:33:36,420
Well, because your boys grew up and were involved in ministry pretty much all their lives, they

613
00:33:36,420 --> 00:33:40,060
all have a really deep faith that they live out.

614
00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:45,140
And just as you and Matt were starting to think about what is emptiness life going to

615
00:33:45,140 --> 00:33:48,420
be like that faith was really tested again.

616
00:33:48,420 --> 00:33:49,420
Yes.

617
00:33:49,420 --> 00:33:54,660
Share your journey as a mom and you know, when your son Josh was diagnosed with lymphoma.

618
00:33:54,660 --> 00:33:57,740
So that was another, you know, kind of out of nowhere thing.

619
00:33:57,740 --> 00:34:02,340
We had started looking at downsizing where we were living and, you know, wanted to live

620
00:34:02,340 --> 00:34:05,940
on the water and looking at the boys become more independent.

621
00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:07,220
Josh had already moved out.

622
00:34:07,220 --> 00:34:13,220
He was 25 at the time and he we'd actually just gotten home from a camping trip.

623
00:34:13,220 --> 00:34:19,260
It was Labor Day of 2019 and he called and, you know, big strong 25 year old Josh was

624
00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:20,260
in tears.

625
00:34:20,260 --> 00:34:22,580
He said, Mom, I've got this pain in my chest.

626
00:34:22,580 --> 00:34:23,580
It won't go away.

627
00:34:23,580 --> 00:34:24,580
I don't know what it is.

628
00:34:24,580 --> 00:34:26,620
So I said, okay, let's go to the ER.

629
00:34:26,620 --> 00:34:32,500
So I took him to the ER and long story short, by the time we left the ER, we had a diagnosis

630
00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:38,640
that it was most likely lymphoma cancer, that it had spread to several organs in his body.

631
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,860
We were devastated, just absolutely devastated.

632
00:34:41,860 --> 00:34:46,100
And all of a sudden overnight are talking to oncologists, getting him admitted.

633
00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:51,300
This tumor was growing rapidly and was endangering his health because it was obviously because

634
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:54,520
it was cancer, but also it was impending his breathing.

635
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,180
They weren't able to put a port in right away because of the tumor.

636
00:34:58,180 --> 00:35:04,060
It was just we just just jumped all feet onto this roller coaster of cancer that we had

637
00:35:04,060 --> 00:35:05,140
not traveled through.

638
00:35:05,140 --> 00:35:08,940
And it was it was definitely difficult.

639
00:35:08,940 --> 00:35:09,940
It was difficult.

640
00:35:09,940 --> 00:35:12,500
In the early days, his prognosis was not good.

641
00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:13,500
It was not.

642
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:14,500
He had stage four lymphoma.

643
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:16,860
So he had it in four of his organs.

644
00:35:16,860 --> 00:35:18,980
But then we had everyone telling us like, what's lymphoma?

645
00:35:18,980 --> 00:35:19,980
Lymphoma is fightable.

646
00:35:19,980 --> 00:35:20,980
You're going to be okay.

647
00:35:20,980 --> 00:35:22,940
And so by Christmas time, we thought we were out.

648
00:35:22,940 --> 00:35:24,620
We were, you know, out of the woods.

649
00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:25,860
We were good.

650
00:35:25,860 --> 00:35:32,020
And then in January, February, debilitating headaches and falling over and all sorts of

651
00:35:32,020 --> 00:35:33,180
other symptoms showed up.

652
00:35:33,180 --> 00:35:34,180
So I took him for an MRI.

653
00:35:34,180 --> 00:35:36,620
And it turns out that he had three lesions on his brain.

654
00:35:36,620 --> 00:35:41,420
The cancer had spread to his brain before the chemo had a chance to wipe it all out.

655
00:35:41,420 --> 00:35:47,780
So all of a sudden now it's a different hospital, a better hospital radiation, stronger chemo,

656
00:35:47,780 --> 00:35:48,780
all sorts of things.

657
00:35:48,780 --> 00:35:50,420
It was just crazy.

658
00:35:50,420 --> 00:35:54,580
And I'll tell you, Jody, that was probably the hardest part was like, okay, we're done.

659
00:35:54,580 --> 00:35:55,580
We've beat this.

660
00:35:55,580 --> 00:35:58,860
And it was just like the whole thing started over again.

661
00:35:58,860 --> 00:35:59,860
And it's tough.

662
00:35:59,860 --> 00:36:04,980
I mean, that's honestly probably the most frustrated and angriest that I had gotten

663
00:36:04,980 --> 00:36:09,540
with God about what we had been dealt was when the cancer spread to his brain.

664
00:36:09,540 --> 00:36:11,620
I was like, I can't do this anymore.

665
00:36:11,620 --> 00:36:15,780
You know, you just have those moments where you're like, I honestly I'm tapping out.

666
00:36:15,780 --> 00:36:16,780
I'm done.

667
00:36:16,780 --> 00:36:18,700
You have picked the wrong person to go through these trials.

668
00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:20,700
I cannot do this anymore.

669
00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:26,860
Well, I know that we were praying, people all over the country were praying and you

670
00:36:26,860 --> 00:36:33,700
know, you hear people who have a lot of support say, I could feel the prayers.

671
00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:36,180
I could really feel the prayers.

672
00:36:36,180 --> 00:36:41,220
Could you, could you feel the prayers or did you just, was it just an emotional encouragement

673
00:36:41,220 --> 00:36:42,220
that people were praying?

674
00:36:42,220 --> 00:36:46,940
Honestly, yeah, I don't know that I'm one of those people that can like necessarily

675
00:36:46,940 --> 00:36:48,660
quote unquote, feel the prayers.

676
00:36:48,660 --> 00:36:53,380
But I'll tell you, I definitely felt the support and the presence of people in our

677
00:36:53,380 --> 00:36:59,260
lives that were upholding us and doing very seemingly practical things meant a lot.

678
00:36:59,260 --> 00:37:03,060
At that time, we had a lot of people bringing us, you know, meals and things like people

679
00:37:03,060 --> 00:37:07,980
do when you're going through something and just encouragement and all sorts of things

680
00:37:07,980 --> 00:37:09,980
just really made a big difference.

681
00:37:09,980 --> 00:37:12,600
And I really, you know, I really think God works that way.

682
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,700
God works through tangible things and God works through the kindness of people in your

683
00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:21,420
life and just the things that seem practical are often a lot more spiritual than we think

684
00:37:21,420 --> 00:37:22,420
they are.

685
00:37:22,420 --> 00:37:24,220
That really helped us and held us up.

686
00:37:24,220 --> 00:37:29,360
And then of course, you know, we're going through the radiation and impending transplant

687
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,580
in the fall while, and then COVID swings into action in March of 2020.

688
00:37:33,580 --> 00:37:37,060
So often Josh was in the hospital and we couldn't be there with him.

689
00:37:37,060 --> 00:37:39,420
And we all remember what that was like.

690
00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:40,820
It was a pretty crazy time.

691
00:37:40,820 --> 00:37:44,940
COVID was a pretty crazy time to be walking someone through cancer treatment, I will say

692
00:37:44,940 --> 00:37:45,940
that.

693
00:37:45,940 --> 00:37:47,780
So how did God intervene on your behalf?

694
00:37:47,780 --> 00:37:50,700
I mean, you were at a point of saying, no, God, no more.

695
00:37:50,700 --> 00:37:51,700
Yeah, I'm like, I'm out.

696
00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:52,700
I'm tapping out.

697
00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:53,700
Where did that come from?

698
00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:54,700
What happened?

699
00:37:54,700 --> 00:37:59,740
One thing that was really, I think, miraculous, number one, again, another thing I really

700
00:37:59,740 --> 00:38:03,500
love about living in Baltimore is we have really fantastic healthcare.

701
00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:07,700
And we were being seen, Josh was being seen at the University of Maryland Medical Center.

702
00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:14,500
And the liaison with whom he was working told us about a pretty brand new transplant procedure

703
00:38:14,500 --> 00:38:19,500
that was being done with a high success rate and said, you know, he would be a good candidate

704
00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:21,700
for this because of the type of cancer he has.

705
00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:25,500
I mean, this thing has only been approved by the FDA for a handful of years.

706
00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:26,820
It's not terribly old.

707
00:38:26,820 --> 00:38:32,220
But to be in a place to have the right people say, we're going to be able to do this treatment,

708
00:38:32,220 --> 00:38:36,580
you know, his insurance is going to cover it, which, you know, that's a burden as well.

709
00:38:36,580 --> 00:38:38,860
You're wondering how all that's going to happen.

710
00:38:38,860 --> 00:38:45,100
He was able to have this CAR T cell transplant in October of 2020.

711
00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:48,260
I won't go into all the details, but I would encourage anyone listening to look it up because

712
00:38:48,260 --> 00:38:50,700
it's pretty miraculous what it does.

713
00:38:50,700 --> 00:38:57,060
But basically, it puts beacons on your T cells and turns your body into its own cancer fighting

714
00:38:57,060 --> 00:38:58,060
machine.

715
00:38:58,060 --> 00:38:59,980
I mean, it's really pretty incredible.

716
00:38:59,980 --> 00:39:04,300
And so to be in the place and time where God had given these doctors wisdom and to be able

717
00:39:04,300 --> 00:39:09,300
to take it, you know, to be able to partake in that sort of groundbreaking medical thing

718
00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:13,980
that, you know, I believe God used that to save Josh's life because he has been in remission

719
00:39:13,980 --> 00:39:16,300
since December of 2020.

720
00:39:16,300 --> 00:39:21,040
And we are so grateful because it was, you know, there was some scary, scary moments

721
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,040
in there.

722
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,040
That's about a year and a half ago.

723
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:30,580
And I mean, I can't I can't imagine the flood of relief that news brought to you, even after

724
00:39:30,580 --> 00:39:31,580
good news like that.

725
00:39:31,580 --> 00:39:34,660
But it takes a little while for the heart to catch up with the head.

726
00:39:34,660 --> 00:39:35,660
Absolutely.

727
00:39:35,660 --> 00:39:38,380
What was your experience?

728
00:39:38,380 --> 00:39:42,260
You know, relief because that's when he when he told us the day that we got word that he

729
00:39:42,260 --> 00:39:43,260
was in remission.

730
00:39:43,260 --> 00:39:44,260
It was in December.

731
00:39:44,260 --> 00:39:47,540
And we were very relieved because we knew that that was the first possible time that

732
00:39:47,540 --> 00:39:49,620
they could say the word remission.

733
00:39:49,620 --> 00:39:53,120
And we were fortunate to be able to receive that news.

734
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,460
And then he, you know, still continues to go in for somewhat regular checkups.

735
00:39:57,460 --> 00:40:00,340
And there's always this, you know, there's always this fear.

736
00:40:00,340 --> 00:40:02,960
There's always this, you know, apprehension, what if it comes back?

737
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,880
But we just choose to know that we're never going to know how God works.

738
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,060
And we walk it out one day at a time.

739
00:40:09,060 --> 00:40:14,380
And we continue to cling to each other and hold each other up and love each other well

740
00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:18,220
and all of that and just trust that whatever God's plan is, he's got a plan.

741
00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:21,380
And he's got that's as simple as I can make it some days.

742
00:40:21,380 --> 00:40:25,600
Well, you mentioned that, you know, some people said some really wonderful things to you.

743
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,500
Some people said some things that weren't so really wonderful to you.

744
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:31,300
Realizing everybody deals with grief differently.

745
00:40:31,300 --> 00:40:32,300
Sure.

746
00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:35,020
You've experienced a couple different kinds of real struggles.

747
00:40:35,020 --> 00:40:41,020
What are some of the dos and don'ts for those who have a friend experiencing loss or prolonged

748
00:40:41,020 --> 00:40:42,020
health crisis?

749
00:40:42,020 --> 00:40:43,860
I mean, what's helpful and what really isn't?

750
00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:48,180
Of course, you want to avoid saying the cliché, like telling them everything's going to be

751
00:40:48,180 --> 00:40:49,180
OK.

752
00:40:49,180 --> 00:40:52,580
It's like, OK, they probably know that, but that's not, you know, it could always be worse.

753
00:40:52,580 --> 00:40:55,060
Just avoid any clichés.

754
00:40:55,060 --> 00:40:57,180
They're clichés for a reason.

755
00:40:57,180 --> 00:41:03,180
But I would just say to be there and to do tangible things, you know, look at the real

756
00:41:03,180 --> 00:41:10,060
needs and get creative and figure out what can you do to lighten their load that particular

757
00:41:10,060 --> 00:41:14,700
day, you know, bring them something that's their favorite, come over and plant some flowers

758
00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:15,700
in their garden.

759
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:20,680
But I had to just had a lot of people do like a lot of really seemingly simple, practical

760
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:25,340
things for me that meant a whole lot, just so that I knew people were thinking about

761
00:41:25,340 --> 00:41:26,340
me.

762
00:41:26,340 --> 00:41:30,260
And as far as it goes with Caleb, I really love when someone shares with me a memory

763
00:41:30,260 --> 00:41:34,620
of him that they've had that he's been gone for so long now.

764
00:41:34,620 --> 00:41:39,000
But when someone shares a memory or something I've never heard before about him or pictures

765
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,980
I've never seen every once in a while, someone will send me a picture that I've never seen

766
00:41:41,980 --> 00:41:42,980
of him before.

767
00:41:42,980 --> 00:41:44,740
And like those kind of things are special.

768
00:41:44,740 --> 00:41:51,560
So, so, you know, go the extra mile and inconvenience yourself enough to think like what would really

769
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,500
make a difference in that person's day and just try to do something.

770
00:41:55,500 --> 00:41:57,300
Yeah, that's good.

771
00:41:57,300 --> 00:42:02,540
Oftentimes we want to say the right thing, but there's almost no right thing to say.

772
00:42:02,540 --> 00:42:06,500
Yeah, the Holy Spirit is really giving you something timely.

773
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:09,500
And even saying I don't know what to say is okay.

774
00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:15,380
Even saying, you know, I, I really don't know what to say, but I just want to, you know,

775
00:42:15,380 --> 00:42:19,060
want to sit here with you and hold your hand until, you know, it doesn't hurt quite as

776
00:42:19,060 --> 00:42:20,060
bad.

777
00:42:20,060 --> 00:42:21,060
So yeah.

778
00:42:21,060 --> 00:42:27,180
Isaiah 58 talks about, you know, for those who give themselves for the hungry, for those

779
00:42:27,180 --> 00:42:32,180
who help the needy, their healing will come.

780
00:42:32,180 --> 00:42:35,900
And I think of that as you were telling me, you're, you know, telling the story about

781
00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:41,540
Josh in particular, I was thinking of that Isaiah 58 promise because you and Matt and

782
00:42:41,540 --> 00:42:50,180
your whole family have poured out your lives for those who really have great spiritual

783
00:42:50,180 --> 00:42:54,380
but also physical and financial need.

784
00:42:54,380 --> 00:43:01,780
And God has seen that and brought that healing to Josh, you know, in a remarkable way, as

785
00:43:01,780 --> 00:43:02,940
you said, miraculous.

786
00:43:02,940 --> 00:43:08,180
It's miraculous what medical science can, you know, medical, medical science, but you

787
00:43:08,180 --> 00:43:13,540
know, medical spirits or spiritually what got the wisdom God has given the medical community.

788
00:43:13,540 --> 00:43:16,860
You know, too, it's interesting, Jodi, and I just warn you, I probably will get a little

789
00:43:16,860 --> 00:43:21,340
choked up when I talk about, I tend to when I talk about Josh's involvement.

790
00:43:21,340 --> 00:43:24,340
You know, as I mentioned, when we lost Caleb, Josh was in the accident as well.

791
00:43:24,340 --> 00:43:27,820
He was in the car and he survived and his brother didn't.

792
00:43:27,820 --> 00:43:33,100
And that's, you know, especially when you're 11, you don't quite understand why that happened.

793
00:43:33,100 --> 00:43:38,100
And he came to a point where he told us, even at the age of 11 turning 12 years old, where

794
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:44,060
he said, I'm sad I lost my brother, but I know God, I know God spared me for a reason.

795
00:43:44,060 --> 00:43:49,500
And then to watch him, you know, 15 years later have to literally fight for his own

796
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:54,160
life because again, he goes back to that truth that God saved him for a reason.

797
00:43:54,160 --> 00:44:00,180
And I think somewhere in there, I think that was so ingrained in him at that age, that

798
00:44:00,180 --> 00:44:06,800
is probably something that helped his fight in getting through the cancer and working

799
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,500
through his medical stuff too.

800
00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:13,740
And you know, I don't want to tell Josh's story, but, but I can imagine that that's

801
00:44:13,740 --> 00:44:19,060
something that just, it just attached itself so much to his DNA at that time in his life

802
00:44:19,060 --> 00:44:22,220
that it was probably part of why he fought as hard as he did.

803
00:44:22,220 --> 00:44:23,220
Yeah.

804
00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:24,220
Well, I mean, you're his mom.

805
00:44:24,220 --> 00:44:26,340
You observed, moms know what's going on.

806
00:44:26,340 --> 00:44:30,220
I mean, you know, the Lord gave you that insight and I'm sure that's true.

807
00:44:30,220 --> 00:44:40,140
I mean, God gave him that revelation for this time and other times.

808
00:44:40,140 --> 00:44:42,100
That revelation isn't just for one time.

809
00:44:42,100 --> 00:44:45,100
It's for a lifetime.

810
00:44:45,100 --> 00:44:49,460
So what are the foundational principles or truths that God placed in you that helped

811
00:44:49,460 --> 00:44:52,140
you through all of these ups and downs?

812
00:44:52,140 --> 00:44:55,660
I mean, you've had some wonderful times in your life as well.

813
00:44:55,660 --> 00:44:58,100
It hasn't all been struggles.

814
00:44:58,100 --> 00:45:03,380
No, but definitely a fair share of struggles as well.

815
00:45:03,380 --> 00:45:07,780
We're sharing the struggles today to help others, but you've had some great times too.

816
00:45:07,780 --> 00:45:10,180
But what are those foundational things?

817
00:45:10,180 --> 00:45:15,060
We even hear people say, again, Jodie, I'm just going to keep going back to, I'm not

818
00:45:15,060 --> 00:45:16,860
going to know what I'm not going to know.

819
00:45:16,860 --> 00:45:20,980
And you know, people ask, why do good things, why do bad things happen to good people?

820
00:45:20,980 --> 00:45:21,980
I don't know.

821
00:45:21,980 --> 00:45:23,980
I don't know why.

822
00:45:23,980 --> 00:45:26,900
And you just continue to walk it out one day at a time.

823
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:30,180
And again, just know that his ways are higher than your ways and his thoughts are higher

824
00:45:30,180 --> 00:45:31,180
than your thoughts.

825
00:45:31,180 --> 00:45:33,600
And they are just things you're never going to know.

826
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,860
And somewhere deep inside that has to be okay.

827
00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:40,260
Because if it's not, you're probably going to drive yourself crazy.

828
00:45:40,260 --> 00:45:43,460
So it just has to be, it has to be okay.

829
00:45:43,460 --> 00:45:47,060
And every morning when the sun comes up and every morning when you open your eyes and

830
00:45:47,060 --> 00:45:50,060
your feet at the floor, it's a good day.

831
00:45:50,060 --> 00:45:51,260
It's a blessing.

832
00:45:51,260 --> 00:45:55,900
We get to have another day in the adventure that he's written for us.

833
00:45:55,900 --> 00:46:01,820
And it's, that's why I want to spend so much of my time, you know, laughing and being positive

834
00:46:01,820 --> 00:46:04,800
because there's plenty to gripe about.

835
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,760
There's plenty of things that you can just hold up and complain.

836
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:14,060
But it's just so much more fulfilling when we can constantly look for the positive and

837
00:46:14,060 --> 00:46:16,740
the lessons and continue to grow from that.

838
00:46:16,740 --> 00:46:21,500
Yeah, gratitude and thankfulness really changes our perspective when we look at everything

839
00:46:21,500 --> 00:46:26,220
as a blessing and are thankful for even the ordinary days, as you said.

840
00:46:26,220 --> 00:46:28,460
And there's magic moments in those ordinary days too.

841
00:46:28,460 --> 00:46:32,780
There is, there's wonder and there's perfect things that happen if you just pay attention.

842
00:46:32,780 --> 00:46:38,140
So as we wrap up this episode, I'd like to ask, is there a woman in the Bible whose story

843
00:46:38,140 --> 00:46:43,940
inspired or encouraged or taught you something during all these years and how does your story

844
00:46:43,940 --> 00:46:45,140
relate to hers?

845
00:46:45,140 --> 00:46:49,020
One woman in the Bible that I've always been pretty fascinated with is the woman with the

846
00:46:49,020 --> 00:46:55,860
issue of blood who was pursuant of Jesus and how she just decided that nothing was going

847
00:46:55,860 --> 00:47:01,860
to keep her from the presence of Jesus, which meant touching the hem of his garment.

848
00:47:01,860 --> 00:47:09,660
So just getting a little bit of an inch or two of that fabric was what she knew was going

849
00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:13,700
to unleash the blessings that she needed in her life.

850
00:47:13,700 --> 00:47:21,820
Actually it seems like forever ago in 2006, I released a solo project, a CD, and one of

851
00:47:21,820 --> 00:47:26,220
the songs that I wrote on that CD, and I didn't write very many of them, but one of them was

852
00:47:26,220 --> 00:47:28,420
actually it contained that story.

853
00:47:28,420 --> 00:47:34,820
So it was just to get closer and just to get that touch and just to keep a grip on what

854
00:47:34,820 --> 00:47:39,740
you know that God is doing and to be pursuant of that, I think is really just says a lot

855
00:47:39,740 --> 00:47:43,020
that tenacity and that willingness not to give up.

856
00:47:43,020 --> 00:47:48,740
Katie, your story reminds me of verse 10 in Isaiah 35 as well, and that says in the New

857
00:47:48,740 --> 00:47:53,440
Living Test translation, those who've been ransomed by the Lord will return.

858
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:58,700
They will enter Jerusalem singing crowned with everlasting joy.

859
00:47:58,700 --> 00:48:04,940
Sorrow and mourning will disappear and they will be filled with joy and gladness.

860
00:48:04,940 --> 00:48:09,500
God restored joy to Katie and filled her life with song again after the loss of her son

861
00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:12,380
and again through Josh's battle with cancer.

862
00:48:12,380 --> 00:48:18,860
Psalm 30 verse 5b says that weeping will last for the night, but joy comes with the morning.

863
00:48:18,860 --> 00:48:22,940
Through the last few years, as we've mentioned a couple times, so many people, maybe even

864
00:48:22,940 --> 00:48:27,940
two, have suffered a loss and it could be a physical death of a loved one, a loss of

865
00:48:27,940 --> 00:48:31,540
a job or a relationship or a dream.

866
00:48:31,540 --> 00:48:38,380
It could be a long-term struggle that didn't even end in death, but that still can sap

867
00:48:38,380 --> 00:48:39,380
your joy.

868
00:48:39,380 --> 00:48:45,300
God says there's a time to mourn, but God also wants to bring us back to that place

869
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:46,460
of joy.

870
00:48:46,460 --> 00:48:53,540
King David knew about that and in Psalm 51 he asked the Lord to restore the joy of his

871
00:48:53,540 --> 00:48:54,540
salvation.

872
00:48:54,540 --> 00:48:56,160
God can do the same for you.

873
00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:00,860
If you've lost it, if you feel like you're missing that joy, God wants to restore that

874
00:49:00,860 --> 00:49:01,920
to you.

875
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,540
It may not come overnight, sometimes it might, but he will restore it.

876
00:49:05,540 --> 00:49:10,020
Katie, would you take a moment and pray for everyone who listens to your amazing God story,

877
00:49:10,020 --> 00:49:13,060
especially those who really need their joy restored?

878
00:49:13,060 --> 00:49:18,420
Lord, we just thank you for this opportunity to be together today, this moment in time,

879
00:49:18,420 --> 00:49:22,660
and I thank you that each person listening, God, that it's not by mistake that you have

880
00:49:22,660 --> 00:49:23,660
a purpose.

881
00:49:23,660 --> 00:49:30,500
I know that you have a purpose and a plan for each person listening.

882
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:34,780
The days get long and the days get really difficult sometimes, but God, we know that

883
00:49:34,780 --> 00:49:39,700
you have just planted these perfect moments of joy.

884
00:49:39,700 --> 00:49:42,860
If we're just paying attention and if we're choosing to focus on you, God, that you can

885
00:49:42,860 --> 00:49:44,380
turn things around for us.

886
00:49:44,380 --> 00:49:49,580
God, I just pray today that whatever happens to be blocking each person's son in their

887
00:49:49,580 --> 00:49:54,380
life, God, that you would just let them know that even though it might be dark, that you're

888
00:49:54,380 --> 00:49:56,980
holding their hand, God, that you're going to send people to hold their hand.

889
00:49:56,980 --> 00:50:01,860
You're going to send tangible reminders of who you are through relationships and through

890
00:50:01,860 --> 00:50:04,420
people and through joy and laughter.

891
00:50:04,420 --> 00:50:10,460
I just believe, God, that each one of us can walk into the wonder and the amazing plans

892
00:50:10,460 --> 00:50:13,420
that you have for us if we just continue to keep our eyes on you, God.

893
00:50:13,420 --> 00:50:17,660
I just pray for each person out there, Lord, that they would be able to find that joy.

894
00:50:17,660 --> 00:50:21,300
They would be able to be grateful for each day when they open their eyes and put their

895
00:50:21,300 --> 00:50:22,300
feet on the floor.

896
00:50:22,300 --> 00:50:28,380
Just continue, Lord, to mold their circumstances and to just keep your hand on them.

897
00:50:28,380 --> 00:50:32,340
We'll just continue to give you the glory and to thank you for everything that you're

898
00:50:32,340 --> 00:50:33,820
doing, Lord, in Jesus' name.

899
00:50:33,820 --> 00:50:34,820
Thanks for tuning in.

900
00:50:34,820 --> 00:50:39,060
Remember to like or subscribe to Her God's Story so you don't miss an episode.

901
00:50:39,060 --> 00:50:41,940
Check out our website at hergodstory.org.

902
00:50:41,940 --> 00:50:47,940
There you can find our show notes with scriptures, a link to Katie's songs, and other information

903
00:50:47,940 --> 00:50:49,080
we talked about.

904
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:53,300
You can sign up for periodic emails, get a free download of a devotional book.

905
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:57,700
I also encourage you to listen to our other ministry podcast, A Word in Season with Doug

906
00:50:57,700 --> 00:51:02,300
Stringer and Friends, where you can hear teaching that will challenge you as well as interviews

907
00:51:02,300 --> 00:51:04,820
with Christian leaders that will inspire you.

908
00:51:04,820 --> 00:51:10,540
And now, dear friends, I leave you with a blessing from Psalm 90 verse 14.

909
00:51:10,540 --> 00:51:17,060
May you be satisfied each morning with God's unfailing love so you may sing for joy and

910
00:51:17,060 --> 00:51:19,340
be glad all your days.

911
00:51:19,340 --> 00:51:23,380
Her God's Story is a ministry of Somebody Cares America and international.

912
00:51:23,380 --> 00:51:33,420
To find out more about or support the ministry, go to somebodycares.org.