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Dec. 5, 2023
"The Overlooked Ingredients in Leadership: w/ Sherman Dumas" S4 Ep24
Leadership is a multifaceted concept that encompasses the ability to guide, influence, and inspire others toward a common goal or vision. Leadership involves various skills, traits, and behaviors that individuals employ to effectively lead and manage a people...and on top of that 'Spiritual Leadership' is even more crucial and challenging in this hour.
The major crisis of our day is the crisis of leadership and without godly leadership, there is a scattering that will leave a void that darkness fills.
In this episode of KEEP IT 100, we have a deep, forthright and profound conversation with church planter, author and prophetic leader Sherman Dumas.
Website: www.seanandchristasmith.com
Facebook: @seanandchristasmithministries
Instagram: @revseansmith @mrschristasmith
Twitter: @revseansmith
YouTube: @seanandchristasmithministries
Transcript
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Welcome to Keep It 100 podcast with Sean and Christa Smith. Join us in the space where we take on real issues with real insight, real inspiration.
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This podcast is for those not looking for temporary relief to change circumstance, but revelation to forever change lives.
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Keep it 100!
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Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Keep It 100. We're so excited to be with the Keep It 100 tribe for another episode.
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What's good everybody?
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You know, we have had such an incredible year of 2023 and I know so many of our Keep It 100 tribe have felt the same.
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We have seen God move really powerfully.
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And as we wrap up this year, we're really reflecting on what God has spoken prophetically over the momentum movement as we're preparing and gearing up for our January 18th to the 20th momentum conference.
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You know, we had at our last momentum night of 2023, we brought up Jeremiah Johnson.
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And you remember this baby? He prophesied an incredible word about raising up a Gideon's army and we're so expectant on what God's going to do not only here in the bay,
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but for all of you that are going to gather in January with us because we believe there's a portion for everyone that's in the room because we really believe momentum is a catalytic meant that propels and imparts into people and move God.
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You know, you made a great point. Jeremiah's word was just really profound. It just run true to all of us there.
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He not only talked about Gideon's army, but he also talked about God lifting dismay off the bay.
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And we're really excited about gathering everyone from momentum 2024, January 18th to 20th.
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You guys can go to our website, seanandchristasmith.com.
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We're really excited about gathering people to come to the Bay Area because it is part of rewriting the narrative of the Bay.
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But at the same time, we also, when we're with the prophets gathering with Cindy Jacobs, a number of the generals and prophets prophesied, including one of the generals, James Gall prophesied over us.
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During a made session, just about God releasing fire in the Bay Area.
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And we believe if you come, you're going to receive that impartation of fire and you're going to carry that back.
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And we're actually praying and asking God, we say, boo, that we don't want this just to be a conference.
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We know for a lot of people, that's the reference point. You know, it is a gathering and you want to get in the room, but we're really believing this is going to be a flashpoint.
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This is going to be an encounter space.
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We're going to have extended worship. We're releasing. We're bringing the prophets. We're asking them to prophesy and preach the word unadulterated, unfiltered.
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Just go for it. We're going to have long times of alter call. People are going to be prophesied of what people are going to be delivered. People are going to be healed.
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We're going to lay hands on people. So it's not one of those conferences where you're going to get a lecture, take some notes and go get, you know, your taco from the taco truck.
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We are going to go in and we're excited about that.
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We really are. What we saw God do last year was absolutely unprecedented and incredible. It really blew our minds.
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I truly felt changed from the deposit and the weighty presence of God in the room truly to date.
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I don't know if I've ever been a part of a gathering of such tangible presence of God. I'm so expectant as we gather once again in January.
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If God did that last year and we've seen such an uptick of his presence and we're bringing really powerful bull that carry such a now portion of what God is saying, but also what they're releasing.
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It's truly going to profound and we're having one of those people that are a speaker at momentum on the episode today because some of you may know him and you already know why we love him so much.
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But for some of you, you don't even know who Sherman misses. Let me tell you, you're going to love this man of God.
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And I want to simply say this. Sherman gave me one of the most profound personal prophetic words I've ever received to date.
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And the truth is, I know many people that would say the same. So I love his accuracy. I love his tenderness and the prophetic.
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He really carries the now word of the Lord and that's who we're bringing to momentum. We're not bringing to momentum people that are cookie cutter messages and they're just bringing their best word that really hypes people up.
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We're asking them, we don't care if it's polished. We just want the word of the Lord. We want the presence of God and our only agenda is Jesus truly.
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And all we want to do is be in his presence because we know that when we're in his presence, late friends, that is when everything changes, when everything's possible.
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That's when we're transformed. That's when the breakthroughs happen is his presence.
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So we just simply want a place of no interruption where we turn off our phones, we get off our screens, disconnect and we actually connect with the spirit and the presence of the Lord.
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Yes. And so we're going to jump into this interview. You're going to certainly enjoy it. We're Sherman Dumas.
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And again, don't miss this opportunity. Go online and sign up now because once you hear this phenomenal brothers, just thoughts on leadership, really current authentic leadership that comes from the heart, you're going to want to sign up for it.
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So again, we're going to talk 2024, January 18th and 19th. Let's jump in this interview right now with Sherman Dumas.
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Hey, keep it 100 tried. I got one of my just the absolute best on here. This is one of my favorite bros to get around and talk to.
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He is a church planner. He is a pastor. He is an itinerant. He is an author. He is a communicator, a forward thinking brother, hits the nations, influenced people in multiple nations.
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My good friend, Sherman Dumas, what's going on, bro?
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Hey man, I'm so happy to be with you today.
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Oh man, it's a blessing to have you on and dude, we just saw each other at the global prophetic. So I forget all the acronyms mama Cindy Jakers has.
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It was so good to run into you here man.
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Absolutely. Absolutely. Whenever the process get together, there's always fun to have.
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Hey facts man, 100% agree with that.
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Well, hey man, I am so excited. You've written a book on leadership. I was doing a little bit of research. I didn't even know that man. Tell us about that.
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Yeah, so I wrote a book called Secrets, Lies and Leadership. And so the book was actually going through some of the pitfalls, taking case studies of people who have been in leadership.
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Some of the things that maybe unfortunately maybe they had some kind of scandal or something happened.
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So we actually go through and we evaluate what are some of the things that could have been done differently?
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What are some of the things that the scriptures say concerning leadership to make sure that we can learn from some of the stuff that's happened and not find ourselves in the same place.
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So yeah, we had fun with that.
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Oh man, I love that man. I think you know you read in the scripture man, when the Bible's described leaders, it talks about what they do, but it seems like there's more of an emphasis on why they do what they do and how they did it.
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And man, I just love that book. So here we go. First question. Hey, we love to start off with this on the Keeper 100 podcast.
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Hey man, give us your origin story, like some way in which God initially marked you and man, roll with it also as to what first marked you to aspire for leadership.
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Absolutely. So I grew up in the church. I grew up in this denomination actually called the church of God and cracks.
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So I grew up in it and God saved somewhere around the age of 12 years old, but I was struggling really strongly with suicide.
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It was literally ravishing my life and no one knew it. I was as a kid, I was serving my pastor. I was really well connected with the leadership church.
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No one knew I was struggling with it, but it was connected to my father not being a part of my journey.
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And I had this idea that if my dad didn't want me, why would anybody else want me? And so I literally tried to take my life through cutting, really tried to cut my risk and take my life.
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And I'll never forget that after the last time of doing that, it was in 1997. I was in a worship experience.
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And even though we were in this main line Pentecostal denomination, our church that both my wife and I grew up in was very progressive, was very progressive.
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They always were crossing streams and having people from all kinds of places and they had this guy there that night by the name of Kim Clemens.
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And of course, you know who Kim is and Kim's going on to be with the Lord.
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But Kim that night picked me out of the audience and began to minister the word Lord to me and began to tell me about much of what I'm living out and doing right now.
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I ministered my life. I mean, just laid it out.
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And that night, the power of sub aside was broken off of me. And even without me fully understanding my call to the prophetic that night I made a decision.
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I want to do what he just did for me by allowing the Lord to use him to as many people as I possibly can around the world.
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And so that kind of started my journey of seeking out God and wanting to not just hear his voice, but to be an expression of his voice in the earth and to minister to as many people as we possibly could.
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Amen. And I could vouch for you Sherman.
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Seriously, I know probably about at least three or four mutual friends of ours that I would say are love our generals are next level generals that you have had a prophetic word for them that is like mark their life.
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Like they're ball in their weeping. It's a restorative word.
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So you've done that. And I love that dynamic bro of how God exposes us to what it is that he's calling us to do, man.
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And I think that modeling is just so important because a first of all, if you don't know what's available, you want to aspire for right exactly exactly.
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And man, just done that. Go ahead, bro.
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And I was saying it does something like what if you don't know that it's a thing you don't know that it's even something I tell people all the time like sometimes people are hungry and don't know they're hungry, they're thirsty and they don't know they're thirsty.
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It's like you get into an atmosphere and you get into a certain surrounding and you're like, wait, that's possible. And you get the opportunity when you're exposed to it to run into it and to operate in it.
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So yeah.
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Oh man. And that's so true, man. Now, that really is it kind of like that place that marked you what as you would kind of continue that journey Sherman what caused you to aspire for leadership, you know, because a lot of times I mean you're you're you're in the office of a prophet,
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but you also are apostolic and you're pastoral, you're you're evangelist, you're you're walking in that five fold. But what all of us are called, obviously, but what caused you to aspire towards ecclesiastical or what we would maybe say a vocational leadership in the church.
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Yeah. So I watched a lot. It's gonna be interesting. I watched a lot when I was growing up. I mean, I saw a lot positive, but then I saw a lot of negative.
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I actually tell people and this is a little risque, but I learned my best sin in the church. And so when I was growing up. And so I saw a lot and really part of me was like, as I'm studying the scriptures and I'm seeing what I'm seeing, I'm like, there has to be more and there has to be this opportunity to really look at character
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and operate from that place other than just gifts. And so I think as the Lord was taking me on this journey of both and like fruit of the spirit and gifts of the spirit, right. And so both in and operating. And I felt like I had the responsibility to walk out what I was seeing in the scripture that unfortunately differed a lot of what I was seeing around me.
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And to be able to bring other people into an opportunity as well to be able to say, hey, yeah, I'm going to walk out all the Holy Spirit wants to do in my life, but I'm going to do it with allowing for my character to be formed and have the fruit of the spirit formed on the inside of me.
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So that kind of drove me to this place to say yes to this massive call that I felt like, you know, the Lord was calling.
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You know, as a kid, I used to play with magnets and then, you know, if you have the likes sides, I think, or maybe I'm the wrong, maybe it's opposite sides, the magnets attract, but if you flip it, the magnets repel.
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I think many times God directs us towards our call by both those things you're describing. You see some great examples and you're drawn towards that, that's something you want to do. And then you see some bad examples.
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And, you know, even our last podcast, we entitled it how the mighty has fallen and how to deal with moral failure. And it's tragic, but you know, it's something that throughout my years of being a Christian throughout my years of being in church that has happened.
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And you have to be able to help people navigate because as leaders, as part of what we do, right, we have to help get the sheet from A to Z and self leadership is the foundation for all other leadership.
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So you can't lead yourself, man, you know, something happens. So that kind of leads me to a next question, man, because I'm a watcher myself and I watch you and the way you carry yourself, the way your wife carries yourself.
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I've seen you navigate some tough situations. I've seen you challenge some handle some ongoing tough situations as a leader and it's, I look at you and go, wow, you know, lesser people with lesser care going crack underneath that pressure.
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Let me ask you this, bro, how do you define leadership and with along with that Sherman, what are the most important qualities of a good leader. So how do you define leadership? What are the most important qualities?
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That's a great question. I would define leadership as like positioning yourself to be that model that others are able to follow towards maturity.
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And so, you know, that may look like it on many different levels. It could be spiritual, but it could be natural. You could be, you know, obviously a business leader that's leading people towards maturity and business and maturity and whatever it is, causing for people to grow and to develop.
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I think there's real leadership. People call themselves leaders all the time and nobody's nobody's following you. We know we heard that said before you're not really leading anybody. It's just a title kind of thing.
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And so I think that's important. When I think about qualities of leaders, I think one of the key things, of course, is for every leader to be teachable.
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And when I say that, I mean that I believe that every leader needs to position themselves in submission to other leaders. Like if a leader doesn't have a leader, that's a problem because there is no place in the kingdom that we arrive to where we're just like, OK, no, I no longer need leadership anymore.
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I no longer need mentors. I no need safe places to be able to put my soul in my heart in. And so I think being teachable is a great sign of a leader.
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But then also it's important to be vulnerable, right? And so that's not easy for leaders because we have to find the safe places.
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We're the safe places that we can be open about where we are. But when you are vulnerable with the people that God has released to you to be mentors to you, people at peer level, it creates this opportunity for you to not feel like you have to be alone in leadership.
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For years, I thought the concept was it's lonely at the top because people would say that all the time. And so I was kind of being reared in that concept.
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And the truth is, it doesn't have to be that way. You can build community. You can connect with people that can help you in your leadership development.
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And you don't have to be alone or away from community in that. So, of course, again, really going from the place of making sure that we're operating vulnerable and then pulling ourselves into a place of being able to communicate well,
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vision casting well. I think if any leader is going to lead anyone anywhere, they have to give a captivating vision.
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They have to be able to share something with people that can move them from one place to the next.
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Oh, I love that, bro. And it's so true. And, you know, I love what you said. You know, we can't be alone because I think we've seen leaders lose themselves, lose their families, lose their integrity,
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lose a lot of things because they, I kind of find out it's not so much failure that takes folks out. It's success that takes folks out.
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A lot of leaders begin to get that success and it's like that initial hunger. And I love what you said. We see it in the church. We see it in business sector.
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We see it in people. I kind of pay attention to sports. You see it in coaches. You see it in across the sphere.
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And I love what you said because I think a leadership, you said, hey, if no one's following you, I mean, you're taking a walk. You're not a leader.
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And I think leaders cause the vacuum to be met and met is like an acronym for me. And you actually mentioned M, maturity.
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You know, leaders lead folks to maturity. E is enlargement. I think when you're under a leader, there ought to be, you know, I mean, fruit.
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The Bible talks about that if you're the vine that God blesses, you bear fruit. Right. And so there should be enlargement in terms of the overall vision, in terms of the kingdom, in terms of that individual's life.
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And then the T of met is transformation is God brings, you know, transformation. I noticed just by watching, because man, you've church planned, you went into other cities and church plant while living in another city.
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And I think that's what we're going to see right now in Dallas and in Southern California, both given leadership and apostolic oversight.
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Let me, this is something that is very difficult for a lot of people because I feel like we live in a day and age where we try to lead by consensus.
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And that can be very political, you know, the loudest voices that people with the most pool to people with the most money, the big tithers, people have been at the longest.
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But obviously the kingdom of God is going to let by consensus, you know, it's a theocracy. Leaders make tough decisions. Give us an example of a situation where you've had to make a tough decision, Shark.
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Yeah, that's a very good question. And so, you know, I could give you a whole bunch of experiences where I've had to do that.
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But I think as a leader, one of the hardest decisions I had to make was actually expanding to Texas from California. So both making that decision to operate in both of those places with the understanding that this was going to actually help those that were following my wife and I's leadership,
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that as we were expanding, it was going to cause for them to come to new levels of maturity, cause them to have to kind of grow up a little bit in some of the spaces that we might have had our hand in before.
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It was also going to give them the opportunity to, we mentioned this earlier, see what's possible, that you can do more than maybe what you had been seeing yourself as or what you thought could happen.
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And so making that decision was very difficult because in doing so, it would cause for some people that are connected to us to feel abandoned.
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So like, why are you moving to Texas? Oh, you don't love us anymore? Like, you know, all of those kind of conversations, you know, people, if they had internal situations of abandonment and rejection, then those things kind of spoke up.
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So part of that, that made it really difficult. And to be honest with you, it was probably one of the hardest decisions I had to make in leadership. But on the other side of it, partially on the other side of it, we're seeing people really come into new understanding of, hey, oh,
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well, I could, if they're doing that, then it's possible that I can do this and that, or I can do that and this, right? So this mentality that I don't have to be marked by just one particular thing, but there's several things that I can do.
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And I think sometimes people are kind of boxed in and feel like, hey, I can only operate like this. And sometimes the people around them will want them to say, just do this.
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But there's so much more to us. And so in us following the Lord and obeying him to be able to operate in several places, do several things at a time, allow for other people to be able to say, I can do this, I can move in this too.
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But that was probably the hardest decision because they didn't really believe it was for their benefit. They really thought it was just for mine. And some of them, but I think now they really wrap it.
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Man, and you're so right because when you make decisions that, actually, maybe the best way to describe it, when you make decisions that are contrary to people's expectations, you face something particularly as a spiritual leader.
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And my observation is that there's a lot of the tail wagging the dog, that they're leaders that literally they're allowing the loudest voices and the people around them. And you model something because you have and have had a successful ministry
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Southern California. My wife and I both came down there and spoke at your doctor jackets conference. Amazing, powerful. Like most people that I've observed, they work towards a comfort zone that you work, you plant your labor, you build, you born to people, you get it right.
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And then you just retire on the acre, right? But not you, man. You established it and then jump across halfway across the United States to put your hand in a very successful church, Trinity, obviously church there.
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I think it goes to this and maybe you can even speak to this. We're low off script right now, but I love that kind of stuff is leadership is about risk taking. Talk to us about that, man, because you've taken some risks, man.
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I mean, you, man, I'll let you tell the stories.
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If I was the if I was the really titled my life the last two and a half years, it was it would be titled risk, like just like risking it all just laying it all out on the table. I think it's necessary. Right. Yes, sir. Success is not found in the comfort zone is actually found in being uncomfortable.
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It's not found in being way feeling like stretch and I'm telling you my faith is never seen the level of depths and heights and widths that is seen until recently, you know, because it's like requires like God, I'm out here.
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And and and I'm totally depending on you. This is fresh. This is new.
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But I think it's then brings you into the next place. I really feel like in some ways in my life, I had gotten so you mentioned like we kind of start doing the things and then we get really good at it. And the Lord challenged me.
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He was like, you could do some of this stuff with your eyes closed. Like you could just do it and you just do it just doing it and it's not you haven't been stretched recently. And I was offended with the Lord. I was like, what do you mean? I haven't been stretched like I've been stretched.
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And he was like, no, not at the level that I want to stretch you, you know, and so taking risks will begin to stretch and expand your capacity. It will begin to stretch and expand your faith and allow for you to be able to say, oh, wait a minute, if I had just stayed in my comfort zone, I wouldn't have known that God could have done this through me, or this could have happened.
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And and I think as leaders in whatever capacity, family, ministry, church, you know, business, like our decisions are not just about us, right? Like that decision for me.
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It went far beyond what was possible for those that were following me in my ministry. It was about my five children. It was about my wife. Like I would never want to get to a place later on in life and then be like, what if what if I would have taken the risk and what if I would have gone and done it and what could have been possible.
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My children now, all five of them are growing in understanding of that crazy things can happen when you obey God and you follow him, even though it's extremely uncomfortable and it's very risky.
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Man, it's so true. You know, Jesus, I think about what you're saying. Jesus told the story of the of the talents and he says, you know, one guy was given five, two and other one given one. And the one guy buried his talent took no risk, did the same thing.
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I'm a buried over here and I'm going to dig it back up. So when you come back, I'll give you what you gave me. And it's interesting. It was two things that jumped out in the peril. Jesus said, it says, the guy says, I was afraid.
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And his thought was you're an exacting master. And I always feel like what short circuits or puts a wet blanket on our risk taking is that we think God is exacting, but we got to understand God is a risk taker.
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I mean, he set the kingdom and the future of the church in 12 people and one dude had to be replaced at the very end.
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And man, Peter just got finished denying Jesus three times. I mean, God is a risk taker. And you know, it's funny because I feel I mean, I couldn't I couldn't shout a man and give you 100% emojis enough on that one.
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I thought the Lord come to me at one point in time Sherman and say that I become domesticated and just like you, I kind of in my heart, I push back. I said, God, I preach open air.
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I've gone and witnessed the psychics in witchy cobbins. I'll, you know, wherever you tell me I'll go in the middle of, you know, Sapa Cisco and preach at Union Square or whatever.
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And I felt like Lord says, yeah, but you've done that. And what I what the Lord began to show me is what was cutting edge early on.
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If you occupy that space enough, it's not cutting edge. It's comfort zone now. Your cutting edge is in front of you. And I feel like there's a lot of people.
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And I think particularly in 2024, I think I kind of we hit upon a prophetic thing here. I feel like God is calling the body of Christ and us, you know, rank and file believers that we got to take some risks.
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Man, I think the whole COVID pandemic and obviously we don't want to talk about that anymore. We're tired of that. But I think we looked for comfort zones.
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We looked at there was such this kind of demand on us to adapt. And I think we ran through our adaptive, you know, psychological profiles and energies and energy.
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We went through that. And so I think we just look for things that we could rest in things that give us a semblance of the normality.
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And we're in a different season. And so some of the mindsets, mentalities that we develop that may even have gotten us through, you know, the 2020 to 2022, let's say season are going to be very unfriendly now because God's going to take risks in the midst of what's going on in the Middle East, Ukraine, inflation,
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crazy terrorism, not just on the Gaza Strip, but at malls and schools and churches here in America, the madness of what attacks a generation, your kids, my kids trying to hijack the narrative.
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And it's like as believers in the church, man, we got to be risk takers. And you, man, you, you model that couple, couple of years in this area, because I'm going to throw out some quick hitters on you.
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You and your wife are awesome at leveraging what I call digital influence. And I know this is off script. Any thoughts like anything in the area of how important do you think that whole, you know, obviously the rapid advancement of technology, social media and all that.
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How important is it for leaders to be impactful even in that area?
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Yeah, I think we got to definitely pay attention. You were talking to my remaining on the cutting edge and sometimes as believers, we are behind time or we wait to catch up. And I believe that there's no way that God wants for the world system to be able to be the forerunners in all of this.
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Like God is looking for believers to be those that push into these areas and not doing it necessarily with Christian needs. You know, it's not necessarily coming up with, you know, Jesus Christ, you know, social media or calling whatever you whatever the stuff, you know, Jesus Christ, AI or whatever it is, like naming it that kind of stuff.
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But I believe that God wants to give us innovative ways of thinking and operating and that there is a whole group of individuals that need to know that through the power of divine intelligence, God wants to raise up people who will begin to dive into the world of artificial intelligence, like to bring in his intelligence into that world.
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There is such a massive reach that God has for us out there and we've got to get rid of the fear of like, oh my God, is this the way that the devil is coming and is this how the entire crisis is going to enter into the world, you know, all of these kind of things.
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And we've got to take advantage. So you're talking AI, you're talking, you're talking moving, you know, even deeper into meta, you're moving deeper into, you know, social media. I think believers need to really wake up and allow that creativity.
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One idea could change the whole face of the world. We saw with Mark Zuckerberg, one idea that was born out of nothing. It wasn't positive. It was actually born out of his rage and his frustration that he birthed Facebook.
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And so imagine what a believer could do if they went and received divine intelligence and one idea came that could shift everything for all of us.
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Man, bro, what you said, as you were saying, I was thinking, I think we can point at anti, quote unquote, anti groups out there as being the major impediment to the advancement of Christianity.
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But I think what it is is hesitating, timid spiritual leadership that the enemy is kind of, you know, back in the hood, you draw the chicken line and you dare somebody across the chicken line.
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It's like the enemies drew the chicken line and we think we're just supposed to stare at a frame stained glass window buildings and just stay back and just kind of leave from that place of pulpit and all due respect to that.
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That's a venerated spot. But I love what you're saying. You're saying, no, no, no, no, we're supposed to disciple nations and you're all the nation.
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I don't know anybody at largest church in the world. I guess that would be Seoul, Korea, although there's some other churches getting there.
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Hey, all the world is not going to fit in one building. So right now, man, you, you know, you hold up your iPhone and you go, this is this emerging generation.
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For that matter, the people that populate the earth, this is their world, man. I just think it's so important. How about leadership?
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I'll talk about another front. How about leadership in the area of, you know, obviously there, the enemy wants to push an extreme so you'll throw out the balance.
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So obviously there's super woke ism that would be an extreme to what we would understand to be the plumb line of truth.
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But how about just leadership in the area of social justice and social consciousness? Because dude, you do that well.
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I'm glad we got you on the show. Talk to us a little bit about what do you feel like just as leaders and as people that are Christians.
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What is our responsibility in the area of social consciousness and social justice, particularly in the context of what we're seeing today?
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Yeah, I think it's extremely important. I think we have to really get a heart of the father. I think all of it has to be based towards the idea of operating and functioning in love.
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Right. And so anything that we're going to do in helping change the way culture is the direction culture is going to be able to answer some of the ills or the woes in society is going to demand that it's all driven by love.
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I think that's going to help us to make sure that as we are dealing with circumstances that we're not dealing with it out of our trauma, out of our own set of experiences that may be then driving us to want to do this or to fix this.
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But if we're doing it by the love of God, which when Jesus looked upon, you know, the masses, he was moved with compassion.
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Then miracles were able to happen, right?
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And so when we allow love to flow through us and answering some of these situations, then we can see miracles happen, things that people think cannot ever happen, you know, can happen inside of culture and society.
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But we've got to pay attention in locking ourselves inside of our morning services is not going to do it.
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We have to get involved and we have to be at the tables that exist and be willing to go there, have conversations to to probe, to ask questions so that we can be able to give a kingdom perspective with it.
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And I believe that God is raising up people to be able to go and speak the language of the culture.
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And that's what I think happened. Acts two, when we receive Holy Spirit, here he is descending and people begin to speak in other languages as the spirit gave them utterance.
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And then there were people who were on lookers that say, oh my God, they're speaking my language.
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I believe Holy Spirit doesn't just come to you for us to speak in tongues.
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I believe Holy Spirit will come on you to speak the language of the culture and to bring solutions to the table.
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And so, and so I think that we have a responsibility.
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Oh man, it's so true, man. I think, you know, the church, we can't duck behind that in the political divisions and the people racing to the opposite polarity and political sides.
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I think we've lost the fact. I mean, you think of Wilberforce and Finney, they were at the forefront of the abolition movement.
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You think the civil rights, Dr. Martin Luther King and many spiritual giants, they were at the forefront.
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And so the church was the voice, the church building was the town hall that folks met in the community and let's talk these things out.
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And I think, you know, our town hall mentality went to ivory towers.
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And the moment we became ivory towers, we lost our voice.
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And I think we ought to be that people. And it's kind of disturbing, you know, when the Lord is very close.
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I love what you said about love.
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The Bible is very clear about how we treat foreigners, how we treat those that come from outside. And yet I think we've politicized this anti-immigrant.
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And yet point is somebody in America did in some point in time, you didn't immigrate outside the Native American First Nation people.
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All the rest of us are immigrants.
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We're all immigrants.
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All immigrants.
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And, you know, I just think we've become more, I guess I'll just say, we've become more donkey and elephant than line of the tribe of Judah.
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And man, we got to get back to, I love what you're saying with that.
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Hey, in the area leadership, one other, I'm this quick hitters and I love it.
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You're nailing this, bro. And this is off script. Keep it 100.
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I did not send him these questions.
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I love this in the area of leadership, you know, currently, you know, and it's ongoing.
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So it's not how do you, how important is leadership in the midst of addressing scandals?
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Because I know I've seen a different points in times where the churches is quiet.
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We just didn't say nothing.
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We just, okay, this brother's gifted.
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Okay, the sister could sing all the hand to choir.
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We need their gift.
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And it wasn't said on that level.
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And then when all of a sudden their influence grew and now, you know, it's like we're in a different day where the world will call us out, which rightfully so somebody needs to call off.
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We are going to judge ourselves.
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But how important or what would you speak to as a leader in the area of addressing scandals?
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Obviously it's scandals within the church.
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Yeah, I think, I think number one, there has to be such a sensitivity towards others.
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I think when we find people in falls, sometimes we can get really judgmental.
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And so just from the aspect of like, we're so far above it, you know, and I think we got to be careful with that.
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Because, you know, God forbid something crazy happened.
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I don't think we should all be like, oh my God, this villainizing individuals, but allowing for the Bible says if you were spiritual restore such a one, right?
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And so be a part of that journey of restoration for individuals who want to be restored.
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Some don't.
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So, but at least being willing to go through that process.
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I think when we just jump on social media and, you know, and just tear people apart and all of that, that's not a win for the kingdom in any way shape form a crashing.
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But if you're in relationship with someone who is operated in some, you know, has some kind of fall, some kind of scandal, I think it's our job to be able to check in and say, hey, how can I help you get to the place of restoration?
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How can I hope you get hold?
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How can I hope you get healed?
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Because many people will love to judge the seats that they've never sat in.
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And love to say, you know, if I was in, I would have done you really don't know until you're in that level of seat and have that level of influence.
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Because the enemy wants to do everything he can to take it down. What is it? Smythe the sheep? Smythe the shepherd? Skaver the sheep? Right?
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So is this idea that if we can take the leaders down and we can affect the masses, but if we can be a part of that restoration and in that when we have brothers and sisters that have fallen, I don't think it's our job to be silent about that or act like it's not there.
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We have a responsibility to help walk the people who have been affected by scan to restoration as well.
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And so we have to be safe places to be able to say, hey, we love this brother, we love this sister, but hey, we realize that they had something that really is against what the character that God wants us to have.
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And we want to be a part of seeing you growing and healed and to realize that this is not the way that we all are in agreement.
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We're not all in agreement for this. So we're not all for this. But there is a standard that exists in the King God.
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Oh, I love that. I love that. So true.
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And I think you nailed it when you go, we've not sat in those seats. You don't know. And I think we forget that the world has a call out culture, but we have a call in culture.
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That's the kingdom. We're trying to call them in the grace, call them in the fellowship, call them in the relationship, call them in the restoration.
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So, so, so key, man. Oh, I'm glad you're hitting these things. These are awesome.
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You know, my wife prophetically had a word that this would be a season of unlikely alliances. And she actually hit it from both points.
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You know, one she likened, I think it was pilot inherited were kind of enemies, but they came in agreement in their attitude of animosity towards Jesus.
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It was an unlikely alliance. There are other times that we see godly unlikely alliances. And I've seen, you know, a mentor of mine and another guy that I think their ministries are really quite diverse, but they come together and they're putting up tents all across America.
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And then thousands upon thousands, he he he texts me the biggest 10 that he's got. I mean, they're like three to five thousand people getting underneath the tents, signs and wonders.
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And the other guy is the kind of guy that will pull out a whiteboard and he'll discuss things. He's a very forward thinking guy, very anointed.
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And then my mentor is a prophetic evangelist and just has his kind of sons of Issa Carbide on culture, but they're seeing souls saved.
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So what how important do you think in this next move is collaboration? Sure, because I know that's that's something that you you're doing.
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You're not just talking about it. You're doing it. How important is collaboration this next season?
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I think collaboration is everything because we have been a lot of us have to have our name on something for us to be able to feel like we were a part of it.
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Right. So right. Sometimes gets involved in the journey of leadership in the journey of following what we think that God has for us to do.
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But I think collaboration is the way of the kingdom. Jesus, even when he sent out the apostles, there were it was to right, right?
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It was this idea that I want you to be able to not go alone. And I think sometimes when we can decide just like we're better together, right?
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We've heard that statement board that if you may you may have your set of gift thing, I may have my set of gift thing we can accomplish so much more when we add them together and build something that changes the world.
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I'm on a brand new journey in my own heart and everything that I'm doing to find out, hey, what does collaboration look like on all levels?
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Are there people that are doing similar things to what I'm doing that, hey, we could benefit from just writing this out together and being able to see that, but it's going to demand strong humility.
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Like really humbling ourselves before the Lord to give to open up to the fact that God wants us to walk side by side with one another.
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Man, I agree with you because, hey man, we're seeing it like the hip hop industry, they've been doing collabs and man, it could be two one rapper kind of fledgling another rapper kind of passage.
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They get together and all of a sudden that thing goes over the top and then we've seen it in business sectors. We've seen it in technological Hollywood.
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So I think that is so important man. Hey, we're super excited to keep running the tribe. We're going to have Sherman Dumas and his wife, Dr. Jack Dumas together January 18 through 20 for a momentum 2024 conference.
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It's our second one we did it last year out of obedience to God. So like we're supposed to call people to the bay and bring the profits in and it was crazy.
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I tell people Sherman we had Saturday, we were there were three services morning afternoon evening, it all bled together. We had a 10 hour day people door dash their food into the sanctuary because nobody wanted to leave the glory came and we're super excited.
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You know, obviously we're going to have some great speakers but we're having the profits coming in. You're a prophet.
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Hey question for you man. What why or what would you say to someone is thinking about coming to momentum 2024 and at least from your perspective you're coming through you got a word of the Lord.
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What would you say to us to get there like you have to get there as something that happens in the right gatherings where you get into the right environment something can spark on the inside of you something can awaken on the inside of you to what God wants to do not only through you but through everything connect to you.
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And so when you're able to get into the right environment that your family gets transformed by what you experience your business gets transformed and I think what you all have been building both with momentum nice and momentum conference is unique.
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I feel like it's it's likened to the ability to be able to just kind of stop and say hey God like okay we've been doing this in this way now we're going to build something a little different to be able to make sure that the masses are able to get fed and receive what they need from Holy Spirit and it's just creating a space for him to do whatever he wants to do we need those kind of spaces and so I'm telling everybody who's listening you need to get to momentum I'm excited about it like I'm
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I'm attending not just not just speaking because I want to get all I can get so I'm excited about it.
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Awesome what's so cool is that I think most of all the speakers there we all have sat together rather than Patricia Kings or other conferences and hung together and so it's so cool to have everybody together.
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Hey Sherman seriously you you are a brother I truly respect when you say something I listen because I know you have a beat of the Lord you have a heart of God. I love the fact that you you speak truth you you you do it in love but you speak to a lot of people that maybe you don't get the pure stream of truth but you will speak truth even if it's an
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inconvenient truth but it's what the word of the Lord is going to be saying so I'm super excited I know that they're listeners right now to go oh my God how do I stay in touch with Sherman Dumas how do I get a hold of his product tell us man give us the whole spiel any projects you got
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website social media how do we stay in touch with you bro. One of the main ways is going to be through Instagram if you go to Sherman Dumas TV it can be the portal to all of the other places including our of course our church that we lead in Southern California
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Kingdom culture the Kingdom culture movement is also establishing an apostolic hub in Dallas called it's literally called the hub and we've been having monthly gatherings called detonate which is a night of worship
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ministry all of those kinds things and so that's happening monthly in Dallas but you can get all of that information right there through Instagram and it'll take you to our books and all of the things we have.
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Oh that's awesome. Hey Sherman I love you bro. Hey man you guys have great Christmas man I can't wait to have you I'm sure we're going to be conversing and chatting or texting between now and then but bro thanks for stopping by what you shared is gold dude it's gold.
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Oh wow thank you so much for having me I had a lot of fun.
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Awesome.
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Thanks so much for tuning into the keep it 100 podcast make sure to rate review and refer us to your friends and be sure to click that subscribe button so that you're alerted as soon as new episodes drop help us get the word out share this link on your
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social media platforms and check us out at Seanandchristasmith.com you can also find us on Facebook at Sean and Chris Smith Ministries we would love to hear from you on how this podcast has impacted you so be sure to show us some love.
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Keep it 100.
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Welcome to Keep It 100 podcast with Sean and Christa Smith. Join us in the space where we take on real issues with real insight, real inspiration.
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This podcast is for those not looking for temporary relief to change circumstance, but revelation to forever change lives.
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Keep it 100!
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Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Keep It 100. We're so excited to be with the Keep It 100 tribe for another episode.
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What's good everybody?
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You know, we have had such an incredible year of 2023 and I know so many of our Keep It 100 tribe have felt the same.
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We have seen God move really powerfully.
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And as we wrap up this year, we're really reflecting on what God has spoken prophetically over the momentum movement as we're preparing and gearing up for our January 18th to the 20th momentum conference.
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You know, we had at our last momentum night of 2023, we brought up Jeremiah Johnson.
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And you remember this baby? He prophesied an incredible word about raising up a Gideon's army and we're so expectant on what God's going to do not only here in the bay,
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but for all of you that are going to gather in January with us because we believe there's a portion for everyone that's in the room because we really believe momentum is a catalytic meant that propels and imparts into people and move God.
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You know, you made a great point. Jeremiah's word was just really profound. It just run true to all of us there.
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He not only talked about Gideon's army, but he also talked about God lifting dismay off the bay.
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And we're really excited about gathering everyone from momentum 2024, January 18th to 20th.
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You guys can go to our website, seanandchristasmith.com.
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We're really excited about gathering people to come to the Bay Area because it is part of rewriting the narrative of the Bay.
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But at the same time, we also, when we're with the prophets gathering with Cindy Jacobs, a number of the generals and prophets prophesied, including one of the generals, James Gall prophesied over us.
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During a made session, just about God releasing fire in the Bay Area.
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And we believe if you come, you're going to receive that impartation of fire and you're going to carry that back.
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And we're actually praying and asking God, we say, boo, that we don't want this just to be a conference.
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We know for a lot of people, that's the reference point. You know, it is a gathering and you want to get in the room, but we're really believing this is going to be a flashpoint.
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This is going to be an encounter space.
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We're going to have extended worship. We're releasing. We're bringing the prophets. We're asking them to prophesy and preach the word unadulterated, unfiltered.
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Just go for it. We're going to have long times of alter call. People are going to be prophesied of what people are going to be delivered. People are going to be healed.
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We're going to lay hands on people. So it's not one of those conferences where you're going to get a lecture, take some notes and go get, you know, your taco from the taco truck.
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We are going to go in and we're excited about that.
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We really are. What we saw God do last year was absolutely unprecedented and incredible. It really blew our minds.
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I truly felt changed from the deposit and the weighty presence of God in the room truly to date.
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I don't know if I've ever been a part of a gathering of such tangible presence of God. I'm so expectant as we gather once again in January.
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If God did that last year and we've seen such an uptick of his presence and we're bringing really powerful bull that carry such a now portion of what God is saying, but also what they're releasing.
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It's truly going to profound and we're having one of those people that are a speaker at momentum on the episode today because some of you may know him and you already know why we love him so much.
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But for some of you, you don't even know who Sherman misses. Let me tell you, you're going to love this man of God.
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And I want to simply say this. Sherman gave me one of the most profound personal prophetic words I've ever received to date.
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And the truth is, I know many people that would say the same. So I love his accuracy. I love his tenderness and the prophetic.
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He really carries the now word of the Lord and that's who we're bringing to momentum. We're not bringing to momentum people that are cookie cutter messages and they're just bringing their best word that really hypes people up.
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We're asking them, we don't care if it's polished. We just want the word of the Lord. We want the presence of God and our only agenda is Jesus truly.
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And all we want to do is be in his presence because we know that when we're in his presence, late friends, that is when everything changes, when everything's possible.
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That's when we're transformed. That's when the breakthroughs happen is his presence.
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So we just simply want a place of no interruption where we turn off our phones, we get off our screens, disconnect and we actually connect with the spirit and the presence of the Lord.
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Yes. And so we're going to jump into this interview. You're going to certainly enjoy it. We're Sherman Dumas.
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And again, don't miss this opportunity. Go online and sign up now because once you hear this phenomenal brothers, just thoughts on leadership, really current authentic leadership that comes from the heart, you're going to want to sign up for it.
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So again, we're going to talk 2024, January 18th and 19th. Let's jump in this interview right now with Sherman Dumas.
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Hey, keep it 100 tried. I got one of my just the absolute best on here. This is one of my favorite bros to get around and talk to.
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He is a church planner. He is a pastor. He is an itinerant. He is an author. He is a communicator, a forward thinking brother, hits the nations, influenced people in multiple nations.
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My good friend, Sherman Dumas, what's going on, bro?
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Hey man, I'm so happy to be with you today.
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Oh man, it's a blessing to have you on and dude, we just saw each other at the global prophetic. So I forget all the acronyms mama Cindy Jakers has.
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It was so good to run into you here man.
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Absolutely. Absolutely. Whenever the process get together, there's always fun to have.
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Hey facts man, 100% agree with that.
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Well, hey man, I am so excited. You've written a book on leadership. I was doing a little bit of research. I didn't even know that man. Tell us about that.
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Yeah, so I wrote a book called Secrets, Lies and Leadership. And so the book was actually going through some of the pitfalls, taking case studies of people who have been in leadership.
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Some of the things that maybe unfortunately maybe they had some kind of scandal or something happened.
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So we actually go through and we evaluate what are some of the things that could have been done differently?
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What are some of the things that the scriptures say concerning leadership to make sure that we can learn from some of the stuff that's happened and not find ourselves in the same place.
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So yeah, we had fun with that.
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Oh man, I love that man. I think you know you read in the scripture man, when the Bible's described leaders, it talks about what they do, but it seems like there's more of an emphasis on why they do what they do and how they did it.
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And man, I just love that book. So here we go. First question. Hey, we love to start off with this on the Keeper 100 podcast.
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Hey man, give us your origin story, like some way in which God initially marked you and man, roll with it also as to what first marked you to aspire for leadership.
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Absolutely. So I grew up in the church. I grew up in this denomination actually called the church of God and cracks.
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So I grew up in it and God saved somewhere around the age of 12 years old, but I was struggling really strongly with suicide.
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It was literally ravishing my life and no one knew it. I was as a kid, I was serving my pastor. I was really well connected with the leadership church.
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No one knew I was struggling with it, but it was connected to my father not being a part of my journey.
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And I had this idea that if my dad didn't want me, why would anybody else want me? And so I literally tried to take my life through cutting, really tried to cut my risk and take my life.
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And I'll never forget that after the last time of doing that, it was in 1997. I was in a worship experience.
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And even though we were in this main line Pentecostal denomination, our church that both my wife and I grew up in was very progressive, was very progressive.
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They always were crossing streams and having people from all kinds of places and they had this guy there that night by the name of Kim Clemens.
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And of course, you know who Kim is and Kim's going on to be with the Lord.
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But Kim that night picked me out of the audience and began to minister the word Lord to me and began to tell me about much of what I'm living out and doing right now.
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I ministered my life. I mean, just laid it out.
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And that night, the power of sub aside was broken off of me. And even without me fully understanding my call to the prophetic that night I made a decision.
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I want to do what he just did for me by allowing the Lord to use him to as many people as I possibly can around the world.
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And so that kind of started my journey of seeking out God and wanting to not just hear his voice, but to be an expression of his voice in the earth and to minister to as many people as we possibly could.
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Amen. And I could vouch for you Sherman.
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Seriously, I know probably about at least three or four mutual friends of ours that I would say are love our generals are next level generals that you have had a prophetic word for them that is like mark their life.
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Like they're ball in their weeping. It's a restorative word.
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So you've done that. And I love that dynamic bro of how God exposes us to what it is that he's calling us to do, man.
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And I think that modeling is just so important because a first of all, if you don't know what's available, you want to aspire for right exactly exactly.
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And man, just done that. Go ahead, bro.
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And I was saying it does something like what if you don't know that it's a thing you don't know that it's even something I tell people all the time like sometimes people are hungry and don't know they're hungry, they're thirsty and they don't know they're thirsty.
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It's like you get into an atmosphere and you get into a certain surrounding and you're like, wait, that's possible. And you get the opportunity when you're exposed to it to run into it and to operate in it.
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So yeah.
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Oh man. And that's so true, man. Now, that really is it kind of like that place that marked you what as you would kind of continue that journey Sherman what caused you to aspire for leadership, you know, because a lot of times I mean you're you're you're in the office of a prophet,
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but you also are apostolic and you're pastoral, you're you're evangelist, you're you're walking in that five fold. But what all of us are called, obviously, but what caused you to aspire towards ecclesiastical or what we would maybe say a vocational leadership in the church.
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Yeah. So I watched a lot. It's gonna be interesting. I watched a lot when I was growing up. I mean, I saw a lot positive, but then I saw a lot of negative.
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I actually tell people and this is a little risque, but I learned my best sin in the church. And so when I was growing up. And so I saw a lot and really part of me was like, as I'm studying the scriptures and I'm seeing what I'm seeing, I'm like, there has to be more and there has to be this opportunity to really look at character
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and operate from that place other than just gifts. And so I think as the Lord was taking me on this journey of both and like fruit of the spirit and gifts of the spirit, right. And so both in and operating. And I felt like I had the responsibility to walk out what I was seeing in the scripture that unfortunately differed a lot of what I was seeing around me.
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And to be able to bring other people into an opportunity as well to be able to say, hey, yeah, I'm going to walk out all the Holy Spirit wants to do in my life, but I'm going to do it with allowing for my character to be formed and have the fruit of the spirit formed on the inside of me.
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So that kind of drove me to this place to say yes to this massive call that I felt like, you know, the Lord was calling.
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You know, as a kid, I used to play with magnets and then, you know, if you have the likes sides, I think, or maybe I'm the wrong, maybe it's opposite sides, the magnets attract, but if you flip it, the magnets repel.
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I think many times God directs us towards our call by both those things you're describing. You see some great examples and you're drawn towards that, that's something you want to do. And then you see some bad examples.
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And, you know, even our last podcast, we entitled it how the mighty has fallen and how to deal with moral failure. And it's tragic, but you know, it's something that throughout my years of being a Christian throughout my years of being in church that has happened.
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And you have to be able to help people navigate because as leaders, as part of what we do, right, we have to help get the sheet from A to Z and self leadership is the foundation for all other leadership.
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So you can't lead yourself, man, you know, something happens. So that kind of leads me to a next question, man, because I'm a watcher myself and I watch you and the way you carry yourself, the way your wife carries yourself.
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I've seen you navigate some tough situations. I've seen you challenge some handle some ongoing tough situations as a leader and it's, I look at you and go, wow, you know, lesser people with lesser care going crack underneath that pressure.
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Let me ask you this, bro, how do you define leadership and with along with that Sherman, what are the most important qualities of a good leader. So how do you define leadership? What are the most important qualities?
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That's a great question. I would define leadership as like positioning yourself to be that model that others are able to follow towards maturity.
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And so, you know, that may look like it on many different levels. It could be spiritual, but it could be natural. You could be, you know, obviously a business leader that's leading people towards maturity and business and maturity and whatever it is, causing for people to grow and to develop.
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I think there's real leadership. People call themselves leaders all the time and nobody's nobody's following you. We know we heard that said before you're not really leading anybody. It's just a title kind of thing.
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And so I think that's important. When I think about qualities of leaders, I think one of the key things, of course, is for every leader to be teachable.
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And when I say that, I mean that I believe that every leader needs to position themselves in submission to other leaders. Like if a leader doesn't have a leader, that's a problem because there is no place in the kingdom that we arrive to where we're just like, OK, no, I no longer need leadership anymore.
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I no longer need mentors. I no need safe places to be able to put my soul in my heart in. And so I think being teachable is a great sign of a leader.
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But then also it's important to be vulnerable, right? And so that's not easy for leaders because we have to find the safe places.
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We're the safe places that we can be open about where we are. But when you are vulnerable with the people that God has released to you to be mentors to you, people at peer level, it creates this opportunity for you to not feel like you have to be alone in leadership.
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For years, I thought the concept was it's lonely at the top because people would say that all the time. And so I was kind of being reared in that concept.
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And the truth is, it doesn't have to be that way. You can build community. You can connect with people that can help you in your leadership development.
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And you don't have to be alone or away from community in that. So, of course, again, really going from the place of making sure that we're operating vulnerable and then pulling ourselves into a place of being able to communicate well,
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vision casting well. I think if any leader is going to lead anyone anywhere, they have to give a captivating vision.
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They have to be able to share something with people that can move them from one place to the next.
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Oh, I love that, bro. And it's so true. And, you know, I love what you said. You know, we can't be alone because I think we've seen leaders lose themselves, lose their families, lose their integrity,
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lose a lot of things because they, I kind of find out it's not so much failure that takes folks out. It's success that takes folks out.
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A lot of leaders begin to get that success and it's like that initial hunger. And I love what you said. We see it in the church. We see it in business sector.
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We see it in people. I kind of pay attention to sports. You see it in coaches. You see it in across the sphere.
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And I love what you said because I think a leadership, you said, hey, if no one's following you, I mean, you're taking a walk. You're not a leader.
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And I think leaders cause the vacuum to be met and met is like an acronym for me. And you actually mentioned M, maturity.
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You know, leaders lead folks to maturity. E is enlargement. I think when you're under a leader, there ought to be, you know, I mean, fruit.
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The Bible talks about that if you're the vine that God blesses, you bear fruit. Right. And so there should be enlargement in terms of the overall vision, in terms of the kingdom, in terms of that individual's life.
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And then the T of met is transformation is God brings, you know, transformation. I noticed just by watching, because man, you've church planned, you went into other cities and church plant while living in another city.
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And I think that's what we're going to see right now in Dallas and in Southern California, both given leadership and apostolic oversight.
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Let me, this is something that is very difficult for a lot of people because I feel like we live in a day and age where we try to lead by consensus.
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And that can be very political, you know, the loudest voices that people with the most pool to people with the most money, the big tithers, people have been at the longest.
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But obviously the kingdom of God is going to let by consensus, you know, it's a theocracy. Leaders make tough decisions. Give us an example of a situation where you've had to make a tough decision, Shark.
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Yeah, that's a very good question. And so, you know, I could give you a whole bunch of experiences where I've had to do that.
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But I think as a leader, one of the hardest decisions I had to make was actually expanding to Texas from California. So both making that decision to operate in both of those places with the understanding that this was going to actually help those that were following my wife and I's leadership,
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that as we were expanding, it was going to cause for them to come to new levels of maturity, cause them to have to kind of grow up a little bit in some of the spaces that we might have had our hand in before.
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It was also going to give them the opportunity to, we mentioned this earlier, see what's possible, that you can do more than maybe what you had been seeing yourself as or what you thought could happen.
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And so making that decision was very difficult because in doing so, it would cause for some people that are connected to us to feel abandoned.
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So like, why are you moving to Texas? Oh, you don't love us anymore? Like, you know, all of those kind of conversations, you know, people, if they had internal situations of abandonment and rejection, then those things kind of spoke up.
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So part of that, that made it really difficult. And to be honest with you, it was probably one of the hardest decisions I had to make in leadership. But on the other side of it, partially on the other side of it, we're seeing people really come into new understanding of, hey, oh,
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well, I could, if they're doing that, then it's possible that I can do this and that, or I can do that and this, right? So this mentality that I don't have to be marked by just one particular thing, but there's several things that I can do.
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And I think sometimes people are kind of boxed in and feel like, hey, I can only operate like this. And sometimes the people around them will want them to say, just do this.
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But there's so much more to us. And so in us following the Lord and obeying him to be able to operate in several places, do several things at a time, allow for other people to be able to say, I can do this, I can move in this too.
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But that was probably the hardest decision because they didn't really believe it was for their benefit. They really thought it was just for mine. And some of them, but I think now they really wrap it.
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Man, and you're so right because when you make decisions that, actually, maybe the best way to describe it, when you make decisions that are contrary to people's expectations, you face something particularly as a spiritual leader.
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And my observation is that there's a lot of the tail wagging the dog, that they're leaders that literally they're allowing the loudest voices and the people around them. And you model something because you have and have had a successful ministry
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Southern California. My wife and I both came down there and spoke at your doctor jackets conference. Amazing, powerful. Like most people that I've observed, they work towards a comfort zone that you work, you plant your labor, you build, you born to people, you get it right.
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And then you just retire on the acre, right? But not you, man. You established it and then jump across halfway across the United States to put your hand in a very successful church, Trinity, obviously church there.
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I think it goes to this and maybe you can even speak to this. We're low off script right now, but I love that kind of stuff is leadership is about risk taking. Talk to us about that, man, because you've taken some risks, man.
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I mean, you, man, I'll let you tell the stories.
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If I was the if I was the really titled my life the last two and a half years, it was it would be titled risk, like just like risking it all just laying it all out on the table. I think it's necessary. Right. Yes, sir. Success is not found in the comfort zone is actually found in being uncomfortable.
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It's not found in being way feeling like stretch and I'm telling you my faith is never seen the level of depths and heights and widths that is seen until recently, you know, because it's like requires like God, I'm out here.
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And and and I'm totally depending on you. This is fresh. This is new.
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But I think it's then brings you into the next place. I really feel like in some ways in my life, I had gotten so you mentioned like we kind of start doing the things and then we get really good at it. And the Lord challenged me.
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He was like, you could do some of this stuff with your eyes closed. Like you could just do it and you just do it just doing it and it's not you haven't been stretched recently. And I was offended with the Lord. I was like, what do you mean? I haven't been stretched like I've been stretched.
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And he was like, no, not at the level that I want to stretch you, you know, and so taking risks will begin to stretch and expand your capacity. It will begin to stretch and expand your faith and allow for you to be able to say, oh, wait a minute, if I had just stayed in my comfort zone, I wouldn't have known that God could have done this through me, or this could have happened.
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And and I think as leaders in whatever capacity, family, ministry, church, you know, business, like our decisions are not just about us, right? Like that decision for me.
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It went far beyond what was possible for those that were following me in my ministry. It was about my five children. It was about my wife. Like I would never want to get to a place later on in life and then be like, what if what if I would have taken the risk and what if I would have gone and done it and what could have been possible.
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My children now, all five of them are growing in understanding of that crazy things can happen when you obey God and you follow him, even though it's extremely uncomfortable and it's very risky.
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Man, it's so true. You know, Jesus, I think about what you're saying. Jesus told the story of the of the talents and he says, you know, one guy was given five, two and other one given one. And the one guy buried his talent took no risk, did the same thing.
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I'm a buried over here and I'm going to dig it back up. So when you come back, I'll give you what you gave me. And it's interesting. It was two things that jumped out in the peril. Jesus said, it says, the guy says, I was afraid.
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And his thought was you're an exacting master. And I always feel like what short circuits or puts a wet blanket on our risk taking is that we think God is exacting, but we got to understand God is a risk taker.
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I mean, he set the kingdom and the future of the church in 12 people and one dude had to be replaced at the very end.
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And man, Peter just got finished denying Jesus three times. I mean, God is a risk taker. And you know, it's funny because I feel I mean, I couldn't I couldn't shout a man and give you 100% emojis enough on that one.
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I thought the Lord come to me at one point in time Sherman and say that I become domesticated and just like you, I kind of in my heart, I push back. I said, God, I preach open air.
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I've gone and witnessed the psychics in witchy cobbins. I'll, you know, wherever you tell me I'll go in the middle of, you know, Sapa Cisco and preach at Union Square or whatever.
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And I felt like Lord says, yeah, but you've done that. And what I what the Lord began to show me is what was cutting edge early on.
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If you occupy that space enough, it's not cutting edge. It's comfort zone now. Your cutting edge is in front of you. And I feel like there's a lot of people.
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And I think particularly in 2024, I think I kind of we hit upon a prophetic thing here. I feel like God is calling the body of Christ and us, you know, rank and file believers that we got to take some risks.
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Man, I think the whole COVID pandemic and obviously we don't want to talk about that anymore. We're tired of that. But I think we looked for comfort zones.
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We looked at there was such this kind of demand on us to adapt. And I think we ran through our adaptive, you know, psychological profiles and energies and energy.
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We went through that. And so I think we just look for things that we could rest in things that give us a semblance of the normality.
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And we're in a different season. And so some of the mindsets, mentalities that we develop that may even have gotten us through, you know, the 2020 to 2022, let's say season are going to be very unfriendly now because God's going to take risks in the midst of what's going on in the Middle East, Ukraine, inflation,
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crazy terrorism, not just on the Gaza Strip, but at malls and schools and churches here in America, the madness of what attacks a generation, your kids, my kids trying to hijack the narrative.
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And it's like as believers in the church, man, we got to be risk takers. And you, man, you, you model that couple, couple of years in this area, because I'm going to throw out some quick hitters on you.
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You and your wife are awesome at leveraging what I call digital influence. And I know this is off script. Any thoughts like anything in the area of how important do you think that whole, you know, obviously the rapid advancement of technology, social media and all that.
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How important is it for leaders to be impactful even in that area?
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Yeah, I think we got to definitely pay attention. You were talking to my remaining on the cutting edge and sometimes as believers, we are behind time or we wait to catch up. And I believe that there's no way that God wants for the world system to be able to be the forerunners in all of this.
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Like God is looking for believers to be those that push into these areas and not doing it necessarily with Christian needs. You know, it's not necessarily coming up with, you know, Jesus Christ, you know, social media or calling whatever you whatever the stuff, you know, Jesus Christ, AI or whatever it is, like naming it that kind of stuff.
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But I believe that God wants to give us innovative ways of thinking and operating and that there is a whole group of individuals that need to know that through the power of divine intelligence, God wants to raise up people who will begin to dive into the world of artificial intelligence, like to bring in his intelligence into that world.
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There is such a massive reach that God has for us out there and we've got to get rid of the fear of like, oh my God, is this the way that the devil is coming and is this how the entire crisis is going to enter into the world, you know, all of these kind of things.
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And we've got to take advantage. So you're talking AI, you're talking, you're talking moving, you know, even deeper into meta, you're moving deeper into, you know, social media. I think believers need to really wake up and allow that creativity.
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One idea could change the whole face of the world. We saw with Mark Zuckerberg, one idea that was born out of nothing. It wasn't positive. It was actually born out of his rage and his frustration that he birthed Facebook.
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And so imagine what a believer could do if they went and received divine intelligence and one idea came that could shift everything for all of us.
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Man, bro, what you said, as you were saying, I was thinking, I think we can point at anti, quote unquote, anti groups out there as being the major impediment to the advancement of Christianity.
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But I think what it is is hesitating, timid spiritual leadership that the enemy is kind of, you know, back in the hood, you draw the chicken line and you dare somebody across the chicken line.
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It's like the enemies drew the chicken line and we think we're just supposed to stare at a frame stained glass window buildings and just stay back and just kind of leave from that place of pulpit and all due respect to that.
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That's a venerated spot. But I love what you're saying. You're saying, no, no, no, no, we're supposed to disciple nations and you're all the nation.
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I don't know anybody at largest church in the world. I guess that would be Seoul, Korea, although there's some other churches getting there.
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Hey, all the world is not going to fit in one building. So right now, man, you, you know, you hold up your iPhone and you go, this is this emerging generation.
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For that matter, the people that populate the earth, this is their world, man. I just think it's so important. How about leadership?
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I'll talk about another front. How about leadership in the area of, you know, obviously there, the enemy wants to push an extreme so you'll throw out the balance.
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So obviously there's super woke ism that would be an extreme to what we would understand to be the plumb line of truth.
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But how about just leadership in the area of social justice and social consciousness? Because dude, you do that well.
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I'm glad we got you on the show. Talk to us a little bit about what do you feel like just as leaders and as people that are Christians.
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What is our responsibility in the area of social consciousness and social justice, particularly in the context of what we're seeing today?
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Yeah, I think it's extremely important. I think we have to really get a heart of the father. I think all of it has to be based towards the idea of operating and functioning in love.
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Right. And so anything that we're going to do in helping change the way culture is the direction culture is going to be able to answer some of the ills or the woes in society is going to demand that it's all driven by love.
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I think that's going to help us to make sure that as we are dealing with circumstances that we're not dealing with it out of our trauma, out of our own set of experiences that may be then driving us to want to do this or to fix this.
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But if we're doing it by the love of God, which when Jesus looked upon, you know, the masses, he was moved with compassion.
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Then miracles were able to happen, right?
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And so when we allow love to flow through us and answering some of these situations, then we can see miracles happen, things that people think cannot ever happen, you know, can happen inside of culture and society.
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But we've got to pay attention in locking ourselves inside of our morning services is not going to do it.
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We have to get involved and we have to be at the tables that exist and be willing to go there, have conversations to to probe, to ask questions so that we can be able to give a kingdom perspective with it.
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And I believe that God is raising up people to be able to go and speak the language of the culture.
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And that's what I think happened. Acts two, when we receive Holy Spirit, here he is descending and people begin to speak in other languages as the spirit gave them utterance.
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And then there were people who were on lookers that say, oh my God, they're speaking my language.
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I believe Holy Spirit doesn't just come to you for us to speak in tongues.
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I believe Holy Spirit will come on you to speak the language of the culture and to bring solutions to the table.
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And so, and so I think that we have a responsibility.
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Oh man, it's so true, man. I think, you know, the church, we can't duck behind that in the political divisions and the people racing to the opposite polarity and political sides.
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I think we've lost the fact. I mean, you think of Wilberforce and Finney, they were at the forefront of the abolition movement.
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You think the civil rights, Dr. Martin Luther King and many spiritual giants, they were at the forefront.
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And so the church was the voice, the church building was the town hall that folks met in the community and let's talk these things out.
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And I think, you know, our town hall mentality went to ivory towers.
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And the moment we became ivory towers, we lost our voice.
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And I think we ought to be that people. And it's kind of disturbing, you know, when the Lord is very close.
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I love what you said about love.
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The Bible is very clear about how we treat foreigners, how we treat those that come from outside. And yet I think we've politicized this anti-immigrant.
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And yet point is somebody in America did in some point in time, you didn't immigrate outside the Native American First Nation people.
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All the rest of us are immigrants.
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We're all immigrants.
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All immigrants.
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And, you know, I just think we've become more, I guess I'll just say, we've become more donkey and elephant than line of the tribe of Judah.
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And man, we got to get back to, I love what you're saying with that.
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Hey, in the area leadership, one other, I'm this quick hitters and I love it.
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You're nailing this, bro. And this is off script. Keep it 100.
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I did not send him these questions.
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I love this in the area of leadership, you know, currently, you know, and it's ongoing.
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So it's not how do you, how important is leadership in the midst of addressing scandals?
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Because I know I've seen a different points in times where the churches is quiet.
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We just didn't say nothing.
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We just, okay, this brother's gifted.
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Okay, the sister could sing all the hand to choir.
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We need their gift.
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And it wasn't said on that level.
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And then when all of a sudden their influence grew and now, you know, it's like we're in a different day where the world will call us out, which rightfully so somebody needs to call off.
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We are going to judge ourselves.
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But how important or what would you speak to as a leader in the area of addressing scandals?
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Obviously it's scandals within the church.
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Yeah, I think, I think number one, there has to be such a sensitivity towards others.
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I think when we find people in falls, sometimes we can get really judgmental.
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And so just from the aspect of like, we're so far above it, you know, and I think we got to be careful with that.
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Because, you know, God forbid something crazy happened.
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I don't think we should all be like, oh my God, this villainizing individuals, but allowing for the Bible says if you were spiritual restore such a one, right?
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And so be a part of that journey of restoration for individuals who want to be restored.
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Some don't.
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So, but at least being willing to go through that process.
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I think when we just jump on social media and, you know, and just tear people apart and all of that, that's not a win for the kingdom in any way shape form a crashing.
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But if you're in relationship with someone who is operated in some, you know, has some kind of fall, some kind of scandal, I think it's our job to be able to check in and say, hey, how can I help you get to the place of restoration?
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How can I hope you get hold?
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How can I hope you get healed?
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Because many people will love to judge the seats that they've never sat in.
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And love to say, you know, if I was in, I would have done you really don't know until you're in that level of seat and have that level of influence.
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Because the enemy wants to do everything he can to take it down. What is it? Smythe the sheep? Smythe the shepherd? Skaver the sheep? Right?
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So is this idea that if we can take the leaders down and we can affect the masses, but if we can be a part of that restoration and in that when we have brothers and sisters that have fallen, I don't think it's our job to be silent about that or act like it's not there.
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We have a responsibility to help walk the people who have been affected by scan to restoration as well.
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And so we have to be safe places to be able to say, hey, we love this brother, we love this sister, but hey, we realize that they had something that really is against what the character that God wants us to have.
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And we want to be a part of seeing you growing and healed and to realize that this is not the way that we all are in agreement.
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We're not all in agreement for this. So we're not all for this. But there is a standard that exists in the King God.
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Oh, I love that. I love that. So true.
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And I think you nailed it when you go, we've not sat in those seats. You don't know. And I think we forget that the world has a call out culture, but we have a call in culture.
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That's the kingdom. We're trying to call them in the grace, call them in the fellowship, call them in the relationship, call them in the restoration.
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So, so, so key, man. Oh, I'm glad you're hitting these things. These are awesome.
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You know, my wife prophetically had a word that this would be a season of unlikely alliances. And she actually hit it from both points.
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You know, one she likened, I think it was pilot inherited were kind of enemies, but they came in agreement in their attitude of animosity towards Jesus.
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It was an unlikely alliance. There are other times that we see godly unlikely alliances. And I've seen, you know, a mentor of mine and another guy that I think their ministries are really quite diverse, but they come together and they're putting up tents all across America.
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And then thousands upon thousands, he he he texts me the biggest 10 that he's got. I mean, they're like three to five thousand people getting underneath the tents, signs and wonders.
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And the other guy is the kind of guy that will pull out a whiteboard and he'll discuss things. He's a very forward thinking guy, very anointed.
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And then my mentor is a prophetic evangelist and just has his kind of sons of Issa Carbide on culture, but they're seeing souls saved.
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So what how important do you think in this next move is collaboration? Sure, because I know that's that's something that you you're doing.
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You're not just talking about it. You're doing it. How important is collaboration this next season?
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I think collaboration is everything because we have been a lot of us have to have our name on something for us to be able to feel like we were a part of it.
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Right. So right. Sometimes gets involved in the journey of leadership in the journey of following what we think that God has for us to do.
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But I think collaboration is the way of the kingdom. Jesus, even when he sent out the apostles, there were it was to right, right?
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It was this idea that I want you to be able to not go alone. And I think sometimes when we can decide just like we're better together, right?
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We've heard that statement board that if you may you may have your set of gift thing, I may have my set of gift thing we can accomplish so much more when we add them together and build something that changes the world.
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I'm on a brand new journey in my own heart and everything that I'm doing to find out, hey, what does collaboration look like on all levels?
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Are there people that are doing similar things to what I'm doing that, hey, we could benefit from just writing this out together and being able to see that, but it's going to demand strong humility.
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Like really humbling ourselves before the Lord to give to open up to the fact that God wants us to walk side by side with one another.
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Man, I agree with you because, hey man, we're seeing it like the hip hop industry, they've been doing collabs and man, it could be two one rapper kind of fledgling another rapper kind of passage.
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They get together and all of a sudden that thing goes over the top and then we've seen it in business sectors. We've seen it in technological Hollywood.
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So I think that is so important man. Hey, we're super excited to keep running the tribe. We're going to have Sherman Dumas and his wife, Dr. Jack Dumas together January 18 through 20 for a momentum 2024 conference.
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It's our second one we did it last year out of obedience to God. So like we're supposed to call people to the bay and bring the profits in and it was crazy.
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I tell people Sherman we had Saturday, we were there were three services morning afternoon evening, it all bled together. We had a 10 hour day people door dash their food into the sanctuary because nobody wanted to leave the glory came and we're super excited.
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You know, obviously we're going to have some great speakers but we're having the profits coming in. You're a prophet.
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Hey question for you man. What why or what would you say to someone is thinking about coming to momentum 2024 and at least from your perspective you're coming through you got a word of the Lord.
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What would you say to us to get there like you have to get there as something that happens in the right gatherings where you get into the right environment something can spark on the inside of you something can awaken on the inside of you to what God wants to do not only through you but through everything connect to you.
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And so when you're able to get into the right environment that your family gets transformed by what you experience your business gets transformed and I think what you all have been building both with momentum nice and momentum conference is unique.
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I feel like it's it's likened to the ability to be able to just kind of stop and say hey God like okay we've been doing this in this way now we're going to build something a little different to be able to make sure that the masses are able to get fed and receive what they need from Holy Spirit and it's just creating a space for him to do whatever he wants to do we need those kind of spaces and so I'm telling everybody who's listening you need to get to momentum I'm excited about it like I'm
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I'm attending not just not just speaking because I want to get all I can get so I'm excited about it.
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Awesome what's so cool is that I think most of all the speakers there we all have sat together rather than Patricia Kings or other conferences and hung together and so it's so cool to have everybody together.
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Hey Sherman seriously you you are a brother I truly respect when you say something I listen because I know you have a beat of the Lord you have a heart of God. I love the fact that you you speak truth you you you do it in love but you speak to a lot of people that maybe you don't get the pure stream of truth but you will speak truth even if it's an
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inconvenient truth but it's what the word of the Lord is going to be saying so I'm super excited I know that they're listeners right now to go oh my God how do I stay in touch with Sherman Dumas how do I get a hold of his product tell us man give us the whole spiel any projects you got
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website social media how do we stay in touch with you bro. One of the main ways is going to be through Instagram if you go to Sherman Dumas TV it can be the portal to all of the other places including our of course our church that we lead in Southern California
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Kingdom culture the Kingdom culture movement is also establishing an apostolic hub in Dallas called it's literally called the hub and we've been having monthly gatherings called detonate which is a night of worship
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ministry all of those kinds things and so that's happening monthly in Dallas but you can get all of that information right there through Instagram and it'll take you to our books and all of the things we have.
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Oh that's awesome. Hey Sherman I love you bro. Hey man you guys have great Christmas man I can't wait to have you I'm sure we're going to be conversing and chatting or texting between now and then but bro thanks for stopping by what you shared is gold dude it's gold.
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Oh wow thank you so much for having me I had a lot of fun.
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Awesome.
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Thanks so much for tuning into the keep it 100 podcast make sure to rate review and refer us to your friends and be sure to click that subscribe button so that you're alerted as soon as new episodes drop help us get the word out share this link on your
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