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April 15, 2021
Evidence of the Conquest with Tim Mahoney (Going Deeper Series)
Susan interviews Tim Mahoney, film producer of Patterns of Evidence: The Exodus and Patterns of Evidence: The Red Sea. Find out about the archaeological finds at Jericho and other sites in the Israelite conquest of the land of Canaan as well as the controversy over their date.
To purchase Patterns of Evidence: The Exodus - https://www.icej.store/store/product/video/exodus-dvd
To purchase Patterns of Evidence: The Red Sea - https://www.icej.store/store/product/video/red-sea-miracle-1-and-2-dvd-combo-pack
For more information on Tim Mahoney visit www.patternsofevidence.com
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More info on Susan: https://www.icejusa.org/susans-blog
Transcript
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Welcome to Out of Zion with Susan Michael, an exploration of the Bible and the land of
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Israel.
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From ancient biblical sites to the story behind the stories, join Susan on a journey through
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the most exciting book on the planet.
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Hit the subscribe button for future episodes, which will deepen your faith and bring the
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Bible to life.
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And now, here's our host, Susan Michael.
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Well, welcome back to our Going Deeper series.
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And we are so excited to have with us today our friend, Tim Mahoney, where we're going
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to talk about the evidences of the Israelite conquest of the land of Canaan.
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And so, Tim, welcome back.
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Thank you so much for joining us today.
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Thank you for having me, Susan.
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Tim is a documentary filmmaker and director and author, and he has produced so far three
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really exciting documentaries that we've highlighted called Patterns of Evidence, The Exodus, and
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then Patterns of Evidence, The Red Sea Part 1 and The Red Sea Part 2.
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We've covered those in previous episodes, so if you didn't hear them, be sure and listen
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in because it's really fascinating information.
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Today we want to talk about the Israelite conquest of the land, and this is really a
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critical piece of history.
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And you know, Tim, when I first went to Israel to study there, I was all of just 19 and I
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went for a summer study program.
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So I returned a couple years later.
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I just finished my university degree and I went back to Jerusalem to get a master's.
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And the school that I went to only had three degree programs.
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It was a very small American school, and one was archaeology, which I was not interested
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in in the least bit.
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And so I chose a broader historical study, which was called Judeo-Christian studies.
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But for me, going out to these archaeological digs and the sites and the tales, and you
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see a pile of rocks and they're telling you that this was a palace or this was the living
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room and I couldn't picture it and it was hot and dusty.
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And that was just not the field for me.
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I wasn't interested.
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But I will say that some 40 years later, and I hate to admit it's been 40 years, archaeology
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has become so exciting and especially what they're uncovering in the city of Jerusalem.
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And now you can hardly stay on top of it and the findings are doing nothing but proving
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the Bible.
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But it wasn't always like this.
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And I know stories of others that like me and like you, we go to Israel, we were part
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of a university program and we're told by the archaeologists that there's no proof that
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these things happen, that the Bible says happen.
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And I know people that have really gone through a crisis of faith, which is similar to what
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you went through at a point in your life.
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And yet it's when you look at it, the archaeological finds are there.
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It's a matter of how they date them.
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That's the crucial issue here.
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And we really have this in the evidence there in the city of Jericho.
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Everybody knows where Jericho was.
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It was there for thousands of years.
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It was right on a waterway and so it's a long established archaeological site.
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But they were saying, well, there's no evidence.
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Can you tell us how and why that that's wrong and there's plenty of evidence there at Jericho?
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Yes, I can tell you what I've learned and we've made it into the film on the Exodus
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called Patterns of Evidence to Exodus.
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The last part of that film, there were six different major patterns we were looking for
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was the conquest of the Promised Land.
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It really begins at Jericho.
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And as the archaeologists started to come there, they were looking for the evidence for Jericho.
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They were looking for the Israelites.
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And what happened was that many believed that they had found it, that they had found the
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city of Jericho that had fallen down and that it had been burned.
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And that's basically was an understanding until Kathleen Kenyon came along later on.
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And she basically started to disconnect the biblical time with the falling of the walls
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of Jericho.
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She was saying it was from because of the pottery.
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People don't realize is that one of the tools that is used to identify time periods has
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to do with types of pottery because, believe it or not, pottery was popular at certain
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times and they can tell when pottery comes in and goes away and where pottery is made
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from.
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And so as they were looking at the pottery, what they do in a dig site is they dig straight
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down deep.
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They'll dig these shafts, like a whole long four foot path and they'll go in there and
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they'll identify because they can't dig the entire, usually they don't dig the entire
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city up.
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They dig sections of it up as they're looking for things.
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And that's when they were looking in there.
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They found information about the Jericho location.
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The city actually had a glass wall.
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It was like, it was a special kind of a wall.
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Then great big, it was a sloped kind of a hardened wall.
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You know, a wall, I mean, when I say wall, it wasn't sloping, but it was very difficult
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to climb up.
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And then rampart.
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Yeah, rampart.
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Yep.
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And then on top of that, they had the walls of Jericho.
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And so what ended up happening was when Kathleen Kenyon basically disconnected the biblical
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event because of her archaeology, it caused many people to turn away from confidence in
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the Bible.
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And there's a trend early on, I believe there was a trend to start to disconnect and dissect
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the biblical text and basically say, well, this, this didn't happen, this didn't happen,
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this didn't happen.
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But once again, it goes back to the question of dating.
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And it also goes back to the question of interpretation.
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And it became very difficult then for people who believed in the biblical account to be
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able to actually be able to have positions in certain universities because they were
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considered, you know, fundamentals or fundamentalists or whatever.
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And that so they started to not have the opportunities at major universities.
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And there was a division that was going on.
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And so it became very, very popular to, to discredit, I guess it would be the biblical
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account because of some of these early findings, both at Ramesses, the state Ramesses not finding
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anything there and now at Jericho, not finding anything.
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But once again, it goes back to the dating.
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And so what patterns of evidence does is it recounts the biblical account and then it
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starts to say, but wait a minute, let's look at the pattern of evidence.
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And what we find, what the archaeologists do find is that the city is actually burned
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and it is the walls have actually fallen down.
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And there was actually grain in the city, by the way.
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And how do we know that?
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Because there were vessels, there were pottery that actually had grain in them.
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And why is that significant is that saying that the people that were in the city didn't
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eat all their food.
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Something happened that destroyed the city in a very quick event.
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And that's where we look at the story in the account of Joshua, whereas once the walls
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fell down, the Israelites came in there and they killed everybody except for Rahab.
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And so what they found was this, this pottery that had food inside it, it was burnt on the
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outside, but they hadn't eaten it, they hadn't consumed their food and all of that, but it
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came at the right time, the spring of the year when the harvest would have been there.
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So these things were matching the sequence of events that you would look for if the biblical
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account is matching Jericho.
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But the Germans found something very interesting when they excavated, they found that one part
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of the wall did not fall down.
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And this, there was a house, it was these houses that were built into the side of the
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wall, just as the count was given that when Rahab protected the spies and remember the
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account where she is, lets them escape through her window.
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And they said, put a scarlet cloth out your window and we'll spare you, you know, bring
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your family and friends, whoever was in that house.
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So God, we're told, did not cause the wall to fall down.
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And that's exactly what they found when they started to dig through this area.
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They found that that wall did not fall in a particular area.
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It's just one area that was still standing, whereas the rest of the areas were collapsed.
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And so those are the types of things that we look for in a pattern and in a sequence
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that say, well, did this happen in match?
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And so what we find out is that the biblical account matched perfectly with the archaeology.
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Or should I put it this way, I said that wrong, the archaeology matched perfectly with the
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biblical account.
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As long as we just dated correctly, then we know that it's the biblical account.
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Well, for those of our listeners that are reading through the Bible with us together
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this year on the walk through the Bible, we just read this story this week.
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But now that we've heard this evidence, let me just repeat it quickly because the Israelites
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have had a major victory and it's brought a lot of fear into the land of Canaan.
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They are afraid of these Israelites that they've heard are on their way.
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And so spies go out to look at Jericho and they come across this harlot named Rahab.
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And she helps them and in return they promise that she'll be protected.
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And so she puts a red cord out her window.
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We've all read this story how many times in our lifetimes.
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And here Tim is telling us that the evidence at Jericho verifies everything down to the
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time of year even that this happened because the Bible tells us that the Israelites celebrated
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the Passover.
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And then they went to Jericho, they circled the city seven days and on the seventh day
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the walls just fell.
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And they burned the city but there is this section where the walls did not fall in order
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to preserve what we believe to be the home of Rahab.
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And they found the storage grain inside, meaning it was a short siege, it was only seven days,
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it was in the springtime like Passover.
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I mean, he's already told you this but all the details just line up with the biblical
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story.
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I find it fascinating and I really recommend that you all get the documentary, we link
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to it in the show notes of patterns of evidence, the Exodus, because he shows you a reenactment
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of a lot of this that he's describing here today.
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You can see it and you can just picture it.
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And it really is so exciting.
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You know, there was a very well-known American pastor wrote a book about two years ago now
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and in it, believe it or not, this pastor kind of is discrediting the Old Testament.
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And he mentions that there's no archaeological evidence for the fall of Jericho.
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And here we're hearing about all of this very specific evidence that backs up the biblical
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story.
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So let's go beyond Jericho, Tim, because there's more evidence.
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The land of Canaan was made up of a series of fortified cities.
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They were like a kingdom city, a city kingdom with a king, very high walls, they were well
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fortified, but there were a number of them in the land.
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And so Joshua and the Israelites are tasked now with taking over all this area with these
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cities.
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What other evidence do we have in the land from that time?
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One of the things that I've done is, once again, I'm a filmmaker, so I have to go and
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talk with different scholars.
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And I became interested in the question of chronology, which is the dating of when things
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happen.
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And in our films, we talk about, I created a device called the wall of time.
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And the wall of time has some different levels on it.
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And on one level, the lower level is the Egyptian time, then in the middle is, I believe it's
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the Bible timeline.
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And then there's the timeline on the upper path.
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So there's three levels, which is the times of Canaan or the history, archaeology.
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And so what we try to do with that is to help people understand that the times that we're
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compiling the pattern are earlier than the times that the different viewpoints would
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give the exis.
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A lot of people have put the exis around 1200 BC.
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The Bible puts it, if you're a conservative Bible believer, you put it around 1450 BC,
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200 years earlier in time.
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And a lot of the evidence that the scholars that I've talked with, many of them have suggested
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and believed that there's something wrong with the timelines of Egypt and Canaan, and
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that they have been placed in the wrong times.
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And so the biblical timeline is not in question at all.
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And I talk about when things are dated.
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But what they see going back to these cities is that earlier in time, at the same time
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of this exodus with this earlier evidence in Egypt, there comes something that happens
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and it's a dark period where Egypt falls into this dark period.
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I believe it's the second intermediate period they call it, as well as these other cities
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up in this area.
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And so what do we know happened?
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Well, we know that the plagues came and devastated Egypt, and Egypt sort of collapses and has
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to regain itself over a period of time.
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And it says in the scriptures that even 40 years later, that Egypt was under this feeling
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the effects of that devastation of that plague because they lost the first bowl, they lost
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their economic struggle, all their resources, they lost so many different things.
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The Israelites left with jewelry and then their army was killed in the Red Sea.
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But what we see is that these cities that existed that had these high walls and were
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fortified all seem to collapse at around the same time right after this.
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So that's what scholars like John Benson and maybe David Rowell would suggest that this
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is what you look and see right after the collapse of Egypt in this.
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This is one theory that they're saying this matches then the account.
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There's a city, Hotsar, and there's a king there by name of Javan.
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It says that it talks about the fact that they went and conquered the city with jab.
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And when they went, the archaeologists came and they uncovered it.
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They actually found tablets containing the name of Javan, J-A-B-I.
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And Kaniyia form writing found in this palace.
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And so once the Bible tells us these things happened and when the excavators were able
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to find it.
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Now the question is, well, what is the name Javan?
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Is it a name for let's say king or whatever?
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Is it the exact name?
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These are things that I'm trying to be careful about.
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But what we're saying is that that name, whether it's a proper name or whether it's the name
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of a title, that name is associated with what happened with Joshua and it's also associated
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with a tablet that was found there.
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So we find these patterns and sequences that seem to match.
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And so there is a desire to throw off the biblical account for different reasons.
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And what I've seen too is that when I went to talk with some of the scholars, they believed
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early on in their career and then if they're given a paradigm early on, if they're given
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a way to think about things and it doesn't, they can't find it there, then they lose faith.
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And I think there's a number of people who actually then go off to, you know, they believe
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in the Bible, they believe in God, they go off sometimes even to a seminary.
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And then there it's sort of taken out of them because of all these different criticisms
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that people are expressing.
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But what I've seen is that these criticisms that actually don't stand up, there are answers.
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And I think people have to be diligent and that's what I had to do because I had a crisis
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of faith and I could have been an agnostic to be quite honest with you.
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And you never would have heard from me and we never made these films.
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If in 2002, I just didn't continue to search for answers.
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So I want to encourage people that I have that in my own life and what I've seen is
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that there is an amazing pattern of evidence that is matching the biblical account in surprising
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ways.
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And we have people that I had a telephone call from a man in the spring of the year because
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of COVID, he was going to commit suicide.
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And he thought, I'll just watch a movie before I kill myself.
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It sounds terrible.
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And he just, and also he saw our film on the Exodus.
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And I think he actually saw the Moses controversy first and he watched it and he goes, is there
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anything else?
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And he saw something else.
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He ended up sending us a letter and said, I just want you to let Tim Mahoney know that
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he saved my life.
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I did not to take my life, but I do believe that the Bible is true.
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You know, there are people at vulnerable times in their life when they don't know if this
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is true because that is the challenge.
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And I talk who used to be grew up in Christian home, others were pastors, they went off and
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they basically got deprogrammed with a much more secular mindset.
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But you know what?
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They have no hope.
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They have no hope.
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And so there's constant for not pulling.
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And he said, yeah, I said, just so you know, I'm your friend, but the Bible says if you
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know, and the reason why it's important that we look for evidence of Moses.
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And there's this film called the Moses controversy, which is about the alphabet, which is about
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God giving at the same time the conquest, what you don't know, which we haven't talked
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about is that the alphabet shows up at this of ours, the city underneath Ramesses, this
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alphabet starts to show up the world's first alphabet.
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Somebody takes and creates the first Hebrew letters out of Egyptian Hargis.
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And you know what?
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It migrates at the same time into the Promised Land.
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And that was so powerful because then that alphabet became a people talk about being
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a Phoenician connection.
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Well the connection came around the same time when Solomon started the Lebanon and being
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on it to get cedars for the temple.
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And there's this communication.
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And that's where the first alphabet comes into play is we see it on a name of a king
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that has the same name.
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I think it's Hyram and he uses an alphabet and they, but it migrates out of Egypt to
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the Promised Land.
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And then it spreads throughout the world into different forms of the same concept of phonetic.
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And what does it say in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the
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word was God in the beginning was the word.
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The words are very, very important.
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And the one book in the world that I could see that this connection between the alphabet
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and then the Word of God given at Mount Sinai, which we understand the beginning of time
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and we understand the covenant that God has with the nation of Israel and we understand
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the promises that the nations will be blessed through the seed.
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All these things are coming together.
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That's why, and then Jesus says, you know, Moses wrote about me.
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And so why is it important?
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Because they know that if people were critical, the Bible know that if you can destroy Moses,
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you destroy all the rest of the biblical account because it has no credibility.
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That's why I think that I've been called to work on this type of work and to make these
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kinds of films is to bring back the historical credibility and say, do not listen to everything
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you're being told here.
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Take a look at these patterns of evidence.
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And once again, in some cases, it saves people's lives.
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Yes.
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Well, Tim, we want to thank you for what you're doing and for being obedient to the call of
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God to do this because I believe the documentaries you're making are going to have a great impact
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on our seminary students, on our universities, our Christian schools, our, you know, the
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whole industry, I think you're going to have a tremendous impact because you are asking
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the questions that had become, was not politically correct to ask a lot of these questions.
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And you're just doing it in an investigative way, uncovering the evidence and letting people
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decide, well, you come to your own conclusions, but these are the patterns that we see.
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And, you know, we started doing these teachings and podcasts and all to respond to the same
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atmosphere just in general and knowing that so many of our young people when they're
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in university, I mean, it's been like this for decades, but it's so much worse now for
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those going into university and to higher places of learning where the Bible has just
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been totally discredited and a young Christian even studying another field like finance or
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whatever, but through the general electives, their Bible is so torn apart that they have
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many of them having crises of faith.
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And so we just wanted to share what we know about how exciting the Bible is and how that
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it all makes so much more sense when you put it in its correct historical context and you
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look at these patterns of evidence.
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It really, it really is the word of God and we can base our lives on it and he is a faithful
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God.
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So what he has had written in his word, we can base our life on and it is life changing.
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So we want to thank you for what you're doing and we thank you for giving up your time to
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be with us and to discuss your findings.
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We look forward to future opportunities.
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Talk about future documentaries that you're working on, but I encourage everyone to get
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your copy of patterns of evidence, the Exodus and patterns of evidence, the Red Sea part
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one and two.
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We'll link to them in our show notes down below and we also give you the URL for Tim's
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organization there on patternsofevidence.com.
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And Tim, in our closing minute, you've also begun a new initiative, the historical faith
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society.
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Do you want to tell us about that?
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I'd love to, yes.
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We were trying to perfectly understand, well, how do we get people to be able to be, be
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discipled just like you're doing and also help out and be a part of this.
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So we felt led to create the, we started a foundation, Patterns of Evidence Foundation.
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Our films then are created through people helping us to raise the money for that.
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And then we created a community that's underneath the foundation called the Historical Faith
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Society.
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And each month we have community events online where we have speakers and we're going to
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be having John Lennox, the Oxford mathematician, Christian apologist, who's got a new film
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called Against the Tide.
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In March we're talking with Randall Price and the secret caves of the hidden caves,
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I guess it is, the hidden caves of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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The society now is working towards promoting the historical credibility of the Bible through
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archaeology.
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And so we're going to be helping to fund archaeological dig sites.
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We've got different dig sites that we're doing as well as to pass on the faith from the next
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generation.
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So that's where we're creating these programs, these special events every month, and we're
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bringing in scholars and lay people together.
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And we're trying to then create also tools that can be used to pass on the faith to your
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children.
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As we said, there's a lot of young people that have walked away from their faith because
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they're told it's not true.
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But guess what?
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These other ideologies have no answers.
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They lead to hopelessness.
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And there's so much anxiety about what's happening in the world today.
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And we have a hope.
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And I think that in some many ways the field is right for people that are desperate to
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hear hope and to hear the good news of the gospel.
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And that's what these opportunities have led us to.
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And so I just want to say that the Historical Faith Society is something we're very excited
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about.
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We've got more about it at thehistoricalfaithsociety.com.
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And so thank you for letting me share a little bit.
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Great.
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Well, I've already signed up.
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I'm already a member.
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And I encourage others to do the same.
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For those of you wanting to go even deeper than we've been able to go today, please take
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advantage of these resources.
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We'll link to all of it in today's show notes.
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Tim, thank you.
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Thank you for giving us hope.
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Thank you for bringing hope to the world that the biblical account is accurate.
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It's historically accurate.
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And we can base our lives on the Word of God.
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So thank you so much.
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And we just pray the Lord bless you and your ministry.
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And for all of you, come back next week.
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And until then, God bless you too.
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Bye-bye.
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Bye-bye.
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We hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of Zion with Susan Michael.
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Be sure to subscribe to Out of Zion now on Apple Podcasts, cpnshows.com, YouTube, or
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wherever you like to listen and learn.
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Out of Zion with Susan Michael is a production of ICEJ USA All Rights Reserved.
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Welcome to Out of Zion with Susan Michael, an exploration of the Bible and the land of
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Israel.
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From ancient biblical sites to the story behind the stories, join Susan on a journey through
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the most exciting book on the planet.
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Hit the subscribe button for future episodes, which will deepen your faith and bring the
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Bible to life.
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And now, here's our host, Susan Michael.
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Well, welcome back to our Going Deeper series.
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And we are so excited to have with us today our friend, Tim Mahoney, where we're going
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to talk about the evidences of the Israelite conquest of the land of Canaan.
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And so, Tim, welcome back.
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Thank you so much for joining us today.
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Thank you for having me, Susan.
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Tim is a documentary filmmaker and director and author, and he has produced so far three
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really exciting documentaries that we've highlighted called Patterns of Evidence, The Exodus, and
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then Patterns of Evidence, The Red Sea Part 1 and The Red Sea Part 2.
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We've covered those in previous episodes, so if you didn't hear them, be sure and listen
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in because it's really fascinating information.
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Today we want to talk about the Israelite conquest of the land, and this is really a
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critical piece of history.
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And you know, Tim, when I first went to Israel to study there, I was all of just 19 and I
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went for a summer study program.
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So I returned a couple years later.
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I just finished my university degree and I went back to Jerusalem to get a master's.
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And the school that I went to only had three degree programs.
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It was a very small American school, and one was archaeology, which I was not interested
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in in the least bit.
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And so I chose a broader historical study, which was called Judeo-Christian studies.
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But for me, going out to these archaeological digs and the sites and the tales, and you
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see a pile of rocks and they're telling you that this was a palace or this was the living
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room and I couldn't picture it and it was hot and dusty.
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And that was just not the field for me.
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I wasn't interested.
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But I will say that some 40 years later, and I hate to admit it's been 40 years, archaeology
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has become so exciting and especially what they're uncovering in the city of Jerusalem.
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And now you can hardly stay on top of it and the findings are doing nothing but proving
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the Bible.
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But it wasn't always like this.
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And I know stories of others that like me and like you, we go to Israel, we were part
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of a university program and we're told by the archaeologists that there's no proof that
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these things happen, that the Bible says happen.
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And I know people that have really gone through a crisis of faith, which is similar to what
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you went through at a point in your life.
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And yet it's when you look at it, the archaeological finds are there.
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It's a matter of how they date them.
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That's the crucial issue here.
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And we really have this in the evidence there in the city of Jericho.
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Everybody knows where Jericho was.
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It was there for thousands of years.
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It was right on a waterway and so it's a long established archaeological site.
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But they were saying, well, there's no evidence.
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Can you tell us how and why that that's wrong and there's plenty of evidence there at Jericho?
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Yes, I can tell you what I've learned and we've made it into the film on the Exodus
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called Patterns of Evidence to Exodus.
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The last part of that film, there were six different major patterns we were looking for
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was the conquest of the Promised Land.
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It really begins at Jericho.
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And as the archaeologists started to come there, they were looking for the evidence for Jericho.
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They were looking for the Israelites.
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And what happened was that many believed that they had found it, that they had found the
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city of Jericho that had fallen down and that it had been burned.
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And that's basically was an understanding until Kathleen Kenyon came along later on.
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And she basically started to disconnect the biblical time with the falling of the walls
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of Jericho.
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She was saying it was from because of the pottery.
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People don't realize is that one of the tools that is used to identify time periods has
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to do with types of pottery because, believe it or not, pottery was popular at certain
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times and they can tell when pottery comes in and goes away and where pottery is made
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from.
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And so as they were looking at the pottery, what they do in a dig site is they dig straight
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down deep.
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They'll dig these shafts, like a whole long four foot path and they'll go in there and
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they'll identify because they can't dig the entire, usually they don't dig the entire
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city up.
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They dig sections of it up as they're looking for things.
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And that's when they were looking in there.
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They found information about the Jericho location.
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The city actually had a glass wall.
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It was like, it was a special kind of a wall.
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Then great big, it was a sloped kind of a hardened wall.
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You know, a wall, I mean, when I say wall, it wasn't sloping, but it was very difficult
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to climb up.
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And then rampart.
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Yeah, rampart.
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Yep.
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And then on top of that, they had the walls of Jericho.
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And so what ended up happening was when Kathleen Kenyon basically disconnected the biblical
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event because of her archaeology, it caused many people to turn away from confidence in
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the Bible.
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And there's a trend early on, I believe there was a trend to start to disconnect and dissect
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the biblical text and basically say, well, this, this didn't happen, this didn't happen,
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this didn't happen.
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But once again, it goes back to the question of dating.
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And it also goes back to the question of interpretation.
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And it became very difficult then for people who believed in the biblical account to be
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able to actually be able to have positions in certain universities because they were
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considered, you know, fundamentals or fundamentalists or whatever.
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And that so they started to not have the opportunities at major universities.
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And there was a division that was going on.
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And so it became very, very popular to, to discredit, I guess it would be the biblical
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account because of some of these early findings, both at Ramesses, the state Ramesses not finding
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anything there and now at Jericho, not finding anything.
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But once again, it goes back to the dating.
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And so what patterns of evidence does is it recounts the biblical account and then it
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starts to say, but wait a minute, let's look at the pattern of evidence.
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And what we find, what the archaeologists do find is that the city is actually burned
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and it is the walls have actually fallen down.
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And there was actually grain in the city, by the way.
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And how do we know that?
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Because there were vessels, there were pottery that actually had grain in them.
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And why is that significant is that saying that the people that were in the city didn't
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eat all their food.
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Something happened that destroyed the city in a very quick event.
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And that's where we look at the story in the account of Joshua, whereas once the walls
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fell down, the Israelites came in there and they killed everybody except for Rahab.
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And so what they found was this, this pottery that had food inside it, it was burnt on the
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outside, but they hadn't eaten it, they hadn't consumed their food and all of that, but it
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came at the right time, the spring of the year when the harvest would have been there.
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So these things were matching the sequence of events that you would look for if the biblical
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account is matching Jericho.
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But the Germans found something very interesting when they excavated, they found that one part
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of the wall did not fall down.
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And this, there was a house, it was these houses that were built into the side of the
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wall, just as the count was given that when Rahab protected the spies and remember the
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account where she is, lets them escape through her window.
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And they said, put a scarlet cloth out your window and we'll spare you, you know, bring
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your family and friends, whoever was in that house.
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So God, we're told, did not cause the wall to fall down.
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And that's exactly what they found when they started to dig through this area.
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They found that that wall did not fall in a particular area.
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It's just one area that was still standing, whereas the rest of the areas were collapsed.
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And so those are the types of things that we look for in a pattern and in a sequence
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that say, well, did this happen in match?
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And so what we find out is that the biblical account matched perfectly with the archaeology.
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Or should I put it this way, I said that wrong, the archaeology matched perfectly with the
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biblical account.
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As long as we just dated correctly, then we know that it's the biblical account.
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Well, for those of our listeners that are reading through the Bible with us together
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this year on the walk through the Bible, we just read this story this week.
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But now that we've heard this evidence, let me just repeat it quickly because the Israelites
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have had a major victory and it's brought a lot of fear into the land of Canaan.
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They are afraid of these Israelites that they've heard are on their way.
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And so spies go out to look at Jericho and they come across this harlot named Rahab.
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And she helps them and in return they promise that she'll be protected.
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And so she puts a red cord out her window.
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We've all read this story how many times in our lifetimes.
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And here Tim is telling us that the evidence at Jericho verifies everything down to the
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time of year even that this happened because the Bible tells us that the Israelites celebrated
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the Passover.
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And then they went to Jericho, they circled the city seven days and on the seventh day
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the walls just fell.
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And they burned the city but there is this section where the walls did not fall in order
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to preserve what we believe to be the home of Rahab.
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And they found the storage grain inside, meaning it was a short siege, it was only seven days,
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it was in the springtime like Passover.
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I mean, he's already told you this but all the details just line up with the biblical
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story.
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I find it fascinating and I really recommend that you all get the documentary, we link
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to it in the show notes of patterns of evidence, the Exodus, because he shows you a reenactment
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of a lot of this that he's describing here today.
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You can see it and you can just picture it.
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And it really is so exciting.
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You know, there was a very well-known American pastor wrote a book about two years ago now
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and in it, believe it or not, this pastor kind of is discrediting the Old Testament.
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And he mentions that there's no archaeological evidence for the fall of Jericho.
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And here we're hearing about all of this very specific evidence that backs up the biblical
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story.
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So let's go beyond Jericho, Tim, because there's more evidence.
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The land of Canaan was made up of a series of fortified cities.
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They were like a kingdom city, a city kingdom with a king, very high walls, they were well
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fortified, but there were a number of them in the land.
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And so Joshua and the Israelites are tasked now with taking over all this area with these
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cities.
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What other evidence do we have in the land from that time?
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One of the things that I've done is, once again, I'm a filmmaker, so I have to go and
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talk with different scholars.
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And I became interested in the question of chronology, which is the dating of when things
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happen.
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And in our films, we talk about, I created a device called the wall of time.
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And the wall of time has some different levels on it.
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And on one level, the lower level is the Egyptian time, then in the middle is, I believe it's
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the Bible timeline.
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And then there's the timeline on the upper path.
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So there's three levels, which is the times of Canaan or the history, archaeology.
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And so what we try to do with that is to help people understand that the times that we're
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compiling the pattern are earlier than the times that the different viewpoints would
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give the exis.
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A lot of people have put the exis around 1200 BC.
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The Bible puts it, if you're a conservative Bible believer, you put it around 1450 BC,
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200 years earlier in time.
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And a lot of the evidence that the scholars that I've talked with, many of them have suggested
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and believed that there's something wrong with the timelines of Egypt and Canaan, and
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that they have been placed in the wrong times.
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And so the biblical timeline is not in question at all.
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And I talk about when things are dated.
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But what they see going back to these cities is that earlier in time, at the same time
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of this exodus with this earlier evidence in Egypt, there comes something that happens
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and it's a dark period where Egypt falls into this dark period.
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I believe it's the second intermediate period they call it, as well as these other cities
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up in this area.
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And so what do we know happened?
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Well, we know that the plagues came and devastated Egypt, and Egypt sort of collapses and has
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to regain itself over a period of time.
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And it says in the scriptures that even 40 years later, that Egypt was under this feeling
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the effects of that devastation of that plague because they lost the first bowl, they lost
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their economic struggle, all their resources, they lost so many different things.
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The Israelites left with jewelry and then their army was killed in the Red Sea.
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But what we see is that these cities that existed that had these high walls and were
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fortified all seem to collapse at around the same time right after this.
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So that's what scholars like John Benson and maybe David Rowell would suggest that this
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is what you look and see right after the collapse of Egypt in this.
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This is one theory that they're saying this matches then the account.
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There's a city, Hotsar, and there's a king there by name of Javan.
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It says that it talks about the fact that they went and conquered the city with jab.
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And when they went, the archaeologists came and they uncovered it.
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They actually found tablets containing the name of Javan, J-A-B-I.
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And Kaniyia form writing found in this palace.
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And so once the Bible tells us these things happened and when the excavators were able
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to find it.
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Now the question is, well, what is the name Javan?
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Is it a name for let's say king or whatever?
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Is it the exact name?
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These are things that I'm trying to be careful about.
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But what we're saying is that that name, whether it's a proper name or whether it's the name
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of a title, that name is associated with what happened with Joshua and it's also associated
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with a tablet that was found there.
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So we find these patterns and sequences that seem to match.
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And so there is a desire to throw off the biblical account for different reasons.
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And what I've seen too is that when I went to talk with some of the scholars, they believed
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early on in their career and then if they're given a paradigm early on, if they're given
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a way to think about things and it doesn't, they can't find it there, then they lose faith.
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And I think there's a number of people who actually then go off to, you know, they believe
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in the Bible, they believe in God, they go off sometimes even to a seminary.
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And then there it's sort of taken out of them because of all these different criticisms
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that people are expressing.
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But what I've seen is that these criticisms that actually don't stand up, there are answers.
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And I think people have to be diligent and that's what I had to do because I had a crisis
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of faith and I could have been an agnostic to be quite honest with you.
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And you never would have heard from me and we never made these films.
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If in 2002, I just didn't continue to search for answers.
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So I want to encourage people that I have that in my own life and what I've seen is
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that there is an amazing pattern of evidence that is matching the biblical account in surprising
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ways.
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And we have people that I had a telephone call from a man in the spring of the year because
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of COVID, he was going to commit suicide.
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And he thought, I'll just watch a movie before I kill myself.
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It sounds terrible.
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And he just, and also he saw our film on the Exodus.
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And I think he actually saw the Moses controversy first and he watched it and he goes, is there
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anything else?
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And he saw something else.
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He ended up sending us a letter and said, I just want you to let Tim Mahoney know that
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he saved my life.
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I did not to take my life, but I do believe that the Bible is true.
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You know, there are people at vulnerable times in their life when they don't know if this
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is true because that is the challenge.
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And I talk who used to be grew up in Christian home, others were pastors, they went off and
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they basically got deprogrammed with a much more secular mindset.
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But you know what?
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They have no hope.
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They have no hope.
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And so there's constant for not pulling.
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And he said, yeah, I said, just so you know, I'm your friend, but the Bible says if you
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know, and the reason why it's important that we look for evidence of Moses.
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And there's this film called the Moses controversy, which is about the alphabet, which is about
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God giving at the same time the conquest, what you don't know, which we haven't talked
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about is that the alphabet shows up at this of ours, the city underneath Ramesses, this
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alphabet starts to show up the world's first alphabet.
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Somebody takes and creates the first Hebrew letters out of Egyptian Hargis.
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And you know what?
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It migrates at the same time into the Promised Land.
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And that was so powerful because then that alphabet became a people talk about being
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a Phoenician connection.
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Well the connection came around the same time when Solomon started the Lebanon and being
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on it to get cedars for the temple.
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And there's this communication.
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And that's where the first alphabet comes into play is we see it on a name of a king
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that has the same name.
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I think it's Hyram and he uses an alphabet and they, but it migrates out of Egypt to
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the Promised Land.
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And then it spreads throughout the world into different forms of the same concept of phonetic.
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And what does it say in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the
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word was God in the beginning was the word.
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The words are very, very important.
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And the one book in the world that I could see that this connection between the alphabet
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and then the Word of God given at Mount Sinai, which we understand the beginning of time
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and we understand the covenant that God has with the nation of Israel and we understand
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the promises that the nations will be blessed through the seed.
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All these things are coming together.
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That's why, and then Jesus says, you know, Moses wrote about me.
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And so why is it important?
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Because they know that if people were critical, the Bible know that if you can destroy Moses,
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you destroy all the rest of the biblical account because it has no credibility.
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That's why I think that I've been called to work on this type of work and to make these
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kinds of films is to bring back the historical credibility and say, do not listen to everything
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you're being told here.
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Take a look at these patterns of evidence.
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And once again, in some cases, it saves people's lives.
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Yes.
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Well, Tim, we want to thank you for what you're doing and for being obedient to the call of
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God to do this because I believe the documentaries you're making are going to have a great impact
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on our seminary students, on our universities, our Christian schools, our, you know, the
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whole industry, I think you're going to have a tremendous impact because you are asking
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the questions that had become, was not politically correct to ask a lot of these questions.
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And you're just doing it in an investigative way, uncovering the evidence and letting people
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decide, well, you come to your own conclusions, but these are the patterns that we see.
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And, you know, we started doing these teachings and podcasts and all to respond to the same
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atmosphere just in general and knowing that so many of our young people when they're
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in university, I mean, it's been like this for decades, but it's so much worse now for
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those going into university and to higher places of learning where the Bible has just
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been totally discredited and a young Christian even studying another field like finance or
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whatever, but through the general electives, their Bible is so torn apart that they have
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many of them having crises of faith.
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And so we just wanted to share what we know about how exciting the Bible is and how that
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it all makes so much more sense when you put it in its correct historical context and you
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look at these patterns of evidence.
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It really, it really is the word of God and we can base our lives on it and he is a faithful
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God.
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So what he has had written in his word, we can base our life on and it is life changing.
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So we want to thank you for what you're doing and we thank you for giving up your time to
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be with us and to discuss your findings.
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We look forward to future opportunities.
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Talk about future documentaries that you're working on, but I encourage everyone to get
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your copy of patterns of evidence, the Exodus and patterns of evidence, the Red Sea part
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one and two.
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We'll link to them in our show notes down below and we also give you the URL for Tim's
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organization there on patternsofevidence.com.
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And Tim, in our closing minute, you've also begun a new initiative, the historical faith
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society.
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Do you want to tell us about that?
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I'd love to, yes.
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We were trying to perfectly understand, well, how do we get people to be able to be, be
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discipled just like you're doing and also help out and be a part of this.
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So we felt led to create the, we started a foundation, Patterns of Evidence Foundation.
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Our films then are created through people helping us to raise the money for that.
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And then we created a community that's underneath the foundation called the Historical Faith
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Society.
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And each month we have community events online where we have speakers and we're going to
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be having John Lennox, the Oxford mathematician, Christian apologist, who's got a new film
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called Against the Tide.
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In March we're talking with Randall Price and the secret caves of the hidden caves,
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I guess it is, the hidden caves of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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The society now is working towards promoting the historical credibility of the Bible through
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archaeology.
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And so we're going to be helping to fund archaeological dig sites.
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We've got different dig sites that we're doing as well as to pass on the faith from the next
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generation.
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So that's where we're creating these programs, these special events every month, and we're
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bringing in scholars and lay people together.
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And we're trying to then create also tools that can be used to pass on the faith to your
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children.
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As we said, there's a lot of young people that have walked away from their faith because
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they're told it's not true.
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But guess what?
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These other ideologies have no answers.
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They lead to hopelessness.
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And there's so much anxiety about what's happening in the world today.
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And we have a hope.
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And I think that in some many ways the field is right for people that are desperate to
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hear hope and to hear the good news of the gospel.
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And that's what these opportunities have led us to.
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And so I just want to say that the Historical Faith Society is something we're very excited
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about.
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We've got more about it at thehistoricalfaithsociety.com.
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And so thank you for letting me share a little bit.
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Great.
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Well, I've already signed up.
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I'm already a member.
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And I encourage others to do the same.
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For those of you wanting to go even deeper than we've been able to go today, please take
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advantage of these resources.
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We'll link to all of it in today's show notes.
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Tim, thank you.
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Thank you for giving us hope.
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Thank you for bringing hope to the world that the biblical account is accurate.
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It's historically accurate.
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And we can base our lives on the Word of God.
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So thank you so much.
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And we just pray the Lord bless you and your ministry.
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And for all of you, come back next week.
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And until then, God bless you too.
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Bye-bye.
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Bye-bye.
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We hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of Zion with Susan Michael.
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Be sure to subscribe to Out of Zion now on Apple Podcasts, cpnshows.com, YouTube, or
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wherever you like to listen and learn.
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Out of Zion with Susan Michael is a production of ICEJ USA All Rights Reserved.
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