Jews and Christians Learning to Relate: Jonathan Feldstein's Story

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Well, welcome back to our episode on Jews and Christians Learning to Relate.

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We have a special treat today as we are going to be interviewing a pioneer in Jewish-Christian

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relations from an Orthodox Jewish perspective.

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So please stay with us.

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Welcome to the Israel Answers series, Connecting Israel, the Bible, and You.

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Join Susan Michael as she explores timely issues and current events from a scriptural

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perspective to equip the Christian world with a balanced and biblical response.

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Be sure to subscribe for future episodes, which will ignite your faith and bring the

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Bible to life in your everyday world.

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Now, let's join Susan with your Israel Answers.

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Well as I said, we have a special friend with us.

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He's in Israel, an Orthodox Jewish proponent of Jewish-Christian relations, and he's given

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decades to this, and there's so much that we're going to be able to learn from him and

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from his story today.

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So I'd like to welcome Jonathan Philstein for being with us, and thank you, Jonathan,

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for joining us today.

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It's really my privilege, Susan.

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Thank you for hosting me.

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So let me share just a little bit about your background.

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You are the president and CEO of the Genesis 12-3 Foundation, and I don't think I have

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to explain to my audience what Genesis 12-3 says, but it is God's promise to Abraham that

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a nation, descendants, that would be a blessing to the world.

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And so that is the name of your foundation, and through that foundation, you are doing

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a lot of activities to bring Jews and Christians together and to see that blessing realized.

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You also have your own podcast called Inspiration from Zion, not to be confused without Zion,

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which we're on today, and your podcast is also on the Charisma Podcast Network.

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So we'll link to it in today's show notes so that those that would like to can listen

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to your podcast and learn more from you even after today.

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Jonathan, share with us first a little bit about your background, and if there was anything

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in your upbringing or your background that maybe prepared you for the work that you're

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so passionate about in developing Jewish-Christian relations.

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Wow, you got my heart racing.

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Well, as you mentioned, I'm an Orthodox Jew, but I didn't grow up as an Orthodox Jew.

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I grew up with a very secular Jewish mother and a very secular Israeli Jewish father.

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So immediately what prepared me is that my father gave me a name he could never pronounce

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because he had an accent till the day he died.

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And so he always called me Jonathan, and whether he was telling me to go do my homework or

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rake the leaves or shovel the snow, it was from an Israeli intonation.

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And that that was one of the things that led me here.

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But I'll be honest, growing up in kind of a secular background in New Jersey, I can't

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think of anything that would have ever touched me when I went away to college.

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I went to Emory.

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It was often my first time meeting and engaging real Christians.

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And in many cases, I was the first Jew that many people were meeting.

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So the only thing that I would say maybe that prepared me is both my mother and my father

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were very open minded people, and I inherited that from them.

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So me being able to engage people where they are and learn from them as compared to say,

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oh, you're different, and therefore I want nothing to do with you.

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But I certainly was not on any page.

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It was all a God thing as to how I got connected between Jewish Christian relations.

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Well, why tell us that story?

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Because something happened, a very specific event and time in your life where you felt

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a call to this.

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Yeah, I still have the bruise on my shoulder for where God tapped me and said, you're to

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build bridges between Jews and Christians.

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So when I finished college, I worked as the information officer at the Israeli Consulate

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in Atlanta.

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Now, in an academic setting, you're still in very much of a bubble.

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But when I was working, this is my first professional job, and it was in the late 1980s, I was

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traveling all over the Southeast speaking about Israel.

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If you remember this, it was during what was then called the Intifada.

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Now it was the first Intifada, but I was driving around all over the Southeast, occasionally

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hopping on a plane and going to engage people with pro-Israel advocacy and trying to share

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the truth.

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And it wasn't so much on a religious basis.

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Until one day, a very tall, thin, distinguished black gentleman named Bill Cherry, and I always

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have to say his name because I'm hoping and praying someone will find him and bring my

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angel to me.

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He picked me up at my apartment and drove me to Cleveland, Tennessee.

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I never knew there was a Cleveland, Tennessee.

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I didn't know that there was a church of God housed in Cleveland, Tennessee.

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And I was going to speak in my very first pro-Israel Christian event in a church.

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I had never been in a church before.

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And I walked in, I always say, if you could put a USB port in my head, you could still

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download the pictures.

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It's that vivid to me.

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I saw Christians wearing blue and white costumes, dancing Israeli folk dances, singing Hebrew

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songs.

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And honestly, Susan, I had no idea why Christians would care about Israel and the Jewish people,

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much less be celebrating.

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I don't remember what I said, but as I just said to you, that's where God gave me a very

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firm tap on the shoulder.

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And I didn't understand it, but I didn't understand what he wanted from me, but I clearly understood

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that this was my calling, and it took a while to really have the rubber hit the road.

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But it's been my passion.

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And it's honestly, it fulfills me.

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It's something that I absolutely love, which is an important qualification, because even

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if I didn't, if God calls you to do it, you still have to do it.

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But in this case, I am enriched because of it.

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Well, Jonathan, if I can ask you about one thing that you just said, you said this was

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the first time you'd been in a church.

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Is that right?

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Right.

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And this is one of the things that a lot of our evangelical Christians don't know is

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that there is a little fear and trepidation in Jewish people of even entering a church.

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It's because of the history.

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It's because of things that were done in the name of the church centuries ago.

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But I've heard others say this, that they remember that first church that they went

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into because it's like being very, very brave and stepping over a threshold.

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You want to add anything?

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I'm putting words in your mouth there.

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No, no, no.

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I didn't think of it as so much brave as just me doing my job at that time.

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But I will say this, more than fear and trepidation, which there is, we carry a lot of baggage

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with us and you know that historical, religious and going back centuries, I would add to what

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you said by mentioning that there's even a prohibition.

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And today, I freely go into churches and I will participate alongside my Christian friends

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in worship and where things are relevant to me.

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That's great.

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Whether or not that's also fine.

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But I get a lot of pushback and I will add this.

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In my brand of building bridges, it's not sufficient just to make relationships with

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Christians as a one-way street.

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I always come back from my trips, posting on my social media and people will tell me,

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you know, I say they look at me with three raised eyebrows.

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What are you doing?

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What are you doing at these conventions?

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What are you doing speaking in churches?

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You're not supposed to go into churches.

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And I talk about why that was and why that isn't anymore or from my perspective.

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And I feel that an equal part of my calling is to break down the barriers that we as Jews

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have.

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Well, I've spoken to a lot of Jewish audiences and they always want to know who are evangelical

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Christians and what do you believe and why do you support Israel?

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I've given the same talk over and over and over.

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But one of my observations is that a lot of them, most of them have never even met an

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evangelical.

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And so they're only going by what they've been told.

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And I always encourage them, don't go by what you're being told.

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Get to know us and base your opinion on real experience and not on what you've been told.

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Because every Jewish person I know, like Jonathan and others that have gotten involved in this

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relationship, love it and love the people they're working with.

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So there's something that's amiss here and it's the personal experience and relationship.

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That's what I encourage them.

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Base your opinions on real lives experience.

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Correct.

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Correct.

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100% Susan.

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Jonathan, share with our audience some of the things that you've done, your projects,

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Genesis 12-3, what does it do?

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What have you done over the years?

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So our mission is to build bridges between Jews and Christians and Christians with Israel

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in ways that are new and unique and meaningful.

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And when I say that, it means that I don't want to be the next Orthodox Jewish teacher

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of Torah to Christians and I don't want to be the next person who's doing the same thing

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that others are already doing.

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I'm looking for, I don't know, I never know what the plural is.

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If it's niche or niche, or niche is, but the plural of niche, I'm looking for new ways

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of engagement.

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The first project that we launched when we started the organization is called Run for

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Zion and Run for Zion is the first Christian program around the Jerusalem Marathon.

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We've spoken about this in the past and at the time, some years ago, I met with the mayor

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of Jerusalem, Mir Bar-Khat, who's now a member of our Knesset here in Israel.

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He is an entrepreneur.

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He is, at the time, he was mayor of Jerusalem and he's also a runner.

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So he understood that I had identified something that was really unique and necessary to do

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and even with a subsidy model so that in this coming year, 2023, people can come along

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and participate for as little as $23.

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But we're also engaged, you mentioned the podcast, Inspiration from Zion, that started

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out as a webinar during the pandemic when people couldn't connect in person.

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So the webinar series started.

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It was not deliberately intended to be something ongoing, but as a stopgap, that was wildly

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successful.

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And then I was invited to be the only Orthodox Jew to note, as far as I know, with a weekly

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podcast about Israel on the Charisma Podcast Network, which has been amazing for me on

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so many levels.

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One of the things, and there's so much going on, but one of the things that I'll mention

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also that I've been getting into and I'm hoping that this year we will have a kind of formal

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launch is, you know, about a year ago, there was the first of two different surveys that

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were released indicating a 50% drop of support among young Christians, a drop of support

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for Israel.

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And that's something that troubles me.

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And I don't, you know, a lot of Jews and a lot of Orthodox Jews, and I don't know how

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many you know who will say what I'm about to say.

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It's bad for Israel and it's bad biblically, but it's also very, very bad for the church.

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And I think that someone, and I hope to be that someone needs to pull together an interdenominational

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multi-ethnic task force that will address what are these issues and how do we fix it

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without politics, without rhetoric, but really delving in because if we wait another 10 years,

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we're going to end up seeing the elementary school age children today continuing to have

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no thought for Israel or actually not support Israel.

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But again, it all comes back to finding unique ways to build bridges and make connections.

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Yes.

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Well, and Jonathan, I will add to your brief resume there that you are a wonderful writer

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and you have written a lot of articles.

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I've seen them on the Charisma website, but if anyone just Googles your name, I'm sure

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a lot of articles will come up that you've written on various subjects about Israel,

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but also about this relationship and Jews and Christians.

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So I would really recommend your articles.

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You know, we are also very concerned about the future of the evangelical movement in

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America and what that comes the evangelical support of Israel as we see these trends that

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are really a threat.

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And I agree with you, the stronger the evangelical church is, the stronger will be the support

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for Israel of America, not just of Christians, but of America is where the backbone of that

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support.

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So it's very critical.

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But we're putting a lot of effort into right now is building educational resources because

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it's the that's one of the needs.

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And so we'll be happy to talk with you further at another point and see how we could be involved

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in that.

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Jonathan, getting back to our subject of Jewish Christian relations, what would be your advice?

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If you were speaking, let's say to a Jewish person first, and then we'll let you give

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advice to the Christian market.

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But what's your advice to them about how to begin this relationship?

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Wow, there's so many.

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First of all, you said it from a different perspective, but we need to get to know one

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another.

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And it's not necessarily easy if you if a Jewish person doesn't really know or have a

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relationship with with a Christian just to make that happen.

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So I invite anybody, Jews and Christians, always to reach out to me and me help with

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that.

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I will.

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We were at the same, not just the same conference, the same event at the NRB in the in the spring

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and Johnny Moore actually spoke exactly about this.

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He said Christians.

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Well, now I'm speaking from the other side, but Christians need to go out and find Jewish

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neighbors and embrace them and get to know them.

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I would say exactly the same thing about Jews.

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The one thing I would I would qualify is that I I would argue that most Jews don't know

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the difference between an evangelical Christian and and the Catholic or any Greek, Armenian

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or Russian Orthodox or even a Mormon for that matter.

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Jews tend to lump everyone in together with tremendous ignorance because we don't know.

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And I think that first and foremost, Jews need to begin to understand the theological

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differences, the sociological differences, and then identify, OK, who are these people

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that really love us and how do how can I engage with them and ask questions?

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Have you got always always say this, we have one mouth to speak half as much as we need

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to be listening.

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We really do need to be listening to one another.

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Yeah, and it's a very good point because we when we lump everybody together, then we

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don't understand how that this particular branch of Christendom, the evangelical Christians,

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how it's new and it's really not associated with the anti-Semitic past of the church.

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And most evangelicals don't even know about that past.

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And so I spend a lot of time educating on the history because we have to learn the lessons

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that that that history affords us.

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And if we're going to be involved in Jewish Christian relations, the Jewish community,

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they know that history and they're looking at us through the lens of that history.

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So we need to know it so that we understand those issues that are, you know, red slags

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or that we need to either avoid or we just need to be very careful how we articulate and

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understand the sensitivity of some of those issues.

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And so once the Jewish community comes to understand this is like a whole new segment

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of Christianity, and it's a very powerful one because it's growing faster than all the

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other segments.

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And will one day be the largest segment within Christian them.

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And so it's very important.

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And also the other thing I've observed over the years is it's difficult for the Jewish

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community to engage the evangelical world because we're made up of thousands of denominations,

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not one with the head office and the director of interfaith relations, you know who to go

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to with the evangelical world, it's grassroots.

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And so it's it's quite hard to engage it too.

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And so anyway that we can help the Jewish leaders and Jewish community to engage our

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community, we're always here to serve.

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Well, Jonathan, I always like to ask this question of our pioneers.

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I know you shared this special story of the first church you went into in the call of

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God to this work.

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But do you have any other special stories or funny stories or just impactful moments

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in this relationship that one of your favorite examples to give?

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Well, I would say just most recently, you know, with with building bridges and not having

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any boundaries, that there are any number of ways that what I do can go and has gone.

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So I just returned a week ago for my most recent trip in the US and, you know, and anyone

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listening following in the US knows that there's been a tremendous shortage of baby formula.

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And I decided, wow, that's horrible.

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I had a grandson who who needed a particular kind of formula at a stage in his life where

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he was unable to ingest whole foods yet.

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And he he lived because of that formula.

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So our shelves are filled with baby formula.

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And I decided I was going to bring some.

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And that notion percolated.

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I ended up flying with one of my daughters.

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And I still had the status with with the airline that allowed each of us to take three 70 pound

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bags.

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So I dragged along.

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I made an arrangement with one of Israel's largest grocery store chains to make a special

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order and give me a discount.

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The manager of the store near my home in Bushet, Sion is a Palestinian Arab Muslim from Hebron

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who loved that he was participating in this.

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And I brought 200 pounds of baby formula, 119 cans through customs.

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God was with me there too, because I could have been a little bit hairy.

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I joke that some of the cans broke and there was a white powder leaking out of some of

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the luggage.

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So it could have gone any way there.

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But this it's a great story because it never had entered my mind a month ago that we we

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could fulfill the third of the three segments of Genesis 12 three, which is the families

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of the world will be blessed through you.

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And I even had to look up the word in Hebrew.

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It is families.

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So now today, sitting in dozens of Christian homes all around the Dallas, Fort Worth area,

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you've got families that have cans of baby formula with Hebrew writing the same Hebrew

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letters that the scripture Genesis 12 free is written in as just our way to be a blessing

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for the families of the world.

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That is a great story.

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And it's a great example, Jonathan, of how you think out of the box and you come up with

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these very creative ideas.

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That's really a great story.

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Well, let me ask what I think is my final question today.

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And that is, how has this relationship impacted you personally?

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How have you been enriched by it?

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I'm a better human being.

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I'm a better Jew.

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I'm a better human being because I'm tremendously fulfilled on a personal level, personal and

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professional and I'm a better Jew because I'm interfacing with people who are also people

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of faith deeply.

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We all worship.

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I hate saying the same God because he's the only God, but we're the only people who are

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worshiping our Creator and who revere him and who have a relationship with him.

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And I have the privilege of playing an important role vis-a-vis Christians in representing

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Judaism and what Jews are and are about, which necessarily keeps me on my best behavior.

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And that really makes me a better Jew and a better human being.

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And that is a perfect example of what this relationship can do for all of us because if

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we are so intimidated by someone that may disagree with us or have a different theological

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opinion on something, if we're so intimidating that we don't know how to have a relationship

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with that person, then we're robbed of the opportunity of actually better investigating

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what we do believe so that we can discuss it and articulate it.

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And we can come out of it actually stronger in our beliefs and stronger in our identity

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as we grapple with some of these things.

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And it's a real gift in Judaism that you encourage asking questions.

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So many times in any religious circles, questions are kind of looked down upon.

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But Judaism encourages it to debate, to ask questions, to learn how to debate and articulate.

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And that's a really wonderful thing for Christians then being involved with our Jewish friends.

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We also learn how to discuss and to analyze and debate and articulate and we come out

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of it better for it.

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And the operative word I think you just used is learn.

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I'll just share another quick story.

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Back in March, I visited a church in Tennessee.

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The pastor was hosting me.

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We did a great Shabbat program together with me in the community.

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And I love to do that.

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And then he hosted me in all of the Sunday worship services.

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And because they were in a brand new building, it was my first visit back since they had

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moved.

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I brought a Mizzouza from here, from Israel, for them to put on the door.

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And I was explaining how and where and why.

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And he said, well, why do you hang it on an angle?

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And I said, I don't know.

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I'll have to check for you.

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And he used that as a great example during the Sunday teaching because he loved the

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fact that we just follow our faith, even the things that we don't know we follow.

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And then we learn about.

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So that's, I apply that same principle to my relations with a growing number of Christian

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friends.

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Wonderful.

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Well, Jonathan, thank you for sharing with us today.

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And I'm sure that I'll be seeing you at the next Christian conference I go to.

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I don't know which one, but look forward to seeing you there.

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And I encourage everyone in today's show notes, we link to Jonathan's podcast and more information

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about his Genesis 12, 3 foundation.

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So thank you, everyone.

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And I'll be back here next week when we interview another pioneer in this relationship.

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And until then, God bless.

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We hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of Zion with Susan Michael.

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Be sure to subscribe to Out of Zion now on Apple podcasts, CP in shows.com, YouTube,

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or wherever you like to listen and learn.

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Out of Zion with Susan Michael is a production of ICEJ USA All Rights Reserved.