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July 19, 2022
Jews and Christians Learning to Relate: Nicole Yoder’s Story
After a childhood interest in the Holocaust, and finishing college, Nicole heard the voice of the Lord that she was to go and show love to the people of Israel. When a door opened to care for to assist a handicapped woman she moved to Israel and has remained ever since. As the ICEJ’s VP for Aid and Aliyah she is interacting with Israelis every day and demonstrating Christian love and support to them. She shares lessons she has learned along the way and how it has impacted her own life.
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Transcript
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Welcome to the Israel Answers series, connecting Israel, the Bible, and you.
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Join Susan Michael as she explores timely issues and current events from a scriptural
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perspective to equip the Christian world with a balance and biblical response.
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Be sure to subscribe for future episodes, which will ignite your faith in bringing the
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Bible to life in your everyday world.
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Now let's join Susan with your Israel Answers.
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Well welcome to this week's interview on Jewish Christian Relations and Jews and Christians
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working together.
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We have with us today in this beautiful live studio in Jerusalem, a special guest, it's
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Nicole Yoder, and she is the Vice President for aid and aliyah at the International Christian
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Embassy Jerusalem.
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She's also a dear friend.
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She has been with our organization for 23 years now and she has just done such an amazing
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job here at the Embassy.
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We call her our hands and feet of love to the Jewish people because she runs all of our
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aid programs and she's fluent in Hebrew and is out every day working with the people of
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Israel showing them love and kindness and helps.
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And she has been interacting with them for 23 years now and has learned so much.
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We want to learn from her today about Jewish Christian relations and how these two groups
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can work together.
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So Nicole, I want to welcome you and would you just introduce yourself to the audience
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and tell us a little bit about your family background.
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I'm curious as to what in your background brought you to Israel.
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Well, thank you Susan.
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It's really a pleasure to be here with you and to be able to share with the audience
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as well.
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Well, I come from a strong Christian family.
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My father and my grandfather were pastors and my grandfather back in the 40s was going
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around teaching from his reading in the Bible that Israel should become a nation one day
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again.
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And of course, this is right at the end of World War II and there were not a few people
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who were telling him, you know, reprimanding him and telling him that this was a little
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bit crazy.
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And lo and behold, two years later it came to pass.
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And I'm very proud of this heritage actually.
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I so kind of grew up with that.
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But I can't honestly say I met any Jewish people at all growing up.
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I can't remember knowing anyone.
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I wasn't aware at all of Jewish Christian history.
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I think the first Jewish people that I actually met, I got the idea that they had the impression
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that there were Christians who didn't like them very well and I was genuinely puzzled
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why this would be.
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And so you can see that I had a lot to learn right from the beginning.
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But I think one of the things that interested me a lot as a child kind of inexplicably in
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a way was the Holocaust.
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And it came from watching movies, the sound of music and watching this family flee over
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the mountains and why did they have to flee at age 10?
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That was something that I wondered about.
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And then reading The Hiding Place and seeing the movie.
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And so Corey Tenboyman and her family became kind of heroes for me because they hid the
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Jewish people.
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And something from that, I just, I took it to heart and I was so curious about the Holocaust.
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I started reading books about the Holocaust and it was just something that really drew
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me and I was very curious about.
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But it wasn't until much later when I was studying in college that I was actually introduced
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to Jewish people and began to learn something about their culture.
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And the Lord turned a light on somehow in my mind and heart about the topic and I became
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actually very passionate and excited about what he was doing in this country at that
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time.
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Well, it's interesting.
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You know, you had the heritage.
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So then something happened though, right?
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You were watching a documentary and tell that story.
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So I guess because of the Holocaust, I had a kind of an interest in anti-Semitism.
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I mean, the Holocaust, obviously, I've never seen it as a Christian thing, even though,
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unfortunately, our history definitely contributed towards the fact that it happened later.
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But I basically was in a situation where friends were watching a four-part series on the Jewish
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roots of Christianity and one of the videos was on anti-Semitism.
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And somehow I'm sitting there watching this video taught by a rabbi about anti-Semitism
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and the Lord just spoke to me like an arrow straight to the heart.
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And it was so strong, go love and bless this people.
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Now, I have to be honest with you.
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I thought this was an absolutely crazy idea.
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I was 22 years old, just finished my degree.
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The Gulf War had just happened.
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Like I don't know anybody in Israel.
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I have zero money, like less than zero money because I have school loans to pay.
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And I pretty much tidily summed up that this was not going to happen, very practical mind.
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And I would have forgotten about it.
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But the following week, I happened to have the opportunity to hear a friend who had just
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come back from Israel and was sharing her experiences.
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And somehow the thing happened again, arrow to the heart, go love and bless this people.
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And it was so strong and so not what I was thinking about and so not what I would have
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thought of that I thought, okay, now I better pray about this.
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And so I basically said, Lord, if this is from you, then you make it happen.
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And he did in some really interesting ways.
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I ended up being offered to go and care for a Jewish woman in Israel who didn't speak
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any English.
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She's a stroke victim.
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She was, you know, needed people to just help her with her daily living.
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And one of my main complaints was I don't have any money.
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That's why I mean, how would I ever do that?
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And yet I said, Lord, if you open a door, I'll step through it.
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And that's where I got myself in trouble because the door that was opening was this elderly,
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non-English speaking Jewish woman who needed help.
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And she was going to offer me a place to stay and a few shekels for food.
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And I'm like, okay, that's a door.
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And I said I'd step through it.
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And that's how it happened.
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I came.
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Well, I apologize for the siren, but these are the sights and the sounds of Jerusalem
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here in the background.
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So Nicole, that was the perfect introduction then to what you ended up doing here through
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the ICEJ.
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It was caring for people.
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And you went on and got a master's degree in social work, right?
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Or what was the name of it?
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International Community Development.
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And you have been working full time for the whole 23 years in social work here on behalf
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of the ICEJ.
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So tell us, you're now an expert at working with Jewish people, particularly Israelis,
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which is a special group of Jewish people.
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They have a certain culture and a language.
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And tell us some of the lessons you've learned along the way as you've been working with
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them.
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How has it impacted you?
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I think maybe in the beginning, when I was just first in Israel, first of all, I had
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a lot to learn.
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I knew very little in many ways.
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And you have your ideas that you want to come and bless and what that looks like.
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And one of the things that I learned was to develop trust and friendship with people
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and let them take the lead in asking questions and not to think that you know everything,
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even about the Bible or faith.
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There's so much richness, even in the Jewish tradition and faith.
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And sometimes I think we Christians have a tendency to come along and say, well, how
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come they don't see it the way we do?
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And sometimes when you come on strong and you say things in a certain viewpoint, I can
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remember times just seeing the shutters close.
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They just didn't feel the dialogue.
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And maybe there was a certain expectation that was rejected.
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And so I learned to be in the friendship and let that be what led instead of just get rid
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of any agendas, get rid of any ideas of how things ought to be or I don't know.
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That's maybe not quite the way to put it.
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Yeah, and serve, serve.
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Well, do you have any, like, some of your favorite stories about interacting with the
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people?
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You know, one of the things that I have the privilege of doing is being all over Israel
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in every sector of Israeli society and come across a lot of people who haven't really
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been around Christians very much.
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And sometimes you're really surprised.
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I remember being in one meeting where the woman's like, we said, you know, we're from
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the International Christian Embassy and whatnot.
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And she's like, wait, just stop.
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Where?
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Let me take this in for a minute.
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She just wanted to sit for a second and just take that in.
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And there's a social worker in particular that I remember in Netanya that was a Russian
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immigrant.
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She hadn't been in the country so very long.
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And we were there for a specific project and sharing with her.
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And you know, the thing is, you often don't know what's going on in someone's mind or
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heart and you may find out later and you may not.
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That's why I say, don't come with expectations and don't come with, you know, ideas of how
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things should or could be.
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You don't know what's going on behind in someone's mind and just bless and offer friendship
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without expectations.
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So that's what we were doing.
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We were blessing the people.
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And at some point we decided to invite all the people that were relating to the embassy
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for a day so they could meet us beyond just the two of us.
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I was there with another colleague.
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They could meet the embassy.
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And we decided we're going to roll out the red carpet.
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We made it such a nice event.
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We had people serving our dervishes and we had live music and we, you know, gave them
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each a gift and we explained who we were and all of this.
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Anyways, and we gave people an opportunity to respond.
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And I remember the social worker said, you know, I come from Russia and I am, you know,
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I grew up in a very anti-Semitic environment.
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And I was always, we always knew when it was a Christian holiday, stay indoors, stay off
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the streets because bad things can happen.
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And she said, you know, I just knew that Christianity was scary and stays far away from it as possible.
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But then you and you did come along.
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And she said, you're probably the first Christians that I ever had very close contact with.
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And she said, and you've invited us here today.
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And I've started to learn something and she says, I've discovered that there's a whole
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another world out there that I didn't even realize existed.
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And it's not as scary as I always thought it was.
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And that's what you often find is that, that there's certain perceptions or things that
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are told about Christians and who we are.
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And quite frankly, sometimes those are really accurate descriptions, either from past things
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that have happened or from even current things.
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And it can be confusing for the people to understand who are you really.
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And so there's a certain level of, you know, kind of testing or testing is the right word,
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but sort of, you know, standing back and looking at the situation and until they find out,
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like who are you and are you a person that is trustworthy and can we develop a real friendship?
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Are you going to have expectations of me?
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Are you going to have, you know, yeah, just expectations?
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And so I was so touched by that because I thought, wow, I wouldn't have even had any
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idea that that's what she was thinking.
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She was so gracious and professional.
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And yet when she opened up and shared this, I was really touched to hear what she had
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to say and the fact that we were able by friendship and by, you know, just blessing to, you know,
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to break down a barrier, which is what we're trying to do, break down barriers and build
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friendships.
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Well, I mean, that story is eye-opening for me because I always think and it's something
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that a lot of our listeners may not know, but that the Easter week was actually the
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most anti-semitic week of the year.
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And historically, the Jewish people knew to stay inside.
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But to hear that story as a current modern-day story when she was in Russia is shocking,
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but it shouldn't be, but it is shocking.
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And here in Israel, I know we've talked about this many times that the Israeli people, they've
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grown up in a country where the majority are Jews.
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And so they don't know Christians.
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They know very few Christians, if any.
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And all they know is what they're taught in school, and all they're taught in school
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is the history of Christian anti-semitism.
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They don't know who is an evangelical, what makes an evangelical different, or that there
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even are these evangelicals that are different.
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They don't know any of that.
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So the relationship building is really a very long, detailed process.
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You have so much to teach them about Christianity, about Christians in the world today, and why
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you are really here, because they are going to be suspect.
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And I remember being here many years ago and meeting a man, an American Jewish man in the
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streets in Jerusalem outside of an ice cream shop.
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And as soon as he saw me, he said, what are you doing here?
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That was 40 years ago, but I've always remembered it.
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And I was like, I'm a student.
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I'm studying.
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I didn't understand whatsoever, but now I understand why he was on guard.
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So tell me, in dealing with the people of Israel, there's a lot of cultural things here that
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you also have to deal with.
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But when you go back to America, what strikes you immediately is so different because you're
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so used to things being done a certain way here?
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So recently, I was in America, and I needed to deal with some business at my bank.
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And you don't realize how acclimatized you become.
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Here you really have to stand on your own, and nobody's necessarily going to make things
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easy for you.
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Maybe they will.
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Maybe they won't.
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And I needed to take care of some business and to change something.
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I don't remember if it was the address or something, but they needed an extra document.
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Whatever they were asking wasn't very logical because I could easily have gotten around
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it.
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It doesn't matter.
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I don't remember the exact detail.
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I just remember that I was there with my mother, and I was starting to be a little too Israeli.
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I was, what do you mean?
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This doesn't make sense.
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And this and that.
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And I was actually internally watching the reaction of the woman behind the desk, and
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I could feel my mother sinking in her chair.
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And I realized they're actually hearing this differently.
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I'm thinking this is really not a big deal.
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We're having a discussion about this, why it doesn't make sense.
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But she was almost feeling a little threatened.
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And I realized I needed to change my tone and back off, and that would be fine.
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I'll be glad to go get that information.
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It's completely unnecessary in my opinion, but okay.
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And this is just what we need to do.
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We need to say it in a very calm and respectful tone, and don't start using your arms to talk.
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In any way, make it difficult for her.
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This is her job.
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This is what she needs.
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And I realized my mom's after, I was like, what was that all about?
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And I was like, yeah, I've just been living abroad for a long time.
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So things like that, sometimes you'll hear people on the street.
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It's a very animated conversation.
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If you don't speak Hebrew, it might sound like they're fighting and they're going to
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come to blows soon.
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And then later it's like, Pat's on the back, and okay, and off they go, and everything's
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fine.
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So Americans tend to be a little bit more reserved or polite.
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And I don't know how to explain this.
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There's certain conventions that you need to follow.
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In space.
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So when you stand in line, you don't stand right on top of the person next to you like
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they do here.
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Well, one of the things that I love about the Israeli people, and the Jewish people in
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general, is they love to ask questions.
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And it's actually a wonderful thing.
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And that's why in Judaism, they're encouraged to ask questions.
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And they learn in pairs so that they debate back and forth with each other.
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What a wonderful way to learn.
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Because if you've had to debate it, you've really learned that.
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You've thought it through.
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You've analyzed it.
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You've learned how to articulate.
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And so, but it's made the Jewish people very inquisitive.
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So they will ask almost any question and right up front, too.
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Definitely a very direct way of speaking.
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And it's appreciated when you speak directly back as well.
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So I think that's the best way to operate here.
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And it could be sometimes opposed to how you might do it in another country.
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You might speak more around an issue or it's just like, here, you don't ask how you voted
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in America.
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Here.
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Wow, what do you mean you're voting?
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Why would you do that?
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Everybody else is doing this.
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You know, that kind of stuff.
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I'm sure you've been asked a lot of times why you're doing what you're doing and what
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you believe.
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Do you have a story?
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Yes.
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So I remember a social worker that came to the office and she said to me at some point
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in the meeting, so what's the difference is to make to you Christians that were here in
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Israel or back in the land?
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Why do you care?
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And I was like, oh, why do I care?
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Let me see.
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Basically, the thought that came to me right then, and I still hold this to be true, is
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the reason why Christians care.
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First of all, because we love the Bible, we believe in the God of Israel.
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But what I said to her that day was when we look at what God is doing here in Israel,
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that He's brought you back to the land from all around the world, and it's such a miracle
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that's never happened for any other people.
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We see that God's faithful, and when we see that God is being faithful to you and to the
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promises in His Word, we know that we can be sure that He'll be faithful to us as well,
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and that is why we care.
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And I remember her thinking about that for a second and then saying, I never thought
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about it like that way before.
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Well, yeah, I think she had a whole different perspective on that, but often people want
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to know what made you come here, like Israelis.
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I mean, I have friends here.
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If their son from Jerusalem, if their son moves to Haifa, that's far away.
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What are you thinking?
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You need to be closer by in the Bishamish, at least.
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Somewhere that's close enough that you could come visit very often and not a few hours
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away.
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It's unfathomable for many of them that I would move from Oregon to Jerusalem and leave
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here for years.
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I mean, what must your parents be thinking about all this?
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And so, yes, they love to ask those questions like, what in the world?
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Okay, well, Nicola, I know you have many, many stories, but what I'd like to ask now
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as we bring our time to a close is, what advice would you give someone in our audience, either
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Jewish or Christian or both, that they really would like to begin working with each other?
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What advice would you give them?
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Well, I think over the years, we have a lot of preconceived ideas about one another.
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Whether Christians, for instance, have been taught quite a lot in our lives that Judaism
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is about works, and maybe they don't, we tend to think of it as, oh, that's just legalism,
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and we write it off.
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And by doing that, we can write off the very fervent, beautiful faith with such meaning
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of the Jewish people.
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And on the Jewish side, they maybe tend to think that, you know, we have an agenda.
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It's all about evangelism and making them be something else or trying to get them to
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deny their faith.
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And so I guess I would say, get to know one another.
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Take time to really, like I said in the beginning, without preconditions, get to know one another.
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Ask questions.
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Be respectful.
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Each come with, you know, share what they have to share and break down barriers by building
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trust.
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And that's what we need to do.
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We need to build trust.
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We need to build genuine friendships.
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And I think that the Lord delights in that when we honor one another and we bless one
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another and we can share honestly with one another.
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And it will help us work together in a really good way.
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And so I know many times I felt like, you know, because it's swirling around as far as a Christian,
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on the Christian side, oh, you're just here because you want to bring your Messiah or
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you want to make your prophecies come true.
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So it kind of minimizes the fact that I genuinely want to bless them and it's not so that something
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good happens for me, especially.
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And they on their side, you know, might feel like, oh, I'm just another, you know, box
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you can check that this is someone that I've said this or that too.
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And we're, as people, we're both so precious in the Lord's eyes.
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And if we really, really want to understand one another and work together, then we need
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to build genuine friendships and trust.
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Yes, that's really what it's about is building a friendship.
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And that takes time, but it takes being sincere and honest and just having respect for each
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other.
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So thank you, Nicole.
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We've learned so much in our time today.
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And I will see you all here back next week.
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And until then, God bless.
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We hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of Zion with Susan Michael.
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Be sure to subscribe to Out of Zion now on Apple podcasts, CPN shows.com, YouTube or
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wherever you like to listen and learn.
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Out of Zion with Susan Michael is a production of ICEJ USA All Rights Reserved.
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Welcome to the Israel Answers series, connecting Israel, the Bible, and you.
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Join Susan Michael as she explores timely issues and current events from a scriptural
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perspective to equip the Christian world with a balance and biblical response.
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Be sure to subscribe for future episodes, which will ignite your faith in bringing the
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Bible to life in your everyday world.
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Now let's join Susan with your Israel Answers.
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Well welcome to this week's interview on Jewish Christian Relations and Jews and Christians
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working together.
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We have with us today in this beautiful live studio in Jerusalem, a special guest, it's
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Nicole Yoder, and she is the Vice President for aid and aliyah at the International Christian
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Embassy Jerusalem.
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She's also a dear friend.
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She has been with our organization for 23 years now and she has just done such an amazing
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job here at the Embassy.
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We call her our hands and feet of love to the Jewish people because she runs all of our
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aid programs and she's fluent in Hebrew and is out every day working with the people of
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Israel showing them love and kindness and helps.
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And she has been interacting with them for 23 years now and has learned so much.
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We want to learn from her today about Jewish Christian relations and how these two groups
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can work together.
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So Nicole, I want to welcome you and would you just introduce yourself to the audience
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and tell us a little bit about your family background.
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I'm curious as to what in your background brought you to Israel.
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Well, thank you Susan.
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It's really a pleasure to be here with you and to be able to share with the audience
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as well.
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Well, I come from a strong Christian family.
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My father and my grandfather were pastors and my grandfather back in the 40s was going
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around teaching from his reading in the Bible that Israel should become a nation one day
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again.
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And of course, this is right at the end of World War II and there were not a few people
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who were telling him, you know, reprimanding him and telling him that this was a little
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bit crazy.
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And lo and behold, two years later it came to pass.
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And I'm very proud of this heritage actually.
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I so kind of grew up with that.
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But I can't honestly say I met any Jewish people at all growing up.
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I can't remember knowing anyone.
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I wasn't aware at all of Jewish Christian history.
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I think the first Jewish people that I actually met, I got the idea that they had the impression
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that there were Christians who didn't like them very well and I was genuinely puzzled
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why this would be.
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And so you can see that I had a lot to learn right from the beginning.
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But I think one of the things that interested me a lot as a child kind of inexplicably in
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a way was the Holocaust.
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And it came from watching movies, the sound of music and watching this family flee over
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the mountains and why did they have to flee at age 10?
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That was something that I wondered about.
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And then reading The Hiding Place and seeing the movie.
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And so Corey Tenboyman and her family became kind of heroes for me because they hid the
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Jewish people.
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And something from that, I just, I took it to heart and I was so curious about the Holocaust.
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I started reading books about the Holocaust and it was just something that really drew
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me and I was very curious about.
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But it wasn't until much later when I was studying in college that I was actually introduced
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to Jewish people and began to learn something about their culture.
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And the Lord turned a light on somehow in my mind and heart about the topic and I became
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actually very passionate and excited about what he was doing in this country at that
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time.
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Well, it's interesting.
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You know, you had the heritage.
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So then something happened though, right?
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You were watching a documentary and tell that story.
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So I guess because of the Holocaust, I had a kind of an interest in anti-Semitism.
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I mean, the Holocaust, obviously, I've never seen it as a Christian thing, even though,
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unfortunately, our history definitely contributed towards the fact that it happened later.
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But I basically was in a situation where friends were watching a four-part series on the Jewish
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roots of Christianity and one of the videos was on anti-Semitism.
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And somehow I'm sitting there watching this video taught by a rabbi about anti-Semitism
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and the Lord just spoke to me like an arrow straight to the heart.
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And it was so strong, go love and bless this people.
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Now, I have to be honest with you.
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I thought this was an absolutely crazy idea.
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I was 22 years old, just finished my degree.
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The Gulf War had just happened.
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Like I don't know anybody in Israel.
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I have zero money, like less than zero money because I have school loans to pay.
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And I pretty much tidily summed up that this was not going to happen, very practical mind.
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And I would have forgotten about it.
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But the following week, I happened to have the opportunity to hear a friend who had just
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come back from Israel and was sharing her experiences.
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And somehow the thing happened again, arrow to the heart, go love and bless this people.
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And it was so strong and so not what I was thinking about and so not what I would have
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thought of that I thought, okay, now I better pray about this.
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And so I basically said, Lord, if this is from you, then you make it happen.
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And he did in some really interesting ways.
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I ended up being offered to go and care for a Jewish woman in Israel who didn't speak
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any English.
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She's a stroke victim.
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She was, you know, needed people to just help her with her daily living.
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And one of my main complaints was I don't have any money.
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That's why I mean, how would I ever do that?
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And yet I said, Lord, if you open a door, I'll step through it.
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And that's where I got myself in trouble because the door that was opening was this elderly,
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non-English speaking Jewish woman who needed help.
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And she was going to offer me a place to stay and a few shekels for food.
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And I'm like, okay, that's a door.
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And I said I'd step through it.
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And that's how it happened.
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I came.
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Well, I apologize for the siren, but these are the sights and the sounds of Jerusalem
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here in the background.
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So Nicole, that was the perfect introduction then to what you ended up doing here through
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the ICEJ.
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It was caring for people.
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And you went on and got a master's degree in social work, right?
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Or what was the name of it?
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International Community Development.
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And you have been working full time for the whole 23 years in social work here on behalf
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of the ICEJ.
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So tell us, you're now an expert at working with Jewish people, particularly Israelis,
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which is a special group of Jewish people.
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They have a certain culture and a language.
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And tell us some of the lessons you've learned along the way as you've been working with
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them.
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How has it impacted you?
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I think maybe in the beginning, when I was just first in Israel, first of all, I had
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a lot to learn.
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I knew very little in many ways.
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And you have your ideas that you want to come and bless and what that looks like.
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And one of the things that I learned was to develop trust and friendship with people
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and let them take the lead in asking questions and not to think that you know everything,
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even about the Bible or faith.
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There's so much richness, even in the Jewish tradition and faith.
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And sometimes I think we Christians have a tendency to come along and say, well, how
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come they don't see it the way we do?
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And sometimes when you come on strong and you say things in a certain viewpoint, I can
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remember times just seeing the shutters close.
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They just didn't feel the dialogue.
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And maybe there was a certain expectation that was rejected.
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And so I learned to be in the friendship and let that be what led instead of just get rid
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of any agendas, get rid of any ideas of how things ought to be or I don't know.
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That's maybe not quite the way to put it.
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Yeah, and serve, serve.
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Well, do you have any, like, some of your favorite stories about interacting with the
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people?
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You know, one of the things that I have the privilege of doing is being all over Israel
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in every sector of Israeli society and come across a lot of people who haven't really
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been around Christians very much.
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And sometimes you're really surprised.
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I remember being in one meeting where the woman's like, we said, you know, we're from
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the International Christian Embassy and whatnot.
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And she's like, wait, just stop.
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Where?
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Let me take this in for a minute.
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She just wanted to sit for a second and just take that in.
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And there's a social worker in particular that I remember in Netanya that was a Russian
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immigrant.
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She hadn't been in the country so very long.
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And we were there for a specific project and sharing with her.
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And you know, the thing is, you often don't know what's going on in someone's mind or
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heart and you may find out later and you may not.
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That's why I say, don't come with expectations and don't come with, you know, ideas of how
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things should or could be.
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You don't know what's going on behind in someone's mind and just bless and offer friendship
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without expectations.
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So that's what we were doing.
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We were blessing the people.
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And at some point we decided to invite all the people that were relating to the embassy
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for a day so they could meet us beyond just the two of us.
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I was there with another colleague.
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They could meet the embassy.
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And we decided we're going to roll out the red carpet.
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We made it such a nice event.
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We had people serving our dervishes and we had live music and we, you know, gave them
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each a gift and we explained who we were and all of this.
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Anyways, and we gave people an opportunity to respond.
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And I remember the social worker said, you know, I come from Russia and I am, you know,
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I grew up in a very anti-Semitic environment.
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And I was always, we always knew when it was a Christian holiday, stay indoors, stay off
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the streets because bad things can happen.
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And she said, you know, I just knew that Christianity was scary and stays far away from it as possible.
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But then you and you did come along.
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And she said, you're probably the first Christians that I ever had very close contact with.
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And she said, and you've invited us here today.
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And I've started to learn something and she says, I've discovered that there's a whole
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another world out there that I didn't even realize existed.
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And it's not as scary as I always thought it was.
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And that's what you often find is that, that there's certain perceptions or things that
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are told about Christians and who we are.
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And quite frankly, sometimes those are really accurate descriptions, either from past things
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that have happened or from even current things.
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And it can be confusing for the people to understand who are you really.
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And so there's a certain level of, you know, kind of testing or testing is the right word,
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but sort of, you know, standing back and looking at the situation and until they find out,
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like who are you and are you a person that is trustworthy and can we develop a real friendship?
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Are you going to have expectations of me?
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Are you going to have, you know, yeah, just expectations?
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And so I was so touched by that because I thought, wow, I wouldn't have even had any
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idea that that's what she was thinking.
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She was so gracious and professional.
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And yet when she opened up and shared this, I was really touched to hear what she had
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to say and the fact that we were able by friendship and by, you know, just blessing to, you know,
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to break down a barrier, which is what we're trying to do, break down barriers and build
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friendships.
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Well, I mean, that story is eye-opening for me because I always think and it's something
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that a lot of our listeners may not know, but that the Easter week was actually the
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most anti-semitic week of the year.
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And historically, the Jewish people knew to stay inside.
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But to hear that story as a current modern-day story when she was in Russia is shocking,
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but it shouldn't be, but it is shocking.
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And here in Israel, I know we've talked about this many times that the Israeli people, they've
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grown up in a country where the majority are Jews.
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And so they don't know Christians.
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They know very few Christians, if any.
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And all they know is what they're taught in school, and all they're taught in school
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is the history of Christian anti-semitism.
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They don't know who is an evangelical, what makes an evangelical different, or that there
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even are these evangelicals that are different.
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They don't know any of that.
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So the relationship building is really a very long, detailed process.
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You have so much to teach them about Christianity, about Christians in the world today, and why
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you are really here, because they are going to be suspect.
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And I remember being here many years ago and meeting a man, an American Jewish man in the
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streets in Jerusalem outside of an ice cream shop.
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And as soon as he saw me, he said, what are you doing here?
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That was 40 years ago, but I've always remembered it.
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And I was like, I'm a student.
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I'm studying.
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I didn't understand whatsoever, but now I understand why he was on guard.
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So tell me, in dealing with the people of Israel, there's a lot of cultural things here that
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you also have to deal with.
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But when you go back to America, what strikes you immediately is so different because you're
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so used to things being done a certain way here?
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So recently, I was in America, and I needed to deal with some business at my bank.
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And you don't realize how acclimatized you become.
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Here you really have to stand on your own, and nobody's necessarily going to make things
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easy for you.
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Maybe they will.
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Maybe they won't.
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And I needed to take care of some business and to change something.
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I don't remember if it was the address or something, but they needed an extra document.
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Whatever they were asking wasn't very logical because I could easily have gotten around
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it.
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It doesn't matter.
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I don't remember the exact detail.
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I just remember that I was there with my mother, and I was starting to be a little too Israeli.
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I was, what do you mean?
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This doesn't make sense.
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And this and that.
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And I was actually internally watching the reaction of the woman behind the desk, and
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I could feel my mother sinking in her chair.
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And I realized they're actually hearing this differently.
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I'm thinking this is really not a big deal.
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We're having a discussion about this, why it doesn't make sense.
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But she was almost feeling a little threatened.
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And I realized I needed to change my tone and back off, and that would be fine.
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I'll be glad to go get that information.
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It's completely unnecessary in my opinion, but okay.
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And this is just what we need to do.
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We need to say it in a very calm and respectful tone, and don't start using your arms to talk.
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In any way, make it difficult for her.
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This is her job.
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This is what she needs.
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And I realized my mom's after, I was like, what was that all about?
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And I was like, yeah, I've just been living abroad for a long time.
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So things like that, sometimes you'll hear people on the street.
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It's a very animated conversation.
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If you don't speak Hebrew, it might sound like they're fighting and they're going to
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come to blows soon.
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And then later it's like, Pat's on the back, and okay, and off they go, and everything's
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fine.
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So Americans tend to be a little bit more reserved or polite.
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And I don't know how to explain this.
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There's certain conventions that you need to follow.
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In space.
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So when you stand in line, you don't stand right on top of the person next to you like
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they do here.
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Well, one of the things that I love about the Israeli people, and the Jewish people in
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general, is they love to ask questions.
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And it's actually a wonderful thing.
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And that's why in Judaism, they're encouraged to ask questions.
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And they learn in pairs so that they debate back and forth with each other.
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What a wonderful way to learn.
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Because if you've had to debate it, you've really learned that.
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You've thought it through.
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You've analyzed it.
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You've learned how to articulate.
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And so, but it's made the Jewish people very inquisitive.
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So they will ask almost any question and right up front, too.
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Definitely a very direct way of speaking.
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And it's appreciated when you speak directly back as well.
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So I think that's the best way to operate here.
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And it could be sometimes opposed to how you might do it in another country.
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You might speak more around an issue or it's just like, here, you don't ask how you voted
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in America.
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Here.
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Wow, what do you mean you're voting?
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Why would you do that?
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Everybody else is doing this.
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You know, that kind of stuff.
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I'm sure you've been asked a lot of times why you're doing what you're doing and what
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you believe.
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Do you have a story?
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Yes.
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So I remember a social worker that came to the office and she said to me at some point
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in the meeting, so what's the difference is to make to you Christians that were here in
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Israel or back in the land?
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Why do you care?
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And I was like, oh, why do I care?
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Let me see.
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Basically, the thought that came to me right then, and I still hold this to be true, is
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the reason why Christians care.
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First of all, because we love the Bible, we believe in the God of Israel.
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But what I said to her that day was when we look at what God is doing here in Israel,
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that He's brought you back to the land from all around the world, and it's such a miracle
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that's never happened for any other people.
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We see that God's faithful, and when we see that God is being faithful to you and to the
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promises in His Word, we know that we can be sure that He'll be faithful to us as well,
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and that is why we care.
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And I remember her thinking about that for a second and then saying, I never thought
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about it like that way before.
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Well, yeah, I think she had a whole different perspective on that, but often people want
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to know what made you come here, like Israelis.
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I mean, I have friends here.
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If their son from Jerusalem, if their son moves to Haifa, that's far away.
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What are you thinking?
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You need to be closer by in the Bishamish, at least.
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Somewhere that's close enough that you could come visit very often and not a few hours
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away.
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It's unfathomable for many of them that I would move from Oregon to Jerusalem and leave
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here for years.
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I mean, what must your parents be thinking about all this?
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And so, yes, they love to ask those questions like, what in the world?
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Okay, well, Nicola, I know you have many, many stories, but what I'd like to ask now
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as we bring our time to a close is, what advice would you give someone in our audience, either
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Jewish or Christian or both, that they really would like to begin working with each other?
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What advice would you give them?
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Well, I think over the years, we have a lot of preconceived ideas about one another.
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Whether Christians, for instance, have been taught quite a lot in our lives that Judaism
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is about works, and maybe they don't, we tend to think of it as, oh, that's just legalism,
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and we write it off.
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And by doing that, we can write off the very fervent, beautiful faith with such meaning
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of the Jewish people.
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And on the Jewish side, they maybe tend to think that, you know, we have an agenda.
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It's all about evangelism and making them be something else or trying to get them to
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deny their faith.
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And so I guess I would say, get to know one another.
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Take time to really, like I said in the beginning, without preconditions, get to know one another.
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Ask questions.
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Be respectful.
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Each come with, you know, share what they have to share and break down barriers by building
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trust.
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And that's what we need to do.
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We need to build trust.
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We need to build genuine friendships.
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And I think that the Lord delights in that when we honor one another and we bless one
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another and we can share honestly with one another.
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And it will help us work together in a really good way.
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And so I know many times I felt like, you know, because it's swirling around as far as a Christian,
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on the Christian side, oh, you're just here because you want to bring your Messiah or
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you want to make your prophecies come true.
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So it kind of minimizes the fact that I genuinely want to bless them and it's not so that something
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good happens for me, especially.
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And they on their side, you know, might feel like, oh, I'm just another, you know, box
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you can check that this is someone that I've said this or that too.
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And we're, as people, we're both so precious in the Lord's eyes.
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And if we really, really want to understand one another and work together, then we need
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to build genuine friendships and trust.
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Yes, that's really what it's about is building a friendship.
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And that takes time, but it takes being sincere and honest and just having respect for each
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other.
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So thank you, Nicole.
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We've learned so much in our time today.
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And I will see you all here back next week.
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And until then, God bless.
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We hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of Zion with Susan Michael.
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Be sure to subscribe to Out of Zion now on Apple podcasts, CPN shows.com, YouTube or
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wherever you like to listen and learn.
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Out of Zion with Susan Michael is a production of ICEJ USA All Rights Reserved.
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