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April 22, 2021
The Tabernacle at Shiloh with Dr. Scott Stripling (Going Deeper Series)
Susan interviews Dr. Scott Stripling the director of excavations at ancient Shiloh. He describes the exciting archaeological evidence he has uncovered pointing to a sacrificial system at Shiloh and verifying the history of the city found in the Bible.
Dr. Scott Stripling's latest book "Five Views on the Exodus" on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310108748/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_29BWBJYBJ660F35VV36T
To dig at Shloh with Dr. Stripling apply at http://www.digshiloh.org
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More info on Susan: https://www.icejusa.org/susans-blog
Transcript
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Welcome to Out of Zion with Susan Michael, an exploration of the Bible and the land of
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Israel.
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From ancient biblical sites to the story behind the stories, join Susan on a journey through
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the most exciting book on the planet.
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Hit the subscribe button for future episodes, which will deepen your faith and bring the
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Bible to life.
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And now, here's our host, Susan Michael.
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Well, hey there and welcome back.
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This is our Going Deeper series this week, where we're going to be discussing Shiloh,
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the Tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant that was there for so many years.
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And there are some really exciting archeological digs and finds that have been taking place
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in recent years.
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And we are so excited to have with us today Dr. Scott Stripling, who has been the director
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of the excavations at Shiloh.
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So let me tell you just a little bit about him before we get started.
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In addition to being the director of excavations for the associates for biblical research
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at ancient Shiloh, he also serves as the provost and director of the Archeology Institute
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at the Bible Seminary in Katie, Texas.
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And Dr. Stripling did his graduate studies at the University of Texas, the Assemblies
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of God Theological Seminary, and at Veritas International University.
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He began volunteering on archeological excavations in the early 2000s, which ultimately led to
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him directing excavations.
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And so he served as the supervisor of the Temple Mount Sifting Project, which we will
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probably have him on another show later on that we can just talk about the Temple Mount
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findings.
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He also was field supervisor at Tel El Haman, which is one of the candidate sites for the
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city of Sodom.
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And then he was director of excavations at Kerbet El Makatir, which he linked as the
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site of AI in Joshua and also in Ephraim of John 11.
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So as director of excavations at Tel Shiloh, he has led the first three seasons of excavations
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there and they've been put on hold due to corona.
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I know he's anxious to get back.
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In the meantime, he has a new book that's hot off the press about the Exodus.
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It's called The Five Views of the Exodus.
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And so we're going to link to that in our show notes for you after you've heard Dr. Stripling.
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I'm sure you'd like to read some of his writings.
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He's published widely in peer reviewed journals and is a popular speaker and teacher around
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the world.
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And his passion is connecting the material culture of the Holy Land with the biblical
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text.
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And so Dr. Stripling, a very warm welcome to you.
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Thank you for joining us today.
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Well thank you Susan for that kind introduction.
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It's great to be with you.
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Yes.
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So I know you've been involved in Christian ministry and church leadership and teaching
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in seminaries.
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And I know that your faith is important to you and your strong belief in the Bible.
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So I want you to first just share with our audience how you bring your belief in the
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Bible to the field of archaeology and how that might be different from others in the
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field and what that difference means for you.
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Well that's a great question.
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I do not bifurcate my belief system from how I practice in the field because we're dealing
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with the land of the Bible.
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And so the Bible is our go to source for that part of the world and take Shiloh for example.
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It's not mentioned in the Mesopotamian literature or the Egyptian literature or anywhere else
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except the Bible.
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And so I presuppositionally take the Bible as a reliable historical document.
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And that of course would be different from what I would say the majority of archaeologists
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would do.
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Even if they use the Bible they're probably not taking it as being historically reliable
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in the same sense that we would take other secular literature.
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I do and I have found a great synchronism between the material culture and the biblical
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text and I'm always eager to talk about that.
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Now we have talked a lot in our first few weeks of our walk through the Bible series
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about some of the archaeological evidence that may support the biblical narrative but
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yet there are so many in the world of archaeology and the scholars that will say, no there's
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no proof that any of that happened.
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And so we're helping them to understand.
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It's not that the archaeology isn't there or certain findings.
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It's how it's interpreted and it's also how it's dated.
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And so as we have progressed in our reading we're now up to Judges and First Samuel and
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we're reading about Shiloh and so it's a little bit more advanced and archaeology is a little
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bit easier I think to date and to understand.
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So that's a great segue to our real subject today which is Shiloh and I'll just explain
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for our audience in English we pronounce it Shiloh.
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In Hebrew it is Shiloh or Shiloh and so we may go back and forth in our pronunciation
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but it is the city of Shiloh and what you've uncovered there about the existence of the
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tabernacle which also has the Ark of the Covenant is what we're really interested in hearing
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about.
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So please first would you remind our listeners about the biblical history of Shiloh what
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took place there according to the Bible?
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Absolutely and first let me echo what you said the chronology is the key because if
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we're looking in the wrong time or the wrong place then we're going to find the wrong stuff.
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And so sometimes you'll hear people say that archaeology contradicts the Bible.
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Well they're two centuries off.
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You're looking in the wrong layer what we would call the wrong stratum and so that is
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really really important.
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But what we are doing at Shiloh is a multi-year excavation on the northern slope and it's
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sort of like draining the water in a bathtub where we're starting at the top where we have
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early Islamic material and then we go through that down through the Byzantine material
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down into the early Roman material which would be time of Jesus New Testament and then into
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the late Hellenistic period what we might call inter-testamental period and then down
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into the Iron Age II the period of the divided kingdom the period of the the prophet Ahaziah
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at Shiloh and then finally down into Iron I what we would call the period of the Tabernacle
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and LB II, Late Bronze II which is when the period of the Tabernacle first started at
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Shiloh then into the Prius for Light stratum.
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So we go down identifying the layers as we go carefully recording the material culture
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that we're uncovering and we're uncovering some really really interesting things.
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Well tell us what have you discovered from that time period when the Tabernacle was there?
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Well we are the third major expedition to Shiloh so the Danish worked for four seasons
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in the 1920s there.
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I'm sort of primitive by our standards today but generally speaking for what they had at
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the time they did a good job the Israelis by our line university did a dig in the 1980s
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for four seasons but still less than 5% of the site was excavated so there was a lot
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of conjecture and we felt a lot of questions that needed to be answered and so we launched
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a new excavation in 2017 we completed three years we were not able to dig last summer
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unfortunately but we have high hopes of being back in the field this summer.
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So what have we found in our first three seasons that would create a verisimilitude a linkage
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between the material culture and the biblical text.
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We have a I believe evidence of a sacrificial system that's operating there when the Bible
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says that the Israelites were there.
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We get a change in material culture so for example we have 4% pig bone in the earlier
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stratum stratum 8 and stratum 7 and then once we get into the Israelite stratum it
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drops to 1%.
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We see the pottery change we begin to find things like ceramic palm granites which is
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a motif of the tabernacle if you remember the high priest had bells and palm granites
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alternating on his the hem of his garment and we have found two of those so far demolished
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altar horns destruction matrix a bone deposit that what we would call a 5 visa with bones
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only from the biblical sacrificial system in it full of late bronze to pottery from the
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initial period of the tabernacle at Shiloh as well and then a series of storage rooms
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that appear appear to encircle the site with dozens and dozens of massive pitoy or storage
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jars the classic Israelite collard rim storage jar and then finally we are unearthing a monumental
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building from the iron one which would be the time of Eli and Samuel and Hanan and so
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forth and it orients to the east west and we don't yet know exactly what it was but
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we're very interested to finish excavating this building.
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Okay so let me kind of dissect what you just said for our audience.
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So the city of Shiloh was there of course before the Israelites took it over and it
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was it an Amorite city is that right?
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And the Amorite period is considered is that new bronze?
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No so the the it would begin in middle bronze and then continue into the into the late bronze
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yes.
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Right.
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So for our readers because we're not archaeologists so we don't always know these terminology
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the bronze age was when weapons and cutlery stuff was made out of bronze and so it's called
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the bronze age and there was the early middle and late bronze and then weaponry they learned
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how to melt iron and combine it with other things to make it strong and so that became
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the predominant method of making weapons so it's called the iron age and you always jump
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in and correct me if I get any of that wrong.
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No you're doing great.
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So the Israelite period for Shiloh began in late bronze and went into iron age is that
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right?
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That's right 1400 would be the arrival of Joshua in the Israelites give or take a year
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and that's important because if you if you're in the wrong century then you know you're
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going to appear to not have evidence that coincides with the Bible and I appreciate
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the plug for the new book 5 views on the Exodus and in chapter 1 folks can read all about
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the reasoning of why we would place Joshua in the Israelites at Shiloh at the end of
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what we would call the late bronze one period.
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Late bronze okay great all right I just wanted to explain that and so the the remains of
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you said a sacrificial system indications that of that let's start with the storage
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the storage room and the storage jars because tell us how they why they are all these storage
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jars what did that mean to you?
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Well first of all there's no other site in Israel that has storage rooms surrounding
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the perimeter.
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Folks who are familiar with Israel can picture maybe a site like Bersheva in the south in
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the Negev that has four room houses encircling the site but what we have here only at Shiloh
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are storage rooms and of course that's a great example of verisimilitude because that's what
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you would expect people like Hannah and Elkana came to Shiloh they paid their tithe as they
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were commanded and they couldn't go to Tabernacle.org and make a secure online donation or write
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a check or anything like that they brought commodity and so what would we expect to find
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at a place where many many people are bringing their agricultural tithe storage rooms and
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inside those storage rooms we have these collard rim jars and lots of them so we're in the
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process of restoring all of these jars and they're talking to us you know just like Jesus
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said the stones would cry out was an archaeologist you know these artifacts Susan when they come
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out of the ground they're mute they have to be interpreted and they're interpreted through
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life experience through training and so they're talking to us and and after three seasons
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I think we've now got a good picture of what was happening in antiquity at biblical Shiloh.
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And tell us a little bit more about the pomegranate that you found.
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Okay the ceramic pomegranate was just about two inches in size it has a calyx at the bottom
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where it's beginning to flower and of the seven fruits that the Israelites were promised
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when they came into the land sacred fruits if you will it was only the pomegranate that
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went into the presence of God on the hem of the high priest's garments later in Solomon's
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temple 200 pomegranates adorned Solomon's temple so I think it had to do with the pomegranate
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representing God's abundance his fecundity the that that idea that exponential growth
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is possible with all these seeds within a pomegranate so it's a motif of the tabernacle
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they have been found in Israel only at Levitical sites either priestly or Levitical sites like
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Yolk-Niamh for example and so what do we begin to find ceramic pomegranates so again sort
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of inductively you've got storage rooms you've got pomegranates and we begin to layer upon
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layer pick piece together what life was like at that time so it was a little like a two
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inch ceramic pomegranate that you believe was on the hem of the priestly garment well
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I can't say that that this hung from Eli's robe for example I can just tell you that
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the Bible says that there were pomegranates depicted either it was a combination bell
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pomegranate or a pomegranate separately those are the two things on the hems of the priest's
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garments and what we are finding are pomegranates I mean ours may have hung from a cult stand
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or something like that so I can't say that with certainty but it's possible I do have
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a replica here if you'd like to see it so this is a replica of the pomegranate this
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is you know a baby pomegranate you can see where it would hang there and then here's
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the calyx on the bottom where it opens up and the typical pomegranate has 613 seeds
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just like the commandments in the Hebrew Bible. Wow, isn't that amazing. I've tried to count
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them a number of times but I've always lost count but that's what the expert says that
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there are 613 seeds. Yes and so these pomegranates had 613 seeds in them and then of course in
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the corners of the garments were tassels which were to be a reminder also of the 613 commandments
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so wow that is really fascinating. You also mentioned the horn a broken horn of an altar
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could you just explain us what is a horn of an altar what is it what was it for what
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does it look like. You know as a beginning Bible reader you start reading all these strange
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things like he grabbed hold of the horns of the altar and you're picturing animal horns
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exactly. They could not use metal tools on the sacred altar so they had to find stones
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that naturally had a curvature toward them like a horn and then those would be used
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as the corners of an altar and so you know in the cities of refuge for example somebody
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could find refuge by grabbing hold of the horns of the altar but normally they were
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used to buying the sacrifice and that sacrifice Susan I think answers you know we're looking
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at Passover right around the corner and that answers I think the most basic of all human
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questions like how do we messed up as we are how do we connect with a perfect and holy
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God and it was through the sacrificial system that they were able to do that I mean Leviticus
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11 clearly says without the shedding of blood there I'm sorry Leviticus 1711 says without
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the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin and so they needed to repair their
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relationships vertically with God and horizontally with each other just like we do and the sacrificial
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system enabled them to do that. And so the altar would be a big stone slab. Yeah multiple
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stones okay that are pieced kind of interlocked and worked together and then the corner pieces
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would be horns that would come up and what we found were three of them in a one was in
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secondary usage it had been reused and then another was just a couple of feet away and
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then the third one was in a destruction matrix sealed under a plastered floor and we were
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able to carbon date it and with the pottery date it to about 1075 BC which is exactly
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the time of the Philistine destruction of Shiloh. Now this is really exciting where
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archaeology doesn't change the biblical text it illuminates the biblical text because the
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Bible doesn't come right out in first Samuel and tell you that the Philistines destroyed
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Shiloh but it implies it and then Psalm 78 strongly implies a destruction of Shiloh but
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it doesn't explicitly state it. So what we're able to do in archaeology is say okay it implies
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it and now we have evidence of that destruction and of a demolished altar in that matrix.
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Okay very interesting well you also mentioned something that I find so exciting and that's
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bones who would think that bones are exciting right but you said that in the pre-Israelite
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part of the findings you found pig bones but in the Israelite period your archaeology didn't
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have any which of course just corroborates that it was an Israelite city a place of worship
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where they kept it pure and they didn't have pigs there. Right now we have about less than
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one percent pig bones there's a tiny amount but that could be contamination from the other
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stratum and you know or a wild hog it's hard hard to know but there is a clear difference.
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Now in that in our bone deposit from the Late Bronze II period our fa visa in our area D
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that appears to be where they're dumping the bones after the sacrifice right over the the
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city wall and it accumulates over a couple of centuries so it's a lot of bone there with
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pottery in our mix as if they're libations drink offerings and then the vessel itself
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is being broken or or offered. Now here's where the Bible reader has an advantage what
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we found because we test every bone you know we execute thousands a year and then we have
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a zoo archaeologist at Tel Aviv University they'll do a complete analysis of these bones
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for us each year we found that there's a disproportionate percentage of those bones from the right
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side of the animal to the left side of the animal so something like 60 to 65 percent
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are from the right side and 30 35 percent from the left side now statistically that's
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impossible and so you know what does one do when one is not a Bible reader you just note
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it but you have no interpretation as a Bible reader your mind immediately goes to Leviticus
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chapter 7 unless you slept through Leviticus that you go to Leviticus 7 and you read that
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the right side of the animal is the priest's portion. Ah now you begin to connect the dots
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of what was happening in ancient Shiloh. Wow and so you've discovered that over 60 percent
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of the bones were from the right side of the animal. In the bone deposit yes. So all these
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indications it's not like you have actually found anything from the tabernacle itself
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but a lot of indications that this is where it was this is where there was a sacrificial
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system this is where there was worship there were priests with hymns and garments and and
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so how and you've only excavated a very very small part of the city is that right. Right
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we've been there three seasons and of course our technology is far more advanced than it
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was in the previous excavations and we're blessed to have a large excavation team any
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of your listeners would be very welcome to join us they can just go to digshiloh.org to
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get the details but we yeah we've done in our three seasons maybe three percent of the
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site that we've excavated so far so we still have a lot of answers that are underground.
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Who knows what is there and I read that your excavation I think for two years in a row
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was the largest excavation taking place in Israel at the time and I know it's it's it
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would take a long time to and a lot of money to excavate the whole site but I know you're
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you're you can't wait to get back there. Well we take Jeremiah 712 very seriously Jeremiah
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712 says go now to Shiloh. And Dr. Stifling you alluded to the new technology tell us
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some of the new things that you've got that are helping and aiding archaeology today.
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Well super exciting we have an infield lab that we have infrared and ultraviolet lighting
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in the fields we built a little laboratory so we can examine every shard of pottery and
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every object before we discard it in other words we have to make a decision what we're
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going to say for further scientific study and what we're not and so before as part of
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that decision making process we examine it under this lighting to make sure we're not
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missing something that the naked eye can't can't see. We fly drones you know morning
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afternoon and evening so we have all these thousands of shots that we're able to compress
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which is kind of funny because only six or seven years ago when we first flew a drone
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everyone stopped working and got their cameras out to take a picture of this drone and now
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it's like second nature. The drones can take spot on photos we hover it right over each
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archaeological square and that picture is better than we can draw it so I mean we don't
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even have our supervisors drawing the squares anymore because we take a perfect photo every
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day and then we update that in the iPad so my supervisors are all entering data in their
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iPads and that's all then coming to my computer so that I'm getting data making real time
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decisions or data driven decisions in the field and that's very different from what
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we had in the past where archaeologists had a hunch you know about something I do get
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hunches but I try to back them up with data driven decisions and probably the most important
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technology is our wet sifting. We have invested in a massive washing station or a wet sifting
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station and we are the first excavation to wholesale wash and wet sift everything that
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we dig so after it's been dug then after it's been dry sifted to check to make sure that
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things weren't missed then we have another protocol where we tag it properly take it
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down to our wash station and wash it and Susan what we're finding is revolutionary. For every
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one scarab that we used to find we're now finding four and a half and we verified this we went
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back to old dump piles from the 1980s and we found more in their dump piles than they
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found in their excavation so sadly excavations in the past have been throwing away the majority
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of the evidence and not intentionally of course but we're now trying to share this technology
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with everyone and let them know we can't keep throwing away the evidence and if somebody
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tells you well we excavated such and such a place and we didn't find evidence that corroborated
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the Bible well I guess not when we're throwing away the evidence in our in our dump piles
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so this is an exciting new season that we're in. Well it is and you know I know that when
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I was studying about Shiloh I was really surprised to see how long the tavernacle was there at
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Shiloh I mean this was a a central place of worship for how many years? Oh that's a good
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question there's a little confusion about that the Bible gives us a little over three centuries
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which is a long time so while Jerusalem is still a pagan city Shiloh is the center of
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Israelite life and worship. The Seder Olam tells us and that's a second century AD document tells
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us that the tavernacle was at Shiloh for 369 years and that's the date that you'll often hear used
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that doesn't really synchronize with the internal biblical data so I just tend to say that it was
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there for over three centuries but it would be closer to 300 than 369. Well that's still a long time.
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Yeah well it's an American that's yeah that's longer than our history. Exactly and when we
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say the tavernacle was there was the Ark of the Covenant there that whole time in the tavernacle?
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Yes and that's what's so exciting is that the presence of God was there. God said in Jeremiah
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712 that's where I caused my name to dwell. I mean that's where God lived remember God's speaking
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to Samuel from the Holy of Holies and it's just incredible yeah that this is where the Ark of
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the Covenant rested and where God's presence dwelt and you know the research that we're doing on that
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is just really really phenomenal. I filmed a new series with History Channel two or three months ago
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called Secrets of the Lost Ark I think was the title it'll come out in September or October this
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fall and you know we'll get into a great depth on the Ark of the Covenant at Shiloh but suffice
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it to say that when when I'm working there I don't really lose the sense of awe you know the
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long hours and lots of lots of work and responsibility but to me there's really a sense of awe that
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we're dealing with holy important things and we're dealing with them scientifically and
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academically and I happen to be of the belief that you could do both simultaneously. Well I
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can't imagine what it's like for you to to actually stand there or sit there on the dust
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at Shiloh and to close your eyes and picture all of that history all that biblical history all the
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the worship the priest that everything and to think that you are sitting right there and that
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you are in charge of uncovering the evidence and what's left over. It's awesome. It's awesome.
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Just when when you're reminding me right now I'm getting goosebumps I mean it is an awesome
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privilege and responsibility and I often think about Psalm 102-14
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I mean, O Zion, blessed are those who love your dust and cherish your stones and so the dust well
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may bother a lot of people to me I like it in my eyes and my nose and my ears and you know
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ingesting it and that's how you really get to know Eretz Israel the land of the Bible
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walking it's great and traveling it's great but come dig with us and let it become one with you
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and you'll really have a new perspective then. Well Dr. Strictly I want to thank you first
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of all for your work because you are helping to uncover the proof of our biblical text and that
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means that this book is accurate we can base our faith on it we can base our lives on it and the
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God that is behind it and so I want to thank you for your work and I want to thank you for giving
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of your time today to speak to us we're going to link in the show notes just right down below
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to Dr. Stripling's book and also he mentioned how you or maybe someone in your family could sign up
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to go on the Archaeological Dig at digshiloh.org and we can't wait to see the History Channel
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program on Secrets of the Lost Ark that sounds intriguing but thank you for your time today and
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we look forward to having you back again where we can discuss some of the other exciting finds that
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are taking place today in the land of the Bible so thank you so much Dr. Stripling. Thank you Susan
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and I appreciate the good work that your organization is doing Shalom. Shalom Shalom and thank you
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everybody for joining us today take advantage of the resources and the show notes below and
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we'll see you back here in just a few days for our next walk through the Bible episode so see you
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then and until then God bless. We hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of Zion with Susan
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Michael be sure to subscribe to Out of Zion now on Apple Podcasts, cpnshows.com, YouTube or wherever
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you like to listen and learn. Out of Zion with Susan Michael is a production of ICEJ USA All Rights
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Reserved.
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Welcome to Out of Zion with Susan Michael, an exploration of the Bible and the land of
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Israel.
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From ancient biblical sites to the story behind the stories, join Susan on a journey through
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the most exciting book on the planet.
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Hit the subscribe button for future episodes, which will deepen your faith and bring the
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Bible to life.
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And now, here's our host, Susan Michael.
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Well, hey there and welcome back.
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This is our Going Deeper series this week, where we're going to be discussing Shiloh,
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the Tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant that was there for so many years.
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And there are some really exciting archeological digs and finds that have been taking place
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in recent years.
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And we are so excited to have with us today Dr. Scott Stripling, who has been the director
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of the excavations at Shiloh.
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So let me tell you just a little bit about him before we get started.
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In addition to being the director of excavations for the associates for biblical research
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at ancient Shiloh, he also serves as the provost and director of the Archeology Institute
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at the Bible Seminary in Katie, Texas.
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And Dr. Stripling did his graduate studies at the University of Texas, the Assemblies
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of God Theological Seminary, and at Veritas International University.
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He began volunteering on archeological excavations in the early 2000s, which ultimately led to
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him directing excavations.
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And so he served as the supervisor of the Temple Mount Sifting Project, which we will
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probably have him on another show later on that we can just talk about the Temple Mount
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findings.
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He also was field supervisor at Tel El Haman, which is one of the candidate sites for the
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city of Sodom.
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And then he was director of excavations at Kerbet El Makatir, which he linked as the
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site of AI in Joshua and also in Ephraim of John 11.
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So as director of excavations at Tel Shiloh, he has led the first three seasons of excavations
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there and they've been put on hold due to corona.
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I know he's anxious to get back.
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In the meantime, he has a new book that's hot off the press about the Exodus.
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It's called The Five Views of the Exodus.
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And so we're going to link to that in our show notes for you after you've heard Dr. Stripling.
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I'm sure you'd like to read some of his writings.
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He's published widely in peer reviewed journals and is a popular speaker and teacher around
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the world.
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And his passion is connecting the material culture of the Holy Land with the biblical
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text.
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And so Dr. Stripling, a very warm welcome to you.
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Thank you for joining us today.
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Well thank you Susan for that kind introduction.
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It's great to be with you.
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Yes.
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So I know you've been involved in Christian ministry and church leadership and teaching
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in seminaries.
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And I know that your faith is important to you and your strong belief in the Bible.
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So I want you to first just share with our audience how you bring your belief in the
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Bible to the field of archaeology and how that might be different from others in the
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field and what that difference means for you.
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Well that's a great question.
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I do not bifurcate my belief system from how I practice in the field because we're dealing
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with the land of the Bible.
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And so the Bible is our go to source for that part of the world and take Shiloh for example.
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It's not mentioned in the Mesopotamian literature or the Egyptian literature or anywhere else
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except the Bible.
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And so I presuppositionally take the Bible as a reliable historical document.
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And that of course would be different from what I would say the majority of archaeologists
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would do.
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Even if they use the Bible they're probably not taking it as being historically reliable
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in the same sense that we would take other secular literature.
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I do and I have found a great synchronism between the material culture and the biblical
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text and I'm always eager to talk about that.
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Now we have talked a lot in our first few weeks of our walk through the Bible series
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about some of the archaeological evidence that may support the biblical narrative but
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yet there are so many in the world of archaeology and the scholars that will say, no there's
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no proof that any of that happened.
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And so we're helping them to understand.
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It's not that the archaeology isn't there or certain findings.
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It's how it's interpreted and it's also how it's dated.
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And so as we have progressed in our reading we're now up to Judges and First Samuel and
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we're reading about Shiloh and so it's a little bit more advanced and archaeology is a little
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bit easier I think to date and to understand.
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So that's a great segue to our real subject today which is Shiloh and I'll just explain
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for our audience in English we pronounce it Shiloh.
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In Hebrew it is Shiloh or Shiloh and so we may go back and forth in our pronunciation
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but it is the city of Shiloh and what you've uncovered there about the existence of the
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tabernacle which also has the Ark of the Covenant is what we're really interested in hearing
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about.
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So please first would you remind our listeners about the biblical history of Shiloh what
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took place there according to the Bible?
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Absolutely and first let me echo what you said the chronology is the key because if
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we're looking in the wrong time or the wrong place then we're going to find the wrong stuff.
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And so sometimes you'll hear people say that archaeology contradicts the Bible.
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Well they're two centuries off.
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You're looking in the wrong layer what we would call the wrong stratum and so that is
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really really important.
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But what we are doing at Shiloh is a multi-year excavation on the northern slope and it's
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sort of like draining the water in a bathtub where we're starting at the top where we have
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early Islamic material and then we go through that down through the Byzantine material
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down into the early Roman material which would be time of Jesus New Testament and then into
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the late Hellenistic period what we might call inter-testamental period and then down
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into the Iron Age II the period of the divided kingdom the period of the the prophet Ahaziah
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at Shiloh and then finally down into Iron I what we would call the period of the Tabernacle
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and LB II, Late Bronze II which is when the period of the Tabernacle first started at
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Shiloh then into the Prius for Light stratum.
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So we go down identifying the layers as we go carefully recording the material culture
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that we're uncovering and we're uncovering some really really interesting things.
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Well tell us what have you discovered from that time period when the Tabernacle was there?
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Well we are the third major expedition to Shiloh so the Danish worked for four seasons
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in the 1920s there.
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I'm sort of primitive by our standards today but generally speaking for what they had at
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the time they did a good job the Israelis by our line university did a dig in the 1980s
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for four seasons but still less than 5% of the site was excavated so there was a lot
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of conjecture and we felt a lot of questions that needed to be answered and so we launched
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a new excavation in 2017 we completed three years we were not able to dig last summer
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unfortunately but we have high hopes of being back in the field this summer.
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So what have we found in our first three seasons that would create a verisimilitude a linkage
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between the material culture and the biblical text.
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We have a I believe evidence of a sacrificial system that's operating there when the Bible
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says that the Israelites were there.
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We get a change in material culture so for example we have 4% pig bone in the earlier
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stratum stratum 8 and stratum 7 and then once we get into the Israelite stratum it
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drops to 1%.
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We see the pottery change we begin to find things like ceramic palm granites which is
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a motif of the tabernacle if you remember the high priest had bells and palm granites
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alternating on his the hem of his garment and we have found two of those so far demolished
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altar horns destruction matrix a bone deposit that what we would call a 5 visa with bones
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only from the biblical sacrificial system in it full of late bronze to pottery from the
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initial period of the tabernacle at Shiloh as well and then a series of storage rooms
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that appear appear to encircle the site with dozens and dozens of massive pitoy or storage
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jars the classic Israelite collard rim storage jar and then finally we are unearthing a monumental
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building from the iron one which would be the time of Eli and Samuel and Hanan and so
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forth and it orients to the east west and we don't yet know exactly what it was but
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we're very interested to finish excavating this building.
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Okay so let me kind of dissect what you just said for our audience.
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So the city of Shiloh was there of course before the Israelites took it over and it
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was it an Amorite city is that right?
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And the Amorite period is considered is that new bronze?
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No so the the it would begin in middle bronze and then continue into the into the late bronze
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yes.
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Right.
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So for our readers because we're not archaeologists so we don't always know these terminology
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the bronze age was when weapons and cutlery stuff was made out of bronze and so it's called
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the bronze age and there was the early middle and late bronze and then weaponry they learned
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how to melt iron and combine it with other things to make it strong and so that became
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the predominant method of making weapons so it's called the iron age and you always jump
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in and correct me if I get any of that wrong.
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No you're doing great.
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So the Israelite period for Shiloh began in late bronze and went into iron age is that
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right?
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That's right 1400 would be the arrival of Joshua in the Israelites give or take a year
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and that's important because if you if you're in the wrong century then you know you're
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going to appear to not have evidence that coincides with the Bible and I appreciate
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the plug for the new book 5 views on the Exodus and in chapter 1 folks can read all about
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the reasoning of why we would place Joshua in the Israelites at Shiloh at the end of
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what we would call the late bronze one period.
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Late bronze okay great all right I just wanted to explain that and so the the remains of
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you said a sacrificial system indications that of that let's start with the storage
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the storage room and the storage jars because tell us how they why they are all these storage
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jars what did that mean to you?
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Well first of all there's no other site in Israel that has storage rooms surrounding
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the perimeter.
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Folks who are familiar with Israel can picture maybe a site like Bersheva in the south in
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the Negev that has four room houses encircling the site but what we have here only at Shiloh
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are storage rooms and of course that's a great example of verisimilitude because that's what
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you would expect people like Hannah and Elkana came to Shiloh they paid their tithe as they
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were commanded and they couldn't go to Tabernacle.org and make a secure online donation or write
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a check or anything like that they brought commodity and so what would we expect to find
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at a place where many many people are bringing their agricultural tithe storage rooms and
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inside those storage rooms we have these collard rim jars and lots of them so we're in the
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process of restoring all of these jars and they're talking to us you know just like Jesus
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said the stones would cry out was an archaeologist you know these artifacts Susan when they come
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out of the ground they're mute they have to be interpreted and they're interpreted through
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life experience through training and so they're talking to us and and after three seasons
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I think we've now got a good picture of what was happening in antiquity at biblical Shiloh.
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And tell us a little bit more about the pomegranate that you found.
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Okay the ceramic pomegranate was just about two inches in size it has a calyx at the bottom
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where it's beginning to flower and of the seven fruits that the Israelites were promised
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when they came into the land sacred fruits if you will it was only the pomegranate that
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went into the presence of God on the hem of the high priest's garments later in Solomon's
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temple 200 pomegranates adorned Solomon's temple so I think it had to do with the pomegranate
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representing God's abundance his fecundity the that that idea that exponential growth
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is possible with all these seeds within a pomegranate so it's a motif of the tabernacle
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they have been found in Israel only at Levitical sites either priestly or Levitical sites like
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Yolk-Niamh for example and so what do we begin to find ceramic pomegranates so again sort
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of inductively you've got storage rooms you've got pomegranates and we begin to layer upon
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layer pick piece together what life was like at that time so it was a little like a two
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inch ceramic pomegranate that you believe was on the hem of the priestly garment well
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I can't say that that this hung from Eli's robe for example I can just tell you that
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the Bible says that there were pomegranates depicted either it was a combination bell
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pomegranate or a pomegranate separately those are the two things on the hems of the priest's
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garments and what we are finding are pomegranates I mean ours may have hung from a cult stand
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or something like that so I can't say that with certainty but it's possible I do have
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a replica here if you'd like to see it so this is a replica of the pomegranate this
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is you know a baby pomegranate you can see where it would hang there and then here's
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the calyx on the bottom where it opens up and the typical pomegranate has 613 seeds
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just like the commandments in the Hebrew Bible. Wow, isn't that amazing. I've tried to count
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them a number of times but I've always lost count but that's what the expert says that
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there are 613 seeds. Yes and so these pomegranates had 613 seeds in them and then of course in
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the corners of the garments were tassels which were to be a reminder also of the 613 commandments
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so wow that is really fascinating. You also mentioned the horn a broken horn of an altar
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could you just explain us what is a horn of an altar what is it what was it for what
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does it look like. You know as a beginning Bible reader you start reading all these strange
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things like he grabbed hold of the horns of the altar and you're picturing animal horns
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exactly. They could not use metal tools on the sacred altar so they had to find stones
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that naturally had a curvature toward them like a horn and then those would be used
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as the corners of an altar and so you know in the cities of refuge for example somebody
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could find refuge by grabbing hold of the horns of the altar but normally they were
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used to buying the sacrifice and that sacrifice Susan I think answers you know we're looking
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at Passover right around the corner and that answers I think the most basic of all human
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questions like how do we messed up as we are how do we connect with a perfect and holy
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God and it was through the sacrificial system that they were able to do that I mean Leviticus
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11 clearly says without the shedding of blood there I'm sorry Leviticus 1711 says without
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the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin and so they needed to repair their
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relationships vertically with God and horizontally with each other just like we do and the sacrificial
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system enabled them to do that. And so the altar would be a big stone slab. Yeah multiple
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stones okay that are pieced kind of interlocked and worked together and then the corner pieces
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would be horns that would come up and what we found were three of them in a one was in
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secondary usage it had been reused and then another was just a couple of feet away and
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then the third one was in a destruction matrix sealed under a plastered floor and we were
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able to carbon date it and with the pottery date it to about 1075 BC which is exactly
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the time of the Philistine destruction of Shiloh. Now this is really exciting where
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archaeology doesn't change the biblical text it illuminates the biblical text because the
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Bible doesn't come right out in first Samuel and tell you that the Philistines destroyed
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Shiloh but it implies it and then Psalm 78 strongly implies a destruction of Shiloh but
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it doesn't explicitly state it. So what we're able to do in archaeology is say okay it implies
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it and now we have evidence of that destruction and of a demolished altar in that matrix.
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Okay very interesting well you also mentioned something that I find so exciting and that's
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bones who would think that bones are exciting right but you said that in the pre-Israelite
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part of the findings you found pig bones but in the Israelite period your archaeology didn't
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have any which of course just corroborates that it was an Israelite city a place of worship
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where they kept it pure and they didn't have pigs there. Right now we have about less than
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one percent pig bones there's a tiny amount but that could be contamination from the other
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stratum and you know or a wild hog it's hard hard to know but there is a clear difference.
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Now in that in our bone deposit from the Late Bronze II period our fa visa in our area D
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that appears to be where they're dumping the bones after the sacrifice right over the the
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city wall and it accumulates over a couple of centuries so it's a lot of bone there with
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pottery in our mix as if they're libations drink offerings and then the vessel itself
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is being broken or or offered. Now here's where the Bible reader has an advantage what
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we found because we test every bone you know we execute thousands a year and then we have
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a zoo archaeologist at Tel Aviv University they'll do a complete analysis of these bones
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for us each year we found that there's a disproportionate percentage of those bones from the right
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side of the animal to the left side of the animal so something like 60 to 65 percent
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are from the right side and 30 35 percent from the left side now statistically that's
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impossible and so you know what does one do when one is not a Bible reader you just note
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it but you have no interpretation as a Bible reader your mind immediately goes to Leviticus
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chapter 7 unless you slept through Leviticus that you go to Leviticus 7 and you read that
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the right side of the animal is the priest's portion. Ah now you begin to connect the dots
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of what was happening in ancient Shiloh. Wow and so you've discovered that over 60 percent
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of the bones were from the right side of the animal. In the bone deposit yes. So all these
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indications it's not like you have actually found anything from the tabernacle itself
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but a lot of indications that this is where it was this is where there was a sacrificial
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system this is where there was worship there were priests with hymns and garments and and
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so how and you've only excavated a very very small part of the city is that right. Right
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we've been there three seasons and of course our technology is far more advanced than it
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was in the previous excavations and we're blessed to have a large excavation team any
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of your listeners would be very welcome to join us they can just go to digshiloh.org to
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get the details but we yeah we've done in our three seasons maybe three percent of the
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site that we've excavated so far so we still have a lot of answers that are underground.
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Who knows what is there and I read that your excavation I think for two years in a row
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was the largest excavation taking place in Israel at the time and I know it's it's it
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would take a long time to and a lot of money to excavate the whole site but I know you're
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you're you can't wait to get back there. Well we take Jeremiah 712 very seriously Jeremiah
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712 says go now to Shiloh. And Dr. Stifling you alluded to the new technology tell us
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some of the new things that you've got that are helping and aiding archaeology today.
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Well super exciting we have an infield lab that we have infrared and ultraviolet lighting
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in the fields we built a little laboratory so we can examine every shard of pottery and
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every object before we discard it in other words we have to make a decision what we're
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going to say for further scientific study and what we're not and so before as part of
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that decision making process we examine it under this lighting to make sure we're not
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missing something that the naked eye can't can't see. We fly drones you know morning
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afternoon and evening so we have all these thousands of shots that we're able to compress
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which is kind of funny because only six or seven years ago when we first flew a drone
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everyone stopped working and got their cameras out to take a picture of this drone and now
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it's like second nature. The drones can take spot on photos we hover it right over each
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archaeological square and that picture is better than we can draw it so I mean we don't
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even have our supervisors drawing the squares anymore because we take a perfect photo every
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day and then we update that in the iPad so my supervisors are all entering data in their
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iPads and that's all then coming to my computer so that I'm getting data making real time
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decisions or data driven decisions in the field and that's very different from what
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we had in the past where archaeologists had a hunch you know about something I do get
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hunches but I try to back them up with data driven decisions and probably the most important
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technology is our wet sifting. We have invested in a massive washing station or a wet sifting
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station and we are the first excavation to wholesale wash and wet sift everything that
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we dig so after it's been dug then after it's been dry sifted to check to make sure that
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things weren't missed then we have another protocol where we tag it properly take it
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down to our wash station and wash it and Susan what we're finding is revolutionary. For every
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one scarab that we used to find we're now finding four and a half and we verified this we went
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back to old dump piles from the 1980s and we found more in their dump piles than they
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found in their excavation so sadly excavations in the past have been throwing away the majority
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of the evidence and not intentionally of course but we're now trying to share this technology
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with everyone and let them know we can't keep throwing away the evidence and if somebody
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tells you well we excavated such and such a place and we didn't find evidence that corroborated
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the Bible well I guess not when we're throwing away the evidence in our in our dump piles
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so this is an exciting new season that we're in. Well it is and you know I know that when
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I was studying about Shiloh I was really surprised to see how long the tavernacle was there at
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Shiloh I mean this was a a central place of worship for how many years? Oh that's a good
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question there's a little confusion about that the Bible gives us a little over three centuries
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which is a long time so while Jerusalem is still a pagan city Shiloh is the center of
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Israelite life and worship. The Seder Olam tells us and that's a second century AD document tells
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us that the tavernacle was at Shiloh for 369 years and that's the date that you'll often hear used
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that doesn't really synchronize with the internal biblical data so I just tend to say that it was
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there for over three centuries but it would be closer to 300 than 369. Well that's still a long time.
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Yeah well it's an American that's yeah that's longer than our history. Exactly and when we
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say the tavernacle was there was the Ark of the Covenant there that whole time in the tavernacle?
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Yes and that's what's so exciting is that the presence of God was there. God said in Jeremiah
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712 that's where I caused my name to dwell. I mean that's where God lived remember God's speaking
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to Samuel from the Holy of Holies and it's just incredible yeah that this is where the Ark of
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the Covenant rested and where God's presence dwelt and you know the research that we're doing on that
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is just really really phenomenal. I filmed a new series with History Channel two or three months ago
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called Secrets of the Lost Ark I think was the title it'll come out in September or October this
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fall and you know we'll get into a great depth on the Ark of the Covenant at Shiloh but suffice
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it to say that when when I'm working there I don't really lose the sense of awe you know the
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long hours and lots of lots of work and responsibility but to me there's really a sense of awe that
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we're dealing with holy important things and we're dealing with them scientifically and
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academically and I happen to be of the belief that you could do both simultaneously. Well I
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can't imagine what it's like for you to to actually stand there or sit there on the dust
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at Shiloh and to close your eyes and picture all of that history all that biblical history all the
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the worship the priest that everything and to think that you are sitting right there and that
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you are in charge of uncovering the evidence and what's left over. It's awesome. It's awesome.
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Just when when you're reminding me right now I'm getting goosebumps I mean it is an awesome
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privilege and responsibility and I often think about Psalm 102-14
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I mean, O Zion, blessed are those who love your dust and cherish your stones and so the dust well
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may bother a lot of people to me I like it in my eyes and my nose and my ears and you know
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ingesting it and that's how you really get to know Eretz Israel the land of the Bible
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walking it's great and traveling it's great but come dig with us and let it become one with you
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and you'll really have a new perspective then. Well Dr. Strictly I want to thank you first
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of all for your work because you are helping to uncover the proof of our biblical text and that
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means that this book is accurate we can base our faith on it we can base our lives on it and the
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God that is behind it and so I want to thank you for your work and I want to thank you for giving
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of your time today to speak to us we're going to link in the show notes just right down below
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to Dr. Stripling's book and also he mentioned how you or maybe someone in your family could sign up
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to go on the Archaeological Dig at digshiloh.org and we can't wait to see the History Channel
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program on Secrets of the Lost Ark that sounds intriguing but thank you for your time today and
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we look forward to having you back again where we can discuss some of the other exciting finds that
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are taking place today in the land of the Bible so thank you so much Dr. Stripling. Thank you Susan
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and I appreciate the good work that your organization is doing Shalom. Shalom Shalom and thank you
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everybody for joining us today take advantage of the resources and the show notes below and
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we'll see you back here in just a few days for our next walk through the Bible episode so see you
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then and until then God bless. We hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of Zion with Susan
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Michael be sure to subscribe to Out of Zion now on Apple Podcasts, cpnshows.com, YouTube or wherever
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you like to listen and learn. Out of Zion with Susan Michael is a production of ICEJ USA All Rights
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Reserved.
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