From Critic to Believer: Greg Locke Stands with Benny Hinn

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Hello everyone i'm steven strangen welcome to the strangenport podcast recently i did two podcast with benny hinn he reached out to me he felt he needed a neutral platform to kind of explain some of the attacks.

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He's been getting online i was glad to interview him i've known him over the years i've written about him many times in chris my magazine but i've also.

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Stay kind of arms length from him my job is not to defend him nor is it to pile on.

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If you didn't see those two interviews you want to see them online and by the way if you don't subscribe to the strangenport you need to do that so that you get my podcast every Tuesday and thursday when it comes out at four p.m.

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Today i'm interviewing greg lock you may know him because of his deliverance ministry in nashville tennessee.

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And i've gotten to know him and actually he reached out to me also about a year ago.

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Instead that he had been very critical of any in fact he wrote a self published book called blinded by bennie.

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And he felt convicted that he needed to apologize to bennie and he asked me if i couldn't make that happen.

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And i was able to do it and as we talk about in our podcast today it was kind of off the record but something very special happened and i felt with.

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Everything going around the internet about bennie it would be interesting to hear from a man who had a very negative attitude about bennie and changed his mind and what happened.

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Why did he feel the way he did why did he change and what is the holy spirit saying that we can learn from what's going on you don't want to miss this episode of the strangenport stay tuned.

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A pastor lock there's been a lot on social media about bennie him lately and you used to be very critical of him in fact.

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If i remember correctly you wrote a book attacking him and i happen to know that you've changed your opinion which we're going to talk about today.

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So tell me what it was that you had against bennie him and what's happened since then.

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I think then twenty two years ago and now most of the problem is people just hear things or read headlines they'll hear a clip course the internet wasn't nearly as big twenty two years ago as it is now and so i would just hear certain things.

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And i never reached out to him i never tried to have a matthew eighteen meeting with him not that he even needed to take one biblically but i just decided to come out hot and just start writing about things i had heard.

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And maybe some of those things during that particular tenure of his ministry maybe they were true maybe they weren't but when you and i got to know each other and charisma you know sign this on for our books and things.

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I just began to see that a bridge needed to be built the book needed to be burnt and a bridge needed to be built and that's why i reached out to you and said hey do you think pastor benny would take a meeting with me he didn't know me from atoms house cat he didn't have to take the meeting.

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And when we walked into that golf club that day and we sat down and we had that meal and we prayed together.

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I was struck immediately by his humility number one to have the meeting but to listen to my heart.

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And then for him to tell me you know what i really number one i forgive you but there's there's great sincerity and anointing in what you're saying and then we just talk about the body of Christ how it needs to come together and so.

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There are times that i think we have to be very bold and courageous and biblical and we have to call out nonsense when it needs to be called out.

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But from watching the videos that you've already done with pastor benny and that people are still invigorating and talking about and tweeting about and facebook about.

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He was very sincere he was very humble i think he could have come out and i probably would have swinging a little bit more but he didn't.

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I kind of took it on the chin and he said look i made some mistakes i said some things that i should not have said i repent and i'm sorry.

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You know i was reading the other day even peter looked at simon the sorcerer this guy was a full blown witch doctor and he said to simon the sorcerer repent of this therefore thy wickedness.

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If god will perhaps forgive the naughtiness of your heart he said to a false prophet i'm giving you a chance to repent.

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So regardless of how deep the falsity was if you will in pastor benny's ministry the man's repented and he said look i said some things i should not have said.

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You know there are times that you me anybody that teaches communicates is going to eventually be guilty of false teaching that does not make them a false teacher.

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I taught against tongues i taught against the baptism of the holy spirit i taught against men and women of god i taught against women preachers right i taught against deliverance.

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We got a movie about it and a book about it i taught against all of that not because i was a false teacher but because i had some false teaching that because of the denominational lens through which i saw the bible i was corrupted and god had to correct me and god will correct us and i've seen god correct pastor benny and he's been willing to get up on camera when he didn't have to he could have just done his own thing right he's been he and he's got a large following it doesn't really matter what people say at the end of the day.

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But i see a humility in him that perhaps his detractors either they don't see it or they just don't want to see it because a lot of the people that are going to be extraordinarily you know critical of him are going to be extraordinarily critical of me for even trying to look like.

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I'm defending him but here's here's what we're doing we're defending truth.

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We're defending humility so we can do this entire interview beautifully and biblically without having to do two things.

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I don't have to be a cheerleader for benny hyen nor do i have to inviscidate his critics all we have to do is speak the facts and the facts are he admitted there's some things that he did and said that he should not have done and said and he's repented we either forgive or we don't.

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Matthew 18 says when somebody comes to you seven times a day and offend you god says forgive him forgive him forgive him forgive him.

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So i think this entire issue is not really an issue about false doctrine false prophets and prosperity gospel i think it's an issue either about forgiveness and growth and maturity.

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And a lot of the people that right now are his detractors like me are just going by what he said that's what i did twenty two twenty years ago and when i got to know him i'm like wow there's something different here it's like CNN and me we have this weird relationship.

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CNN has been to our church eight times okay CNN hates Greg lock and i get it but you know what happens when they send camera crews here they have a hard time not liking me because they're not watching a forty five second clip that has no context they're sitting down and actually getting to know me.

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So i know that's a long way around the barn but i want people to understand the reason we're doing this interview is not just so i can defend pastor bennie but i can defend my position that twenty two years ago i wouldn't have spit on him if he caught fire in our church parking lot and today we're good friends.

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I mean israel you know i'm taking picture of the school that he went to and he's like oh wow man of god i wish i could be there you know i miss my homeland and all of that.

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And what i have found in bennie hyen is he is a kind man that wants to end better than he began and it's not how you start it's how you finish i got a son at jesus image that loves the sunday nights when bennie hyen gets to the pulpit to preach and we're not ignorant of the bible that global vision my son grew up around

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expository word by word verse by verse preaching and was also a cessation is for a long time and now when bennie hyen comes to you know orlando and he comes to jesus image my son's like hey dad pastor bennie's preaching tonight and he preached on the authority of the word of god.

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So these people are going to keep doing youtube videos they're going to keep writing articles they're going to keep saying what they want to say because it gets them clicks and likes.

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And in the body of christ one of the most shameful things and i'm going to volley back to you because you're the host i'm just preaching one of the most shameful things in the body of christ is that influencers are more concerned about followers than actually following what the truth of the word of god is.

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And the truth of the word of god is there are going to be times that we disagree and disagreement does not make us enemies it makes us human.

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Everybody wants to talk about paul and silas paul and silas act sixteen do you know why silas went with paul because they were going to take john mark and the bible says that paul said no i'm not taking that little brat he didn't do us very well and here's what the king james bible says.

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The dissension between them was so sharp that they had a parting of ways and sometimes the dissension in the body of christ gets sharp we're not going to agree on everything but when paul was older and wiser and more mature and rotten in a prison sale.

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Remember who he asked for he asked for mark he said send mark to visit me before they behead me because he's profitable for the ministry so here's what these detractors need to understand.

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The more we grow closer to christ the less we hate people that we don't understand so whether you like benny hen or not.

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Okay wisdom will be justified of her children let's give it a few years and when we go to jail let me tell you something the last thing you're going to be worried about is doing videos against somebody that could help you and stand with you.

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There will come a day that all of these people doing these videos that hate on me him you or whoever else they are going to need us when the whole thing goes down it's going to be like a paul and mark we're going to be needful for each other so we better stop devouring each other sorry i went so long.

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Well that's well said and you know i was there in this famous meeting we kind of went as it was off the record i've had occasion to do this several times over my lifetime and whenever i can be a bridge builder i want to be of course it isn't.

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Confidential now sure and benny did a podcast and and and we're able to talk about this because i think it's so interesting that you had one opinion of benny.

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And then you changed your mind and i sort of saw that unfold but did the Holy Spirit say anything to you as you were listening to benny and kind of getting to know his heart and so forth or or is it pretty much as you just described.

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Well it is as i just described i mean it was it was a heartfelt sentiment for me but the Holy Spirit definitely did a great download and i mean because you were there you know i wept at the table before him when i said look i want you to forgive me for something you didn't even know i did right.

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I was like a blip on his radar he had never heard of mark yeah he hadn't heard of you or the book.

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Yeah i mean you're only one in a long list of critics over the years absolutely absolutely and if i were to now at the level where the Lord's brought us you know with our platform and our church and the size of our ministry if i were to stop for all the detractors absolutely not i gotta be like me amaya i'm not coming off the wall to fuss with you people i'm just not i got some building and some battling to do.

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And i think that's where he's at but i do understand why he said you know what let me lay some of this to bed let me lay some of this to rest and the man shared his heart.

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And if they don't want to take that then that's on them but we're either going to offer grace and offer forgiveness over just going to keep on and keep on and keep fighting and keep devouring.

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And it's just going to get worse and worse and so things are thinning out in the body of Christ and we don't have time to be fighting we have got to come together denominational tags all of that stuff's got to go the way i call it the way of the dodo right it's gotta go to the museum.

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Because when everything falls apart we're going to have to stand and fight together but we're not going to be able to because we've been standing apart fighting each other far too long.

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And you know i'm at a place now where i don't have time to fight you or anybody else i'm fighting demons right i'm fighting principalities we're fighting the wickedness of this buck wild culture.

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We're fighting all of these things that are happening and yet you have people that for clicks and shares and blue check marks they want to fight brothers and sisters in Christ and i'm done with it now look there are times.

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That our people know and people that watch me know i get up and i get i'll get very enraged about something and when somebody refuses to repent if they're going to go down the road of witchcraft if they're going to steal money if they're going to be a fornicator if

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they're going to just be loose with their morals i'm going to call him out on it right but here's a man that said he here are the areas where i botched it right these are the areas God's convicted me about i've changed direction i've repented i felt pressure i heard

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I felt pressure. I heard him even say that. He said, I felt pressure.

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And so I just said things. Who hasn't felt pressure when the camera's on to say things?

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You know how many times I have stood up before our congregation and said, you know what?

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I could have crafted that a little differently. And so here's the here's the problem with the body of Christ.

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It's not our position. It's our disposition, right?

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It's not the fact that we're wrong about what we're saying. We're right, but we have such a bad attitude

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Nobody wants to listen to us. So some of these guys are right. They're theologically right.

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I don't deny the fact that they want to be theologically savvy. They want to understand the gospel

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But you can be a jerk for Jesus and God's not going to bless that

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You know, you mentioned

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teaching through the Bible verse by verse and I know that you do that

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But I've heard Benny minister many times. I've seen things on YouTube where he really dives into the word

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and has some very deep

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Insights he has a in my my observation of him over the years and I've known him really since he got started

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he has a lot of insight and

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But he's also a lightning rod, you know, a lot of the things he's criticized for a

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Lot of other ministries that aren't as well known could be criticized for that too, but somehow he's a lightning rod

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So he seems to draw this

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It's easier to attack one person like Benny than it is to attract attack everyone and some of the attacks is

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Is what somebody who doesn't believe like you or I do even secular people who don't believe in God period

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Who just thinks this is all a lot of nonsense?

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some of the criticisms could be

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leveled at that that level but I

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Agree with you that Benny does seem sincere

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he has repented and

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But there's also some people that are saying it's not good enough. How how do we judge if somebody's really repented or not?

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Well, I mean think about that in terms of the Lord

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I mean what if you know I repented from my past and the Lord said ah, you didn't use the right words

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I don't I don't I don't just think you were sincere

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No, the Bible says he that cometh unto Jesus he will in no wise cast him out

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And so if if God can forgive someone why in the world can't the body of Christ?

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We want to keep trudging up people's past

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Drudging up their history everybody's got a past

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Everybody's got a history the only difference is their ministry hasn't been big enough for them to be

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Inviscerated by the by the mega culture of the media yet, right?

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So when you're small you can say stupid things and people will ignore you

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But when you're big and you say stupid things they will attack you right they will absolutely attack you and so they've made it their job

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to become online

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Profits to basically just

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Inviscerate people and just bring people down and break people down and I do not see that that is not one of the five fold ministries

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It's just not okay armchair theologian on Facebook is not one of the five fold it's it's just not there

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So again, is there a time that we have to call out nonsense and falsehood?

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Absolutely, but there is also a way in which we are to do it and when someone is brought to repentance

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When they publicly repent because you see private private sin deserves private confession

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Public sin deserves public confession when a man publicly repents if the church still doesn't forgive him

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They're not acting like the church even Paul said that to the Corinthians. What's wrong with you people?

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You're suing each other you hate each other you're fighting each other

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He said let me tell you what you don't want you don't want me to put this pin down and show up in person

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Because when I get there Paul said you are not gonna like what I have to say

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He was gonna come turn over some tables because these Christians were biting and devouring each other

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He said you got to stop I'm of Paul I'm of you know, I'm of Cephas. I'm of Apollos

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He said quit that and the body of Christ the evangelical world the charismatic world were the same way

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I'm I'm of Locke. I'm of signarelli. I'm of Isaiah salivar. I'm of Benny Hinn. I'm of Rod Parsley

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Stop we are children of the Most High God anointed and appointed by God

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And we are called on the same battlefield to fight the same enemy

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But we're so busy turnaround shooting the people behind us and beside us

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We can't enjoy the fact that we are in a last-days battle and these guys on YouTube

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They're fighting the wrong battles and look I've been there. I've been there

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I've I've had to inviscidate myself

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We took down every video on Facebook that I had ever made from 2020 backwards

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And then people need to understand something that that's not just small potatoes that there were over a billion

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With a B not M with a B 1.2 billion views

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We completely erased from the internet on Facebook because I said, you know what I said some things

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I shouldn't have said in ways that I shouldn't have said them and

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I did away with it and I got up for our church and I said, you know what?

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Let's let's make sure our position and our disposition is correct

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Let's let's move forward in grace. So I don't know what these guys are gonna do

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But they can say what they want to if my picture and Benny Hens picture is on the same flyer

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They may freak out but I'm not going to because he's my friend and I'm gonna stand with my friends

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I'm a loyalist, right?

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I'm a guy that when Greg locks your friend

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He's gonna be your friend to the end unless you decide to burn the absolute relationship to the ground, right?

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And he's my friend and I'm on this podcast right now because I'm your friend. I'm charisma friend. I'm pastor Benny's friend

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I love him. I appreciate the fact that he forgave me. Why would I not return the favor?

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What why would I believe all this nonsense when I can pick up the phone and say hey pastor Benny?

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Let's let's chat this looks a little weird

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This looks could you explain it and you know what he'd do he'd explain it he'd explain it

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These guys don't want any accountability, but they want everybody else to have it

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Well, I appreciate your perspective and the reason I wanted to I reached out to you Benny Hinn actually reached out to me

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He felt he needed a sort of a neutral platform to speak to some of these issues

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But I reached out to you because over the years we've tried to help

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Ordinary Christians put things into perspective because when you see things in the news or on social media

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Or you hear things through the grapevine a lot of times you don't know what to believe or not believe or

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Sometimes some of it's true and some of it's not true

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So I think it's important for people to understand what I want to give you the last word

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To explain what you think the average Christian who's watching this who's maybe

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Follows your ministry. Maybe they follow Benny Hinn's ministry

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How can they learn something from all of this stuff that's going on online?

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Well, I think the biggest thing is number one people are gonna have to get their nose out of the newspaper and Twitter and put it in the

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Word of the Lord right now tell people get off Facebook and put your face in the book if you'd read the Bible

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You'd be more merciful you'd be more kind you'd be more forgiving

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There's a reason it's called the fruit of the spirit not the fruit of the Christian because it's not something natural

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We produce without the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but here's the difference. Okay, here's the real difference

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Everybody has stuff in their life that they don't want anybody to find out about somebody else just hadn't written a story about it yet, right?

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Somebody just hadn't found out yet and here and I'm not saying this about Pastor Mike that did this particular video that went viral

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I don't know him. I appreciate him. He's done some stuff, you know that I followed and so I don't

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Inviscerate all these guys. I understand I was there. I had to grow when I became a man

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I put away childish things and I think some of these arguments are childish

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but at the end of the day, I think people need to understand that

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the most critical people in the Bible of the ministry of Jesus or Paul or Peter

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when somebody was real and and sincere and living in a repentive state the most critical

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people of them

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Were the religious people that had hidden sin in their life that they themselves would not repent of

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So I have a hard time when somebody just keeps on keeps on keep they just drill people drill people

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They're always critical. They're always judgmental. I say and this is my pastoral prophetic opinion

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That there's something in their life that they're gonna have to confess

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You see other people's repentance bothers them because they don't live in repentance themselves and

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When somebody acts humble it kind of bristles them up if that makes sense

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so I'm not saying across the board broad-stroking that all these men are living in pornography and perversity, but

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Nine times out of ten you show me the people in the Bible that hated Jesus and hated truth and hated the flow of the spirit

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And I'll show you the people that Jesus said you draw near to me with your mouth

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But your heart. Oh, that's another issue. It's far from me

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So anybody watching this I want to know whether whether Steven's saying it whether Greg saying it Pastor Benny

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It doesn't make any difference at the end of the day

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What does the word of God say and the word of God says that we ought to love people that we ought to forgive people

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They want to be merciful to people if he goes out tomorrow and he flies off the rails. That's not on Greg lock

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That's not on you. That's on him every bucket sits on its own bottom

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But until he does I'm gonna be his friend and I'm gonna stand with him. I don't care what the detractors say

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Appreciate Greg lock being on my podcast. I believe that he's very articulate. I hope you learned something

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My heart's cry is that the body of Christ and learn something, you know

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Ministers whoever they are whether it's me whether it's Greg lock whether it's Benny Hinn need to understand

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That we have to be accountable

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We have to be accountable first of all to God

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To our brothers and sisters in the body of Christ, but also to some extent

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We're accountable to the public to say what we mean and mean what we say and I admire Benny Hinn for being man enough to

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Say that he missed it somehow

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He as he said in the podcast and as Greg and I talked about he wants to finish strong and each of us

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Needs to want to finish strong. We need to

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Stand before God and hear him say well done. They're good and faithful servant

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Thank you for tuning in if you haven't subscribed

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Subscribe with all the views that have been that have come in on the last couple of podcasts

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My subscriptions are really growing and I appreciate you write comments

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I enjoy reading the comments and I want to know what you have to say good bad or indifferent

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Thank you for watching the strength report tuning it again next time. God bless you