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March 1, 2024
Standing for Life leads to Persecution in America with Paul Vaughn
Uncover the shocking story of Paul Vaughn's FBI arrest and the injustice it reveals in America's justice system. This religious news insight will leave you questioning the truth behind the FBI's actions. Don't miss this eye-opening interview.
Transcript
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Hello everyone, I'm Stephen Strang and welcome to this edition of the Strang Report.
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Today we're going to talk about a very important issue and that is the pro-life stance and
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the difficulty that some people are having and where the government is actually being
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weaponized against those who are standing for life.
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And it's very, very serious at many different levels.
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And I happen to see my guest today, Paul Vaughn, on the Mike Huckabee show on TBN a couple
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of weeks ago and then last week at National Religious Broadcasters, he was with a group
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of people and we were talking and when I realized who he was, I invited him to be on my podcast
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because I believe this is something that everyone in the body of Christ, really every
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American needs to know and be aware of because in addition to the pro-life issue, there's
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the issue of our freedoms of if the government can come after people like you're going to
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hear now.
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So you don't want to miss this.
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In fact, share this with other people.
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By the way, if you don't subscribe to the Strang Report, now is a good time to do it.
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Hit the little bell so you're notified when we're on live every Tuesday and Thursday at
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4 p.m. Eastern time.
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So let me start by introducing Paul Vaughn.
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He's the president of Personhood, Tennessee, and with him is his attorney who's a senior
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counsel for the Thomas Moore Society, which is a very respected law firm who is well known
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for promoting the pro-life stance.
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Thank you to you both for being on my podcast today.
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So how can you tell the story?
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I know the story, but not as well as you.
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So why don't you tell us what happened that caused you to be arrested for merely protesting
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peacefully in front of an abortion clinic?
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Sure, Stephen.
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And thanks for having us on.
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It's great to talk with you again.
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You know, the story covers a lot of ground.
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There's a lot of time in between the main elements of the story.
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And in March of 21, we were with a group of Christians at an abortion mill in Mount
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Julia, Tennessee.
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And we had a couple different groups there.
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We had people out on the sidewalk, you know, just singing and praying and stuff.
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It was a multi-tenant building.
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So the abortion clinic was actually inside a building, a medical office building where
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there were other businesses in there as well.
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So the dentist and chiropractors and other things like that.
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And so some of us went into the building.
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Some wanted to do what was common in the 90s, a rescue operation where they would sit near
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the door and try to, you know, give the sidewalk counselor's time to talk to women seeking
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abortion.
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And that's what personhood, part of our ministry's personhood is we did sidewalk counseling.
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And so we had sidewalk counseling teams in the hallway there and out in the parking lot.
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And we, you know, would engage with the moms coming into the building and coming down the
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hallway to the abortion clinic.
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So that's what we were doing that day.
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I ended up talking with the police officers and when they arrived on scene and helped,
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you know, just facilitate a peaceful resolution to the process.
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There were some people arrested for blocking doors that day for refusing to leave when
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the police told them to.
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I was not one of those.
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My sidewalk team was not one of those.
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We literally all we did that day was read the Bible, sing hymns and pray.
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And in my case, I talked to the police officers during the event inside and I talked to the
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media, you know, once the event was over outside.
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And that's the extent of my actions that day.
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All peacefully, you know, executed great report with the police officers that day and left
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with no arrest, no warnings, no nothing.
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Only to have the FBI show up a year and a half later in October of 22, banging on my
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door in the morning, you know, for armed, armed FBI agents with long guns and tactical
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gear telling me they were looking for me and arresting me in front of my wife and children
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and then taking me away without letting anyone know where I was.
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So for for six hours, I was basically kidnapped, where my family didn't know where I was.
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My sheriff didn't know where I was.
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The governor and state representatives of Tennessee didn't know where I was.
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And that was in the basement at the federal court building in downtown Nashville.
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And so what was the reason?
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Was it just to intimidate you?
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You know, you're a respected businessman in your community, father of 11 children.
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You have no criminal history.
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You were not a flight risk, as they say.
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So why didn't they just say, would you come down here?
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We have a few questions for you.
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Sure.
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You would think that'd be reasonable, right?
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That's a natural thing to do.
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I've been in the in the on the same form for 15 years.
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We own a business, as you said, for 11 and 12 and 12 years now.
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I hear serving our community and I would have gladly answered a call and come down to talk
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to them.
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But you know, the reality is, are all these processes are made up people and people that
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have individual character and different motives and things that drive them.
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And the actual reality is the lead FBI agent, Mark Schaefer, that led this case was the
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one that decided locally here in Tennessee, where there's only one where we had hardcore
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raids like at my house.
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All the other defendants in other states had very good congenial, you know, please come
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down and talk to us, kind of summons and warrants.
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But here in Tennessee, they kicked on the doors and drug us out and made a big harassing,
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you know, big, big statement in the media, as it were.
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And and the reality is, for whatever reason, this Mark Schaefer 30 days after this event
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got promoted to the office of congressional affairs in Washington, DC.
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So he moved up in the world and and we moved down to the basement of the federal building.
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And then tell us about this law.
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I remember from hearing you talk about it, that is called face, which I'm not sure what
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it stands for, and it was passed in the 90s to give people access, I guess, to abortion
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clinics.
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But also, there are other things that gave people access to like churches.
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You know, there are a few radicals who sometimes were blocked churches and do harassing things
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like that.
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It's not real real common, but it has happened.
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And so supposedly this law was supposed fairly even handed.
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I had barely heard about it and not much has happened in the 30 years or so since it was
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passed.
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So why don't you bring us up to date and explain what face means?
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Yeah, I can give you a little bit of history on it.
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And then Steve has some some brand new data out that we were talking about the other day
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about how you'd be surprised how many churches and pro-life pregnancy centers are being vandalized
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and and abused and not picking up face charges as is available under the face act.
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But if you remember in the early pro-life movement back in the 80s and 90s, there were
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a lot of people.
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And as a matter of fact, there were 77,000 Christians arrested out at abortion clinics
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in the 80s and 90s.
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And for a nonviolent civil disobedience, they were simply sitting down at the doors of the
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abortion clinics doing an old fashioned sit in identifying with the babies and saying,
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if babies are going to die, we believe they're human.
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We believe their life is valuable.
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And we believe it to such an extent.
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We're willing to lay down our freedoms because of our beliefs.
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And so 77,000 some odd Christians were arrested and they were being very effective and abortion
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clinics were being closed down.
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And so the federal government had to shuffle around and figure out how do we stop these
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Christians?
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We want this, you know, baby killing to go on.
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We want to be able to have abortion on demand.
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And so the face bill was the product of that that scenario there.
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And to be fair, at the same time, it really, I think it's probably more because of the
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face act than the face act leading.
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There was some violence.
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There were some radical individuals that were not part of the mainstream pro-life movement.
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And you know, there were abortionists later on that were killed and there was violence
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and vandalism done at abortion clinics by again, a few radical rogue individuals, but
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not by mainstream Christians.
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But I think, you know, part of that is when you shut down the ability for the mainstream
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to respond in a peaceful manner, then what you inevitably do is radicalize those kind
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of on the extreme that have strong opinions or have been hurt by abortion.
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And now they feel like they have no voice.
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So they end up resorting to violence is, I think, the net effect.
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But like I said, Steve has some even breaking even in the last week, some statistics.
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So tell us about your esteem, your counsel.
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That sounds very impressive.
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You're just great here.
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You know, the Thomas More Society, as I said earlier, has a great reputation.
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Is it owned by the Catholic Church?
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I think of it as being Roman Catholic and the Catholics, of course, were the first ones
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to really stand up with the abortion issue when it became, well, I guess there was abortion
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before Roe v. Wade wasn't there.
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It just wasn't legal.
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And but abortion is certainly something in the last century.
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And so I'm assuming that you I should have probably asked you this off camera, but I
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think of the Thomas More Society as operating pro bono for these defendants.
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Exactly right.
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We're a public interest law firm.
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So we render our services, as you say, pro bono.
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And we concentrate a great deal in the pro life arena.
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So we are kind of the first line of defense when sidewalk counselors, as Paul alluded
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to, and folks involved in pro life efforts find themselves on the wrong end of the law.
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Unlike several public interest firms, we also work in the criminal arena, hence our defense
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of Paul.
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And by the way, Stephen, you mentioned that this is maybe an isolated case off camera.
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We were talking about it.
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In fact, there's a series of these criminal face cases brought by the weaponized Department
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of Justice in the wake of the Supreme Court's actions in overturning Roe against Wade in
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June of 2022.
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These kind of throw the book out of actions were unheard of previously.
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But as soon as the Supreme Court stood up and there was an actual action pushing back
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against the abortion lobby, suddenly it's Katie bar the door with regard to the Department
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of Justice and the FBI coming after pro lifers that had engaged, as Paul said, in nothing
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more than peaceful sit-ins.
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So you mentioned the brief history of face in the, what, 30 years or so leading up to
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the Dobs decision in 2022.
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Most of the litigation under face was brought in a civil context.
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The few criminal ones involved the more extreme cases where, for instance, an individual would
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weld himself to a car in front of an abortion clinic entrance, that sort of thing, right?
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But all of a sudden then come the Dobs decision and they're reaching back.
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In Paul's case, the incident occurred, as he said, in March of 2021.
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It wasn't until October 2022 after the Dobs decision that they swooped down and arrest
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him with guns drawn.
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So there's such a clearly political nature to these prosecutions.
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I think persecutions is a fair descriptor of the way they've conducted themselves.
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But as you alluded to also, Stephen, the face act covers not only abortion clinics and freedom
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of access to the clinic's offering so-called reproductive health services, but also access
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to churches and pro-life pregnancy resource centers.
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And it also protects, by the way, the facility itself.
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So if you bomb an abortion clinic instead of just blocking entrance, then you can be
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prosecuted in an interface.
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By the same token, if you fire bomb a church or a pregnancy resource center, you can be
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prosecuted.
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And this has happened.
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And there's times.
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I only know what I see on the news, but I've seen pictures of graffiti on the wall, bombing.
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Sometimes windows are blown out.
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I don't think anyone was killed.
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And if I remember correctly, there were almost no charges brought as if they couldn't find
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out who did it.
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And it happened.
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In the case, since the announcement of the Dobs decision, there have been over 100 pro-life
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pregnancy resource centers that have been attacked and over 300 churches.
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The Family Research Council just released last week a report of violence against churches
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and acts of hostility generally detailing in the calendar year 2023 alone, 315 instances
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of attacks on churches, virtually zero arrests for face violations in those things.
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And if there's any action taken at all, it's by the local authorities, not the feds.
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They seem to have no interest in protecting the churches that theoretically are equal
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to the abortion clinics.
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So why did they target Paul Vaughn?
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Because by his own description just now, this happened a year and a half before he wasn't
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arrested.
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If I remember right, you told Mike Huckabee that you had a nice conversation with the
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police, nothing unusual, when they arrested you, I guess at first, you didn't even connect
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the dots and figure out what they were coming.
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So why did they target you?
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That's a great question.
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I'm still waiting to find the answer.
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I really think it's simply, Stephen, God moves in ways we don't understand.
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I look at it and there's no logical reason for me to be involved in this.
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I didn't break any rules, I didn't break the law.
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I was very careful, I've told the story.
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We have a three-year-old, as well as three-year-old this coming month that was due at the time.
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And so I was very cautious and very mindful of the coming birth that was due within a
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week of that event.
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And so there's just no logical reason that I should be involved in this other than God
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wanted to bring me in and give me an opportunity for some sanctification, I guess, and maybe
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be able to tell a story a little bit to some folks about what He does and about abortion
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and just the goodness of our Lord.
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So that's the only thing I can think of.
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There's nothing in this world that says I should be involved in this case.
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Well, Steve, talk to us about the legalities of this because if I remember correctly, the
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fine is a half year for the FACE Act violation, but there's something with a conspiracy where
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it became a felony.
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Explain about that.
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Yeah, as you say, under FACE, a nonviolent first offense, which this is qualified for,
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can be sentenced up to six months in prison.
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And incidentally, the whole concept behind FACE, it prohibits acts of force, there were
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none here, threats of force, there were none here, and physical obstruction.
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Paul didn't physically obstruct anything.
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Even the prosecutors concede that.
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There is no allegation, there is no evidence that Paul ever blocked anything.
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That should have been the end of the story.
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But instead, what they've done, again, only since the overturning of Roe against Wade,
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is they've extended the prosecutions under FACE to claim that folks like Paul aided and
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abetted those that actually did obstruct.
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And then, as you alluded to, they bring in for the first time ever a felony conspiracy
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against rights charge, which carries up to 10 years in the federal penitentiary.
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10 years for conspiring to save babies or to pray and sing hymns outside an abortion clinic.
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It is just extraordinary.
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It is totally contrary to all the principles of criminal law.
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I think that the United States Constitution stands for, respecting as the First Amendment
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embodies that right of peaceful civil disobedience.
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You know, and that's the scary thing to me is that we have officials in what Donald Trump
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called the swamp, who are using the law to weaponize, and we're not here to talk politics,
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but this is what's happening to Donald Trump.
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You know, where they took a loan where people didn't lose one penny, where the people who
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made the loan said they'd make it again, but they were able to use that and then levy
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a $355 million fine.
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I mean, it boggles the mind.
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And to think that if they can do it to Donald Trump or Paul Vaughn, they can do it to any
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of us.
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And at the risk of inserting my own little trivial story, I had a situation with the
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state of Florida, which is a red state, but we were audited for sales tax, and we've always
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been very careful to pay our taxes.
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We found out there was an obscure law that if you get subscriptions, you're supposed
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to pay a use tax, which is like a sales tax from another state.
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And we got, I don't know, seven or 10 professional journals, you know, for the staff, and they
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caught us.
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And I said, we didn't know about this law.
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My CPA said they put it on the book so they can catch you in an audit.
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And they were fairly expensive subscriptions, and it came to like $7,000 or $8,000 over
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a period of five years.
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They multiplied it by five years.
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We had to pay a fine over magazine subscription use tax.
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And I thought, we're so careful to follow the law.
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I said, where do you send the money in Tallahassee?
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I mean, I just thought it was ludicrous.
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Now my little case pales by comparison.
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The only reason I bring it up is that I have seen with my own eyes that I'm vulnerable
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for something that I would have never in the world thought that the state of Florida would
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come in and fine us over something so trivial.
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And I think that it's important at a lot of different levels that you win this case.
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But part of it is so that the lawmakers put in place actual punishment from bureaucrats
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who weaponize our laws against ordinary Americans.
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We do need laws to take care of the criminals, but we don't want to criminalize just normal
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Americans doing the kinds of things we do day to day.
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So as we wrap up the podcast, I want to give each of you an opportunity to make a final
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statement and also tell me and my viewers what we can do to help.
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And I know it's going to start with prayer and prayer is powerful.
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We believe that the unseen world is more real than the world that we see.
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We know there's power in prayer, but we can't just pray and do nothing.
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And my doing this podcast is my way to do something.
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But I want to motivate people.
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Can we donate to the Thomas Moore Society?
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Can we write letters to the governor?
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What can we do?
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Maybe we need to talk about this among the people in our churches and our sphere of influence.
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I want to hear from you what we can do so that we have a takeaway from this very important
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and very interesting podcast.
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Steve has some legal things.
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I know he can share it.
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I'll just share my art, Stephen.
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I think the very first thing we can do, just like I think your case points out as well,
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is we are a nation of people and we have what we consider a national character.
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And so the very first thing we can do is examine our own heart and ask, like the disciples,
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as Lord is it me in relation to Judas and what was going to betray him?
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It's so easy to point the fingers at Washington, D.C. or the deep state or someone else.
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But I was struck in what God showed me through this trial is that of 150 jurors to seat the
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final jury that we had, the level of—and they're not bad people.
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They're not—you know, liberty requires work and effort.
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And we have to be diligent.
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As American people, we have an obligation to be educated about the system that we live
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under.
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And if we don't understand the laws and the rules and if we don't understand what a jury
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is for, then the jury is that important safety valve that check against tyranny.
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And in this case, none of the jurors understood that.
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And it was evident, you know, across the board.
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One of the lawyers asked, you know, was talking about, you know, before this trial, before
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there's a guilty verdict, everyone is presumed innocent.
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And he talked for a few minutes.
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He said, now, if the judge made you make a decision right now, what would your—what
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would your verdict be?
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Guilty or not guilty?
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And out of 150, I think, well, actually, there's probably 80 in the room at that point.
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One person out of 80 said they're not guilty.
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They haven't had a trial yet, right?
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So the presumption of innocence.
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And even something in their mind.
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And I say that just kind of speaking more to the moral character of our nation and just
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our responsibility to one another, our responsibility to God.
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We have become a comfortable people, a people, I'd say, of convenience, not of conviction.
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And so I would start, you know, the judgment starts in the house of the Lord.
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And I would ask the church to certainly be praying, but also examine our own lives as
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a people, as church members and as members of America and responsible to one another.
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How are we living?
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And what are we ordering our life by?
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Are we going after—is our life structured by the same things as those people outside
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the church?
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Are we looking for, you know, money and power and greed and influence and those things?
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Are we looking to serve God?
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And so to me, that's what I'm seeing in this.
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And that was, I think, long-term solutions.
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I'm thinking, you know, 10, 20 year plan here, not next week and not certainly by the
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end of the trial.
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But that's one thing that I feel like God's showing me and kind of what's been on my
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heart and how I'm praying for these things.
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Well said.
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Steve, can you add to that?
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And also, can this thing or will this go to the Supreme Court and get overturned?
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Yeah, let me answer that last question first, if I may, Stephen.
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We don't have sentencing here until July the 2nd.
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We will immediately appeal, take it to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati,
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and we're fully prepared to go to the U.S. Supreme Court if necessary.
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We believe the FACE Act is unconstitutional, never should have been adopted in the first
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place.
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It's beyond the authority of the federal government to operate in the local criminal
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sphere.
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They did this on the pretext of interstate commerce.
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Well, nobody crosses state lines to go get an ultrasound these days, right?
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Once abortion is illegal, there's no basis for FACE, and arguably there was no basis
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to begin with.
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But as to what we can do, I would put it in three simple phrases, dovetailing with what
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Paul said first, of course, bow down.
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As Paul has reminded us throughout the proceedings here, even those folks that are in authority
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over us in this trial ultimately answer to the judge of all the earth who will indeed
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do right.
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So we as a people need to be repenting and seeking the face of God in the middle of this.
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I think it's beyond dispute that we are now a nation under judgment, the foundations are
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being shaken.
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It is an opportunity we've been given to return to the Lord rather than seeking respite and
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resolution in man.
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Secondly, we need to stand up.
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We have as a people, as Paul said, grown complacent.
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We've watched as the Department of Justice and other government entities have run roughshod
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over the fundamental rights of our fellows, like Donald Trump you mentioned earlier.
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And it ultimately falls on us to take responsibility and to ultimately speak out.
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So not only can we do, as you were saying, Steven, educate our circle of friends and
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spear of influence, but as a matter of fact, as we sit here today, bills have been introduced
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in Congress to repeal face, one in the House of Representatives, one in the Senate.
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We can be contacting our congressional delegations and urging them to sign on and make this bill
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happen.
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It started with Congress, it ought to end with Congress.
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But we would also appreciate, of course, the prayers and even financial support as we
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go forward.
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But you can reach our organization at thomasmoressociety.org.
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Thanks very much for the opportunity, by the way.
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And thank you to both of you for being on my podcast.
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And this afternoon, I happen to know both of our senators from Florida, and I'm going
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to write them an email.
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And I'm going to do it myself, and I'm going to make my first contribution to Thomas More
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Society.
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And I think that it's wonderful that there are a handful of legal organizations that
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will defend our rights, which is so important because ordinary people, even people with
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good jobs cannot afford huge, huge legal fees.
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And Donald Trump can afford it more than most of us.
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But they're trying to make that possible.
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Impossible for him, and you're right.
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It's a very, very serious thing that's going on in our country.
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We need revival in this country.
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But we also need to stand up.
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We still have rights.
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Our rights, we have not lost our rights.
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We are not a socialist government yet.
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We're just a government that is leaning in that direction in ways that none of us, when
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we were children, would have ever thought would happen.
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So I just commend both of you for your fortitude, for being so strong, and for being so articulate
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today.
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I just encourage people to share this with others, especially if you know people are
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concerned about these kinds of rights or they're involved with the pro-life movement.
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We need to get the word out.
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And I thank you for watching, and tune in again for another episode of the STRANG Report.
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Thank you to both of my guests for your time.
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We had a little bit of trouble setting it up, and it finally happened.
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Thank you again.
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God bless you.
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00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:02,880
Thank you, Steve.
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Thank you, Stephen.
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00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:15,360
Do you ever feel discouraged?
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00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:16,800
Do you need hope?
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00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,960
The world is so upside down that even if you believe there is power in the Holy Spirit,
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00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:28,600
you need to be reminded that greater is He that is within us than He is in the world.
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00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,960
My new book, Spirit-led Living in an Upside Down World, was written to give you hope,
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00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,460
to remind you of things you know, to explain spiritual truths that you didn't understand
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00:28:39,460 --> 00:28:41,840
or may be forgotten.
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00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:47,360
I draw in my decades of covering the worldwide move of the Holy Spirit to give you examples
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00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:53,760
and stories of great men and women of God, from Jack Hafer to Catherine Coleman, and
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00:28:53,760 --> 00:29:00,240
many others explaining spiritual gifts and telling stories of victory in the face of
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00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,640
trials and temptations.
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00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,160
I wrote this book for you, and I want you to read it.
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00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,600
It's easy to read, with lots of practical stories to help you.
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00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,920
It is not a theological treatise on the Holy Spirit.
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00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:19,720
In a way, it's a self-help book, looking at the spiritual side of life.
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00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,860
So if you long for more of God and to experience the power of the Holy Spirit and the power
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00:29:24,860 --> 00:29:31,840
to rebuke the spiritual attacks in your life and boldness to stand for God, when the cancel
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00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:37,820
culture wants you to sit down and shut up, then my book, Spirit-led Living in an Upside
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00:29:37,820 --> 00:29:40,160
Down World, is for you.
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00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:48,520
You can find the book wherever Christian books are sold, including Amazon.com or Mychorismashop.com.
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00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:55,960
Remember, the Holy Spirit is here to help us now and for all the days ahead, no matter
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00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,960
how upside down the world gets.
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00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:12,000
Enjoy the book and God bless you.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:16,120
Hello everyone, I'm Stephen Strang and welcome to this edition of the Strang Report.
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00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:22,320
Today we're going to talk about a very important issue and that is the pro-life stance and
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the difficulty that some people are having and where the government is actually being
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weaponized against those who are standing for life.
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And it's very, very serious at many different levels.
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And I happen to see my guest today, Paul Vaughn, on the Mike Huckabee show on TBN a couple
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of weeks ago and then last week at National Religious Broadcasters, he was with a group
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of people and we were talking and when I realized who he was, I invited him to be on my podcast
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because I believe this is something that everyone in the body of Christ, really every
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American needs to know and be aware of because in addition to the pro-life issue, there's
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the issue of our freedoms of if the government can come after people like you're going to
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hear now.
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So you don't want to miss this.
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In fact, share this with other people.
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00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,560
By the way, if you don't subscribe to the Strang Report, now is a good time to do it.
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Hit the little bell so you're notified when we're on live every Tuesday and Thursday at
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4 p.m. Eastern time.
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So let me start by introducing Paul Vaughn.
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He's the president of Personhood, Tennessee, and with him is his attorney who's a senior
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counsel for the Thomas Moore Society, which is a very respected law firm who is well known
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for promoting the pro-life stance.
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Thank you to you both for being on my podcast today.
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So how can you tell the story?
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I know the story, but not as well as you.
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So why don't you tell us what happened that caused you to be arrested for merely protesting
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peacefully in front of an abortion clinic?
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Sure, Stephen.
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And thanks for having us on.
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It's great to talk with you again.
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You know, the story covers a lot of ground.
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There's a lot of time in between the main elements of the story.
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And in March of 21, we were with a group of Christians at an abortion mill in Mount
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Julia, Tennessee.
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And we had a couple different groups there.
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We had people out on the sidewalk, you know, just singing and praying and stuff.
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It was a multi-tenant building.
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So the abortion clinic was actually inside a building, a medical office building where
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there were other businesses in there as well.
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So the dentist and chiropractors and other things like that.
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And so some of us went into the building.
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Some wanted to do what was common in the 90s, a rescue operation where they would sit near
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the door and try to, you know, give the sidewalk counselor's time to talk to women seeking
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abortion.
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And that's what personhood, part of our ministry's personhood is we did sidewalk counseling.
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And so we had sidewalk counseling teams in the hallway there and out in the parking lot.
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And we, you know, would engage with the moms coming into the building and coming down the
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hallway to the abortion clinic.
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So that's what we were doing that day.
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I ended up talking with the police officers and when they arrived on scene and helped,
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you know, just facilitate a peaceful resolution to the process.
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There were some people arrested for blocking doors that day for refusing to leave when
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the police told them to.
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I was not one of those.
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My sidewalk team was not one of those.
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We literally all we did that day was read the Bible, sing hymns and pray.
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And in my case, I talked to the police officers during the event inside and I talked to the
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media, you know, once the event was over outside.
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And that's the extent of my actions that day.
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All peacefully, you know, executed great report with the police officers that day and left
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with no arrest, no warnings, no nothing.
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Only to have the FBI show up a year and a half later in October of 22, banging on my
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door in the morning, you know, for armed, armed FBI agents with long guns and tactical
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gear telling me they were looking for me and arresting me in front of my wife and children
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and then taking me away without letting anyone know where I was.
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So for for six hours, I was basically kidnapped, where my family didn't know where I was.
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My sheriff didn't know where I was.
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The governor and state representatives of Tennessee didn't know where I was.
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And that was in the basement at the federal court building in downtown Nashville.
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And so what was the reason?
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Was it just to intimidate you?
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You know, you're a respected businessman in your community, father of 11 children.
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You have no criminal history.
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You were not a flight risk, as they say.
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So why didn't they just say, would you come down here?
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We have a few questions for you.
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Sure.
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You would think that'd be reasonable, right?
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That's a natural thing to do.
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I've been in the in the on the same form for 15 years.
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We own a business, as you said, for 11 and 12 and 12 years now.
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I hear serving our community and I would have gladly answered a call and come down to talk
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to them.
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But you know, the reality is, are all these processes are made up people and people that
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have individual character and different motives and things that drive them.
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And the actual reality is the lead FBI agent, Mark Schaefer, that led this case was the
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one that decided locally here in Tennessee, where there's only one where we had hardcore
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raids like at my house.
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All the other defendants in other states had very good congenial, you know, please come
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down and talk to us, kind of summons and warrants.
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But here in Tennessee, they kicked on the doors and drug us out and made a big harassing,
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you know, big, big statement in the media, as it were.
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And and the reality is, for whatever reason, this Mark Schaefer 30 days after this event
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got promoted to the office of congressional affairs in Washington, DC.
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So he moved up in the world and and we moved down to the basement of the federal building.
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And then tell us about this law.
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I remember from hearing you talk about it, that is called face, which I'm not sure what
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it stands for, and it was passed in the 90s to give people access, I guess, to abortion
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clinics.
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But also, there are other things that gave people access to like churches.
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You know, there are a few radicals who sometimes were blocked churches and do harassing things
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like that.
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It's not real real common, but it has happened.
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And so supposedly this law was supposed fairly even handed.
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I had barely heard about it and not much has happened in the 30 years or so since it was
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passed.
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So why don't you bring us up to date and explain what face means?
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Yeah, I can give you a little bit of history on it.
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And then Steve has some some brand new data out that we were talking about the other day
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about how you'd be surprised how many churches and pro-life pregnancy centers are being vandalized
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and and abused and not picking up face charges as is available under the face act.
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But if you remember in the early pro-life movement back in the 80s and 90s, there were
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a lot of people.
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And as a matter of fact, there were 77,000 Christians arrested out at abortion clinics
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in the 80s and 90s.
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And for a nonviolent civil disobedience, they were simply sitting down at the doors of the
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abortion clinics doing an old fashioned sit in identifying with the babies and saying,
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if babies are going to die, we believe they're human.
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We believe their life is valuable.
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And we believe it to such an extent.
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We're willing to lay down our freedoms because of our beliefs.
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And so 77,000 some odd Christians were arrested and they were being very effective and abortion
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clinics were being closed down.
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And so the federal government had to shuffle around and figure out how do we stop these
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Christians?
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We want this, you know, baby killing to go on.
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We want to be able to have abortion on demand.
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And so the face bill was the product of that that scenario there.
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And to be fair, at the same time, it really, I think it's probably more because of the
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face act than the face act leading.
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There was some violence.
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There were some radical individuals that were not part of the mainstream pro-life movement.
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And you know, there were abortionists later on that were killed and there was violence
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and vandalism done at abortion clinics by again, a few radical rogue individuals, but
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not by mainstream Christians.
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But I think, you know, part of that is when you shut down the ability for the mainstream
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to respond in a peaceful manner, then what you inevitably do is radicalize those kind
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of on the extreme that have strong opinions or have been hurt by abortion.
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And now they feel like they have no voice.
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So they end up resorting to violence is, I think, the net effect.
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But like I said, Steve has some even breaking even in the last week, some statistics.
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So tell us about your esteem, your counsel.
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That sounds very impressive.
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You're just great here.
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You know, the Thomas More Society, as I said earlier, has a great reputation.
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Is it owned by the Catholic Church?
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I think of it as being Roman Catholic and the Catholics, of course, were the first ones
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to really stand up with the abortion issue when it became, well, I guess there was abortion
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before Roe v. Wade wasn't there.
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It just wasn't legal.
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And but abortion is certainly something in the last century.
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And so I'm assuming that you I should have probably asked you this off camera, but I
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think of the Thomas More Society as operating pro bono for these defendants.
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Exactly right.
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We're a public interest law firm.
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So we render our services, as you say, pro bono.
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And we concentrate a great deal in the pro life arena.
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So we are kind of the first line of defense when sidewalk counselors, as Paul alluded
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to, and folks involved in pro life efforts find themselves on the wrong end of the law.
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Unlike several public interest firms, we also work in the criminal arena, hence our defense
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of Paul.
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And by the way, Stephen, you mentioned that this is maybe an isolated case off camera.
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We were talking about it.
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In fact, there's a series of these criminal face cases brought by the weaponized Department
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of Justice in the wake of the Supreme Court's actions in overturning Roe against Wade in
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June of 2022.
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These kind of throw the book out of actions were unheard of previously.
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But as soon as the Supreme Court stood up and there was an actual action pushing back
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against the abortion lobby, suddenly it's Katie bar the door with regard to the Department
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of Justice and the FBI coming after pro lifers that had engaged, as Paul said, in nothing
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more than peaceful sit-ins.
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So you mentioned the brief history of face in the, what, 30 years or so leading up to
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the Dobs decision in 2022.
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Most of the litigation under face was brought in a civil context.
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The few criminal ones involved the more extreme cases where, for instance, an individual would
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weld himself to a car in front of an abortion clinic entrance, that sort of thing, right?
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But all of a sudden then come the Dobs decision and they're reaching back.
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In Paul's case, the incident occurred, as he said, in March of 2021.
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It wasn't until October 2022 after the Dobs decision that they swooped down and arrest
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him with guns drawn.
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So there's such a clearly political nature to these prosecutions.
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I think persecutions is a fair descriptor of the way they've conducted themselves.
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But as you alluded to also, Stephen, the face act covers not only abortion clinics and freedom
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of access to the clinic's offering so-called reproductive health services, but also access
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to churches and pro-life pregnancy resource centers.
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And it also protects, by the way, the facility itself.
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So if you bomb an abortion clinic instead of just blocking entrance, then you can be
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prosecuted in an interface.
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By the same token, if you fire bomb a church or a pregnancy resource center, you can be
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prosecuted.
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And this has happened.
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And there's times.
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I only know what I see on the news, but I've seen pictures of graffiti on the wall, bombing.
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Sometimes windows are blown out.
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I don't think anyone was killed.
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And if I remember correctly, there were almost no charges brought as if they couldn't find
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out who did it.
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And it happened.
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In the case, since the announcement of the Dobs decision, there have been over 100 pro-life
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pregnancy resource centers that have been attacked and over 300 churches.
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The Family Research Council just released last week a report of violence against churches
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and acts of hostility generally detailing in the calendar year 2023 alone, 315 instances
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of attacks on churches, virtually zero arrests for face violations in those things.
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And if there's any action taken at all, it's by the local authorities, not the feds.
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They seem to have no interest in protecting the churches that theoretically are equal
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to the abortion clinics.
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So why did they target Paul Vaughn?
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Because by his own description just now, this happened a year and a half before he wasn't
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arrested.
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If I remember right, you told Mike Huckabee that you had a nice conversation with the
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police, nothing unusual, when they arrested you, I guess at first, you didn't even connect
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the dots and figure out what they were coming.
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So why did they target you?
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That's a great question.
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I'm still waiting to find the answer.
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I really think it's simply, Stephen, God moves in ways we don't understand.
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I look at it and there's no logical reason for me to be involved in this.
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I didn't break any rules, I didn't break the law.
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I was very careful, I've told the story.
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We have a three-year-old, as well as three-year-old this coming month that was due at the time.
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And so I was very cautious and very mindful of the coming birth that was due within a
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week of that event.
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And so there's just no logical reason that I should be involved in this other than God
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wanted to bring me in and give me an opportunity for some sanctification, I guess, and maybe
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be able to tell a story a little bit to some folks about what He does and about abortion
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and just the goodness of our Lord.
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So that's the only thing I can think of.
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There's nothing in this world that says I should be involved in this case.
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Well, Steve, talk to us about the legalities of this because if I remember correctly, the
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fine is a half year for the FACE Act violation, but there's something with a conspiracy where
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it became a felony.
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Explain about that.
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Yeah, as you say, under FACE, a nonviolent first offense, which this is qualified for,
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can be sentenced up to six months in prison.
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And incidentally, the whole concept behind FACE, it prohibits acts of force, there were
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none here, threats of force, there were none here, and physical obstruction.
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Paul didn't physically obstruct anything.
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Even the prosecutors concede that.
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There is no allegation, there is no evidence that Paul ever blocked anything.
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That should have been the end of the story.
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But instead, what they've done, again, only since the overturning of Roe against Wade,
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is they've extended the prosecutions under FACE to claim that folks like Paul aided and
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abetted those that actually did obstruct.
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And then, as you alluded to, they bring in for the first time ever a felony conspiracy
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against rights charge, which carries up to 10 years in the federal penitentiary.
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10 years for conspiring to save babies or to pray and sing hymns outside an abortion clinic.
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It is just extraordinary.
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It is totally contrary to all the principles of criminal law.
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I think that the United States Constitution stands for, respecting as the First Amendment
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embodies that right of peaceful civil disobedience.
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You know, and that's the scary thing to me is that we have officials in what Donald Trump
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called the swamp, who are using the law to weaponize, and we're not here to talk politics,
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but this is what's happening to Donald Trump.
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You know, where they took a loan where people didn't lose one penny, where the people who
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made the loan said they'd make it again, but they were able to use that and then levy
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a $355 million fine.
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I mean, it boggles the mind.
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And to think that if they can do it to Donald Trump or Paul Vaughn, they can do it to any
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of us.
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And at the risk of inserting my own little trivial story, I had a situation with the
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state of Florida, which is a red state, but we were audited for sales tax, and we've always
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been very careful to pay our taxes.
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We found out there was an obscure law that if you get subscriptions, you're supposed
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to pay a use tax, which is like a sales tax from another state.
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And we got, I don't know, seven or 10 professional journals, you know, for the staff, and they
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caught us.
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And I said, we didn't know about this law.
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My CPA said they put it on the book so they can catch you in an audit.
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And they were fairly expensive subscriptions, and it came to like $7,000 or $8,000 over
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a period of five years.
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They multiplied it by five years.
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We had to pay a fine over magazine subscription use tax.
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And I thought, we're so careful to follow the law.
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I said, where do you send the money in Tallahassee?
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I mean, I just thought it was ludicrous.
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Now my little case pales by comparison.
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The only reason I bring it up is that I have seen with my own eyes that I'm vulnerable
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for something that I would have never in the world thought that the state of Florida would
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come in and fine us over something so trivial.
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And I think that it's important at a lot of different levels that you win this case.
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But part of it is so that the lawmakers put in place actual punishment from bureaucrats
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who weaponize our laws against ordinary Americans.
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We do need laws to take care of the criminals, but we don't want to criminalize just normal
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Americans doing the kinds of things we do day to day.
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So as we wrap up the podcast, I want to give each of you an opportunity to make a final
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statement and also tell me and my viewers what we can do to help.
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And I know it's going to start with prayer and prayer is powerful.
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We believe that the unseen world is more real than the world that we see.
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We know there's power in prayer, but we can't just pray and do nothing.
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And my doing this podcast is my way to do something.
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But I want to motivate people.
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Can we donate to the Thomas Moore Society?
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Can we write letters to the governor?
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What can we do?
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Maybe we need to talk about this among the people in our churches and our sphere of influence.
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I want to hear from you what we can do so that we have a takeaway from this very important
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and very interesting podcast.
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Steve has some legal things.
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I know he can share it.
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I'll just share my art, Stephen.
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I think the very first thing we can do, just like I think your case points out as well,
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is we are a nation of people and we have what we consider a national character.
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And so the very first thing we can do is examine our own heart and ask, like the disciples,
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as Lord is it me in relation to Judas and what was going to betray him?
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It's so easy to point the fingers at Washington, D.C. or the deep state or someone else.
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But I was struck in what God showed me through this trial is that of 150 jurors to seat the
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final jury that we had, the level of—and they're not bad people.
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They're not—you know, liberty requires work and effort.
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And we have to be diligent.
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As American people, we have an obligation to be educated about the system that we live
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under.
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And if we don't understand the laws and the rules and if we don't understand what a jury
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is for, then the jury is that important safety valve that check against tyranny.
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And in this case, none of the jurors understood that.
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And it was evident, you know, across the board.
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One of the lawyers asked, you know, was talking about, you know, before this trial, before
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there's a guilty verdict, everyone is presumed innocent.
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And he talked for a few minutes.
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He said, now, if the judge made you make a decision right now, what would your—what
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would your verdict be?
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Guilty or not guilty?
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And out of 150, I think, well, actually, there's probably 80 in the room at that point.
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One person out of 80 said they're not guilty.
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They haven't had a trial yet, right?
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So the presumption of innocence.
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And even something in their mind.
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And I say that just kind of speaking more to the moral character of our nation and just
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our responsibility to one another, our responsibility to God.
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We have become a comfortable people, a people, I'd say, of convenience, not of conviction.
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And so I would start, you know, the judgment starts in the house of the Lord.
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And I would ask the church to certainly be praying, but also examine our own lives as
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a people, as church members and as members of America and responsible to one another.
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How are we living?
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And what are we ordering our life by?
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Are we going after—is our life structured by the same things as those people outside
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the church?
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Are we looking for, you know, money and power and greed and influence and those things?
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Are we looking to serve God?
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And so to me, that's what I'm seeing in this.
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And that was, I think, long-term solutions.
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I'm thinking, you know, 10, 20 year plan here, not next week and not certainly by the
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end of the trial.
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But that's one thing that I feel like God's showing me and kind of what's been on my
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heart and how I'm praying for these things.
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Well said.
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Steve, can you add to that?
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And also, can this thing or will this go to the Supreme Court and get overturned?
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Yeah, let me answer that last question first, if I may, Stephen.
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We don't have sentencing here until July the 2nd.
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We will immediately appeal, take it to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati,
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and we're fully prepared to go to the U.S. Supreme Court if necessary.
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We believe the FACE Act is unconstitutional, never should have been adopted in the first
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place.
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It's beyond the authority of the federal government to operate in the local criminal
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sphere.
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They did this on the pretext of interstate commerce.
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Well, nobody crosses state lines to go get an ultrasound these days, right?
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Once abortion is illegal, there's no basis for FACE, and arguably there was no basis
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to begin with.
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But as to what we can do, I would put it in three simple phrases, dovetailing with what
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Paul said first, of course, bow down.
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As Paul has reminded us throughout the proceedings here, even those folks that are in authority
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over us in this trial ultimately answer to the judge of all the earth who will indeed
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do right.
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So we as a people need to be repenting and seeking the face of God in the middle of this.
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I think it's beyond dispute that we are now a nation under judgment, the foundations are
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being shaken.
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It is an opportunity we've been given to return to the Lord rather than seeking respite and
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resolution in man.
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Secondly, we need to stand up.
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We have as a people, as Paul said, grown complacent.
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We've watched as the Department of Justice and other government entities have run roughshod
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over the fundamental rights of our fellows, like Donald Trump you mentioned earlier.
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And it ultimately falls on us to take responsibility and to ultimately speak out.
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So not only can we do, as you were saying, Steven, educate our circle of friends and
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spear of influence, but as a matter of fact, as we sit here today, bills have been introduced
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in Congress to repeal face, one in the House of Representatives, one in the Senate.
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We can be contacting our congressional delegations and urging them to sign on and make this bill
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happen.
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It started with Congress, it ought to end with Congress.
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But we would also appreciate, of course, the prayers and even financial support as we
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go forward.
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But you can reach our organization at thomasmoressociety.org.
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Thanks very much for the opportunity, by the way.
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And thank you to both of you for being on my podcast.
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And this afternoon, I happen to know both of our senators from Florida, and I'm going
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to write them an email.
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And I'm going to do it myself, and I'm going to make my first contribution to Thomas More
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Society.
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And I think that it's wonderful that there are a handful of legal organizations that
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will defend our rights, which is so important because ordinary people, even people with
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good jobs cannot afford huge, huge legal fees.
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And Donald Trump can afford it more than most of us.
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But they're trying to make that possible.
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Impossible for him, and you're right.
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It's a very, very serious thing that's going on in our country.
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We need revival in this country.
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But we also need to stand up.
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We still have rights.
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Our rights, we have not lost our rights.
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We are not a socialist government yet.
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We're just a government that is leaning in that direction in ways that none of us, when
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we were children, would have ever thought would happen.
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So I just commend both of you for your fortitude, for being so strong, and for being so articulate
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today.
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I just encourage people to share this with others, especially if you know people are
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concerned about these kinds of rights or they're involved with the pro-life movement.
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We need to get the word out.
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And I thank you for watching, and tune in again for another episode of the STRANG Report.
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Thank you to both of my guests for your time.
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We had a little bit of trouble setting it up, and it finally happened.
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Thank you again.
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God bless you.
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Thank you, Steve.
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Thank you, Stephen.
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Do you ever feel discouraged?
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00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:16,800
Do you need hope?
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00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,960
The world is so upside down that even if you believe there is power in the Holy Spirit,
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00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:28,600
you need to be reminded that greater is He that is within us than He is in the world.
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00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,960
My new book, Spirit-led Living in an Upside Down World, was written to give you hope,
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00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,460
to remind you of things you know, to explain spiritual truths that you didn't understand
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00:28:39,460 --> 00:28:41,840
or may be forgotten.
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00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:47,360
I draw in my decades of covering the worldwide move of the Holy Spirit to give you examples
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00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:53,760
and stories of great men and women of God, from Jack Hafer to Catherine Coleman, and
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00:28:53,760 --> 00:29:00,240
many others explaining spiritual gifts and telling stories of victory in the face of
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00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,640
trials and temptations.
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00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,160
I wrote this book for you, and I want you to read it.
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00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,600
It's easy to read, with lots of practical stories to help you.
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00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,920
It is not a theological treatise on the Holy Spirit.
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00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:19,720
In a way, it's a self-help book, looking at the spiritual side of life.
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00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,860
So if you long for more of God and to experience the power of the Holy Spirit and the power
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00:29:24,860 --> 00:29:31,840
to rebuke the spiritual attacks in your life and boldness to stand for God, when the cancel
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00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:37,820
culture wants you to sit down and shut up, then my book, Spirit-led Living in an Upside
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00:29:37,820 --> 00:29:40,160
Down World, is for you.
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00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:48,520
You can find the book wherever Christian books are sold, including Amazon.com or Mychorismashop.com.
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00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:55,960
Remember, the Holy Spirit is here to help us now and for all the days ahead, no matter
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00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,960
how upside down the world gets.
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00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:12,000
Enjoy the book and God bless you.
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