Pastor Lucas Miles Gideon Moment With Cancel Culture

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All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Supernatural Junkies. This is Alex.

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I'm here today with the docs yet again, and a very special guest,

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Lucas Miles. Kevin, do the honors.

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So Lucas, you'll see, we've got to see Lucas a couple of times and we know faces

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and we've read all of his books.

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And of course he's got this influencer church.

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I mean, you know, this is a pretty cool idea. His church is called Influencer.

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So he's written two books, Woke Jesus, and actually we cover a lot of that narrative.

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It was so good. It actually made cliff notes for you.

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So when you're coming around with the cliff notes, make sure you talk to me

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because we're halfway there.

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And of course, the one before that was the Christian Left.

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And it was kind of a breakthrough book because it was helping us to see kind

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of what's happening in the world for us Christians with this alternative false

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gospel that's coming out. So welcome, Lucas Miles.

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Thank you so much for having me. I know we've been trying to do this for a while,

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and it's great to be with you guys.

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And I've got a lot of love for the area of Florida that you're in.

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I just found so many great partners down there and friends in ministry and really

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this culture war that we're in. And it's great to be with you guys.

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Well, I'll share with you quite a few things you've said that are when you were

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here. I took notes of that too, but, uh, but you know, they were kind of like

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game changers that you, we, we knew that you were one of our, one of us.

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Awesome. What he's trying to say is he's a fan boy.

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I'll take it. I'll take it. I appreciate that. No, great seeing you guys and excited to jump in here.

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Good, good, good. So I'm going to take you back. So, you know,

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cause you have a really interesting story, but when you think about,

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you know, when did you kind of decide, cause you know, this is something people don't hear.

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Year, what could make you decide to be a pastor or how does that really work? What happened for you?

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Yeah, you know, so I was a kid who grew up in the church.

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I had sort of what I would call like a Samuel experience where I was just,

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I lived about a mile or two from the church.

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I was here all the time, after school, weekends, playing basketball in the gym.

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I used to break into the gym so much at our church that they eventually gave me a key.

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And at like 12 or 13 years old, to 12 or 13 years old.

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I think I was the only kid in town that had a key to a 30,000 square foot church

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building. And I'd go there whenever I wanted and play.

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And just had a really healthy experience with pastors and mentors in the church at that time.

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I know that there's people that have had tragic experiences in church before,

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and they had that what I call post-traumatic church disorder as a result of it.

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But for me, early on, it was very positive. Parents were believers.

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But honestly, I probably had a little bit of a legalistic framework.

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I didn't really know it. And I look back on that with...

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Not with bitterness, but just a thankfulness that God's brought me to where

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I am and understanding the gospel of grace and these things.

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But the big turning point for me was I went to a, it was a Christ in youth conference

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in, gosh, it would have been the summer after my freshman year of high school.

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And there was a pastor on stage. His name was Mike. He was a kind of a circuit

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youth speaker from Illinois.

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And he did this message. At the end of the message, it was kind of this this evangelistic call.

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And this is, again, this is a church of Christ event. Like we didn't believe

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in gifts of the Holy spirit and operation.

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We didn't believe in really the Holy spirit doing anything, you know,

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in that matter, you know, in today's world.

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And, and so it was kind of radical for him to do this, but he gets up on the

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stage. He goes, look, I'm going to pray for everybody. And there's 1200 kids in the room.

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He goes that, that God would give you a name of somebody that when you get home,

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that you're supposed to call them and basically tell them about the Lord or

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ask them how you can pray for them or whatever it was. It's just very simple simple thing.

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And, you know, he just gave us 30 seconds and this girl's name pops in my head.

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And, you know, at that time, freshman high school, I think I was still scared of girls.

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I might still be scared of girls. You know, I don't know, but it,

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I get, I get home from this event and I call this girl and this before cell

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phones, you know, it's her house phone.

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And she just happened to answer and something sounded off right away.

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You know, this is like Saturday night I'm calling her from, and this had happened

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on Wednesday with the pastor had spoke.

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And I said hey I said you know and you know

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kind of I mean I had didn't have a habit of this wasn't really

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like an off friend of mine that I was super close to so I was like hey I'm Lucas

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from your you know German class you know this might seem weird but like I was

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at this youth thing and this pastor said somebody's name was going to come into

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your head and I thought of you and I don't know what to do with this but is

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there anything I can pray for you about and she just starts crying and.

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And I'm going, you know, what's going on? What did I do? You know,

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I tried it. She finally settles down. I said, what happened?

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And she goes, what day was that? And I said, it was Wednesday. She loses it.

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And she finally settles down. What time? I said, 830. She loses it again.

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And, you know, finally, after all of this, she kind of pulls herself,

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you know, a little bit more together.

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And she goes, we got a call Wednesday at 830 that my brother jumped off the

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Golden Gate Bridge and killed himself. herself.

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And the moment her name came into my head was the moment that that phone call

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was coming to her house to let them know.

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Now, at the time, I mean, I had no equipping to know what to do with that.

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I'm a 15-year-old kid. I don't remember what I said. I don't remember.

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Now, I was able to baptize this gal about three or four years after that.

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She was kind of a staunch atheist at the time.

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But it was one of those things where it was transformational to me that I knew that God spoke to me.

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I knew that I heard from him and it really shaped a lot of future things for me.

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I felt a real call into ministry early on. After that, I started preaching at

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17, planted the church that I'm still pastoring now, Influence Church,

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and there's no I if people are looking for us. It's just capital N at the front there.

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And that's been 20 years ago now that I planted the church.

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And so I'm going to be 45 in the fall, but doing this a while as a senior pastor

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and really seeing a lot of these trends in the church you know happen nationwide

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and that kind of brought me a lot to to where i am today.

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Okay, wow. So I remember, I know you guys got more questions,

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but I was like, a teenage pastor, what? what?

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Yeah. Yeah. 17. I was, I didn't have my own church yet, but I was preaching at 17 here and there.

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You know, we didn't have a youth pastor during my later years in high school.

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And so I kind of became sort of a leader among my peers, you know,

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would lead Bible studies, would kind of act as a, as a student leader in that way.

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And it kind of brought me into it. Now I, you know, look, it's,

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I don't know if that's for everybody, but you know, God just kind of threw me

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in early and, you know, planted our first church by the time I was 24. I was a senior pastor.

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I see a lot of 24-year-olds that haven't left their parents' house yet, you know, today.

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And I don't have condemnation for that, but it's just hard for me to relate

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because it's like, I was married at 21, you know, and it was go mode, you know?

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And so, we've been kind of just hustling ever since.

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Wait, don't you mean 34-year-olds? Yes, I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry. 42, they're still living in their parents' basement, right? Yeah. Yeah.

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And the wild thing is, when I first became a youth pastor, it was at the church that I'd grown up in.

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And I spent a couple years there as a youth pastor.

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And that church ended up closing down in 2008.

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And the very church that I told you that I used to break into as a kid is actually

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the building that I am in now for Influence Church that I pastor at.

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And so I'm literally preaching from the pulpit of the church that I grew up

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in and God brought us like back full circle.

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And so it's been pretty wild. So we're trying to modernize the building and

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really develop it further, but it's on like the best corner in town. It's been incredible.

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Wow. Lucas, I remember when I first met you, I think I was about 27 and you about 56. Just teasing.

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When I first met you, you were I believe early forties, many years ago,

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but But yeah, Tampa, it was at Latara Cedar and we had lunch and I'd heard you speak.

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And I listened closely that with that theological mindset of mine, but I listened to you.

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And the more I listen to you, I said, this is a very sharp, this is a very sharp.

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And so afterward, I remember down and started talking.

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And the next thing I know, you're sitting there just like you're looking like

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you're looking right now.

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And I remember having to say, oh man, I'm sorry.

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I started talking. I never stopped. And about 45 minutes had passed.

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And you would, you probably remember that. You would just sit there.

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And I'm like, if he just says, I understand. I know he's saying within himself,

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man, this guy can talk. But you said, oh, no, that's no problem.

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That's no problem. I love hearing things. I love learning.

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And it's like this man said he loves learning. And this man is,

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but I admit it with you at that point.

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And, you know, you know, we did because every now and then I'll hit you here

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and there. And the beautiful thing I like about you is your humility, your humility.

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Because it can be like less than five minutes and you're hitting it right back. Boom.

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I mean, one time you did it. You said, well, I'm in Canada right now,

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but when I should break, you can.

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And I'm like, so I really love that about you, man. And I just wanted to share that.

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No, thank you. I remember that well and had some good food and we sat by each

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other, you know, at dinner.

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And, you know, it's always interesting. Whenever I go into a place,

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you never know what people are going to think.

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And, you know, you get brought in, but sometimes not everybody's on the same

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page. And so you're always a little bit guarded of where's this person going

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to be? What are they going to think? That sort of thing.

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But look, we had a great conversation. And I do. I love learning.

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There's a lot of guys that do what I do. And they travel around the country

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and they speak and everything else.

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And sometimes they never shut up. It's their thing.

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They're not really looking to learn. They're just there to talk.

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And look, I don't have it all figured out. I think that I'm here where I'm at

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today because I've had some great mentors. tours.

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I've had some great people, you know, in my life speak into me.

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I've been able to learn from others that have some different, you know, experiences.

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And I think that, you know, in our push against kind of this woke culture and

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our push against this pagan uprising and all this sort of stuff,

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you know, I think that it's important that we still take moments to learn and

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to listen because, you know, sometimes it's not that people are against God.

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It's that they're looking for Him in the wrong places. And we can have kind

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of that, like what we see in the book of Acts where Paul, you know,

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directs them to, hey, you know, the statue over here to the unknown God,

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you know, you're actually worshiping the real God, but you don't know it.

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You know, let me fill in the details for you.

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And so, you know, there's always stuff we can learn and I think it makes a better ministry.

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But man, I've enjoyed knowing you, doctor, and it's been a few years now,

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like you said, and it's always good to see you.

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So, of course, I love to go to your first book a little bit.

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And, of course, we're talking about, you know, the Christian left.

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And, of course, we all know that there's this prophetic thing going on in the

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world that, you know, we're seeing this great falling away.

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Right. Right. Yeah. But what you've done so great in that book is to outline

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how this is happening and really the picking up of communism.

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Right. And you go back to Hegelian dialectic and just tell us a little bit of

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how you've seen this kind of develop this false Christian church with a false Christ as well.

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Yeah, I think I think the attitude in general among conservatives is changing.

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There's there's a lot of learning that people have been doing the last few years.

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I think that COVID accelerated that in some ways that when we started seeing

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this tyrannical overreach that people said, man, I got to dig in and see what's

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really going on and what's behind the scenes here.

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But I wrote The Christian Left. It came out right in the middle of COVID.

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And I was writing it before COVID where I did most of the writing for the book.

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And at that time, people weren't really aware of the history of these things.

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They mistakenly thought that progressivism started with Obama.

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You know, it's like, yeah, he was part of it and he accelerated it.

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But, you know, this was going on way before him and there were other factors at play.

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And so, you know, in really both the Christian left and woke Jesus,

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woke Jesus probably has more of a deep dive into the history of this.

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But, you know, in my work, I've gone back to, you know, as early as the 1700s

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and arguably before that with kind of the impact of Gnosticism and sort of this

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Gnostic framework that we're seeing,

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but really following through philosophy and through theology,

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how people have begun to distance themselves from seeing the Bible as the word

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of God. They take on kind of this diminished view of scripture.

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I think that's really kind of the breaking point for a lot of people.

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I think that also starting to see Jesus more as like the great social justice

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warrior rather than the savior of the world. That's been a major factor.

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In the 1800s, it was known as the quest for the historical Jesus.

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There was a strong push to kind of rediscover Jesus outside of the scriptures,

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more in sort of this imagined thought of him as a great teacher and a great

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servant and prophet, but not necessarily Lord.

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And I think that shapes a lot of what we see today, even things like most recently

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here that he gets this campaign is really based upon that historical Jesus.

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And again, when I say that term, I don't mean the historical Jesus as in the Jesus who who lived.

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I mean, the historical Jesus, that's a theological term for a belief that the

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true Jesus is not the Jesus in the Bible,

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but it's the Jesus that you find when you cut away the myth and the fable of

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scripture is the way that they would state it in order to find kind of the true Jesus.

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Obviously, I think that's heretical. I think that's a false belief.

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The true Jesus is the Jesus that's revealed in scripture, but people are kind

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of fabricated in Frankenstein, their own version of Christ that's,

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I think, led a lot of people astray.

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Now, Dr. Dozier, I know you want to say something right now,

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but, you know, Dr. Dozier and I've had this conversation multiple times.

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And so when we got to see your book, then you just lay it all out so beautifully.

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It's just a great job. Thank you.

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Yeah, I think when we first talked, we might have talked about a little bit

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about liberation theology and James Cone and some things, Dr.

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Dozier, when we've, you know, chatted, if I remember right.

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And, you know, it's, you know, this has been going on for a while.

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You know, this isn't a new thing. I mean, we hear this term,

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the long march of communism and Marxist ideology.

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And now it's been a long march, but now it feels like a sprint.

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It feels like this acceleration when we're seeing a president kind of try to

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cancel Easter in favor of a trans visibility day.

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I stood up at our church on Sunday of Easter in 2024 here, just for context

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for people listening to this in the future.

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And you know i said look this is in case

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you haven't heard this is national resurrection visibility day you

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know this is this is what this is and you know and

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i talked about a little bit but i said look you know just to kind of cover this this

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cultural hot button right now is that that look i do

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believe in trans visibility and what i mean by that is

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this god sees you he sees what you're going through

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he sees where you're at he sees the hurt the pain he sees the victimization

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that's happened to you he sees the sin he sees the the wrong beliefs he sees

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the way in which which the medical industry has tried to capitalize on the mental

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challenges that have happened and the struggles that are there in that community.

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And He wants something better for you. And He loves you so much that He does

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see you, and He wants to see you conform to the image of Christ.

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That's true transvisibility from a Christian perspective, is that God sees you

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and He doesn't want to leave you there.

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He wants to see your life made whole, and there is wholeness and happiness and

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joy on on the other side of, you know, really laying down, you know,

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our way of thinking and embracing his way of thinking.

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And it's the best decision you'll ever make. And so, you know,

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we have to keep flipping these narratives.

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We have to keep exposing truth in this and really showing that there is both

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truth and grace, though, in the kingdom of God.

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And that I think the administration wants to, you know, pigeonhole people against

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each other. They want it to look like Christians hate the trans community.

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I don't hate the trans community. I love them so much. I want to see them get saved.

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And that's a different way of thinking about this. And I think that we can't

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settle for anything less than that.

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So when you're talking about the historical Jesus, it made me think like they're

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writing fan fiction about Jesus.

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It's totally what it is. In fact, I'm glad you brought that up.

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There's a few stories I mentioned where they're trying to make sense of the

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miracles in the Bible because this is post-enlightenment.

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Everybody's going, okay, we now know we have the scientific method.

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Shortly after that came Darwin and other thinkers, and they're learning a lot

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about the way the world works and the sciences and everything. things.

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So they're going like, look, you can't multiply loaves and fishes. You can't walk on water.

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And so, you know, they would write these kind of alternative versions of the

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Gospels with no historical evidence, no eyewitness accounts or anything like that to lean to.

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And, you know, the one that was my favorite, they were trying to,

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there was one of the biographers during this time, it was a German theologian,

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was trying to make sense of the multiplication of the loaves and fishes.

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And he proposed that Jesus was most likely part of kind of this obscure,

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you know, know, Asenian group of monks,

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and that they were baking bread inside of a hidden cave and passing it kind

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of discreetly to him as he's loading it in these baskets and passing it around.

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That was more plausible to them that nobody would have noticed that,

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you know, pay no attention to all the Keebler elves inside of the cave,

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you know, they're baking these little, you know, biscuits for Christ,

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that that was more plausible than the actual miraculous account that was taking

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place when there's 5,000 people that are watching him do it, you know?

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And it's just, it's ludicrous to think about the way in which they're really

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deconstructing the faith. But this is what we're talking about.

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This is the original deconstruction.

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You know, what we're seeing today is just a recycled version of that before.

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And, but unfortunately, it's led a lot of people, you know, to,

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to walk away from their faith.

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Dr. Dozier? Talking about the classical liberal theologian, that goes another level here.

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But I just want to go back to the trans visibility thing.

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And we look at this declaration from the president of this country and then

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some other things that we've seen.

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I need to go back to, I believe it's Daniel chapter 7.

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And when we look at that, God has given him this end time picture.

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I know most of the wars, as far as that is concerned, will take place in the Middle East.

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But he brings out that he will look to change both times and laws,

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festivals and all of those particular things, and even looking at God's law.

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But if you look at what's happening today, we can see the Bible tells us the

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spirit of Antichrist now works and we can see it working because what we saw

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was we saw something that was doing exactly that,

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looking to change the things that honor God on the other days and honor God

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and to place something in his stead.

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I would like to get your take on that without saying. Yeah, no,

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I'm glad you brought that up.

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I mean, I think it was Charlie Kirk around Easter did a post on,

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there was over 150 days approximately on the calendar between the US calendar

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and the UN calendar that were representing some sort of recognition of the LGBTQ plus spectrum. Trump.

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And then how many days do we have as Christians? You've got a handful.

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The main ones, obviously, Christmas, Good Friday, Easter.

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And here we have the Biden administration makes the declaration about trans

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visibility on Good Friday.

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And acknowledging this. And the picture that they share that goes viral on this

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is with an Easter bunny in the background, connecting it to the Easter celebration.

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And then they obviously have the day, March 31st, on the holiest day of the year for believers.

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Now, the argument that people are going to make is, well, that was already established.

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It wasn't Biden that set it up as March 31st. Well, next year,

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March 31st in 2025 is a Muslim holy holiday.

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Do you think there's going to be any mention of transmissibility on

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a muslim holy holiday i'm going to say and venture to

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say no they might do it around that time period it

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might you know but it's not going to be honored the same way

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there's a double standard that exists and they are trying to rewrite i think

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everything that has to do with god the current administration has made it very

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clear regardless of what they say but with their actions that they stand opposed

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to god they you know biden seems to be catholic in name only i'm never going

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to judge somebody's salvation i'm going to leave that to the Lord.

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But there is nothing that is being done from this administration that has any

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glimpse of a Judeo-Christian framework.

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And to some people would say, good, that we need separation of church and state.

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Well, I'll tell you what, they're not separating church and state.

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They're introducing a pagan church into the state.

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We have a new state religion and it's paganism.

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And that religion is really defining and everything else.

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So this is not just a neutral neutral government that's not highlighting any

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sort of religious belief. That would be one thing.

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This is a government that is choosing one religion over another.

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It was originally in found in woke ism. And now it has gone to full seed,

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you know, in pagan thought.

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And, and that seems to be the, the dominant, you know, ethos that's being,

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you know, promoted from the current administration.

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Now, Jesus, Jesus did say, I'm sorry, Jesus, you'll know, Jesus did say,

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you'll know a tree by the fruit that it bears. and then he brings out the things

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that will come from the heart.

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And even though it's not for us to question their salvation from what we can

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see, we see these are people who are not doing the work of the Lord.

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And I think for many years in our lifetime, this has hurt the church because people,

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Things like you do and what others are willing to say, enough people are not willing to say.

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And in the name of love, everything goes.

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And so what you're seeing is this attrition.

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It has crept so far into the church.

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If people would look at scriptures such as 2 Peter 2, they could see what is

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transpiring even today.

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So when I look at these things, I see the work of Satan.

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Okay i see the work of satan and i

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will say if it is the work of satan

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then it definitely is not of god and

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then it's that itself solves it all yeah no i i think that there's a doctrine

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of demons that's circulating and there's i mean look this is a this is just

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there's a veil covering people's eyes there's a spirit here of this this is

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not just an ideological war there's certainly a spiritual war that's happening

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here as well i think it's important that we don't discount that that I've,

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in efforts to try to educate people,

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I've leaned in a lot to the philosophy and theology side of this.

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But there is a spiritual thing that's happening here as well.

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I never want to miss that.

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And it has blinded people's eyes. And I think that

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it is time for the church and the people of God to really rise up and present

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the truth of the gospel in such a way that lifts those scales you know off of

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their eyes so they can see the truth and that is that is both it's spiritual

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it's also you know it's also ideological and we have to attack it from both fronts,

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you brought up some great points lucas i mean with with the installation of

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paganism as as a religion.

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And you're correct that's exactly what's happened this

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is what communism does is what tyrannical governments do

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they take god out of the way and replace their religion

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with god you know and they

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take when they do this we have the consequences that we have right now and the

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church does have to stand up we've been screaming you've been screaming from

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the rooftops we have people out there we just have to keep on pressing in with

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the message that god is is a god of love and he's He's also God of justice.

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And there were for our children, the truth, faith and action alliance is calling you to take action.

409
00:26:40,318 --> 00:26:45,298
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410
00:26:45,698 --> 00:26:48,438
Don't miss out on the opportunity to hear from leading speakers,

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00:26:48,498 --> 00:26:52,958
such as Jonathan gone, Rob McCoy, Kevin and Sam Sorbo, Lucas miles,

412
00:26:53,118 --> 00:26:56,098
and many more register now at save our children.

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00:26:56,238 --> 00:27:00,058
Dot ticket leap.com. That's save our children. Dot ticket leap.com.

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00:27:01,275 --> 00:27:07,495
We can win this war for our children by working together. He deserves our honor,

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and they're suppressing the truth is what they're doing.

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Yeah, no, absolutely right. And I think it's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out.

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I mean, obviously, we're hoping for a change here in 2024 that might give us

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a little bit of a reprieve.

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But, you know, the White House itself is not, you know, it's not controlling

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everything that happens in this nation.

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Oftentimes, it's a representation of what's happening in the nation.

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And so we've got a lot of work on grassroots levels in churches and cities across

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this country to really see something different.

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You turn on Instagram Live or TikTok Live.

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And the other day, I saw somebody worshiping these Nordic gods like Thor and others.

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They had all sorts of pagan practices. is. I mean, this is on the uprise.

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It's not just critical theory we're up against. It's not just.

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BLM and DEI and Planned Parenthood. I mean, those are expressions.

429
00:28:01,215 --> 00:28:06,555
But there is an even more sinister, I think, spiritual thing that's driving a lot of this.

430
00:28:06,775 --> 00:28:10,555
And if we don't really cut the head off of that, so to speak,

431
00:28:10,755 --> 00:28:12,195
then this thing is going to keep growing.

432
00:28:12,575 --> 00:28:16,015
And we might get a little reprieve for a few years here in the White House if

433
00:28:16,015 --> 00:28:17,395
this turns out the way we want it to.

434
00:28:17,395 --> 00:28:20,255
But but ultimately that the nation is still

435
00:28:20,255 --> 00:28:23,255
in a lot of danger if the church doesn't you know really take

436
00:28:23,255 --> 00:28:25,935
its true role to be a city on a hill and to be

437
00:28:25,935 --> 00:28:28,895
the conscience of the state but i just hope that the church

438
00:28:28,895 --> 00:28:33,835
is the movement that goes forward and not that we and like you just mentioned

439
00:28:33,835 --> 00:28:40,415
that we may get a reprieve i don't would not like the church to fall back on

440
00:28:40,415 --> 00:28:43,855
that i mean but the church has to do what the church has to do the state is

441
00:28:43,855 --> 00:28:48,715
the state yes there's a lot of people I think to that point that if, if,

442
00:28:48,795 --> 00:28:54,035
you know, let's say conservatives or Trump wins the white house and in 2024,

443
00:28:54,155 --> 00:28:58,075
which I hope he does and that, and it's going to help a lot of things,

444
00:28:58,155 --> 00:29:01,435
but there's going to be people that go, we did it. We're good.

445
00:29:01,955 --> 00:29:06,655
Yep. And they're going to think that, that, you know, that this is all safe

446
00:29:06,655 --> 00:29:09,775
and better and they're going to see some stuff rolled back and they're going

447
00:29:09,775 --> 00:29:10,855
to think the issue is gone.

448
00:29:11,255 --> 00:29:14,815
And all that's going to be is it's going to be four years of the the other side

449
00:29:14,815 --> 00:29:21,275
organizing and getting stronger, the way which I think conservatives have in the last four years.

450
00:29:21,595 --> 00:29:26,395
And they're going to come back with a vengeance. And this is not going away

451
00:29:26,395 --> 00:29:28,475
unless we're able to change hearts and minds.

452
00:29:29,035 --> 00:29:34,855
And we do that through the word of truth. We do it through our testimony. We do it through prayer.

453
00:29:35,095 --> 00:29:38,995
We do it through the operation, the service of the church, the fivefold ministry.

454
00:29:39,175 --> 00:29:42,735
I mean, all of those things are so imperative to see this change.

455
00:29:42,735 --> 00:29:48,615
We really do need that third great awakening in this nation and kind of a return

456
00:29:48,615 --> 00:29:54,695
to this biblical framework, I think, not at a state level, but among the people

457
00:29:54,695 --> 00:29:56,975
that shapes how the state operates.

458
00:29:57,944 --> 00:30:02,824
You know, you look at these conversations and we're all trying to figure out how to have them.

459
00:30:03,124 --> 00:30:07,144
But, you know, one of the things that people say, well, you're misgendering me.

460
00:30:07,544 --> 00:30:11,024
And I go, well, you're misreligioning me.

461
00:30:11,784 --> 00:30:17,224
I can't insult my God and his pronouns just to please you.

462
00:30:17,324 --> 00:30:22,384
Right. So this is what I'm saying. We have to have a way to love people,

463
00:30:22,564 --> 00:30:28,824
but we still have to stand for Christ in these times. So how do you see that

464
00:30:28,824 --> 00:30:30,944
as also something we've got to uphold?

465
00:30:31,724 --> 00:30:35,964
Yeah, it's interesting. You know, you look at, I'm kind of a geek with early church history.

466
00:30:36,224 --> 00:30:39,984
I, you know, first 500 years of the church is like kind of my passion.

467
00:30:40,044 --> 00:30:43,644
I get my hands on and read everything I can from that time period.

468
00:30:43,724 --> 00:30:47,664
And still learning, still reading, you know, there's probably people out there

469
00:30:47,664 --> 00:30:49,904
with much greater expertise than me on this subject.

470
00:30:49,904 --> 00:30:56,384
But in the study that I've done on this, it's interesting because you see ways

471
00:30:56,384 --> 00:31:01,164
in which the church confronted a pagan Rome and won them over.

472
00:31:01,384 --> 00:31:05,724
And they were very successful in it in the long run. And I don't know if there

473
00:31:05,724 --> 00:31:10,504
was ever like a really intentional strategy to do that other than just to reach the world for Christ.

474
00:31:10,744 --> 00:31:15,684
But they ultimately, you know, won over Rome and eventually won over the entire

475
00:31:15,684 --> 00:31:17,464
Western world as a result of that.

476
00:31:17,464 --> 00:31:20,924
And really up until just recently that has

477
00:31:20,924 --> 00:31:24,204
still been the dominant christianity has still been the dominant worldview and

478
00:31:24,204 --> 00:31:26,924
it's built hospitals and schools and and shaped a

479
00:31:26,924 --> 00:31:29,944
lot of our non-profit you know you know institutions and human

480
00:31:29,944 --> 00:31:32,704
services and these things and i think that we have

481
00:31:32,704 --> 00:31:36,484
to kind of almost come back to say like how did we do this initially what did

482
00:31:36,484 --> 00:31:40,384
that look like you know and and because i think that you know if we're not careful

483
00:31:40,384 --> 00:31:43,324
we're going to be in some similar times we're already seeing christians arrested

484
00:31:43,324 --> 00:31:46,584
we're already seeing christians canceled we're already seeing Christians even

485
00:31:46,584 --> 00:31:50,484
in a place like Canada that are taken from the pulpits in the middle of all their preaching.

486
00:31:50,924 --> 00:31:56,884
And I think that that's not too far off from America if we don't really see this turned around.

487
00:31:57,044 --> 00:32:00,844
And so, I think what I'm doing right now is asking myself the question,

488
00:32:01,084 --> 00:32:03,364
how was the early church so successful in this?

489
00:32:03,444 --> 00:32:07,324
How did they navigate with both grace and truth through these falsehoods?

490
00:32:07,324 --> 00:32:10,704
And I think that one of the things they did is they developed what was called an apology.

491
00:32:11,044 --> 00:32:14,464
And that's not an apology like, I'm sorry. That's an apology like a defense

492
00:32:14,464 --> 00:32:18,244
offense, where we get our work for apologetics of the gospel,

493
00:32:18,364 --> 00:32:21,944
because Christianity was being blamed for, it was bad for the economy.

494
00:32:22,164 --> 00:32:27,064
It was cannibalistic because they were eating the body and blood of Christ.

495
00:32:27,704 --> 00:32:32,684
They saw them as being atheists because they didn't worship all the other gods in Rome.

496
00:32:33,104 --> 00:32:35,904
And we have all these accusations against the church right now.

497
00:32:35,984 --> 00:32:38,744
You're bigoted. You're bad for business. You're bad for the economy.

498
00:32:39,124 --> 00:32:42,104
You look back 20 years ago, people used to say about the church,

499
00:32:42,204 --> 00:32:45,424
they would say about Christians, You know, look, you guys are holier than thou.

500
00:32:45,904 --> 00:32:49,844
They're goody two shoes. That was sort of the mindset. It was you have a higher

501
00:32:49,844 --> 00:32:52,924
morality than the rest of us, so we can't really hang with you because you're no fun.

502
00:32:53,597 --> 00:32:57,357
Now, the conversation's changed. Now it is the Christian is the one with the

503
00:32:57,357 --> 00:33:01,077
lesser morality, because we don't love people, we're not inclusive,

504
00:33:01,357 --> 00:33:05,017
we don't have visibility for everybody, all these sort of things.

505
00:33:05,197 --> 00:33:09,397
And now Christians, for the first time really since Rome, are being viewed as

506
00:33:09,397 --> 00:33:13,037
the ones with less morals. And it's not because Christians have changed.

507
00:33:13,377 --> 00:33:16,577
It's because the mindset against the church has shifted.

508
00:33:16,837 --> 00:33:21,857
And we have been painted with this kind of brush. We're the great enemy to the state right now.

509
00:33:21,937 --> 00:33:26,737
We've seen this administration do that several times, weaponize the DOJ against Christians, et cetera.

510
00:33:27,037 --> 00:33:32,157
And now it requires us to do kind of this new apologetic in defense of the gospel

511
00:33:32,157 --> 00:33:36,957
and really once again showing that Christianity is the better thing for society.

512
00:33:37,797 --> 00:33:43,137
So I feel like you've been able to really put your finger on the zeitgeist of

513
00:33:43,137 --> 00:33:44,757
the time, which is wokeism.

514
00:33:44,877 --> 00:33:50,317
And I think a lot of what you're talking about is just the evolution of wokeism, the end result of that.

515
00:33:50,657 --> 00:33:55,237
So I'm just curious, tell us how you see this playing out in the progressive

516
00:33:55,237 --> 00:33:57,237
churches and in Christianity.

517
00:33:58,137 --> 00:34:03,237
Yeah, so I was on a show, I don't know, maybe yesterday or the day before that

518
00:34:03,237 --> 00:34:05,177
they asked me a question a little

519
00:34:05,177 --> 00:34:07,637
bit about the progressive church and if it's on the rise or decline.

520
00:34:08,057 --> 00:34:11,557
And the host was kind of under the impression that the progressive church was,

521
00:34:11,637 --> 00:34:14,637
you know, basically you go woke, you go broke, and these churches are shutting

522
00:34:14,637 --> 00:34:15,737
down and everything else.

523
00:34:15,737 --> 00:34:19,337
And I would say it's interesting because when I look at the progressive church,

524
00:34:19,437 --> 00:34:23,977
I do think that there are a lot of empty progressive churches that have fully

525
00:34:23,977 --> 00:34:29,157
embraced kind of the LGBT Christian sort of hybrid gospel,

526
00:34:29,477 --> 00:34:31,397
which is obviously a false belief.

527
00:34:31,877 --> 00:34:34,957
And these are like mainstream it's the episcopals and

528
00:34:34,957 --> 00:34:37,897
the methodists and the presbyterian churches that

529
00:34:37,897 --> 00:34:40,757
have gone woke and these are the ones that you see downtown and all

530
00:34:40,757 --> 00:34:43,597
the major cities and they're flying the blm flag and they're

531
00:34:43,597 --> 00:34:46,757
flying the marxist rainbow flag and they're flying the trans flag now and everything

532
00:34:46,757 --> 00:34:50,777
else and i don't think people are flocking to these places in the droves i think

533
00:34:50,777 --> 00:34:54,797
they're boring i think that they're they're woke it's kind of that blue-haired

534
00:34:54,797 --> 00:35:00,097
you know you know lgbt kind of you know demographic that's showing up to there

535
00:35:00,097 --> 00:35:01,297
it's It's not a massive thing.

536
00:35:01,817 --> 00:35:07,937
What is changing, though, and growing, I think, is progressive Christianity in the digital sphere.

537
00:35:08,457 --> 00:35:11,577
And so there's a lot of people that they've kind of, you know,

538
00:35:11,577 --> 00:35:14,037
the more you deconstruct your faith, the less you need church.

539
00:35:14,357 --> 00:35:18,517
So we can't just look at this statistic of seeing progressive churches,

540
00:35:18,557 --> 00:35:22,557
kind of, you know, their numbers going down and think that that means that progressive

541
00:35:22,557 --> 00:35:24,097
Christianity is diminishing.

542
00:35:24,257 --> 00:35:28,277
It just means that their faith is becoming less centralized.

543
00:35:28,277 --> 00:35:32,497
Centralized, and you pick up any one of these digital apps, and there are advocate

544
00:35:32,497 --> 00:35:36,257
warriors for progressive Christianity out there promoting their cause,

545
00:35:36,517 --> 00:35:39,217
getting disciples, building these things.

546
00:35:39,357 --> 00:35:43,437
I mean, there's a couple guys on TikTok Live all the time doing this,

547
00:35:43,497 --> 00:35:46,857
and people are buying it, and the younger generation is buying it.

548
00:35:47,297 --> 00:35:50,657
I commented here recently, there was a Paul Rudd.

549
00:35:51,931 --> 00:35:54,631
He was with a couple of his co-stars from the new Ghostbusters movie.

550
00:35:55,211 --> 00:35:56,911
And I don't know a whole lot about Paul.

551
00:35:57,051 --> 00:36:00,751
He's been a very successful actor. He was on Friends, was on Avengers and Marvel

552
00:36:00,751 --> 00:36:03,331
movies, and does the Ghostbusters franchise.

553
00:36:04,031 --> 00:36:07,171
And he's asked the question at this press junket. He's got one of the younger

554
00:36:07,171 --> 00:36:10,571
kids who's on Ghostbusters, who's also on Stranger Things as an actor.

555
00:36:10,931 --> 00:36:14,271
And he's there with him. And they're asked the question, if you could go back

556
00:36:14,271 --> 00:36:16,031
in time and meet anybody in history, who would you meet?

557
00:36:16,371 --> 00:36:19,151
And Paul Rudd goes, easy. I'd go back and meet Jesus. jesus

558
00:36:19,151 --> 00:36:22,131
and and the the kid next

559
00:36:22,131 --> 00:36:25,311
to him starts laughing he goes paul he wasn't

560
00:36:25,311 --> 00:36:28,071
even a real person and paul rudd looks at him

561
00:36:28,071 --> 00:36:31,831
like what planet are you you know here he's this guy paul's probably about my

562
00:36:31,831 --> 00:36:35,731
age look at him going like are you nuts like of course he was a real person

563
00:36:35,731 --> 00:36:38,911
like you know and i think paul actually has jewish roots and everything else

564
00:36:38,911 --> 00:36:42,491
and and he's like look i want to meet the guy and know what is this really like

565
00:36:42,491 --> 00:36:46,271
tell me the truth what's this all about who really you are, you know, and everything else.

566
00:36:46,371 --> 00:36:49,431
And this other kid could, you know, he couldn't even conceive of that.

567
00:36:49,551 --> 00:36:53,451
And there is such this, this kind of, you know, biblical illiteracy,

568
00:36:53,451 --> 00:36:57,891
historical illiteracy that is allowing these false beliefs to really,

569
00:36:57,931 --> 00:37:01,091
you know, permeate this younger generation, young millennials,

570
00:37:01,311 --> 00:37:03,351
Gen Z, you know, Generation Alpha and others.

571
00:37:03,531 --> 00:37:08,011
And so we are up against a lot with this. And I don't think that the decline

572
00:37:08,011 --> 00:37:13,531
of progressive church necessarily means the decline of progressive Christianity in general.

573
00:37:13,631 --> 00:37:18,331
But long term, if you let that keep going, it will eventually dissolve into

574
00:37:18,331 --> 00:37:23,851
just some sort of pagan version that maybe embraces certain aspects of Christianity,

575
00:37:24,211 --> 00:37:27,531
but really doesn't hold any central teaching because the moment you take the

576
00:37:27,531 --> 00:37:30,371
word out of the equation, everything else is going to fall apart.

577
00:37:31,071 --> 00:37:35,471
So I told you, Lucas, I would remind you of a couple of things you said when

578
00:37:35,471 --> 00:37:38,011
you were here that I quote you all the time.

579
00:37:38,131 --> 00:37:41,631
So hopefully you'll remember this story, but it was about- It's always dangerous.

580
00:37:41,931 --> 00:37:44,891
I know it's dangerous. I'm going there, baby.

581
00:37:45,031 --> 00:37:49,671
I don't want to not remember this, but you talked about how you were preaching

582
00:37:49,671 --> 00:37:53,771
a particular sermon series and you preached your congregation.

583
00:37:53,871 --> 00:37:58,231
I think you started out at 50% and then you said maybe only 40% down.

584
00:37:58,351 --> 00:38:00,731
And then you said there was a Gideon moment.

585
00:38:00,931 --> 00:38:05,991
And that's something I want people to hear because so many times we're looking

586
00:38:05,991 --> 00:38:09,151
at, pastors are scared. They really are.

587
00:38:09,311 --> 00:38:13,831
They're really scared and they're scared of losing people and so on and so forth.

588
00:38:13,971 --> 00:38:16,971
So if you could recount that story, I would hear it again.

589
00:38:17,271 --> 00:38:23,151
Yeah. So I survived the tyrannical reign of Mayor Pete Buttigieg in South Bend, Indiana.

590
00:38:23,391 --> 00:38:30,251
And we watched his uprising, his, I think, at least two terms here as mayor, and,

591
00:38:31,110 --> 00:38:37,770
He kept evolving more and more progressive, more and more Marxist ideology, in my opinion.

592
00:38:40,650 --> 00:38:44,490
I didn't realize at the time that we had a lot of people in our church that

593
00:38:44,490 --> 00:38:46,410
they loved the message of grace that we taught.

594
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:53,450
But they were not on the same page with us as far as their belief in Scripture,

595
00:38:53,790 --> 00:38:56,930
their worldview on a lot of other topics.

596
00:38:57,070 --> 00:39:00,870
And so we started seeing this. And look, I've been conservative for a long time.

597
00:39:00,870 --> 00:39:04,790
There was a time early on when my early, early 20s, right before I got married,

598
00:39:04,850 --> 00:39:07,930
where I was actually being tempted by Christian socialism.

599
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:11,790
And I probably listened to too much Beatles music growing up or something that

600
00:39:11,790 --> 00:39:13,310
twisted my mind on some things.

601
00:39:13,450 --> 00:39:16,710
And Rich Mullins, honestly, was a big influence on that too.

602
00:39:16,850 --> 00:39:20,030
Although I don't know if Rich would have ever called himself a Christian socialist.

603
00:39:20,330 --> 00:39:24,410
He had kind of came out of the movement that I was in within the Christian church

604
00:39:24,410 --> 00:39:27,970
and was a very popular Christian artist and was kind of known for giving up

605
00:39:27,970 --> 00:39:31,730
his money to just kind know, kind of live this vow of poverty and everything.

606
00:39:31,930 --> 00:39:35,850
And some of that was appealing to me. And fortunately, I had some people in

607
00:39:35,850 --> 00:39:39,570
my life that kind of got me back on track, you know, with orthodoxy early on.

608
00:39:39,930 --> 00:39:43,390
And I was spared a lot. But as I was, you know, seeing this kind of in some

609
00:39:43,390 --> 00:39:46,890
of my own people recognizing these things, I said, look, we need to do a deep dive on this.

610
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:50,050
We did an eight-week series on basically what does the Bible have to say about?

611
00:39:50,650 --> 00:39:53,570
And then we had a bunch of different topics leading up to this of,

612
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:56,710
you know, and this was was kind of leading up to the 2016 election of,

613
00:39:56,810 --> 00:40:01,810
you know, it was sexuality, marriage, you know, socialism versus capitalism.

614
00:40:02,310 --> 00:40:05,030
What does the Bible have to say about sovereign borders? What is the Bible,

615
00:40:05,090 --> 00:40:06,010
you know, all these things.

616
00:40:06,410 --> 00:40:11,630
And at the end of that series, we dropped probably 40, 50% of our church.

617
00:40:11,970 --> 00:40:14,070
That's also 40, 50% of our revenue.

618
00:40:14,610 --> 00:40:18,170
And look, as a pastor, and you know, we didn't have a huge ministry at that

619
00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:19,330
time, but it was significant.

620
00:40:19,970 --> 00:40:23,430
And it was scary. We didn't know how we were going to pay our bills the next

621
00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:26,310
month. I think there was probably a couple of weeks where I didn't take a check

622
00:40:26,310 --> 00:40:27,830
because things were tight.

623
00:40:28,170 --> 00:40:30,870
And one of those moments where we just went to the Lord, it's like,

624
00:40:30,910 --> 00:40:35,010
Lord, either this is the right thing and it doesn't matter what happens to us.

625
00:40:35,090 --> 00:40:37,530
Even at the risk of personal peril, we need to move forward.

626
00:40:38,110 --> 00:40:41,630
Or you know what? I really screwed up and we just need to go back to the status

627
00:40:41,630 --> 00:40:45,210
quo. And without a doubt, we knew what the right answer was.

628
00:40:45,690 --> 00:40:49,330
Preach the truth regardless of the consequences. And so honestly,

629
00:40:49,510 --> 00:40:51,670
I doubled doubled down. And that's really where the book, The Christian Left,

630
00:40:51,770 --> 00:40:53,170
came out of that journey.

631
00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:57,490
That was sort of the inspiration for it. And was so thankful on the other side

632
00:40:57,490 --> 00:41:00,510
of that, just to you see, I mean, our church is the biggest it's ever been.

633
00:41:00,750 --> 00:41:05,470
We had a record attendance for our Easter service. We're in a 30,000 square foot building.

634
00:41:05,610 --> 00:41:09,230
We're doing national campaigns with our ministry, Sex, Change,

635
00:41:09,250 --> 00:41:12,470
Regret, helping the transgender community find Christ.

636
00:41:12,690 --> 00:41:15,750
We're also working with our work on the American Pastor Project.

637
00:41:16,090 --> 00:41:18,650
We've got 500 plus pastors nationwide and wide that are part of this.

638
00:41:18,750 --> 00:41:21,490
And so there's just some incredible stuff that's happening and taking place

639
00:41:21,490 --> 00:41:24,630
and partners from around the country that are coming alongside to support us.

640
00:41:25,070 --> 00:41:28,830
And man, I look back and I'm so glad that we didn't cave, that we didn't give

641
00:41:28,830 --> 00:41:30,730
in, that we didn't fall apart in that moment.

642
00:41:31,542 --> 00:41:37,022
So of course we did have Walt on just actually this week and he's even more

643
00:41:37,022 --> 00:41:38,282
charming than you, Lucas.

644
00:41:38,422 --> 00:41:41,222
He is good. That guy is just, he's a gym.

645
00:41:41,422 --> 00:41:46,982
He is a gym. I mean, we, there's no way there other way to say it, but he he's hilarious.

646
00:41:47,182 --> 00:41:50,102
He emails me all the time and he has me cracking up.

647
00:41:50,262 --> 00:41:55,902
So, so we were really glad that we were able to get to know him through you. And we appreciate that.

648
00:41:55,962 --> 00:42:01,182
Awesome. And you know, that Gideon moment is we're so focused on the numbers.

649
00:42:01,182 --> 00:42:04,522
And that's what I just, when you said that, I thought to myself,

650
00:42:04,782 --> 00:42:09,142
we're all looking around for the numbers, but Gideon had to send some people

651
00:42:09,142 --> 00:42:11,102
away in order to get that win.

652
00:42:11,302 --> 00:42:14,542
And I think that that's something that I just love that story.

653
00:42:14,722 --> 00:42:17,162
So I'm going to keep quoting you now that I got it right.

654
00:42:17,402 --> 00:42:21,362
No, I appreciate it. And look, it's a good reminder to remember where we came from.

655
00:42:21,482 --> 00:42:23,622
And look, there's other pastors out there that they're going,

656
00:42:23,842 --> 00:42:26,162
man, I don't want to do this. I don't want to talk about these things.

657
00:42:26,202 --> 00:42:28,162
They're scared to talk about this stuff from the pulpit.

658
00:42:28,242 --> 00:42:31,402
And I would say, look, it's worth it. And yeah, you might have a loss.

659
00:42:31,502 --> 00:42:32,582
You might have a setback. And

660
00:42:32,582 --> 00:42:35,942
there's ways to do this that I think you can create more of an on-ramp.

661
00:42:36,022 --> 00:42:39,562
I don't know if our strategy was the perfect wisdom or something at the time,

662
00:42:39,602 --> 00:42:41,342
but it's what happened and it's where we went.

663
00:42:41,522 --> 00:42:45,942
And so, but there are ways to educate your people on these things, to help them on board.

664
00:42:46,222 --> 00:42:51,382
I had a pastor from a major church in the nation call me. He was newly installed

665
00:42:51,382 --> 00:42:53,922
in his role as senior pastor at the time.

666
00:42:54,202 --> 00:42:58,442
And this was shortly after the Christian Left came out. and I won't say what

667
00:42:58,442 --> 00:43:03,362
state he was in because I don't want to do anything to out him. That's his job to do.

668
00:43:03,802 --> 00:43:06,402
But he called me, he said, Lucas, he goes, I just got done reading your book.

669
00:43:06,562 --> 00:43:08,202
He goes, I've got a church where

670
00:43:08,202 --> 00:43:11,362
they had, I think three or four or five different campuses in their area.

671
00:43:11,722 --> 00:43:15,402
And he goes, I didn't know this until I read your book, but I think my whole staff is woke.

672
00:43:16,682 --> 00:43:21,662
And he's there. And so here he is, new senior pastor, just moved across the

673
00:43:21,662 --> 00:43:22,682
country to take this job.

674
00:43:23,082 --> 00:43:26,502
And he's leading a giant woke organization organization.

675
00:43:26,962 --> 00:43:30,262
And you know what? I touch base with him periodically. He's taken a much slower

676
00:43:30,262 --> 00:43:35,002
approach than I would probably recommend, but he's trying to chip away at it.

677
00:43:35,222 --> 00:43:38,942
And I came in, met with his team, met with his elders, these things to work

678
00:43:38,942 --> 00:43:39,942
with them and support them.

679
00:43:40,142 --> 00:43:43,302
But look, there's pastors that have a mess on their hands like that.

680
00:43:43,382 --> 00:43:47,782
And they're trying to figure out how do I fix this without overturning the whole apple cart here?

681
00:43:48,002 --> 00:43:51,422
And I have a lot of... I have grace for them and sympathy for their cause.

682
00:43:51,542 --> 00:43:54,862
But ultimately, the answer is always do do the right thing, preach the truth,

683
00:43:54,922 --> 00:43:59,262
and help people find their way into that. You're going to lose some. It's okay.

684
00:43:59,942 --> 00:44:03,142
Those that you keep, those you retain, and those you attract afterwards because

685
00:44:03,142 --> 00:44:08,742
you took a stand will be that much better than those that you lost through this process.

686
00:44:09,667 --> 00:44:14,307
Absolutely. And that is the message that I wish every pastor could believe in.

687
00:44:14,527 --> 00:44:18,487
And I don't know if I, I mean, I say this sometimes, so if I'm repeating,

688
00:44:18,727 --> 00:44:24,287
but I think the reason I didn't become a pastor was because I thought I would be a very bad employee.

689
00:44:26,307 --> 00:44:30,927
Sure. But at least you have this idea that you're working for the man, right?

690
00:44:31,107 --> 00:44:35,207
Yeah. Yep. Right on. And that's where you sometimes forget that.

691
00:44:35,267 --> 00:44:39,947
And that's why, you know, when you say stuff like this, we know who you're working for, brother.

692
00:44:40,247 --> 00:44:44,887
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. You know, Lucas, I experienced something

693
00:44:44,887 --> 00:44:48,887
similar after Obama's reelection, President Obama's reelection.

694
00:44:49,367 --> 00:44:55,427
And I remember that's when they first went through this thing to say that disallowing

695
00:44:55,427 --> 00:44:57,607
same-sex marriage was unconstitutional.

696
00:44:57,707 --> 00:45:01,247
That's really the way they got it over because most of America wasn't voting

697
00:45:01,247 --> 00:45:05,047
for it. But when this happened, I had to address my congregation.

698
00:45:05,287 --> 00:45:07,707
And it's not a large congregation as well. And I addressed them.

699
00:45:08,147 --> 00:45:12,607
And the thing that I brought out was, whatever God lays out,

700
00:45:12,727 --> 00:45:17,447
it will always supersede what man says, regardless of who that person is.

701
00:45:17,447 --> 00:45:21,527
I lost three generations of a family.

702
00:45:21,687 --> 00:45:25,567
And this was what you would call, you know what this means being a pastor.

703
00:45:25,727 --> 00:45:28,727
This is what you would call a big donor family.

704
00:45:29,227 --> 00:45:38,627
And I can remember, I was thinking in my mind, calculating what stepped out of that door.

705
00:45:39,207 --> 00:45:42,867
And the Lord just pressed in my heart. It was just like this. And it was strong.

706
00:45:43,607 --> 00:45:49,607
Won't you count the money? And I stopped right there. I stopped right there.

707
00:45:50,027 --> 00:45:55,307
And the leader of the family who was the patriarch of the family of the generations said.

708
00:45:56,965 --> 00:46:04,305
His reasoning was not a word, but he said that I spoke, I talked about his president.

709
00:46:05,165 --> 00:46:09,385
And for me, it was, I'm being honest, for me, it didn't hurt me.

710
00:46:09,565 --> 00:46:13,905
I sort of like thought like a warrior because it was like I drew a line in the

711
00:46:13,905 --> 00:46:15,985
sand. It was like the line is being drawn in the sand.

712
00:46:16,225 --> 00:46:22,245
Yeah. And what you're saying is I said something about your president.

713
00:46:22,765 --> 00:46:25,345
Well, that's the president I sit under, but I'm your pastor.

714
00:46:25,885 --> 00:46:30,105
I'm your pastor. You have lunch with me. You do this, you do this, you do that.

715
00:46:30,645 --> 00:46:36,385
And I'm your pastor. And so in that particular sense, I believe that when you

716
00:46:36,385 --> 00:46:39,305
have that, you have to let it go.

717
00:46:39,625 --> 00:46:42,805
Now, here's where I want to go. I just want to share that with you to let you

718
00:46:42,805 --> 00:46:46,305
know that, you know, yeah, I can relate with you on that one.

719
00:46:46,345 --> 00:46:48,905
And I'm sure there were others who may have done it silently,

720
00:46:48,905 --> 00:46:53,125
but are you familiar with the, the, the decade, the decade?

721
00:46:53,745 --> 00:46:59,145
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Number 12. OK, that's for those who don't know that that was

722
00:46:59,145 --> 00:47:00,345
like an early church manual.

723
00:47:00,665 --> 00:47:04,465
Yeah. Based on the teaching of the apostles. Yeah. Based on the teaching of

724
00:47:04,465 --> 00:47:07,745
the also known as the teaching of the 12, the teaching of the apostles. Yes.

725
00:47:08,245 --> 00:47:12,605
But there was there is a section in there where.

726
00:47:14,033 --> 00:47:20,273
It gave them instructions on baptism, once someone had given their life over to Christ.

727
00:47:21,473 --> 00:47:27,653
And what they were bringing out at that time, paganism was so bad until some people,

728
00:47:27,693 --> 00:47:31,133
they would spend a couple of weeks with their family and they would have to

729
00:47:31,133 --> 00:47:39,093
tell their biological family farewell prominently because paganism was just that terrible.

730
00:47:39,093 --> 00:47:42,493
And so that really, when it says come out from among them and be separate,

731
00:47:42,993 --> 00:47:47,973
you can see that there were people who had biological family members who they

732
00:47:47,973 --> 00:47:54,613
actually moved away from because of the perils of paganism.

733
00:47:54,613 --> 00:48:00,273
And what I see today, and I'm not getting ready to go into anybody's family,

734
00:48:00,373 --> 00:48:05,633
even though I do believe at times people allow their biological to bring them down.

735
00:48:06,213 --> 00:48:13,673
What I see today is whereas the church went out and won people and then introduced

736
00:48:13,673 --> 00:48:19,073
people to the body, we have something that Jesus did not say,

737
00:48:19,273 --> 00:48:22,993
but say he said. He said, come unto me.

738
00:48:23,413 --> 00:48:26,353
What they'll say is Jesus said, come as you are.

739
00:48:26,593 --> 00:48:32,393
So what we have is a lot of people coming into the church that have never yet

740
00:48:32,393 --> 00:48:35,733
been evangelized or saved and then introduced to the church.

741
00:48:35,893 --> 00:48:41,833
They end up liking the church because it could be they love the fellowship of

742
00:48:41,833 --> 00:48:44,533
people, the love that they see or things like that.

743
00:48:44,673 --> 00:48:50,453
And there's never really a transformation. You end up with membership instead of one soul. Yeah.

744
00:48:50,793 --> 00:48:56,233
Rescue. And then you end up with this problem that we have in the church today.

745
00:48:56,353 --> 00:48:59,193
And then you end up in a pseudo type of love being taught.

746
00:48:59,293 --> 00:49:04,833
But you see just how that love is when you began to when you began to declare love.

747
00:49:05,832 --> 00:49:08,452
What God has laid out, the will of God, the purposes of God,

748
00:49:08,532 --> 00:49:12,652
the standards of God, the holiness of God, then you begin to see what's really

749
00:49:12,652 --> 00:49:14,112
in the hearts of the people.

750
00:49:14,252 --> 00:49:19,352
So I think that the church has had a lot to do with what we're seeing today.

751
00:49:19,812 --> 00:49:25,252
And that does not fall on the congregation, but that falls on the leaders who,

752
00:49:25,372 --> 00:49:28,992
as it was mentioned, who seem to be somewhat spineless or fearful.

753
00:49:29,712 --> 00:49:32,792
Yeah. And I think that's true in many cases.

754
00:49:32,872 --> 00:49:37,452
I think also you have leaders who, it's not even that they're spineless,

755
00:49:37,492 --> 00:49:41,612
they just have a different worldview because they were discipled in progressive

756
00:49:41,612 --> 00:49:43,292
Christian institutions.

757
00:49:43,832 --> 00:49:47,352
And you think they should be on the same page. And unfortunately,

758
00:49:47,472 --> 00:49:50,852
a lot of our pastors in America that didn't speak out during Obama,

759
00:49:51,212 --> 00:49:55,392
during George Floyd, BLM stuff, during COVID, all these things,

760
00:49:55,472 --> 00:49:58,112
the pastors that were keeping silent through all this stuff,

761
00:49:58,372 --> 00:50:02,052
they actually have a worldview that's It's contrary to scripture.

762
00:50:02,272 --> 00:50:06,512
It's not that they were being silent because they disagreed or because they were afraid.

763
00:50:06,612 --> 00:50:10,572
It was that they were being silent because they were kind of in lockstep with

764
00:50:10,572 --> 00:50:13,852
everything that was happening there. They didn't see it as the church's job to do this.

765
00:50:13,972 --> 00:50:16,912
I think that experience is very common to people.

766
00:50:17,012 --> 00:50:21,592
I appreciate you kind of bringing that up as kind of what you saw and what you

767
00:50:21,592 --> 00:50:23,872
went through with that family. And I think that's true.

768
00:50:24,692 --> 00:50:28,512
And look, I told people, I said, in five years from now, who knows?

769
00:50:28,592 --> 00:50:30,552
Maybe I'll be writing a book called The Christian Rite.

770
00:50:30,712 --> 00:50:34,112
Because we got into some big ditch on the other side. And I'm willing to do

771
00:50:34,112 --> 00:50:34,872
that if that's what it takes.

772
00:50:34,932 --> 00:50:39,452
I know I'll be hated by that side, but look, the Bible is true.

773
00:50:40,158 --> 00:50:48,938
Christianity is the best thing for this world, for society, relationship with Jesus Christ.

774
00:50:49,118 --> 00:50:51,358
There's nothing like it. He is my personal Lord and Savior.

775
00:50:51,558 --> 00:50:55,098
I love Him. I know Him. I walk with Him. And there's nothing better than that.

776
00:50:55,198 --> 00:50:56,358
And so I'm unashamed of that.

777
00:50:56,518 --> 00:51:00,858
I'm going to testify to that. And that is preaching the full counsel of the Word of God.

778
00:51:00,998 --> 00:51:05,098
Unfortunately, we've seen a lot of churches through kind of the megachurch framework

779
00:51:05,098 --> 00:51:09,518
and and probably more so even the seeker sensitive framework is they did a good

780
00:51:09,518 --> 00:51:11,198
job of making quote unquote converts,

781
00:51:11,318 --> 00:51:14,998
but a terrible job of making disciples and, you know, and now we're in the mess

782
00:51:14,998 --> 00:51:17,918
we're in because people were not discipled well enough to be able to discern

783
00:51:17,918 --> 00:51:20,958
falsehood from, from truth and fact from fiction.

784
00:51:21,238 --> 00:51:23,458
And, you know, lo and behold, here we are.

785
00:51:24,738 --> 00:51:30,638
So I was just wondering, so if your church does the sparkle creed, is that probably a no go?

786
00:51:32,318 --> 00:51:37,258
Yeah, maybe, Maybe the Sparkle Creed is not the best thing for a Sunday morning.

787
00:51:37,378 --> 00:51:38,918
Yeah, I would probably avoid that one.

788
00:51:39,158 --> 00:51:43,978
Okay. Did you see the recent interview and a little bit of blurb on Living Waters

789
00:51:43,978 --> 00:51:48,438
with Richard Dawkins recently where he said that he doesn't want to live in

790
00:51:48,438 --> 00:51:53,858
a world or imagine a world without Christianity, even though he might not be a Christian?

791
00:51:55,238 --> 00:51:59,658
Great point. I mean, and that's the thing. Like, look, Christianity is it is

792
00:51:59,658 --> 00:52:03,838
good for society. And so even when you have atheists that are coming out and

793
00:52:03,838 --> 00:52:08,698
saying, no, we need Christians, don't get rid of them, that's reason to take note, for sure.

794
00:52:09,418 --> 00:52:12,798
Praise the Lord. So I know we only have a few minutes for Woke Jesus,

795
00:52:12,938 --> 00:52:18,918
but you came out of the Christian left and tell us why you had to go, okay, Woke Jesus.

796
00:52:19,018 --> 00:52:25,018
Because they really are making Jesus, projecting onto him what it is that they have.

797
00:52:25,863 --> 00:52:28,663
Yeah i think trans who said

798
00:52:28,663 --> 00:52:31,723
again jesus isn't trans jesus isn't trans

799
00:52:31,723 --> 00:52:34,963
jesus wasn't an immigrant contrary to

800
00:52:34,963 --> 00:52:38,383
people's belief well uh you know he went down to egypt he had to cross the border

801
00:52:38,383 --> 00:52:42,803
illegally no that was still rome it might have been the province known as egypt

802
00:52:42,803 --> 00:52:46,763
but it was still rome as a roman you know under roman rule uh they wouldn't

803
00:52:46,763 --> 00:52:50,863
have had citizenship but as under roman rule you know in judea they would have

804
00:52:50,863 --> 00:52:54,463
had the ability to cross freely throughout anywhere in the Roman Empire as they went.

805
00:52:54,663 --> 00:53:00,163
He was not an illegal immigrant. He was not doing illegal border crossing. He wasn't a hippie.

806
00:53:00,503 --> 00:53:02,543
He didn't wear a rainbow sash.

807
00:53:03,283 --> 00:53:07,023
The most disturbing one that I heard, and this is probably a terrible way to

808
00:53:07,023 --> 00:53:11,903
end a podcast, but I'll do it anyways, is... I write about this in Woke Jesus.

809
00:53:11,963 --> 00:53:16,123
There was a student that was doing their doctorate and dissertation at,

810
00:53:16,223 --> 00:53:17,103
I think it was at Cambridge.

811
00:53:17,323 --> 00:53:25,023
They wrote about how that the cross was the pinnacle of basically the trans community.

812
00:53:25,423 --> 00:53:29,543
And that because at that moment, Jesus had his male genitalia,

813
00:53:29,543 --> 00:53:34,843
he also that he was born with, his side was also pierced in his midsection and

814
00:53:34,843 --> 00:53:36,683
that bled as a gaping wound.

815
00:53:36,903 --> 00:53:39,703
And that was like opening up female genitalia in him.

816
00:53:39,863 --> 00:53:42,763
And so at that moment, Jesus was both male and female. I mean,

817
00:53:42,763 --> 00:53:48,303
this is the lunacy and the just idiotic ideas that are being,

818
00:53:48,403 --> 00:53:51,103
this is ridiculous. It's sick, it's twisted.

819
00:53:51,503 --> 00:53:55,443
It is a spiritual deception. It is a false representation of Christ.

820
00:53:55,763 --> 00:54:00,023
And please, if you're listening to this and you're on the fence, like read Woke Jesus.

821
00:54:00,543 --> 00:54:04,223
Like if I got to send you a free book, you know, like contact us.

822
00:54:04,303 --> 00:54:12,123
Like we, I want to see people get this in their hands and break free from this false, you know, idea.

823
00:54:12,223 --> 00:54:15,303
Buy it for your pastor if he's on the fence on this stuff.

824
00:54:15,483 --> 00:54:18,503
And if he's woke, it's time to go find a new church. That's a whole separate

825
00:54:18,503 --> 00:54:22,323
deal. But I appreciate so much you guys having me on and being able to share about these things.

826
00:54:22,964 --> 00:54:26,544
Well, Lucas, I got to tell you a funny story because, Lord, I've got a few of them.

827
00:54:26,684 --> 00:54:31,704
But so, of course, my dad, I gave him your first book. And so he saw your second book.

828
00:54:31,784 --> 00:54:34,784
I don't think he read the first one, but he bought Woke Jesus.

829
00:54:35,144 --> 00:54:37,644
He found it at a Christian bookstore. And he comes, he says,

830
00:54:37,744 --> 00:54:39,224
you got to listen to this.

831
00:54:39,564 --> 00:54:44,124
You got to read this book. I go, dad, he's coming to my conference.

832
00:54:44,484 --> 00:54:48,444
And my dad, I mean, he has this look on his face.

833
00:54:48,744 --> 00:54:53,384
He's like, huh? huh it was

834
00:54:53,384 --> 00:54:56,164
just hilarious because awesome you know here he is

835
00:54:56,164 --> 00:54:59,544
he found your book on his own he's 85 years old

836
00:54:59,544 --> 00:55:02,704
good for him he loves your book so awesome

837
00:55:02,704 --> 00:55:07,444
i hope here's my thing like this is just my thing as an author i fly a lot like

838
00:55:07,444 --> 00:55:10,824
but i haven't had the experience of like ever seen somebody on an airplane reading

839
00:55:10,824 --> 00:55:14,524
my book that's like my dream like if i can when i have that moment i'll be like

840
00:55:14,524 --> 00:55:18,484
hey we we did something here you know so but no i'm glad he got his hands on

841
00:55:18,484 --> 00:55:19,584
and people are finding it.

842
00:55:19,624 --> 00:55:23,404
And it's been really great to see it kind of go around the country and just

843
00:55:23,404 --> 00:55:26,844
be a good resource for people in this time. Good.

844
00:55:27,244 --> 00:55:30,884
So anything we can pray for you before we sign off here today?

845
00:55:31,304 --> 00:55:35,204
Yeah, two big things we're working on is the American Pastor Project and then

846
00:55:35,204 --> 00:55:36,904
Sex Change Regret with Walt Heyer.

847
00:55:37,084 --> 00:55:40,284
We are working on a billboard campaign for Sex Change Regret.

848
00:55:40,304 --> 00:55:44,104
We're trying to put billboards around the country, really targeting communities

849
00:55:44,104 --> 00:55:51,884
communities with a higher ratio or percentage of those who have been impacted by trans ideology.

850
00:55:52,484 --> 00:55:57,884
And really trying to stop this in its tracks, catch people before they make

851
00:55:57,884 --> 00:56:00,644
some of these tragic decisions for their body and their lives.

852
00:56:01,104 --> 00:56:04,884
And so we're doing some pretty innovative things there. And then also with American

853
00:56:04,884 --> 00:56:09,264
Pastor Project, always looking for prayer. We're doing roundtables around the country right now.

854
00:56:09,384 --> 00:56:12,124
We've got one in Denver coming up. We've got one in Ohio. Ohio.

855
00:56:12,364 --> 00:56:16,024
Of course, we're going to be with pastors down at your conference, sharing with them.

856
00:56:16,244 --> 00:56:19,604
We've got a lot of great things that are happening that are on their way.

857
00:56:19,704 --> 00:56:23,264
And so prayers appreciated this. It's not easy work, but it's rewarding and

858
00:56:23,264 --> 00:56:24,204
we know it's the right thing to do.

859
00:56:24,844 --> 00:56:29,784
Well, we're 100% behind you. And just remember, anytime you come to the area,

860
00:56:29,824 --> 00:56:33,964
of course, I told Walt the other day, I said, I could have booked you three or four times, buddy.

861
00:56:35,084 --> 00:56:38,784
That's awesome. There's so many things you guys are doing here that we'd love

862
00:56:38,784 --> 00:56:41,104
to to see this movement come to our area.

863
00:56:41,404 --> 00:56:46,464
And it used to be Tampa was the Bay of the Holy Spirit, and now we have pirates.

864
00:56:47,164 --> 00:56:51,564
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Looking forward to it. You want to pray us out, brother?

865
00:56:52,044 --> 00:56:55,344
Father, we thank you for your grace and mercy. We thank you for your love.

866
00:56:55,404 --> 00:56:58,324
We thank you for your kindness. We thank you, Lord, for your wisdom.

867
00:56:59,109 --> 00:57:01,909
We thank you for the understanding that you've given us. And Lord,

868
00:57:01,969 --> 00:57:06,149
we thank you for gracing us to have your son, Lucas Miles, on with us today.

869
00:57:06,269 --> 00:57:10,149
We thank you for the insight and understanding that you've given him.

870
00:57:10,249 --> 00:57:13,629
We thank you for the doors that you have opened for him. We thank you,

871
00:57:13,649 --> 00:57:17,429
Lord God, for the bravery that you have given him by way of your Holy Spirit.

872
00:57:17,789 --> 00:57:21,069
And as he moves on with the work that he's doing at this time and season,

873
00:57:21,249 --> 00:57:25,049
both he and Walt Heyer, I pray, God, that you will be a hedge of protection

874
00:57:25,049 --> 00:57:29,609
around him. I pray, Lord, that you will cause it to be success and successful.

875
00:57:29,869 --> 00:57:33,049
And I pray that that people will not only hear, Lord,

876
00:57:33,169 --> 00:57:36,829
but that the word, the things that they're bringing will be engrafted in their

877
00:57:36,829 --> 00:57:38,909
hearts and that you will draw them into your kingdom,

878
00:57:38,989 --> 00:57:45,069
that you will grant deliverance from the strongholds of transsexuality and whatever

879
00:57:45,069 --> 00:57:49,989
delusion that has come over them and that you will get glory out of all that is done.

880
00:57:50,169 --> 00:57:54,029
We do give you honor, glory and praise on this day. In Jesus name. Amen.

881
00:57:54,529 --> 00:57:59,529
Amen. Awesome. So thanks so much, Lucas. And if you could stay for just a couple seconds.

882
00:57:59,989 --> 00:58:03,829
Sure. But God bless you. And we're praying for you.

883
00:58:03,889 --> 00:58:07,869
And one day we've got to find out more about the, what would you call that?

884
00:58:07,869 --> 00:58:09,629
The pastors, America's Pastor Project?

885
00:58:09,669 --> 00:58:12,649
Yeah, American Pastor Project. Yeah, it's AmericanPastorProject.org.

886
00:58:13,069 --> 00:58:15,409
Okay, great. And how can we get ahold of you normally?

887
00:58:16,409 --> 00:58:21,589
Yeah, so people can go to AmericanPastorProject.org. They can go to LucasMiles.org

888
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:23,929
as well, or Influence Network.

889
00:58:24,149 --> 00:58:28,829
Remember, no I in the front. It just starts with an N. InfluenceNetwork.com is kind of our main page.

890
00:58:29,369 --> 00:58:32,089
Great. Thanks so much, Lucas, for coming. We appreciate you.

891
00:58:32,249 --> 00:58:34,649
Thank you. you. Hey folks, this is Dr.

892
00:58:34,809 --> 00:58:41,109
Kevin Cruz giving you another pump because guess what? The Supernatural Junkies are on Rumble.

893
00:58:41,269 --> 00:58:46,629
All you have to do is go to Rumble, go to search, and when you search for channels,

894
00:58:46,829 --> 00:58:51,909
you look for Supernatural Junkies and all of our stuff is going to start popping up.

895
00:58:52,009 --> 00:58:54,369
It's great because you're going to be able to see the links.

896
00:58:54,489 --> 00:58:58,969
You'll get to see exactly why we are saying what we're saying, but most importantly,

897
00:58:59,109 --> 00:59:04,649
this is a great way to share with your family and your friends exactly why we

898
00:59:04,649 --> 00:59:10,469
are living in prophetic times and why we cannot give up access to our bodies.

899
00:59:11,329 --> 00:59:15,869
Hey folks, it's Dr. Dennis from Supernatural Junkies. I just want to talk to

900
00:59:15,869 --> 00:59:17,149
you today about protandum.

901
00:59:17,609 --> 00:59:21,129
I've been taking protandum for a few years and you know what?

902
00:59:21,369 --> 00:59:25,729
I feel a difference. I am younger than my age. At least I think I am.

903
00:59:26,149 --> 00:59:32,769
Anyway, protandum is a strong antioxidant producer in your body because what

904
00:59:32,769 --> 00:59:37,749
it does, it causes your body to increase its glutathione production.

905
00:59:38,169 --> 00:59:42,129
And glutathione, folks, is the strongest antioxidant your body has.

906
00:59:42,369 --> 00:59:47,149
So if you want to keep strong antioxidants in your body and be a healthier you,

907
00:59:47,329 --> 00:59:49,769
I suggest you use ProTandem.

908
00:59:51,329 --> 00:59:51,969
So

909
00:59:52,400 --> 01:01:12,057
Music.