67. War & Israel

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In this episode of What the Prophets Say, join us as we discuss wars, Israel and the

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sin of taking sides. Yes, you heard it. We're going there in this episode of What the Prophets

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Say.

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Hello loyal listeners and welcome once again to another rip-roaring episode of What the

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Prophets Say with me, Emma Stark and my sidekick.

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Sam Robertson.

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How are you Sam?

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Yes, I'm great.

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We've just actually been looking at Sam's wedding list because it's not very long to

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the big day. We do record this ahead of time. I don't know when you will hear this. You

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might be married by the time people hear this. We might seem very out of time, but we're

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looking at the fact that you nearly have a complete crockery set and the importance of

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that. Some people deliberately like mismatched.

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Oh no, that confuses me.

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What?

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It not confuses me, it bothers me.

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It bothers your sense of order.

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I like matching things.

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Do you know what? I don't like drinking from mugs that have a chip in them.

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Yeah, I know I'm the same or a slight crack.

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Well I was told, you see, I don't know whether this is a lie and it's a shame this isn't

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lies because you, from such intelligent audiences, somebody would know that actually you get

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incredibly dangerous germs in any chip or crack on any piece of crockery. And then of

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course if your lips touch it to drink your coffee, you could get a deadly disease. Do

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you think I've been lied to? That seems very, when I say I lied, like a very teenager-y

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hyped up conversation I must've had, but I've thought it for years.

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Maybe you weren't lied to, but maybe in your prophetic drama type sense of self you've

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made it into, maybe it was like you could potentially get a mark on your lip and it's

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become a deadly disease. As happens mostly with prophets and stories.

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Things are very intense. You know with prophets it's either black or white. There's no sage

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of gray or perhaps or moderation about it. It's because we have to steward the voice

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of God and he is holy. Prophets are made to be a little bit extreme.

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Yes. Yes. Either all amazing or all absolutely disastrous.

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This is true. I was preaching in England at Shire this weekend and I'm running around,

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literally running around because you know the way I like to preach by, I don't like

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to stand on a platform. I like to be down walking in between the people. People are

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utterly terrified of that because there's no sense of like that preacher is one step

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removed and I find myself in somebody's face, like literally inches from their face saying,

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what would you think if God told you to be Hosea and marry a prostitute? And the person

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had no idea what the polite response was. Yes, I'll be obedient to the voice of God

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or no, no, no, that's horrific. Then I thought maybe I was too personally in their space.

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Anyway, yes, but in the moment when you're stewarding revelation and you're getting excited

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about it or you're getting inspired, you don't really know what's going on. And then you

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do look back and you think, wow, I was bold. I do think I would like to do a step count

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of a set if they weren't so ugly. Yeah. Or calorie burners to wear one of those during

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ministry because literally I feel like I run circles around rooms when I preach. I couldn't

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see you wearing a fit, but no, they're not very beautiful. Someone needs to invent a

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beautiful looking step counter. One that looks like jewelry and then you would wear it. Yes.

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But I don't like digital clocks. I find them irritating. Yeah. No, I get that. I do get

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that. Yes. I prefer a proper wristwatch. You do like a wristwatch. I do. So we say something

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wildly more interesting and spiritual. Do you run around? You're not as running around

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day depends where I am. What's the most running you've ever done while preaching? I would

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say I run, but I move. I have literally done a full lap round to congregation to make a

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spiritual point in high heels and been out of breath and looked and had my makeup fall

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off my face with sweat. I've never had that issue. You'll be glad to know. Okay. Let's

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talk about war. Let's talk about war. The season of war and the season of war. Okay.

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My friends now hold onto your hats, seatbelt yourself in. We are going to try to create

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some biblical thoughts here. Uh, categories of three things. What is the difference between

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spiritual warfare? Number one, spiritual warfare. Number two, ugly manmade warfare where it's

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all about man's instincts, man's violence, man's dreadfulness versus category number

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three, when God permits or allows war on the earth. And when we come into a war season,

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we can't just go, there's going to be wars and rumors of war. We need to know, okay,

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that's what Jesus says in the latter chapters of Matthew's gospel. Well, what are the possibilities

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and how do we think around the differences between when God permits something or instigate

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something, when man instigate something, manmade warfare or the spiritual warfare, which we

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should all be doing anyway. So we've got our three categories. Are we ready? Do you want

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to kick us off? Which, which category do you want to start with Sam Robertson? Well, I

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think as well, the reason we're having this conversation is we're acknowledging that we've

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actually been in peace time for quite a long period of time in the earth. And yes, there

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have been pockets of disaster or wars or whatever, but on the whole, especially in the Western

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world, peace time has been our portion and we have learned how to think, how to interact,

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how to behave, how to steward things like finances and relationships and peace time.

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And actually we are not in those days anymore and it requires my goodness, the most monumental

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of mindset shifts and our listeners, I bet you, you know, we've, we're all there. How

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on earth am I meant to think right now? Actually, how am I meant to think? How am I meant to

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pray? And so to go that way, we want to understand the three different types or categories of

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war that there is, that we can understand, I guess, what wars are right in terms of what

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level as they're one that is right. And how do we partake or what is our responsibility?

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The first being man war initiated by man. Let's go there first manmade man initiated

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man, God's nowhere near it. And Satan's fairly close to it because it's a man ordained man

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and anything that's manmade a man constructed and has no breath of God on it is going to

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have Satan close by. So let's look at that and let's go straight back to scripture.

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When war is first seen in the heavens or the earth, it is in Revelation 12. And this is

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before before we are on planet earth and it says this, Revelation 12 verse 7, then war

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broke out in heaven. And so this is God is in the heavenly realms. He's got his archangels

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in place and war broke out in heaven and Michael, the good angel, the warfaring angel, the archangel

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Michael and his angels. I'm reading to you now from Revelation 12 fought against the

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dragon and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he, we're talking about Lucifer

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and I, Satan was not strong enough and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon

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was hurled down that ancient snake called the devil or Satan who leads the whole world

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astray. He was hurled to the earth and his angels with him. So I've just read to you

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Revelation 12 verse 7 to 9. And so we understand that the first war we ever see comes from

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the heart of Satan. And so when God is not involved and when God is not in the picture,

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we have to say that war manmade and inspired by Satan here is about ego, about getting

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your way. It's often about genocide and a certain sort of victory that you will go for

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at any costs. There's nothing redemptive in it. There's nothing of the consequences of

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sin in it. It is ugly, ugly manmade. Satan speaking in the background. It is about pain,

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domination and my rights, my ego is about this ugly sense of going beyond anything that

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would be reasonable into destruction. We can list the categories of Satan who leads man

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in this way and you can start to see the ugliness of war on the earth that is manmade and Satan

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breathed that starts to be about death numbers, about destroying people groups. And this sense

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of I must have victory at any cost. There is nothing of negotiation, diplomacy. There's

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nothing of a conversation about peace of reconciliation of seeing value in another. There is only

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this sense of we will protect ourselves to a level that is about me destroying somebody

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else.

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It's about not just a victory, but a conquering of another people, person, group, nation or

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boundary to place. I think as well and manmade wars are very often about amassing great power

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and God is severe against those who seek to amass great power. Time and time again in

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scripture he judges people who seek to amass power and wealth for themselves. And so anything

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that is about an invasion to amass power or to acquire power or to acquire something just

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to prop up self is a war that starts in the camp of Satan and Satan is power hungry and

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he is always seeking for himself more power because he knows his power is diminishing.

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More land, more wealth, more people, more agreement, whatever it might be. That's empire

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really isn't it? Which is empire, the ugliness of empire. And I think that empire spirit

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we see manifesting in war and though it may not be as strident as some of the empires

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we have know about in our history, there is an empire type mindset that as we must conquer,

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invade, own, amass, grow our possessions, our wealth, our power.

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And I think war is complex and I don't want to make it too simplistic, but we understand

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that in how we even after the second world war divided up some of the land and the territory

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actually created the subjugation of people, we landlocked some countries and the sense

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then that you get wars of retaliation to things that are years old because it came from places

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where we did not think about blessing or the value of another people group or another tribe

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on the earth, how they are valuable before God, that we became suspicious, racist, over-protectionist

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in our approach. And so sometimes it looks like wars spring up from nowhere, but actually

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we have long understood that man is not kind, man is not often about blessing one another,

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man is left at his own devices, wrapped in original sin that takes man without God into

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this leadership place where Satan is dominant and you then circle back round to retribution,

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retaliation and vengeance and nothing of the kingdom of God, which is why you get often

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within war the worst of man whispered to by Satan, which is very, very bloodthirsty. And

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I would always look at wars and look at the genocidal tendencies where they want to annihilate,

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we look a lot at the anti-Semitic tendencies in war, but that's not the only anti-people

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group that we see. We have a lot of war in the Balkans, in Somalia at the moment, where

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the genocide is very much their vengeful, man-made, bloodthirsty war. And in that war,

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how do we pray? Because I think when we look at man-made war and then spiritual warfare

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and then things that God is allowing to happen, we almost always must know what is the response

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in prayer. And for me, when you see the ugliness of the man-made vengeance and death and the

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justification of death of the innocence, you have always for me looking at Luke chapter

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1 verse 17. And Luke chapter 1 verse 17, I'm just turning to it in my Bible here in front

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of me, is the portion where a heart has gone astray and you are asking the heart to turn

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and man-made warfare is a heart gone wrong, a heart of vengeance and retribution. And

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so you are then praying, I have it here in front of me, Luke 1 verse 17, and he will

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go on before the Lord in the spirit and the power of Elijah, here's the key bit, to turn

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the hearts, to turn the hearts of the parents, the children, and here it is, to turn the

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hearts of the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous to make a people prepared for

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the Lord. And so here we are praying, God, when hearts are bloodthirsty, when hearts

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want vengeance and genocide and have no tempering and no limits to what they do, we pray for

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the heart to turn from disobedience to the way the kingdom of God does things to the

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wisdom of righteousness.

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Now we understand that when war happens, the first thing that is the place the enemy seeks

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is the heart. And for our listeners, you'll have heard us some episodes ago talk about

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the Matthew 24 scriptures and where it talks about the rumors of war, but how there is

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this offense that turns to betrayal, that turns to hatred, that turns to false prophets.

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And that is tucked into the scripture where Jesus says there's going to be wars and rumors

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of wars. And so the heart, I think in wartime, and here's key for your own self as well,

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I think in wartime, your heart is more critical and more exposed than in other peace times.

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And so for you personally, for me personally, you've got to be good at measuring and checking

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your heart because in wartime, it is more vulnerable than in peace time. But you also

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then have to start in your prayers with addressing the hearts of those involved in war. And so

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don't just go straight to their actions, go to their hearts. May there be a seed that

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gets planted in their hearts that enables them to turn to Christ and turn to each other.

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May there be a seed of reconciliation, of love, of compassion, planted in their hearts.

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That is a prayer for you. If you're wanting top tips on how to pray, take that, write

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it down, pray for their hearts, plant in their hearts, seeds of reconciliation and compassion.

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I think then when we look at the spiritual warfare portion, it could not be more opposite

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to what we have just discussed in every single way. So now we're in Ephesians and we're in

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Ephesians and let's turn to it together in Ephesians chapter six. And it talks about

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our wrestle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers and

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spiritual wickedness. Do you have it there in front of you? You guys will know this very

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well. So we're in Ephesians six, we're in the last chapter of Ephesians now and we're

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in verse 12 for our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against rulers. We would

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say principalities and powers depending on your translation, but against the rulers,

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against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual

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forces of evil where in the heavenly realms, very powerful verse in Ephesians six verse

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12. In other words, what this verse is saying is get your eyes off everything that is manmade.

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Now we've just described manmade warfare, but this is saying get your eyes off everything

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that is manmade and spiritual warfare begins in the heavenly realms. Now let me be very

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clear by what that means. We are not therefore looking at manmade boundaries of nations,

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the modern nation state, political groups, political parties, national boundaries, anything

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that is a manmade structure. You do not look at as your first point in spiritual warfare.

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You are in the heavenly realms. Spiritual warfare is a wrestle for the kingdom of God

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against the kingdom of darkness. And that is at this point in scripture not linked into

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man. It is linked into principalities and powers. And we are very loose with this scripture

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and we too easily assign a principality or a demon to an earthly side. But the start

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of spiritual warfare is that you look at the heavenly realms. In other words, spiritual

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warfare, you go up high in the heavenlies and you say, what is the demon at work here?

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Is it a demon of conflict or bloodthirstiness or hatred or anger or a sense of mauling or

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a murder and you start to deal with the principalities and the powers in strategic spiritual warfare?

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And you are therefore releasing, if you're not happy or trained in that sort of spiritual

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warfare, you then release the substance of the kingdom of God, the atmosphere of the

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kingdom of God, which is righteousness, peace and joy. And at that point, you are out of

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political ideology. You are out of, I must protect this nation at any cost. And you are

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into the protection of people of humanity by binding the demons that lead men into hatred

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and releasing the ability for righteousness, peace and joy.

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Absolutely. You cannot win a spiritual war with worldly weapons or worldly tactics. And

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that is echoed again in two Corinthians where Paul says our weapons are not carnal, that

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they are empowered with divine power to demolish strongholds. They are divine weapons, spiritual

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weapons. So you go into the spirit, there you go. You have your, your, what is the demon?

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And you're asking God, what is the spiritual weapon? Which if you don't know and you don't

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have an answer, you're releasing the atmosphere of the kingdom of God. But there may be other

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spiritual weapons as well that God says. And I want you to feel really empowered because

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I think there is this sense of, I don't know, I've had a lot of people say to me recently,

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I am reflecting the sentiment that they're not qualified to pray or to prophesy or to

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know what to do in a season and the earth like today. Like I don't, I don't feel like

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I can pray during war. What am I meant to say? What am I meant to do when we're in war

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times and that actually God is saying, look, no, you can go into the spirit realm. You

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can see the demon, but you can also see your weapons, which are spiritual. And I want you

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to be doing this as your homework. What is the demon and what is, what are my weapons

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in the spirit realm to help take this demon out? And Paul says here, you know, and he's

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fighting against, well, he's being resisted by false apostles. There's a whole anti-Paul

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move that's going on within that area. I mean, he's trying, he's being forced out essentially.

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And he's saying, look, I don't, I don't fight them as they're fighting me. I'm not resisting

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them as they're resisting me. I'm fighting a spirit with spiritual weapons and he's going

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into the spirit realm to gain a decisive victory by the power of God. And so you are, and no

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matter how well versed you are in prayer and warfare, you are more than able to go into

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the spirit realm, see the enemy, see your weapons and apply them.

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And so then you do expect that to that spiritual warfare to have a practical impact and to

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be manifest on the earth because we begin by warring in the spirit and then we see a

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practical application of it. The kingdom of God manifests on the earth in these, in days

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of manmade ugly warfare where, where men have gone beyond anything that, that, that God

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would back.

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And so let me talk to you about Northern Ireland because that's where I grew up and I talked

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about this on par hour before. Um, but it's worth saying that it came to the point where

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we had buried so many dead. And although I grew up in, um, what would have been seen

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as a traditionally unionist community and we would have very much seen the enemy as

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the IRA and the Irish Republicans, it come, it came to the point where you understand

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that violence perpetuates violence. And I think even though we were on a side by culture

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and church attendance and upbringing, we understood as a family that I'm on a side, but I don't

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think God is on either side. And that's a shocking realization that I'm on a side and

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God is not. Absolutely. That is shocking. And I want to protect and I want to defend

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and that is okay up to a point, but ultimately there was a sense that arose within particularly

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my father that the way we were going to do this was not to shoot every member of the

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IRA or to destroy every Catholic who ever walked the face of the shores of Ireland,

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that that was not going to be, that would be genocide. And that if God was not on the

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side of the Protestants and God was not on the side of the Catholics and that it was

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not a God just war that, you know, once you'd resolved all of that, that we were just in

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ugly man war, we only had one option and that was this, turn the other cheek. Wow, wow,

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wow. Come on. And therefore you're standing at graves with all of the pain of an open

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grave and you're burying the dead and you are still hearing bombs go off and you are

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still watching and there's no ceasefire. There was no ceasefire, but we decided and my dad

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would have led the charge on this. Do not retaliate this death. Do not seek manmade

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justice. God will do this over time and that the greatest form of justice that we can bring

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to a community is peace for our children. And the greatest thing we can do is have,

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have murder and war as a memory, not a current reality. And somebody has to be brave enough

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to say, I don't want vengeance for this situation. Yeah. And maybe that's why God says vengeance

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is main because he knows that in our fallenness and in our humanity, man will always have

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a propensity to apply vengeance in the wrong way or to have ego motivations or whatever

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equal equal I for an I motivation and the in vengeance and in the outworking of it.

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I mean for, for what you said there, you people saying God's not on a side. Well, that's what

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he says in, in, in Joshua chapter five, just before the fall of Jericho, which is a war.

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But he says, look, you know, he turns up, there's this Christophany, a theophany and

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appearance of God and flesh, not an incarnation, but an appearance of God as an encounter to

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Joshua and Joshua's first question is whose side are you on? Are you for us or for our

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enemies? And God says, neither, none. Don't apply me to a side. Don't put me who is uncreated

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and apply me to a side of something that is created. And God, God is above that. I think

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it's not so much even as well that we see we don't take sides or we're not on a side.

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I think that the reality is because we're humans, we will always have a motivation for

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a side. We will, we do. We all, but we have to recognize that and then come up and above,

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come up and above it and see it as God sees it. Ask God the intelligent questions rather

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than just expecting that God is going to reinforce your own side taking.

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I think that we understood in those days the need to protect ourselves. That was understood

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and particularly to, to understand that our family was a target back then and the IRA

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were sending my father death threats and we did have police protection as a family unit

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back in those days. There was no doubt about that. So we, we weren't rash with the understanding

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of protection. We chose a certain approach to what we defined as defending ourselves.

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We did job to protect ourselves from future harm. But defending ourselves in terms of

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wanting vengeance and an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, we did not do that. We

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put safeguards in place to minimize harm, but we went forward to say the only way this

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stops is if I'm the first to stop it. And that is what the Bible would say, turn the

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other cheek. And I don't know that we understand that unless we're quite highly skilled negotiators

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that we never said, oh, the IRA must disarm or the IRA must change their objectives. Nobody

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demanded that because that is stripping a people of some of their identity. But you

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can't expect that to happen overnight, but you can go on a kingdom journey or you say,

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I start by turning the other cheek. And the first thing is we're going to make peace.

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United are the peacemakers because God is not on a side. I would go as far as to say

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that in the Ukraine, Russia war, I would say the same thing as I would say about Northern

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Ireland and Catholics and brothers. I'm not so sure God is on any side. I think we assign

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God a side and a political backing or a country in error and that God is saying, come on guys,

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what I want is mature spiritual warfare that understand people have value and that you

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are praying that the hearts would turn to find me in man's sin and blood thirstiness

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would be my personal take on that.

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Absolutely. And the call to contend for peace and war for it as a restoration and an outworking

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of what happens in hearts. And I think this look, this deeply exposes our tendencies as

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humanity. And I think when you see war, I mean, it's just vicious to see and it's terrifying

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to see if we're honest reading about it, you almost can become accidentally numb when there's

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so many news notifications all of the time that it's easy to either become disengaged

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or really, really rattled. And I think that is why we need one another to haul each other

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into what is God saying? What is God doing? And what is my duty and my responsibility

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here? I think as well, when you are seeing weapons and of great destruction and you're

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seeing world weapons, worldly weapons, you have to be even more intentional to remind

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yourself always that my weapons are spiritual and spiritual weapons. Aren't just the prayers.

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I think spiritual weapons are a conversation that is subversive to the narrative that is

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going on and conversation that changes the story line or puts a different story in the

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atmosphere. And we've got to be really careful, I think on social media, we've got to be careful

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in our commenting. We've got to be careful in our posting that we are not accidentally

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backing a world weapon, but we are going into the spirit first.

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So it was saying, Sam, that you and I are slightly down a road that might be called

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pacifism. I would say no, we are not. And this is why, and this is the third category

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when God allows war. And this is perhaps the most challenging of the three areas to talk

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about the man, the man made more of genocide and bloodthirsty and the desire for victory

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above everything is easy to define. Spiritual warfare is actually fairly straightforward

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to define. We just happen to not like it because we like victory more than we like people and

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reconciliation. And that's the pain here. We like victory above everything else. Let's

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talk about when God allies and Thomas Aquinas, the great, um, I don't know theologian of

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hundreds of years ago coined the phrase a just war. Now I don't like that phrase. Um,

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my husband and my father would not like that phrase. We don't believe there is any such

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thing as a just war. Thomas Aquinas was wrestling a concept there to try to put onto scripture

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a kind of a catchall that sometimes God is one who allows war to happen and allows consequences

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to to outwork. So if I was to define that, I wouldn't use the phrase just where I don't

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like that concept because it makes murder and death seem like it's permitted and it's

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somehow righteous. I don't actually think you can really justify that in scripture at

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any point that war is somehow righteous. Um, so this concept of jihad, I would say it lead

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to the Islamic community, the concept of a righteous war. I don't think that's a Christian

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concept. What you do see in scripture is this. You see the holiness of God, which I don't

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think we talk about enough fiery, purie, pure purity and holiness. And that when man rejects

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Jesus as like the ultimate sin or man rejects the ways of God, um, or man, um, loves unrighteousness

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and wickedness, God allows consequences to come. And most often we see that God allows

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unrighteous nations to punish or bring consequences to almost equally unrighteous nations. So

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I don't think you can ever say there's a righteous nation because the concept of a righteous

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nation is very hard to cite biblically because a nation doesn't give its soul to Christ.

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So only an individual does that. So you're looking at nations all with unrighteous tendencies

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being permitted by God to cause consequences to be felt in other unrighteous nations in

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the hope, I think in the mind of God that they turn and cry out for mercy and their

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need is rediscovered of a savior and of the place of God and who he is. And I do think

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that is majority of Lee, if not exclusively how you see war utilized in scripture as the

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place where God says this is unrighteous and so I will allow some consequences where Christ

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and the principles and values and the ways of Christ have been continually rejected.

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And God says no, I need to judge and now I permit, I allow, I left my hand of protection

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that there might be a finding of Jesus and a finding of the ways of Jesus.

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Yes, yes. And so therefore I would want to push it. God may or may not have favorite

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nations, that's a slightly different broadcast. It doesn't actually matter whether you perceive

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your nation or that nation or a nation or another nation is covenanted to God. That

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doesn't protect you from consequences. It doesn't matter how well worded your constitution

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is and how brilliant in the inception of your nation there was a devotion to God. If that

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nation whether you like the concept of nations covenanted or whether you like what was put

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into your constitution as godly in orientation, if you have utterly rejected the person of

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Jesus Christ, if you have loved wickedness, I don't actually think your history has a

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get-out-of-jail card for free associated with it. And that takes us into 2 Kings 21 and

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this is God talking about his own people and I'm going to read to you 2 Kings 21 verse

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14. I will forsake, this is God speaking, I will forsake the remnant of my inheritance

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and give them into the hands of enemies. They will be looted and plundered by all their

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enemies verse 15. They have done evil in my eyes and have aroused my anger from the day

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their ancestors came out of Egypt until this day. And so this sense of God saying, look,

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you may well be my people, you may well be people that in the past have delighted my

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heart but I ally even what looks like quite harsh consequences because we have no real

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understanding of what the holiness God actually feels and looks like and the standard it needs

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for us to live by the standard of holiness. And so when an empire gets too big for its

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boots, when sin is great within a nation, God says, now here comes your consequences.

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And I think you don't call that just war, you call that God permitted war where God

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says, I'm going to ally some things, I'm going to even ally you to be provoked, I'm

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going to ally you to overreact and I'm going to ally consequences to come to you. Why?

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Because you have rejected Jesus. And I think then we say, not God is on a side. I don't

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think we ever say God is on a side, whether it's God allied, whether it's a manmade,

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we just, that's not, you know, something that we like here. But I think we understand that

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God says, I will ally you to be wounded and to be deeply, deeply in pain because I would

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rather you find my son as your savior.

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Yeah, we can't think that covenant means that we can bypass the consequence of sin, whether

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that is both personally or for a people group or a nation state, sin always has consequences.

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And so how do you pray? Well, we know that if sin is exposed and there is a consequence

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of it, what matters is a repentance and a return to Christ. What matters is a recognition

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that Jesus is Lord. And so your decree is a memory we said, you know, for the manmade

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war, you know, the hearts turned to one another. I think in this space, your decree as may

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they find Jesus, may they find Jesus, their hearts turned to Jesus. It's a harvest prayer.

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It's a harvest prayer. And I don't know if I could say harvest. If harvest comes, if

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people find Jesus, then they expedite the process. You know, the war is shortened, whatever

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it might be. But I do think that the condition or the degree, the level of the war can, can

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in some way be helped by those who turn to Jesus and find Jesus and the recognition of

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Jesus because ultimately harvest is what matters. And you've got to start to pray for souls.

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You've got to start to pray for salvation. You've got to start to pray for hearts. That

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is your duty right now. It is not to pray for armies or militaries or anything like

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that and amassing great power. I mean, those who are involved in war, you pray for their

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hearts, but it's people and hearts, people and hearts always that they find each other

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and that they find Jesus. Can we just mention Israel? And now you do need to listen very

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carefully to how I choose my words here. I think most of the, the spirit filled born

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again church would say that they were pro Israel and, and we are to here. We love Israel.

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We are pro Israel. Does that mean that God has shut his eyes to anything that she ever

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does? No, it doesn't. And that actually my pro Israel, my love of Israel, I would prefer

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to put it like that. My love and my passion for Israel means that I can get on board with

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God shaking her out of love to find a savior. I can get on board with some things not going

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her way if they find their savior and that if those people who live in Israel are stubborn

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and hard hearted and consistently reject Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, you can expect

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them to be shaken. You can expect some things to happen on their soil that is not great,

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but that applies to every single nation in the world. And that place of, I want to pray

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not just that, Oh, you win and somebody else's genocide. No, no, no, no, no. I want to pray

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for every nation in the world that they come to find their savior. So I do think that we

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are entering the days where we will see some unfortunate things happen to Israel that God

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is saying, look, this is consequence territory. It's consequence that you still won't find

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Jesus as Messiah. And that is true all the way through scripture that God is probably

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most determined in his pursuit of Israel over every other nation because he loves Israel.

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He loves every nation, but he loves Israel. It has a place in his heart because his son

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is a Jewish son. But this place then within the Jewish people where he says sometimes

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and mainly through scripture, I deal with you very firmly because you will not acknowledge

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the standard of holiness that is required. You won't turn from your sins. You won't

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go after Jesus. And so I think we have to say in those situations when God allows bad

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things to happen or when God allows consequences and that becomes in the form of war that we

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are not ever to be fighting, saying I'm on this side and God's on this side. And so when

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it was on this side, no, no, no, no, we're saying God, we're on the side of harvest

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and we're on the side of hearts that turn and we're on the side of whatever you need

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to do to turn a nation around to find you. And we are not football hooligans who chant

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the name of a side. And like immature children, we say God, we get behind what you are doing

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as King. We are only ever, only ever on the side of the kingdom of God that works its

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way out sometimes in the most painful way so that Jesus is hailed as King and acknowledged

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and submitted to. And that is very difficult. Did we just, did we just go there? So I just

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think we need to become a little bit more biblical literate.

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And you need to have, like we all have opinions and emotions about this matter. You've got

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to choose your space that you have the conversation and, and you know, our listeners, we'll have

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triggered some of you will have provoked some of you. Some of you will be going, I don't

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agree. Others of you will be going, yes, I do. Look, may this provoke in you good conversations.

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And I would say, let, if you've been triggered, if you've been provoked, if you're thinking,

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I don't know how I feel about this, that is fine. That is how good choices are made. If

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you come into the space of healthy dialogue and this don't form your opinions by yourself.

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I mean, these opinions that we have formed and these beliefs that we have formed have

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been over weeks and months of private wrestling and phone calls and conversations and changing

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our opinion and changing our views time and time again. And the same can be for you. And,

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but I would say, don't feel unqualified to pray. I would say, if you are unsure what

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to pray, don't pray your opinion, but pray hearts, find each other, find Jesus. There's

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your decree. I think God is not a God of destruction. He's not a God of death. He's not a God of

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chaos. And he's not a God of genocide. And wherever we see bloodthirstiness, I do think

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we are beholden to, to go into the spirit realm and to say in the name of Jesus, that

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spirit is not allowed to operate. And, and usually in war, that's on both sides of the

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agenda. Wow. So I want to bless you guys as you listen to this to become those who stretch

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into spiritual warfare expertise. You must go on that journey and you must be those who

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know what it is to see what's going on in the spirit before you do anything else. And

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you are always blessed when you are making peace and you are always blessed when you

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leave vengeance to God and your form of justice is a peace contention so that children do

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not grow up in the ravages of genocide. So interesting days in how we think and we pray.

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We're finding ourselves too shallow, aren't we? And we're finding ourselves too partisan

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and we're finding ourselves not backing the kingdom of God and backing nation states rather

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than the kingdom of God. So I bless you to mull this over and go on a journey. Thank

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you for listening to us. We will see you again for another episode very soon of What The

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Prophets Say. Bye.

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Thank you for listening to this episode of What The Prophets Say with me, Emma Stark.

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If you would like to go deeper with us, you would be very welcome to join our network,

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the Global Prophetic Alliance. You can find that at propheticscots.com where we have a

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comprehensive training program to lead you into deeper realms of the Spirit of God and

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encounter. If you feel a call in the Pool to Deliverance ministry, you can download my

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latest e-course which is a comprehensive overview of getting people free from demonic oppression.

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You'll find that at demonbusting.com. Join us on these different platforms for more interaction

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with Emma Stark, Sam Robertson and the GPA team.