69. Rulership VS Leadership

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In this episode of What the Prophets Say with me, Emma Stark, and once again joined by Mr. Sam,

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Prophet Robertson, and we are talking about your urgent need to get a rulership governing

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mental and thinking so that you're not just leading, but you are governing. Join us for

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another intense episode of What the Prophets Say. Well, good afternoon, good morning, good

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evening, depending what time zone you are picking this up in. Welcome, loyal listeners to another

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episode of What the Prophets Say. We are once again in our Glasgow studios just north of the

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city centre so that you can geographically cite us. We rent a studio space while we work on

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building our own just above the M8 motorway, the motorway that goes between Glasgow and Edinburgh,

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and I've got my production team in the studios. You don't often, well, you never hear their voices.

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That is Todd Weller, who leads that team for us, an amazing man of God, and his psychic look,

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high look through the glass, look as waving, and they are our production crew usually with us the

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whole time who do audio and video and lick us into shape and say, are you ready to broadcast and

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start wittering about the cheese, your favourite cheese? Hi, are you Sam? Yeah, I'm great. That was

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an introduction. We'll need to do a behind the scenes and show you all the behind the scenes

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team at some point for what the prophets say. Maybe you'll get that exclusive on the app.

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We'll do an exclusive on the app of a behind the scenes. We'll get them to sit here and tell

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you what it's like having to listen to the two of us speak all day because they listen to us

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when we're recording, but also when we're not. I'm fully expecting them to sound like us. Yes,

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absolutely. And just going to talk to look through the glass. Look, are you developing a Northern

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Irish accent? Yes, he's nodding and saying definitely. Particularly the word par, I hope

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you've totally amended that. You've developed that. Taken the W out of it, par. There we go.

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Place it with an A. But anyway, I'm glad you're joining us as we sit here. I actually have,

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was it the last episode we were talking about how on earth do you choose or maybe it's the time

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before that? How do you choose a coffee shop that's not dodgy and full of nonsense? So like,

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you don't want to be drinking out of mermaid siren spirits. I personally can't deal with

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Nero's coffee shop. David really likes Nero's. Oh, it's the best coffee. Is it Scotland only? We

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maybe had this chat before or is it a whole week? I think it's UK, but it's good coffee. It's better

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than all the other chains. Just think of, but is it not spelled a different way? No, the emperor

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Nero. Is it not N-E-R-O? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, hi, I'll switch to spelled Nero. So with an I, I don't know.

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I'm having a brain moment. I don't know. Sorry. I'm having a moment. Niro. I don't know. I don't know

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how I got there in my head. Yeah. Please edit that out. How did you sleep last night? I

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slept really well. Deeply. Clearly not. Maybe not as not enough sleep. So I've actually got a

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Costa coffee cup. This is product placement in my hand with Chai T Latte, which is my favourite in

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it. I always think Costa. Costa a lot. Costa a lot. Anyway, moving on. So we have got lots to talk

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about today. Actually, we're recording a number of these back to back. And let me introduce a concept

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to you, my lovely friends, as we stretch you and lead you as best as we can into biblical thinking

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and biblical truth. There is a curious verse in Genesis one that talks about dominion,

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subduing and having dominion. It's probably worth us reading. I have a new living translation in

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front of me. I know a lot of you use the American standard version, but that is not the one we tend

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to use here. I don't know anybody in the British asked me to read that version, but yes. So we're

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in verse 28 in Genesis one. You will know it well. God bless them and said to them,

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be fruitful and increase in number, fill the earth and subdu it. Subdu. That's quite a weighty word.

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Other translations talk about having dominion. Rule, it says. Oh goodness, that was a bit of a

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voice crack there. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the air and over every living

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creature that moves on the ground. And so although that's quite difficult, we don't often know how

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to deal with the word dominion. That's not the word I want to pull out today. I want to pull out the

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word rule. And so there is a positional authority that is given there. Let me say that again,

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a positional authority that you are a significantly graced, anointed. If I use the word superior,

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spirit being, let's put it in those, I'm quite happy with those words to rule and to have dominion

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to subdue and to fill. Now that has a sense of reproduction abided of increasing the kingdom of

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God, of winning souls is within the fruitful and rule of making things that are bad be blessed.

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In here is the implication of the God who turns things around and that you work with him and that

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you as his hands and his feet are able to see turn around. You're able to see fruit. You're able to

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see turn around. That's ministering to some of you right up from the get go because you're not

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seeing fruit and you're not seeing turn around. And yet this is the mandate at the instruction

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at the beginning of the Bible. God said, this is who you are. So you're supposed to one who says,

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this situation turns around in the name of Jesus. I decree it because this is the role I have.

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I decree turn around and it puts responsibility on our shoulders to do that. I do think that we

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need to sit in the word rule however, which is so much more elevated and above subdue and fill,

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although they're punchy words, this anointing of rulership on the earth. Sam.

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Yeah, I think this is a massive learn that we need to do. I actually don't think it's in our minds.

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It's not in our mindsets. We don't have the mindset of rulership and part that is because we have

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probably witnessed or been on the receiving end of corrupt rulership at times. But we now stand

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at a point where we need to regain the call to rule, the call to create turn around, to decree

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turn around and to lead. And I think ruling leading, but the word rule, it's actually quite a potent

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word. It's quite like, oh, do I like it? Do I not rule? How do I feel about that? And our listeners,

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I'm sure you'll be going, how do I feel about that? It's the same with the word dominion.

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Also, some people love it, but some people really don't, you know, like it at all. But the concept

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there is that you are meant to have a level of authority that you put to practice, that you

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outwork where you call the shots in the spirit realm and you determine the atmosphere you live

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under and you determine the outcome of situations, not just by self effort, but by decree and by

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authority. So I want to push a couple of other scriptures into this conversation. I do think

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that we have understood spiritual leadership and we are batting around that. In these days,

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particularly, what does leadership look like? How does it feel? How does it sound? What should it

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do? What are its strengths and its weaknesses so that we have brilliantly gifted leaders? And I

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think we're going to come to that in our next episode. So hold on to your hats for that. But I

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do think that we have had spiritual leadership, but we have not yet had spiritual rulership.

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And so when we're in the fullness of the Ecclesiast scripture or Ecclesia in Matthew 16, where Jesus

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says, I will build my Ecclesia or Ecclesia, I will build my churches, how the translations render it,

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that word meaning my rulership, my legislative governing senate. So Christ is saying in

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Caesarea Philippi, I will build my rulership team, my ruling people. Now that is not about

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ugly empire and top down force, but it is a mindset that's different from leadership. It's a

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mindset, I think, that I would define leadership. You have people following you and you are

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taking people where they cannot go themselves. That is the purpose, my personal, preferred

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definition of leadership. You take a people to where they cannot get themselves and to who they

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cannot become without you. And that has a strong servant element to it. It has a strong corporate

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dynamic because you're trying to corral people into a togetherness because you know that when we

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are together, one puts a thousand to flight, two puts 10,000 to flight. So leaders are pulling

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people into place to go where they cannot go by themselves. That's my definition of leadership.

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Do you want to sit in that definition of leadership? Taking a people where they cannot go themselves.

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Yeah, that's a really powerful definition. And I think that has to wash the leader and those

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listening who call to leadership. You have to get that in your mind because that means you have to

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journey some things extensively so that you are able to then get others into that place themselves.

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That actually you're only able to get there. You're only able to take them there because you went

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ahead and you did that for yourself. And I do think that is why leaders are put through the ringer

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in many seasons. Double testing. We'll talk about that more in future episodes because actually

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you have to get to a place that you then haul a people into and that means you have to journey

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through some difficult seasons, testing seasons, difficult decisions where you have to choose,

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choose, choose, choose, choose again so that you're then able to pull people into whatever it may be.

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So that's the definition of leadership. I'm able to take a people where they cannot get themselves.

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Rulership, this kingly place where we're now we're in Ephesians and we're in Ephesians 2

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1 where it talks about us seated with Christ in heavenly places. This concept of this co-ruling

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co-ayers, co-inheritors seated in on-thrones ruling with Christ. Those sorts of concepts

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are pulling in together and that's not just leading that's ruling and that I would say you

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define slightly differently and that is about command. And it's not a command necessarily of

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people although sometimes there is that element to it but it is a command of responsibility into

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atmospheres. In other words when you are in rulership or governing you are going to a place

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where you fight battles on behalf of the people so they don't have to fight them.

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And there is this sense that I'm going in a rulership mindset to make sure the future is

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safe and secure that I am going ahead to govern and to rule over principalities and powers and

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it's not any I don't want us to mistake that with dictatorship or anything ugly like that

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but rulership has this place in the midst of enemies to subdue enemies. I come not just to

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lead, I come not just to keep a people in time, I come not just to take the people where they

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cannot go by themselves but I come to go into the future as a ruler as one who has a more strategic

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foresight. I come to govern the future of the people, I lead in the present but I govern for

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the future and I actually believe that leadership has a present tense about it but rulership and

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government has a future tense above about it. So for me that's my personal definitions of it

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that if I'm thinking about ruling over the efficiency, the burdens and the air that I am

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making sure there's longevity and legacy and protection and I'm taking medium to long term

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decisions and I'm governing for the security of a people's future. Now that puts you immediately

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as a high ranking spiritual warfare specialist by anointing and call. Now I said we wanted

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some scriptures, Ephesians one is obviously there but where I would go to predominantly

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is Psalm 110 and it has, it's a real favorite verse of us at the moment where it says that the

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last phrase in Psalm 110 verse two is rule where in the midst of your enemies and this is,

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we've talked about this before Sam, the Psalm 110 is the most quoted scripture in the New Testament,

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I think it's alluded to about 27 different times, it's picked up it's a a a a a a Psalm of great

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strength, it talks about the superiority of the Messiah, it's re-quoted in Matthew 22,

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it talks about the power of the ascended Jesus, that's Peter preaching at Pentecost, it's

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first Corinthians, Wurlun dominions, superiority of Jesus over the angels in Hebrews one,

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again it's actually in Ephesians one that we talked about Jesus Christ at the right hand of God,

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it's really talking about a par position of Jesus, this elevated par position of Jesus

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who governs and rules where positionally in the place of opposition and enemies. So this is this

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anointing that says look I think we're missing it, I think we're trying to be good leaders

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which is very in the moment of corralling and come with me, at the most a good leader has a three to

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five year vision and that's a good thing for a leader to have but this spiritual governing that

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says I'm securing the legacy for me of prophets way beyond my death, I have to govern some things

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in the spirit, I have to rule in the midst of the enemies, I have to rule over nature or over

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opposition like Genesis one would say and I think you have to lay hands on yourself and say God

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I thank you that you've given me for impact and influence and that you've given me

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to extend the borders of your kingdom and I acknowledge my leadership call but now I want

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to acknowledge that you've given me rulership and governance right the way through your word

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from Genesis one here into Sam 110 and then into Ephesians one where we're seated with Christ in

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heavenly places and Matthew 16 and that I cannot shirk away from taking responsibility to govern

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over principalities and powers and to govern for the security of the people in my care in their

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future. And leadership therefore is much more about people whereas government and rulership is

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about principalities and powers and the spirit realm and the future and I think in leadership

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if you just have that mindset you are rightly responsive or reactive to where the people are

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at that's how you lead because you need to be aware of where the people are at but when you are

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then add on to that that rulership mindset there is a revelation element to it about the future

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and actually you are much more you're then required to be I think more brave in your decision

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makings because you know your decision isn't just about the people now but about their future

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themselves and the people in the future and there's an introductory verse I think it's Sam 112

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where the introduction to it says let this prophetic word be written or released that a

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generation not yet born may praise the Lord let there be something that comes forth now a word

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that comes forth now that secures worship in a generation that actually doesn't exist at the

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moment and I think that is rulership where there is this space of decision making there's this space

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of warfare I guess rulership has such a warfare element to it where you are going in the spirit

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realm to open up some things for generations that actually aren't yet even formed or born right now

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that's very good Sam and I think you then are pushed into this to consider other scriptures

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particularly I've turned to judges chapter five I have to say this is a personal favorite this is

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the story of Deborah and by verse two this is the song of Deborah when the princes in Israel

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take the lead um fascinating concept when the princes in Israel now that is talking about this

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marriage of those who are anointed to govern and rule because they're princes when the princes in

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Israel take the lead so it's this fusing together of governance rulership and leadership at the same

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time it then says this the people willingly offer themselves so this sense of when there's credibility

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of leadership and there's credibility of the securing of the future in rulership and governance

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the people actually don't rebel against that they willingly opt in and we've come to this weird place

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where we're so anti-leadership or anti-experts or you know anti the science or anti this that and

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the other like we actually know better and we do not know better at all there because God lets

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his leaders into some things because they have a need to know to secure the future and this sense

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of the fact that when people see good governance good leadership good rulership they offer themselves

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and you get a volunteer spirit and could it be that we have the remnant incomplete and utter

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disarray not because you know oh they're not holy enough or somebody there's something liberal going

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on in the ideology no i actually think it is because leaders are reticent and hesitant to say

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I understand yes i need to be holy i understand that i need to lead you and take you where you

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cannot go yourself but i also understand that i have responsibility for your children and your

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children's children and the governance and the release and the liberation of all that you are

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down your generational line for people you and i will never know who are not yet born who we will

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never meet till we are in glory but i have such a government mindset a rulership mindset on me

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that i am talking about the legacy stuff and the freedom and the liberation portion that i want

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to see your family opt into the fullness of the all you can be and i am governing to release a

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movement of the army of god in the earth no wonder with governance and leadership and the

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securing of the future you get people willingly offer themselves i mean it's right there in the

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sam is sam 110 anyway rule in the midst of your enemies and what's the verse that follows that

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your troops will be willing on your day of battle arrayed in holy spread splendor your young people

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will come to you there is this opting in and i think look let's talk practically i talked to

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so many leaders particularly of our prophetic nests and prophetic communities and often they

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say to me you know people just aren't volunteering and they make it a the people's issue they're

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not volunteering they're not volunteering they're not volunteering and time and time again it comes

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back to because you're not fully wearing the cloak of leadership and of ruling and if you stand

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and rule and lead people will opt in and people will volunteer the lack of volunteering in the

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world just now i mean i have i have not known a culture and a generation so resistant to

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volunteering and to giving of themselves and which is so intrinsic to our faith and to our belief

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in jesus we give of ourselves and it is we can easily point the finger and wag the finger and

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say oh you're this you're that but actually we've got to say is there a leadership spirit is there

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are there those who are ruling that actually releases when you rule the ability to opt into

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the people i think what rulership understands which is different from leadership rulership

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understand the amount of people you need to increase the kingdom of god because that rulership

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understands the increase of the territory leadership doesn't always get that so rulership

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understands the bindries need to increase and the kingdom of god needs to increase and so i

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understand that i've got to push the bindries and that takes everybody that takes everybody

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active engaged released equipped so i think you're right you can't really read sam 1110

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rule in the midst of your enemies and the people opt in and it actually says verse three i will

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work your in your um read you've got that one open i've got judges five your your your troops will

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be welling on your day of battle yeah and um judges five so that sam 110 and judges five saying the

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same thing when the princes in israel take the lead when the people willingly offer themselves

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so in other words god works in people's hearts to follow you gladly and not begrudgingly when

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when you're leading no not always but when you are governing and ruling and securing the borders

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i'm pushing the borders of the kingdom of god forward so in other words there's a joy that is

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assured and a new ability to opt in with ease and a provocation of the saints to arise and to

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get into place when government and rulership is present on the leaders and that is massive and

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you go through the the deborah song i'm still in judges five here uh village villagers in israel

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would not fight or other translations say uh village life had ceased in israel were in verse

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seven they held back until i deborah arose until i arose a mother in israel and then it goes on god

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choose new leaders when war came to the city gates so um and then it talks about the princes so the

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whole conversation is about this arising and deborah is flicking between in deborah song the

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language of leadership and rulership of princes and war leaders and she's interchanging in her song

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this concept that mixes not just the people who um are led but a people who expand the borders which

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is about government growth multiplication of leaders a release of a new generation of leaders

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a new legacy of leaders because she arose and ruled i do think that there are different

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anointings that struggle with this yeah i do think that if you're a shepherd or a teacher by

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orientation and you are low risk by inclination risk averse and you're about lifelong nurturing

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or you're about lifelong teaching there is a sense of can i lead you safely and can i lead you

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without the sense of pushing any boundaries so what i think you get within the shepherding

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teaching community is small churches there's nothing wrong with that but you do get a cap on

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growth you get smallness because there's maybe leadership into safety and nurture but there's

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not rulership into expanding the borders and governance and yet jesus builds what i will

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build my ecstasy and my governance so i do think i would like you to go and think this through a

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little bit more gud could you give me not just a credible leadership anointing but i would like

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to understand rulership and governance and securing the future and risk taking and increasing your

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kingdom and pushing the borders and securing these people for the generations not just molly

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coddling in the moment so that there's lifelong nurture but i'm looking beyond into the generations

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of those who will rule and reign and i do think that has got to be a hands on your head and

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contention in prayer god could you anoint me and lead me into a governance and rulership

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capability so that we tear down the enemy and increase the borders of the kingdom

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um what a prayer and we need that now i don't think we've we've seen that level

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of rulership and governance yet no i think we've seen small mindedness yeah i do think when we

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get some larger churches and of course i run with david something that's kind of medium size now i

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suppose and we're beyond the small in terms of reach and remit and listeners and i do think

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that there's a definite step up between i'm going to lead a people to how can i secure something

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for there's a very definite it's a different thought process very different thought process

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there's no doubt about it i do think they're very gifted larger mega church leaders my

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instinct around that is they are good gatherers but they are not good senders and government and

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and rulership is more in the sending because it's pushing borders of the kingdom of of god

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of the renay and isiah of the increase of his government peace will be no end so my concern

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with um economies of scale is that's fine up to a point but it's problematic if you don't

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rule and govern for the sake of the borders of the kingdom of god and i think people gather

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and become dictators yeah which is not helpful yeah rather than gather then send yeah and

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yeah come into rulership yeah and i hope that we've made the distinction between rulership and

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dictatorship very clear there absolutely yeah rulership is not about domination and subjugation

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and limiting it's actually a very releasing role it's a very releasing form of leadership yeah good

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well sam do you want to release a prayer over them as we come to the end of this

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half hour yeah i think you just need to lay hands on your head right now this is by the spirit it's

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the renewing of your mind the washing of your mind and i pray for you right now and release to you

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that your mind would be rewired with the rulership governance capabilities of the kingdom of god

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and that sam 110 would be hardwired into your system and this season rule in the midst of your

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enemies for then your troops will be willing on the day of battle may there be a ruling that releases

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people that causes people to volunteer and that secures the future for generations that aren't

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even formed or born yet bless you into that in jesus name amen amen well thank you for joining us

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for this episode of what the prophets say we will see you or you will hear us yeah very soon

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much love to you all bye thank you for listening to this episode of what the prophets say with me

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emma stark if you would like to go deeper with us you would be very welcome to join our network

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the global prophetic alliance you can find that at prophetic scots dot com where we have a comprehensive

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training program to lead you into deeper realms of the spirit of god and in kinder if you feel a call

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in the pool to deliverance ministry you can download my latest e-course which is a comprehensive

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overview of getting people free from demonic oppression you'll find that at demon busting

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dot com join us on these different platforms for more interaction with emma stark sam robertson

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and the gpa team