Dennis and Barbara Rainey: Relating to Your Adult Children, episode 158

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If you love a prodigal, you can discover help and hope for your wilderness journey right here

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at the When You Love a Prodigal podcast, and also help and hope for your own life journey.

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I hope last week's episode really opened your eyes to how your prodigal is, has been,

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and will be a gift from God to you. And today we have some very special guests, my friends

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Dennis and Barbara Rainey. Dennis and Barbara have deep experience with parenting children.

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They have six children. Are they all now married? Yes. Yes. And 27 grandchildren. I can't even

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comprehend that. It's a big number. It's a huge number. Dennis and Barbara co-founded

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Crews Family Life Ministry and led it for 43 years. Now they're kind of freelancing around doing

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a lot of things. They have written many books on all aspects of marriage and family, speak around

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the world, and minister to so many. I first had my exposure to family life when it was first starting,

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and Steve and I had just gotten married and we were attending a family life little conference

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for some staff. And I was sick as I could be for some reason. Anyway, so welcome Dennis and Barbara.

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I'm so glad to have you here. Well, we're delighted to be here with you too. Delighted to be here and

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we along with you miss Steve. Oh yeah. One week from today is two years since Steve wrapped.

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Isn't it really? Wow. So this week I'm posting a bunch of things by him or about him and I miss

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him every single day. I'm sure you do. All the time. And I'm missing him even more right now.

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So I was reading Barbara, your blog recently, and saw a post that you did on seven ways to relate

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to your children, your adult children. And so I thought more and more I'm experiencing through

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my podcast and my book and the Facebook page that we have, I'm seeing that there's still plenty of

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problems with your teenagers and young adults off to college or new jobs or something. But more and

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more I'm hearing from parents saying we're really separated from our adult children. They've turned

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their backs on us. They've turned their backs on their faith. And in some cases we never even

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have connection with them anymore. They're just heartbroken, which I'm sure you understand. And so

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it seemed to me that if we can give them some help on relating to their kids, that will

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make it harder for that to happen so that they are learning better how God is working through them,

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but also in them. I mean that we will learn that. That if we can handle things better than maybe we

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might naturally, perhaps there will be less of that happening. That they'll be able to hold on

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to those relationships and not feel rejected. Because I know off the top of my head about five

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families that they're experiencing that right now. And I know there are many more, but those are good

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friends of mine. And it's sad. So I'm going to say first to my listeners what I always say to you.

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Pay attention to what speaks to you when God whispers in your ear some things and write it

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down. Because every time I think I'll remember that, I don't. And so if God gives you an insight

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from what Dennis and Barbara share, write it down so that you can really seek to apply it and let

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God work on it. So first, I just want to, before I ask them specific questions, I want to spend

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some time on those seven things that you mentioned. And phrases that I loved as I was listening and

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reading all the things, because I've listened to your podcast too. Here are some phrases I'll

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throw out to remind you of your seven things. First, you said ask God for wisdom. If you're

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going to raise children, and especially as they get older actually, ask God for wisdom.

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And I loved you said act like an adult yourself. And because sometimes we don't. Remember grace and

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love and mercy. Admit when you're wrong. Become smaller. That one I hope you really can. So I'm

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just going to kind of give it to you and let you start talking and I'll jump in occasionally. So

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what are those seven? Well, the first one I'd mention is we're reminded of in Psalm 127 verse

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4, it compares children to like arrows in the hand of a warrior. So are the children of one's

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youth. And I think what God's trying to get across to us using the metaphor of archery and a target

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is that our children were given to us to raise them to let go. And to raise them to be independently

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dependent upon Jesus Christ. You're not trying to create dependence back upon you as a parent

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and lengthen your heartstrings. But stay in relationship with them. But you got to let

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them grow up and make some of the same mistakes that we made when we were growing up. And I think

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as Barbara and I have looked at that, this is hard to, you know, it's hard to let go.

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It is hard to let go. Tears come for sure.

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Well, I can't, I just was going to say before we get too far from what you said in your opening,

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you talked about how so many kids are going their own way and they're turning their back on their

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parents. And as you were reading, not reading, but you were reciting those characteristics of adult

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children who don't want a relationship with their parents, I was listening and I thought,

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my gosh, that sounds exactly like what we do with God. We turn our back on Him. We want to go our

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own way. We don't want a relationship with Him unless it's convenient and it meets my needs.

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And we see, I think we see in our adult kids a picture of how we relate to God. And I think

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God feels just as much loss and grief and sadness over the way we treat Him as we do over our

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adult children when they do that. And so, I have found that one of the most important lessons

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for us as parents when our kids don't respond the way we want and they don't,

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they're not interested in what we're interested in, is to just remember this is a picture of

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how we treat God and He wants us to say, oh, Father, forgive me. And I think it's a season

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where God wants us to continue to grow and to humble ourselves before Him and not expect

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our kids to be a certain way and to act a certain way and to let them be who they are.

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And we're just not very good at that. So, for me, that's one of the biggest lessons of

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of our adult children is having to let go and having to trust God that He is big enough to

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take care of my kids without my help and without my interference or without my advice. They don't

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need my advice. They can figure it out and maybe they'll run to Christ on their own. So,

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I just think that's really important for parents who are in our season to remember that this is a

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picture of our relationship with God and to not forget that.

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And He has lessons for us, obviously, in these relationships that He's trying to teach us.

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That's Barbara's point there. And I think it's interesting that this second thing we have here,

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the second lesson we're learning, is before looking forward, look backward and honor your parents.

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The first commandment of the Ten Commandments that has a promise with it is the fifth commandment.

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It says, honor your mother and your father that it may go well with you in the land that I'll give

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you. And I think for the most part, Judy, and I know you agree with us on this, we have a generation

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that has arisen that bashes parents and blames parents and doesn't honor them, but blames them

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and doesn't honor them, doesn't take honor home. They take blame and guilt and shame.

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And certainly, we as parents make mistakes. Yeah, and we deserve a lot of it. We make mistakes,

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really? Yes, I think we do. Yeah, too many. But one thing here that Barbara ought to share,

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it took her 20 years before she took honor home to her parents in the form of writing a tribute to

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her mom and dad. And she gave this to them one Christmas. Yeah, Dennis wrote a book called The

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Tribute Years Ago. I remember it. Yeah. And I actually wrote one to my parents as a result.

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There you go. Good for you. Good for you. It was worth it, wasn't it? Yes, it was. Yeah. And when

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he wrote the book and started talking about it, I thought, well, that's a really nice idea. But I

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don't think I need to do that. So that was kind of my position for a long time. And it wasn't so

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much that, well, anyway, it's just that I really, the bottom line is, I really didn't want to because

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it didn't sound like it was an easy thing to do. But anyway, he kept pestering me and saying,

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you've got to do this. Dennis, you pestered her. Yes, he can do that. And he kept doing that. And

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so finally, I thought, okay, okay, I'll do it. And so I remember taking my kids to Mother's Day out

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and leaving them, my two youngest ones, and going and sitting at a park bench or a picnic table in

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a park and with a piece of paper and thinking, well, what am I going to say? I mean, what am

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I supposed to do with this? And I'd stared at blank paper two or three weeks or maybe more during

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those Mother's Day out and didn't get anything done. But finally, I started thinking, okay,

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just start thinking about what your parents did right. And I mean, my story is a great illustration

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of what I think our kids feel today. I was looking at all the things they had done wrong.

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They didn't raise me in the faith the way that I should have been. And they didn't, you know,

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express love like I would have liked and on and on. I had all these, I didn't ever have them listed

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on paper, but they were sure in my head and in my heart. And I had reasons that I felt like they had

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made mistakes. And so they probably had. And of course they had, of course they had. They

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were a different generation. And they didn't know how to express love. And that wasn't a value of

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that culture, that World War II culture. And so I was holding them to the standard that I felt like

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they should have lived up to when that wasn't something that they knew how to do anyway.

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So the process of writing the tribute was really good for me because I realized there were things

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that they did do right. But by focusing on the things that they did wrong, it obscured the things

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that they did right. So as I began to focus on what they did right, it put it all in proper

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perspective and more in balance. And it just was really a transformational process for me,

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because as I wrote on paper the things that they did right, and I thanked them for the things they

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did right, it really liberated me from the bondage that I had put myself in and expecting them to be

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something that they weren't. And so it was a great experience. I'm really glad I did it.

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They loved it. And it changed our relationship. And it really set me free. And I think there are

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too many of us in our generation who are still in bondage in many ways to expecting perfection from

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our parents. And your parents may already be gone and likely are gone. But we still are

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commanded to honor them. And I think if we want our children to honor us, then we need to honor

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our parents and model that. And I don't think there's enough of that going on. I think our kids

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see that. And so they don't understand honor because they've not seen it.

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Pete I had one Christian leader, a woman, tell me, Judy, she said,

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I forgave my parents, I honored them, and I realized it wasn't

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them that were locked up in a prison, it was me. And when I forgave them, the door of the

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prison flew open. And all of a sudden, I could see my parents as real people

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and give them the freedom that I gave other people with grace to forgive them for the mistakes they

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made. And it transformed their relationship. That wasn't overnight, but she had a good mom and dad.

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But she, like Barbara, I think was captive without realizing it. And I didn't realize it either. All

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I know is she needed to do what God commanded. It's one of the Ten Commandments. And it's how you

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build a nation. You take honor home because Plato said, what is honored in the land will be cultivated

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there.

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Judy And just think of the impact then on your children to see you honoring your parents and

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setting the stage, kind of showing them what it looks like to honor your parents. And if they've

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seen that, then they have a picture that might penetrate the same kinds of things you're talking

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about where I thought they hadn't done anything right. What was I going to say? And if we can let

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our children know about that tribute that we would write to our parents, then that's going to have an

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impact on them.

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Barbara Yeah, I think so. For sure it will. Yeah.

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Jim In fact, Barbara gave it to them for Christmas. And I kind of ushered the kids away from Barbara

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so she could read it.

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Judy Well, the kids actually ended up watching.

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Jim They ended up watching it.

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Barbara Which was great, because that's how they saw it modeled, is they watched me give it to them.

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And I think had they been away, the impact wouldn't have been as significant. So I'm glad that they

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were there watching.

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Jim Yeah, and I don't think Barbara was planning on crying as she read the tree.

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Barbara No, of course not. Who plans to cry?

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Jim But she really was sobbing at points, and the kids were going, Mom, what's wrong? And there was

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nothing wrong. It was good. It was all good. Tears show heart and love and appreciation. And I was

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so proud of Barbara for fighting through initially apathy, mistrust of me, thinking I was pestering

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her. But that tribute, Judy, hung in their kitchen.

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Barbara For a long time, yeah.

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Jim For a long time.

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Barbara Yeah, and I have it now. Because it's in, yeah. After they were gone, I grabbed that thing

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right away. So anyway.

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Jim That's a beautiful story. And a great model to help us be able to show them what it looks like.

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Barbara That really leads us to the third thing.

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Barbara I was going to say, what's the next one?

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Jim Let go and don't control.

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Barbara Oh, that's so easy to do.

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Barbara This was a good one for everyone listening to right then.

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Jim Pull your pen out and write on the sheet of paper. Let go and don't control.

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Barbara Even rhymes.

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Jim Your children were made to be released.

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Barbara Absolutely.

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Jim They were not made to be possessed.

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Barbara I think the thing that makes it so hard is that we probably got that on the front end when

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they were little, because we wanted to be released from our parents. And so I think that made sense

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then. But you know, after you invest in them for 18 years each or longer, it's real hard to let go.

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Because it's like, okay, I poured my life into you, and then you're going to walk away.

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Jim Yeah.

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Barbara And if you don't see them making good decisions, that makes it even harder.

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Jim It makes it even harder.

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Jim Do you feel like, I mean, I experienced it last week. Barbara had to tell me, Judy,

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don't say anything.

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Barbara Yeah, we were on a phone call with one of our adult kids, and he was wanting to give some

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instruction and remind this one, you know, what the truth is and whatever. And I was going, no,

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no, stop.

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Jim And I didn't. I really didn't.

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Barbara Yeah. But it's just natural to want to keep guiding and coaching and correcting and

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directing, but we can't.

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Jim Yeah. So here's four thoughts we have on this one, let go and don't control. The first one's a

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quote by Stephen Covey, who was the Seven Habits of Effective People. He said, begin with the end

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in mind. With your children, you have to begin with the end in mind. That means you need to be

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thinking of this arrow being aimed, let go. And at that point, you really do let go, whether it's

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first grade or in high school or college or when you place her hand in the hand of a man that you

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don't know in marriage. It's a big deal. Second one, letting go begins with baby steps. We have a

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lot of helicopter parents hovering over their kids, thinking that the kids have got to have them

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involved in their lives. I get it. I feel it 110%. I'm with you. But you can't hold on and let go at

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the same time. Think about that. You can't hold on and let go at the same time.

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And perhaps that helicoptering and that holding on is part of what is causing a lot of them

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to now say, let go. I'm going away because you won't let go.

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Yeah. And I think they push back against us because they feel like we are being too controlling and

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we are too involved and we're saying too much. And so they want their space. Tell them what

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one of our sons said to you one time. About he didn't want any more sermons.

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Yeah. He said, we've heard all your stuff, dad. We don't need to hear what you believe anymore.

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I knew you'd like that, Judy. And he wasn't being mean, but he really...

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We've heard your stuff. Actually, Judy, I was telling him to listen to my radio show.

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And he said, I don't want to listen to your stuff. I live with this stuff.

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He said, I've heard it all. And of course, we know they haven't heard it all, but they think

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they've heard it all. So, okay, let them think they've heard it all.

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And the third point I'd make underneath this one, be prepared to clarify your relationship

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with your child at major points of release that happens in their lives.

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And what does that mean to clarify it? College. As they leave and go to college,

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clarify the expectations. Yeah. What does that mean for them to be

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on their own? Are they really on their own or what is this going to look like where we're paying?

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So, this is what we want to know. But you're on your own. You don't have to tell us what you're

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doing every day. I mean, clarify what that is because it's when things are muddy and murky

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that we get our feelings hurt because we're assuming they're going to call every day or whatever.

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I hope not. Once a week or whatever.

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And the kids have no intention whatsoever. So, if you clarify it on the front end,

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it just makes it easier for everybody. And when they get married, it's just not

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symbolic for this cause, the scripture says, a man shall leave his mother and father and shall

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cleave to his wife. That means the mother and the dad have got to let go and let them cleave

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because if you don't... They can't leave if you don't let go.

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I actually had six conversations with the young man who got our youngest, our youngest, Laura.

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So, I'd gotten fully trained by the time I did this, Judy, and I was loaded for bear with him.

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And I looked at him and I said, if you ever sense that Barbara or I are overstepping our bounds

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in your marriage, I want you to call me. I want you to get right on the phone. We don't need any

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triangles in this family. Come right to me. And if it's Barbara, Barbara and I will talk about it.

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If it's me, I'll talk to Barbara about that too. The point is, is create an openness where

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expectations can be expressed in an honest, truthful way. There's a lot of Christians that

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really don't want authenticity. Authenticity, honesty, sometimes hurts, but it's how you build

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a relationship that goes the distance. So does that make sense?

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Oh, it does make sense. And it's really hard. I had one with one of my sons-in-law that I had

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some thoughts that he should have, I thought. And it took two or three conversations and I shut up.

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I just had to say, okay, you're in God's hands and you all are together and I am letting go.

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Yeah, that's really true.

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A friend of ours, Stu and Linda Weber, when they saw their boys get married,

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she took the apron strings.

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Literally took the apron strings and cut the strings off.

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And gave the husband the scissors to cut the apron strings. And so they're sitting there holding

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the apron strings in their hands at the altar, symbolically saying, we're going to let go.

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We got to move on to this fourth lesson we learned because this is a big one too. You go ahead,

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sweetie.

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Oh, so this is one of my favorite moments as we were getting ready to send our kids off one by

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one. And I don't remember, we may have already sent off one or two, but we have really good

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friends here in town who also have six kids, but they were 10 years ahead of us. So their oldest

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was 10 years older than our oldest. And so it was really great to have somebody else we could watch

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and see what they were going through before we got there. And one day she said to me, when our kids

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were teenagers and we were about to start launching them out, she said, you know, when you're raising

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your kids and they're little, you are really important in their lives. And you have to be

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important in their lives because they would die if you aren't important. If you're not the most

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important person in their life, if you're not really big in their lives, knowing everything

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and managing everything, controlling everything, they're too little, they would die. But what you

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have to realize as they grow up is that you as a parent need to get smaller. So it's the idea of

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this great big triangle and this side of it, the base of it, is where you start out and you're

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really big in your child's life and you have to be and God designed it to be that way. But by the

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way, leave, you have to be small. You have to get small and you have to be small.

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That's such a great, yeah, very helpful.

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It was so helpful to me and just helped me understand what my place needed to be and my

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role and my size. They didn't want me to be big anymore. They don't need me to be big anymore.

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They don't need me to save them and rescue them anymore. They have to figure that out because we

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want them to go to God. He's the one that needs to rescue them. So we love sharing that with

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parents of adult kids because it resonates every time. The idea of becoming smaller makes sense

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and I think it's really helpful because it helps us, it just helps us grasp onto what God envisioned.

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And it is absolutely a picture of what you were saying. All the need is there at the beginning,

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but as they grow, it's less and less.

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Less and less.

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John 3.30, John the Baptist said this, he must increase.

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I must decrease.

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But I must decrease.

258
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And it's a model of parenting.

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It's an assignment from God and it's no fun sometimes.

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But it's a picture of what we want for our children because we have to be big when they're

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little, but if we're not decreasing, then Jesus can't become more important to them.

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If we stay big all the way through their lives, then Jesus can't become their everything.

263
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The scripture is a great application to parenting and raising kids.

264
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I was going to ask one question on that.

265
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Okay.

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So what do you do when they come to you asking for wisdom, help,

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and you think it's how do you decide when to be helpful and respond to their question or

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when do you need to say, you know, I think you can figure that out yourself?

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Well, you know each of your children better than anyone.

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And there's where parenting is a two-person tag team.

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If you wonder when you should speak and when you should be quiet, as Barbara told me, you know,

272
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don't say it, sweetheart.

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Don't say it at all.

274
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And so the first piece of advice, we got five little tips here.

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Okay, five.

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The first one is zip it.

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Zip the lips.

278
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Because it's better to say too little than to say too much.

279
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Oh, I think that's true.

280
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Because you can't bring it back once you've said it.

281
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So it's better to say too little and have your kids say, no, I really want to know what you think.

282
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That's just a much better place to be in than saying too much.

283
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And then they say, would you button it?

284
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And, you know, then you get your feelings.

285
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Zip it.

286
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And if there's work, I went to my son-in-law, the last one, I said, if I don't zip it,

287
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nail me, call me.

288
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Her lawyer's name is Josh.

289
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And I told Josh, I said, my phone number's in your phone.

290
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Call me.

291
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And it's hard because you're watching things happen and they're raising their kids

292
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and they aren't raising them like we did, Judy.

293
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No, they aren't.

294
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Did you notice that?

295
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Yes.

296
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A second one, where he mentioned this, but retire the preaching daddy and the teaching mommy.

297
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Be a cheerleader and don't offer advice unless asked.

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And in the rare case, they ask your advice like Judy's children ask her all the time.

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Then you know what?

300
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Just become a life coach who's on call.

301
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If they want to call, they can do that.

302
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But if they don't ask, man, so tough.

303
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The third thing, give up on manipulation.

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Give up on manipulation.

305
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Give up on manipulation, playing games.

306
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Sending too many books or, you know, just what we think are just helpful suggestions

307
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,440
feel like high control management to them.

308
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Yeah.

309
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Number four, don't rescue or be an enabler.

310
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Every parent, and Judy, you've experienced this.

311
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I know we've talked about it.

312
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Every parent is set up and wired to be a rescuer.

313
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Absolutely.

314
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A mommy is a mommy when she sees her son, whether he's 40 or four, and he scrapes his knee,

315
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she's going to run in there to put a bandaid on it, you know, and bandage.

316
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So retire the rescuer.

317
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You got to rewire your instincts and clarify with your kids.

318
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Now, this is tough, but you got to live with this.

319
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Clarify with your kids.

320
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You are not going to rescue them when they get in a tough spot.

321
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And that's really, really hard.

322
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But honestly, Barbara and I have found that if you don't retire the rescuing parent

323
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in their 30s and 40s, you're going to create an emotional cripple.

324
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A young man or a young lady who has to run home to mommy or run home to daddy,

325
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,960
that's not a healthy relationship in that marriage for them either.

326
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Well, no, that's true.

327
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:31,060
It's not.

328
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Number five on this one, surrender your desire to see your ideas and values take root in your

329
00:30:38,420 --> 00:30:45,300
children as you watch them do relationships, raise their own children and make decisions.

330
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They will do it different.

331
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Differently.

332
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:49,380
Excuse me.

333
00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:51,940
I know your grammar, your grammar Nazi.

334
00:30:51,940 --> 00:30:53,540
I'm a grammar Nazi.

335
00:30:53,540 --> 00:30:54,740
No doubt about it.

336
00:30:54,740 --> 00:30:56,420
You and Barbara are the same cloth.

337
00:30:57,700 --> 00:30:58,180
Yeah.

338
00:30:58,180 --> 00:31:02,980
Yeah, you know, that's enough on that one.

339
00:31:02,980 --> 00:31:07,460
I mean, just surrender your desire to see your ideas multiply.

340
00:31:07,460 --> 00:31:10,020
But it's not an easy thing to do.

341
00:31:10,020 --> 00:31:10,900
No, it's not.

342
00:31:10,900 --> 00:31:19,460
And I think, you know, I keep reminding myself that God knows and he has plans for our kids

343
00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:21,460
and he wants to accomplish those plans.

344
00:31:21,460 --> 00:31:26,020
And I think the problem is, is I think we get in the way of what God's trying to do

345
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sometimes by rescuing them and trying to fix it for them when the very best thing for them

346
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to do is to get to a place where they have to call on God.

347
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And so I think as hard as it is to not rescue and to not help, it's the best thing to do

348
00:31:45,140 --> 00:31:52,500
is to let them fall, let them not have enough money for rent for the month or whatever the

349
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:55,940
whatever the consequence might be, because that's how they grow up.

350
00:31:55,940 --> 00:31:56,900
It's how we grew up.

351
00:31:56,900 --> 00:31:57,460
Yeah.

352
00:31:57,460 --> 00:31:58,900
And we have to let them do it.

353
00:31:59,700 --> 00:32:01,220
All right, real quick summary.

354
00:32:01,220 --> 00:32:06,900
Number one, remember the goal of parenting is for them to be independently dependent

355
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upon Jesus Christ.

356
00:32:07,860 --> 00:32:12,180
Number two, before going forward, look backwards and honor your parents.

357
00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:15,220
Number three, let go and don't control.

358
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Number four, get smaller, not bigger in your child's life.

359
00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:22,740
And number five, oh, this is so this is so healthy.

360
00:32:23,380 --> 00:32:26,100
Create a safe relationship.

361
00:32:26,980 --> 00:32:28,420
You know how to do that?

362
00:32:28,420 --> 00:32:30,420
Ask your child what that looks like.

363
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:39,620
Let him or her or them husband and wife, because they got an opinion on that.

364
00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:45,700
It's not that your opinion as a parent doesn't matter, but this isn't about us.

365
00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:46,980
It's about them.

366
00:32:46,980 --> 00:32:55,380
And so ask them, how can we create a safe relationship going forward and ask them to

367
00:32:55,380 --> 00:32:55,940
define it?

368
00:32:55,940 --> 00:33:00,820
And I would say get your pen and paper out at that point and write down what they say.

369
00:33:02,100 --> 00:33:07,140
Well, that would say something to the kid if you actually wrote down what they said to you.

370
00:33:07,140 --> 00:33:10,900
Yeah, they would be put it on the fridge.

371
00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:11,700
Yeah.

372
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:15,300
Our desire as parents is for too is for too much involvement.

373
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:16,660
Yes.

374
00:33:16,660 --> 00:33:17,780
That's just the way it is.

375
00:33:18,740 --> 00:33:19,620
Define it then.

376
00:33:20,180 --> 00:33:21,060
What is too much?

377
00:33:21,060 --> 00:33:22,100
What's not enough?

378
00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:27,940
So tell her what our kids told us when we asked, OK, how often do you want to see us

379
00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:30,420
and what that looks like on an ongoing basis?

380
00:33:30,420 --> 00:33:35,060
This was quite a few years ago, but we were staying with one of them.

381
00:33:35,620 --> 00:33:39,540
And he said, you know, you all are just not coming enough.

382
00:33:40,260 --> 00:33:44,500
And I know that that's not a problem.

383
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:51,220
Some people in our season have, but part of it for us is geographic because all of our

384
00:33:51,220 --> 00:33:53,140
kids live out of state except one.

385
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:58,180
And some of them we can't see without buying plane tickets.

386
00:34:00,180 --> 00:34:05,460
So it's not just a matter of not going and not being there enough.

387
00:34:05,460 --> 00:34:07,300
It's also just practical.

388
00:34:07,300 --> 00:34:11,300
But anyway, we said, well, what would you like?

389
00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:17,220
And this one said, well, we'd like to see you at least twice a year for four days each.

390
00:34:18,260 --> 00:34:19,700
So we'd like to see each.

391
00:34:19,700 --> 00:34:24,980
We'd like for you to come for at least twice a year and stay and stay for four days.

392
00:34:24,980 --> 00:34:26,260
So we did the math.

393
00:34:26,260 --> 00:34:28,020
And that didn't count the travel days.

394
00:34:28,020 --> 00:34:28,180
Yeah.

395
00:34:28,180 --> 00:34:34,260
So we did the math and we added up four days times two times six kids plus two days of

396
00:34:34,260 --> 00:34:40,420
travel on either end for the one because at the time this was by the time that our son told us

397
00:34:40,420 --> 00:34:42,340
this, he was living in Seattle.

398
00:34:42,340 --> 00:34:47,780
Well, you can't get to Seattle easily from most places in the country, maybe Denver.

399
00:34:47,780 --> 00:34:54,420
But we realized it was two full months of our lives would be spent traveling and seeing

400
00:34:54,420 --> 00:34:54,900
our kids.

401
00:34:54,900 --> 00:34:56,820
Well, you didn't have anything else to do now.

402
00:34:56,820 --> 00:35:00,180
And we thought we have two months.

403
00:35:00,180 --> 00:35:00,980
We can't do that.

404
00:35:01,460 --> 00:35:03,140
Well, I used to work for Judy's husband.

405
00:35:04,900 --> 00:35:05,940
I saluted to him.

406
00:35:05,940 --> 00:35:06,820
So we had a job.

407
00:35:06,820 --> 00:35:07,860
Yeah, I know.

408
00:35:07,860 --> 00:35:08,340
Anyway.

409
00:35:08,340 --> 00:35:10,420
That was before we retired from family life.

410
00:35:10,420 --> 00:35:12,580
So we were both working full time.

411
00:35:12,580 --> 00:35:17,940
But anyway, it just was really interesting to have that conversation and hear them say

412
00:35:17,940 --> 00:35:19,060
what they really wanted.

413
00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:22,260
And did all the other children want that much too?

414
00:35:22,260 --> 00:35:24,100
Well, yeah, because it has to be fair and even.

415
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:24,740
Oh, yes.

416
00:35:24,740 --> 00:35:26,100
It has to be even.

417
00:35:26,100 --> 00:35:26,420
Yes.

418
00:35:27,540 --> 00:35:32,580
You know, Hershey's has little squares where you can break them off.

419
00:35:32,580 --> 00:35:34,180
We used to have candy bar.

420
00:35:34,180 --> 00:35:35,700
We'd split in our family.

421
00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:38,340
They'd break that Hershey bar off on the edges.

422
00:35:38,340 --> 00:35:39,940
So everybody got an equal piece.

423
00:35:40,820 --> 00:35:44,980
And as one person said, the fair is what comes around once a year.

424
00:35:47,620 --> 00:35:48,580
Life isn't fair.

425
00:35:49,140 --> 00:35:50,100
One more.

426
00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:54,660
This is really an important point before we move off of creating a safe relationship.

427
00:35:56,500 --> 00:36:01,780
When your children are dating someone that they may likely marry,

428
00:36:01,780 --> 00:36:09,780
be very careful of your observations that you might make about that person.

429
00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:12,900
We made a mistake here, more than one.

430
00:36:13,620 --> 00:36:22,100
And, you know, the best thing to do is to build up the other one and be very careful

431
00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:27,540
what you say because that can follow you into the marriage and into that relationship for

432
00:36:27,540 --> 00:36:31,940
10 years, 15 years, 20 years moving forward.

433
00:36:31,940 --> 00:36:36,020
One more point about this on safe relationship.

434
00:36:36,020 --> 00:36:40,180
One of the ways to build a relationship with them is by investing in their children,

435
00:36:40,180 --> 00:36:41,380
your grandchildren.

436
00:36:41,380 --> 00:36:47,780
And one of the ways we did this, Judy, was we had a road trip to the Creation Museum.

437
00:36:48,420 --> 00:36:49,140
Oh, yes.

438
00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:53,300
We took all of, not all, we took five or six.

439
00:36:53,300 --> 00:36:54,340
Five or six of them, yeah.

440
00:36:54,340 --> 00:36:55,940
Who were at the right age range.

441
00:36:55,940 --> 00:36:57,620
Yeah, right.

442
00:36:57,620 --> 00:37:01,300
And took them to the Creation Museum and taught them about worldview,

443
00:37:02,660 --> 00:37:05,220
how creation, the beginning of something, determines its purpose.

444
00:37:05,220 --> 00:37:06,180
We had so much fun. It was really great.

445
00:37:06,180 --> 00:37:07,860
It was really a blast.

446
00:37:07,860 --> 00:37:10,180
And then we took them back after the ark got built.

447
00:37:10,900 --> 00:37:15,780
And then a couple of years ago, and Judy, this was one of the greatest privileges,

448
00:37:15,780 --> 00:37:21,060
we took a number of our children and grandchildren, not all, to Israel.

449
00:37:22,260 --> 00:37:23,460
To Israel?

450
00:37:23,460 --> 00:37:23,780
Yeah.

451
00:37:23,780 --> 00:37:24,420
How?

452
00:37:24,420 --> 00:37:25,140
Oh, yeah.

453
00:37:25,140 --> 00:37:27,140
We just did that a year and a half ago.

454
00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:28,660
Before the bullets started flying.

455
00:37:28,660 --> 00:37:30,260
Yeah, thankfully.

456
00:37:30,260 --> 00:37:32,900
But you may not be able to afford that.

457
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:35,700
We told the kids we'd pay for them to go, but not their kids.

458
00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:38,260
So they chipped in and took care of the kids.

459
00:37:38,260 --> 00:37:42,420
And it was a great, great experience.

460
00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:44,180
And let me just add on that too.

461
00:37:45,860 --> 00:37:53,860
One of our expectations is that we would get certain holidays or certain events

462
00:37:53,860 --> 00:37:57,380
or certain things that we planned that we would get everybody.

463
00:37:58,100 --> 00:37:59,220
Everybody would come.

464
00:37:59,220 --> 00:38:00,980
That was our expectation.

465
00:38:00,980 --> 00:38:05,300
And one of the lessons that we've learned over the years is to be thankful for who we get.

466
00:38:06,180 --> 00:38:08,020
And not to complain about who can't come.

467
00:38:08,020 --> 00:38:09,300
Judy's getting a headache.

468
00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:12,580
Or who chooses not to come.

469
00:38:12,580 --> 00:38:19,700
Because if you worry about or fret about the fact that you only got two of your kids

470
00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:22,500
and all three of them couldn't come or whatever your numbers are,

471
00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:25,140
then you're not going to enjoy the two that are coming.

472
00:38:25,140 --> 00:38:28,820
And so when we did this trip to Israel, I just thought everybody would come.

473
00:38:28,820 --> 00:38:30,020
Well, we had half.

474
00:38:30,820 --> 00:38:33,620
So we had three of our kids and it was like, okay, great.

475
00:38:33,620 --> 00:38:34,740
God, that's who you brought.

476
00:38:34,740 --> 00:38:36,340
That's who you want to be there.

477
00:38:36,340 --> 00:38:38,020
And we're going to give thanks and enjoy it.

478
00:38:38,020 --> 00:38:39,140
And we had a blast.

479
00:38:39,140 --> 00:38:42,500
But so that's something that we've learned that's not in the notes.

480
00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:47,140
And I think it's really important to give thanks for who wants to be with you.

481
00:38:47,140 --> 00:38:50,260
Oh, I think that, yeah, that's really true.

482
00:38:50,260 --> 00:38:57,060
We used to do family vacations where all three kids and their kids would come together.

483
00:38:57,060 --> 00:38:57,620
Yeah.

484
00:38:57,620 --> 00:39:04,260
But then Josh, when he married his second wife, they became farmers.

485
00:39:05,220 --> 00:39:06,580
He has a job as well.

486
00:39:06,580 --> 00:39:07,860
But you know what?

487
00:39:07,860 --> 00:39:08,820
Hard to leave.

488
00:39:08,820 --> 00:39:10,900
You can't leave.

489
00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:18,260
They raise stock, livestock, cows and pigs and chickens and ducks.

490
00:39:18,260 --> 00:39:20,260
They can't leave.

491
00:39:20,260 --> 00:39:25,860
And so all of a sudden we couldn't do everyone together.

492
00:39:25,860 --> 00:39:30,100
And it's been, it's taken me a while to accept that.

493
00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:35,780
I just like, I love it when we're all together and I want my kids to still love each other

494
00:39:35,780 --> 00:39:36,740
and know each other.

495
00:39:36,740 --> 00:39:37,300
Sure.

496
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:39,300
I want the cousins to know each other.

497
00:39:39,300 --> 00:39:40,660
The cousins to be friends.

498
00:39:40,660 --> 00:39:41,220
Yeah.

499
00:39:41,220 --> 00:39:41,780
Of course.

500
00:39:41,780 --> 00:39:42,900
I see what you're saying.

501
00:39:42,900 --> 00:39:44,100
That's a hard thing.

502
00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:48,420
But you have to appreciate what you can have.

503
00:39:48,420 --> 00:39:51,220
The only time they all got together is when Steve died.

504
00:39:51,220 --> 00:39:51,940
Yeah.

505
00:39:51,940 --> 00:39:53,380
And they came for that.

506
00:39:53,380 --> 00:39:55,700
So I don't want to have to create that again.

507
00:39:55,700 --> 00:39:56,900
Right.

508
00:39:56,900 --> 00:40:03,060
But it's liberating though to be thankful for what you get, what God provides.

509
00:40:03,060 --> 00:40:03,860
I agree.

510
00:40:03,860 --> 00:40:08,260
And not to bemoan what you don't get.

511
00:40:08,260 --> 00:40:09,700
I just mean it's no fun.

512
00:40:09,700 --> 00:40:10,180
Right.

513
00:40:10,180 --> 00:40:14,340
And so it's really a better position to take to give thanks for.

514
00:40:14,340 --> 00:40:22,100
And they will appreciate that you are enjoying them and fewer is easier than a whole lot.

515
00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:22,900
It is easier.

516
00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:23,540
No doubt.

517
00:40:23,540 --> 00:40:24,100
Right.

518
00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:24,740
All right.

519
00:40:24,740 --> 00:40:33,140
Number six, share and model, not preach or teach, your experience with Jesus Christ.

520
00:40:33,140 --> 00:40:34,180
Absolutely.

521
00:40:34,180 --> 00:40:42,100
Psalm 78 verses 5 through 8 warns us, don't raise your kids to be like the generation

522
00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:47,140
of Israelites who were stubborn and refused to listen to God.

523
00:40:47,140 --> 00:40:52,100
And this is one of my hobby horses that I get on my soapbox about this.

524
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:58,980
I think what we have to do is we have to make sure our kids know that we're not practicing

525
00:40:58,980 --> 00:41:02,340
religion one day a week.

526
00:41:02,340 --> 00:41:10,980
That we have an experience with the King of Kings and Lord of Lords daily, weekly, every

527
00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:12,980
day of every month.

528
00:41:12,980 --> 00:41:14,180
All the time.

529
00:41:14,180 --> 00:41:15,380
All the time.

530
00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:22,340
And I think one of the reasons why we see, I think, a rash of prodigals in the church

531
00:41:22,340 --> 00:41:29,700
today is they look at their parents on Sunday and they hear what their parents are hearing

532
00:41:29,700 --> 00:41:35,300
and they're going, this doesn't match up with the other six days of the week.

533
00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:40,420
And so the kids are going, this isn't reality.

534
00:41:40,420 --> 00:41:47,220
When we make a mistake, we need to repent, confess it before God and to our kids.

535
00:41:47,220 --> 00:41:55,060
And I think what needs to happen is we need to have an authentic walk where we're sharing

536
00:41:55,060 --> 00:41:59,860
as a way of life what God's doing in our lives, what he's teaching us, what we got convicted

537
00:41:59,860 --> 00:42:05,140
of today when we were given too much change back at the grocery store.

538
00:42:05,140 --> 00:42:12,580
Or some mistake we made throughout the day, but to go and ask their forgiveness for getting

539
00:42:12,580 --> 00:42:13,620
angry.

540
00:42:13,620 --> 00:42:19,700
But the issue is to make a match of what they're hearing on Sunday and from the scriptures

541
00:42:19,700 --> 00:42:25,300
and from devotions that you lead them through with how you're living on an ongoing basis.

542
00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:32,580
I think if they see that, there's going to be less of a disconnect, which I think occurs

543
00:42:32,580 --> 00:42:40,100
with a generation whose parents are living one way but saying something, something else.

544
00:42:40,100 --> 00:42:42,660
I agree with that for sure.

545
00:42:42,660 --> 00:42:50,340
That we really need to let the love and the grace of God flow through us, the wisdom,

546
00:42:50,340 --> 00:42:59,060
the courage to take the stands we need to take and to give them the increasing freedom

547
00:42:59,060 --> 00:43:01,860
to live that themselves.

548
00:43:01,860 --> 00:43:04,420
So yeah, I agree with that.

549
00:43:04,420 --> 00:43:05,700
Very important.

550
00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:07,220
Number seven.

551
00:43:07,220 --> 00:43:12,820
Number seven, clarify expectations with one another.

552
00:43:12,820 --> 00:43:19,940
These will change as transitions occur in your lives as parents and in the lives of

553
00:43:19,940 --> 00:43:21,140
the children.

554
00:43:21,140 --> 00:43:27,860
And I've got to tell you, both Barbara and I are astounded at the pace our children are

555
00:43:27,860 --> 00:43:29,780
doing life.

556
00:43:29,780 --> 00:43:31,700
They are so busy.

557
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:32,980
Yes.

558
00:43:32,980 --> 00:43:40,100
So keep clarifying expectations around what Barbara mentioned, around holidays, around

559
00:43:40,100 --> 00:43:45,140
birthdays, what you're going to do with presents.

560
00:43:45,140 --> 00:43:54,100
You know, expectations and reality result in the disappointment gap.

561
00:43:54,100 --> 00:44:01,220
When expectations are up here and reality is much lower, that difference is not going

562
00:44:01,220 --> 00:44:03,220
to be there.

563
00:44:03,220 --> 00:44:06,980
You cross that difference by voicing them.

564
00:44:06,980 --> 00:44:08,100
Yeah.

565
00:44:08,100 --> 00:44:11,780
And just keeping a humble spirit.

566
00:44:11,780 --> 00:44:16,180
Expectations can crush and kill a relationship with your child.

567
00:44:16,180 --> 00:44:22,100
I really agree with that and I don't want to run over too quickly the other thing you

568
00:44:22,100 --> 00:44:25,900
just said to keep a humble spirit.

569
00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:33,060
As parents, we can think we know how to walk with God, we know how to make the right decisions,

570
00:44:33,060 --> 00:44:41,700
we know what we think you should be doing and we come across as arrogant even if we

571
00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:55,100
are not letting God remind us that Jesus was humble and he's asking us to walk in humility.

572
00:44:55,100 --> 00:44:59,860
One of the good things about getting older, it's also one of the hard things, but one

573
00:44:59,860 --> 00:45:06,500
of the good things about getting older is we in this season of our lives, we're all

574
00:45:06,500 --> 00:45:08,540
experiencing losses.

575
00:45:08,540 --> 00:45:13,820
We're experiencing personal losses, physical losses, loss of friends.

576
00:45:13,820 --> 00:45:19,140
You've experienced the loss of a spouse and I think God intends for all of those losses

577
00:45:19,140 --> 00:45:25,380
to humble us, to make us see that we need a savior, to make us see that we are not as

578
00:45:25,380 --> 00:45:32,460
capable and strong and powerful as we think we are and as we once thought we were because

579
00:45:32,460 --> 00:45:34,780
we seemed invincible once upon a time.

580
00:45:34,780 --> 00:45:43,500
So I think one of the gifts of getting older is understanding that we are fragile and we're

581
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:45,180
frail and we're not going to be here forever.

582
00:45:45,180 --> 00:45:50,740
I think if we can absorb that and allow God to use that for good in our lives instead

583
00:45:50,740 --> 00:45:55,540
of being angry about it, I think that our kids will see humility.

584
00:45:55,540 --> 00:46:00,780
I think part of the reason they don't see humility is because we're not surrendered

585
00:46:00,780 --> 00:46:03,380
and we're not saying...

586
00:46:03,380 --> 00:46:04,660
You can say you don't like it.

587
00:46:04,660 --> 00:46:05,660
I don't like it either.

588
00:46:05,660 --> 00:46:11,500
There's a lot of things I don't like about the aging process, but it is a part of what

589
00:46:11,500 --> 00:46:13,100
we all have to go through.

590
00:46:13,100 --> 00:46:18,660
If we surrender to God and say, okay, use this for good in my life.

591
00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:25,060
I mean, I'm a thousand times more aware of my sin now than I was 20 years ago, 30 years,

592
00:46:25,060 --> 00:46:27,660
40 years ago.

593
00:46:27,660 --> 00:46:34,400
It's made me more, I think, more humble and more broken and more...

594
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,780
Just even softer.

595
00:46:36,780 --> 00:46:42,980
So I think it's good for us in this season of life to allow God to use these hard things

596
00:46:42,980 --> 00:46:46,300
of aging for our good.

597
00:46:46,300 --> 00:46:52,820
First Peter 4, 8 says, love covers a multitude of sins.

598
00:46:52,820 --> 00:46:56,580
Yeah, it's one of my favorite verses in this season.

599
00:46:56,580 --> 00:46:59,700
That is such a full passage.

600
00:46:59,700 --> 00:47:03,300
Love covers a multitude of sins.

601
00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:09,580
My sins, Barbara's sin, the kids sin, the grandkids sin.

602
00:47:09,580 --> 00:47:14,500
And we'll close with two things.

603
00:47:14,500 --> 00:47:21,660
One is a statement that John Stott made, the great British statesman, Christian mission

604
00:47:21,660 --> 00:47:23,780
to the modern world.

605
00:47:23,780 --> 00:47:32,820
He said this, life is a pilgrimage of learning, a voyage of discovery in which our mistaken

606
00:47:32,820 --> 00:47:45,420
views are corrected, our distorted notions adjusted, our shallow opinions deepened, and

607
00:47:45,420 --> 00:47:49,660
greatly some of our vast ignorance diminished.

608
00:47:49,660 --> 00:47:51,620
Isn't that great?

609
00:47:51,620 --> 00:47:52,900
That's hopeful anyway.

610
00:47:52,900 --> 00:47:53,900
It is hopeful.

611
00:47:53,900 --> 00:47:55,460
It's very hopeful.

612
00:47:55,460 --> 00:48:01,700
I'll tell you, I had a chance of going to Billy Graham's funeral and I went with a

613
00:48:01,700 --> 00:48:06,060
friend and we sat there in a very chilly tent.

614
00:48:06,060 --> 00:48:07,060
Were you there, Judy?

615
00:48:07,060 --> 00:48:08,420
No, Steve was.

616
00:48:08,420 --> 00:48:10,500
Yeah, it was cold.

617
00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:11,500
Wind was blowing in Charlotte.

618
00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:15,260
I think it was in February or March.

619
00:48:15,260 --> 00:48:26,620
But Billy Graham had lived his life and his daughter got up and gave a tribute to Billy.

620
00:48:26,620 --> 00:48:28,100
And she said...

621
00:48:28,100 --> 00:48:29,100
And she was a prodigal.

622
00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:30,100
Oh yeah.

623
00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:31,100
Yes, she was.

624
00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:32,100
She really was.

625
00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:38,460
And it was the highlight of the funeral in my opinion.

626
00:48:38,460 --> 00:48:39,580
I think so too.

627
00:48:39,580 --> 00:48:43,020
I remember watching that.

628
00:48:43,020 --> 00:48:53,820
She got up and said, daddy and mama put up with me when I got married the wrong guy,

629
00:48:53,820 --> 00:49:01,740
refused to listen to him and got a divorce and then turned around and did it again.

630
00:49:01,740 --> 00:49:02,740
And I moved to California.

631
00:49:02,740 --> 00:49:05,380
I was so ashamed.

632
00:49:05,380 --> 00:49:12,460
And she said, I called daddy and told him I was coming home.

633
00:49:12,460 --> 00:49:15,980
She had moved all the way to California and of course, Charlotte's on the other side.

634
00:49:15,980 --> 00:49:17,620
So she had plenty of time to think.

635
00:49:17,620 --> 00:49:27,060
She drove back and evidently where the Graham family live, there's a driveway that goes

636
00:49:27,060 --> 00:49:33,060
up to a rather large mansion of sorts, I think.

637
00:49:33,060 --> 00:49:38,100
And I'm getting emotional because she told this story.

638
00:49:38,100 --> 00:49:45,060
She said, as I turned the corner and headed up the hill, there was daddy with both of

639
00:49:45,060 --> 00:49:50,260
his arms welcoming, welcoming.

640
00:49:50,260 --> 00:49:52,580
Absolutely.

641
00:49:52,580 --> 00:49:55,540
Billy Graham was never greater.

642
00:49:55,540 --> 00:50:01,860
He was never greater than at that moment to forgive his daughter and welcome her back.

643
00:50:01,860 --> 00:50:05,540
And she said that.

644
00:50:05,540 --> 00:50:14,100
It's one of the best stories and it happens a lot, but it also doesn't happen sometimes.

645
00:50:14,100 --> 00:50:21,100
The parents won't welcome them.

646
00:50:21,100 --> 00:50:24,820
So any last thoughts you want to share?

647
00:50:24,820 --> 00:50:30,580
This has been so full of really good ideas and good living practice.

648
00:50:30,580 --> 00:50:35,020
I think we've probably said too much, kind of like some adult parents.

649
00:50:35,020 --> 00:50:37,780
Yeah, maybe.

650
00:50:37,780 --> 00:50:41,700
It's a privilege to be with you though, Judy.

651
00:50:41,700 --> 00:50:43,700
Thanks for being on your podcast.

652
00:50:43,700 --> 00:50:46,620
I'm so glad that you're willing and available.

653
00:50:46,620 --> 00:50:49,260
I know your schedule's busy.

654
00:50:49,260 --> 00:50:52,580
So mine's been a little busy lately too.

655
00:50:52,580 --> 00:50:55,420
So it's really fun to do this with you.

656
00:50:55,420 --> 00:50:57,500
I'm so glad you're doing a podcast.

657
00:50:57,500 --> 00:50:58,820
I'm really glad.

658
00:50:58,820 --> 00:51:00,040
Yes.

659
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:05,180
When they first asked me to do a podcast for people with prodigals, I said, I've never

660
00:51:05,180 --> 00:51:10,380
even listened to a podcast.

661
00:51:10,380 --> 00:51:14,300
So I've learned, but I have good people here who'd help.

662
00:51:14,300 --> 00:51:15,300
Yeah.

663
00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:16,300
Well, it makes all the difference.

664
00:51:16,300 --> 00:51:17,300
Well, good for you.

665
00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:19,580
Well, thank you so much.

666
00:51:19,580 --> 00:51:26,060
And to my listeners, you have so many things to choose from that Dennis and Barbara has

667
00:51:26,060 --> 00:51:27,780
shared with you.

668
00:51:27,780 --> 00:51:33,200
And I'll try to make just a brief list in the show notes to help you if you didn't get

669
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:34,960
them all written down.

670
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:43,300
But ask God to show you how to apply this at whatever stage of life you and your kids

671
00:51:43,300 --> 00:51:52,420
are at so that you have such a better opportunity and likelihood that you'll go forward and

672
00:51:52,420 --> 00:51:59,340
be able to enjoy each other in the future and not have that separation that can occur.

673
00:51:59,340 --> 00:52:00,340
So thank you.

674
00:52:00,340 --> 00:52:01,340
Thank you.

675
00:52:01,340 --> 00:52:03,660
God bless you, Dennis and Barbara.

676
00:52:03,660 --> 00:52:05,740
God bless you to my listeners.

677
00:52:05,740 --> 00:52:06,740
And bless you too, Judy.

678
00:52:06,740 --> 00:52:07,740
Amen.

679
00:52:07,740 --> 00:52:08,740
Thank you.

680
00:52:08,740 --> 00:52:34,740
Amen.