From Guilt to Grace with Dawn Ward, episode 153

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If you love a prodigal, you can discover help and hope for your wilderness journey right here

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at the When You Love a Prodigal podcast and also help and hope for your own life journey.

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As you listen today, I hope you'll just pay attention to be alert to ideas or actions

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that could be helpful to you in your current journey wherever you are. But as I always say,

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be sure and write them down unless you're better than I am because if I don't write it down,

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it's gone. I don't remember it. So you'll want to learn from this and apply it. So write it down.

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Now, our guest today is Dawn Ward. She is a life and mental health coach, a writer, a speaker,

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and one of us. She's lived through a prodigal journey. Her ministry is called Faith to Plurish,

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and she has a brand new book from Guilt to Grace. It just came out this week. So you can get it,

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and we'll even be giving away a couple. So pay attention for that at the end. Welcome, Dawn.

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Dawn Ward Thank you for having me, Judy. I'm really glad to be here.

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Judy Ward Well, it is my pleasure and our privilege to get to hear from you. And I'm so glad

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that you're here because you have a powerful story to tell. So let's get into your story.

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First of all, just tell us a little about your family and the beginnings at least in part of

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the journey that you've had. Judy Ward Well, I am the mother of three children. They're all adults

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now, two boys and a daughter. My husband, Steve, and I have been married for 44 years.

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I was, we were married very young. And so we've had a lifetime together, more time with each other

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than without each other. And that's been a real blessing. And with me, my journey with my children

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struggling and with addiction and prodigal, you know, kind of going off on their own path

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started, I would say back when I was a child myself. I grew up in a home where my father

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abused alcohol. And I just lived in that, that emotional state all the time, that high alert

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state all the time of as a child that trying to perform, trying to do what was right so that

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my parents wouldn't fight and my dad wouldn't drink. And I think I got really caught up in people

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pleasing and all of that. And I brought that into mothering. And so when I brought that into

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mothering way before my sons were dealing with their issues, I can look back and see that I had a

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lot of fear as a mom. And I worried so much about what they turned to alcohol. I never thought about

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drugs, but I thought what they turned to alcohol like so many of the men in my family had. And so

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I did my best. I put them in Christian school and raised them to know the Lord and taught them

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what friends they should be hanging out with, you know, how to look for like the warning signs,

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right, of all the dangerous things that could be going on out there. And thought that I had done

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a pretty good job realizing I just put my fears on them. And as boys, they just thought, mom's just

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worrying too much. And she probably, you know, just stresses out all the time and probably didn't

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take too many of my fears all that seriously anyway. But what happened with us was we were

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doing really well. The boys were both in Christian school and I think things were going pretty well.

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And my husband had a back injury and numerous surgeries and ultimately ended up disabled

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from his career of many years. And as a result of that, I went back to working in the workplace

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full time. And our budget was not what it was before. And so forwarding Christian school and

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all that was something that was out of the question. And so the children went into public school.

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And they kind of went from a real isolated environment where they, you know, just a little

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bubble that they were in and very accountable families like sometimes you don't want people all

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up in your business. But when it's the church people and they're helping raise your kid and

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keeping an eye on your kids for you and things, it's nice. And it's like living from a small

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town to a big city when your kids end up going into public school and have it been there.

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So my oldest was going into high school and my middle son was in junior high. And then my daughter

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was still in elementary school. And so when they went in, my older son kind of embraced everything.

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He was looking forward to it and the sports and all the activities that go along with public high

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school and all that excitement. And he did pretty well there. And but my middle son, I think he had

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more struggles. He wasn't so excited about leaving private private school and Christian school and

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all of his friends. And he got into music and sports and was doing really well until his last

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year of high school. And it was in his last year of high school, I started to notice some changes

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in him. He is Norway a natural redhead, beautiful red hair. And I came home one day and he dyed

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his hair black and he just seemed to be grungy, kind of looking. He kind of got into that look.

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And while he was still in his school bands and things, he was getting, he got into a garage

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band and kind of took on that look. And I would look at him and say, what's going on? Kind of

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noticed his grades were slipping. And I thought this is kind of an odd thing because I'd already

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gotten one all the way through high school who was in college and you'd done a great job. Yeah.

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And I thought things were going okay. And then all of a sudden I've seen these changes. And

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one day I remember going to the, I ran over to Target of all places. My son was working there

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and I saw him sitting out front smoking a cigarette and he dropped it under his foot

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real quick, you know, and like I didn't see it. But there was those kinds of things that I was

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noticing were going on. And I thought, what's going on? He says, I hate school. I don't want to be in

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school and all this. So we ended up putting him into, he's finished out his high school year,

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but doing it more remotely. And so again, I didn't know. I didn't know there were things like drug

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tests. I suspected, but I couldn't put my finger on it. And I would, you know, I would confront him.

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And he said, Mom, you were always right. You always knew. I just didn't know how you went

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about proving it. And so it was not too far, not too long after that, he was still in high school

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and he was still a minor that he came to us and said, you know, I've been hanging with the wrong

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crowd. I've been smoking marijuana and I'm having a hard time getting off of it. And I really don't

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want to be doing this. And so we got him some medicine. What a blessing that that was his choice.

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Yes, because until then, you know, this was a kid who'd never lied to mom, but now

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flying through his teeth. And so, but I think he had hope for his future. And I think he had goals

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and he realized that he was really going down the wrong path and it was, it was not going to be good.

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And so when he took my husband aside and told him and they came out, he said, well, what's going

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on? What's he using? And, and he kept saying, I'm just using pot. Well, come to find out they were

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lacing it with very addictive substances, which they are still doing today. People need to be very

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careful of that. So my side didn't even know until his reports came back, you know, his toxicology

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that he was, that there was even cocaine and I think heroin in there. And that's why it was

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making it so hard for him to just, he thought he could just stop, right? Yeah. And so that's pretty

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controlling. Yeah, it really is. And, and so they reassured us at the time. Now, things have changed

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a lot. This was about 20, almost 20 years ago. Things have changed a lot in that a lot more

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people need medical attention and everything because of the substances that they're addicted to,

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you know, could cause a lot of physical harm. And they, and so I did have medical oversight on

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how to handle this. And what they explained to me was he's just going to feel really crummy

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for several days. He's going to feel like he has a flu. He's going to feel like he's, you know,

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sick. He's going to, his cravings are going to be strong. He's going to need a lot of support.

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And so that's the direction we went. Ultimately, still in high school, you know, still hanging

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out with the wrong crowd. He had some episodes where he thought, Hey, I got this all figured out

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and realized it had a stronger and his, and his friends had a stronger influence on him than he

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thought. So after he turned 18, we all decided what with his Christian counselor would be smart

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for him to go to a different state and go into, even though he wasn't using at that time, but go

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into a program that could really help him get back on his, a Christ centered program. And that's

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what he did. He ended up going in and he actually went through their program to become licensed as

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a mental health worker and worked in their program and then worked in a state mental health facility.

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And it got him on a path where he decided to go into medicine and to go into, you know,

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into professionally. That's what he wanted to do. And that's what he wanted to go back to college for.

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And so, gratefully, he had, you know, the best case scenario in that it wasn't, I think, so much of

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it is when they're just not ready and they just don't think their problem is serious and they're

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not willing to take the help and the steps that they need. We have a real hard time as a parent

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getting them there. But when they recognize that this is something I need to deal with and I can't

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do it alone, then the help is there for them. And so, he had a wonderful, you know, in that situation

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we're so blessed for how that worked out because it could have gone one of two really bad, you know,

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one way good or one way really bad at his young age. And so, we thought things were going pretty

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well. And then a few years later, his older brother, we found out he had always had stomach

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problems, always had health issues and had already graduated from college, but he, without, he had a

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congenital birth defect in his stomach. And it required a surgery where they actually wrapped

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his stomach around his esophagus. And for months, he was on a liquid diet. He was just really in

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pain. Well, this was during the time when Big Pharma was telling us that the drugs they were

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prescribing were not addictive. And so, a lot of people got addicted to pain medications and things

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like that during that time. And my son happened to be one of them. And along with some issues he

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had with anxiety and depression, I feel like it was kind of like mother's milk to him. I feel like

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he just felt balanced. He said he felt normal. And before we knew it, we were taking him to the

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doctor and saying, what's going on? And the doctor said, well, medical practice has failed you. Your

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son is addicted to these pain meds. And it started a cycle for him where he was going to get psychiatric

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care and they were over prescribing things like Xanax and different addictive substances like that,

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which ultimately became more of his drug of choice was the benzodiazepans. While the problem that

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happened with pain pills was that they went when they could no longer access the pain pills when

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regulations started to come down on the prescribing, so many went to the street drugs like smoking or

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injecting heroin or black tar heroin. And now the third tier is fentanyl. And we're seeing fentanyl on

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the streets now. And it's very leaseholding, very deadly. So my son kind of got in with that. Let's

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see. I would say that would have been about 14 years ago or so that that happened with him,

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14, 15 years ago. And his problem has definitely taken him on what we would call the prodigal

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journey and that numerous accidents where he shouldn't have survived, DUIs and car accidents

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and things and hospitalizations, mental health breakdowns. Also, he's been arrested and been in

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jail multiple times. And we've had a few suicide attempts. And so we have really experienced

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the hard part of what can happen when it's like I had the hope. And then I have the real hard,

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hard, hard journey. And you live in fear either way. You live in fear that the one's going to end

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up is doing well is going to end up not doing well. And you live in fear that the one that's not

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doing well is going to do worse. And as a mom, what was happening was I was putting so much of it

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on myself. I think growing up in a home where I was the adult child of a parent who had struggled

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with alcohol and all of that. And there were so many mixed messages that came as a child growing up

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where people don't want to accept responsibility for what they're doing. And you kid cause mom and

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dad to fight. You kid make dad drink that kind of a thing. And there's messages that weren't true

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and they probably didn't even mean it and think about it when they said it, but they stick with

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kids. And so as you grow up, you start to carry those into motherly, which is what I did. And I

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thought, well, I'm not sure if I caused it. Maybe I did. I don't know. That was how I thought about

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it. But I thought I sure should be the person who could fix this. I'm the mom. I should be a

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little bit fix it. You're the mom. You should be able to fix it. Yeah. And that was where my

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struggle really started of getting in and meddling with what God was doing. Like how do you love and

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support your child without constantly, constantly being in there, telling them they're broken and

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trying to fix them. And that was the journey that I had to, myself had to go on. And that's kind of

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how my ministry, the faith, the flourish and how Christian moms and addicted children and ultimately

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this book came out of everything God's taught me over all these years. Wow. That's some, and here you

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are. Yes, praise God. You said there was an aha moment. Yes. That changed everything. It did.

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I'd like to backtrack to when I was four years old, just because it's part of my, my aha moment.

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And so what happened when I was four years old was my parents didn't take us to church. My mother

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was Lutheran. And so she did believe in things like confirmation and those type of things that

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there were a normal practice of the Lutheran church. So we attended for holidays and occasional,

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but really on a regular basis, we didn't go to church. But in church, I started feeling God's

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love. And I would ask at a real young age for mom to take me to church. And she would, she drove,

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drive me around the corner to the little Lutheran church and she dropped me off and she picked me

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up. And so I know that I was only four or five when this happened because we'd all moved out of that

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house by the time I was a little over six. And, and my baby brother wasn't born yet. So there was

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things like that I knew about. And one day I remember being really afraid. My parents were

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really arguing. And I think my dad was pretty inebriated. And my dad was always such a responsible,

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hardworking dad. He always took really good care of us. You know, he just had his own things

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that he struggled with, but always took really good care of us. And, but he just was loud and,

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and, and ordinary when he would drink. And I'd get scared. I, and while I seemed like I was

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real confident on the outside and chatting and everything, I held a lot of all that fear inside.

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And I remember one time hiding behind a piece of furniture. I was hiding behind a piece of

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furniture. And I heard the, I heard the Lord kind of like a feliti, like I knew it was God.

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And I knew Jesus was talking to me. And he said, hold on to my hand and never let go because

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you're going to need me for this life. Say that again. Yeah. Okay. So when I was a little girl,

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I think I was probably four and a half or five years old. I was afraid. My parents were arguing.

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And it was a small house and no real, no real place to go. But I remember hiding behind a piece

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of furniture. And it was the first time I heard Jesus. I know now as an adult, Jesus was talking

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to me. And he said, I want you to hold on to my hand and never let go because you're going to need

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me for this life. And I failed him, hold my hand and something happened in me. And I was, I didn't

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know the term born again. I didn't know you had to ask Jesus to come into your heart. I just know

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Jesus got ahold of me. And that's our relationship. I made mistakes. I feel like I discipled myself

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as I was kind of growing up and figuring it all out and everything. But, but Jesus never let go

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of my hand. So as I started to experience this with my children, this intense fear that took over

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and this intense feeling of responsibility and that I needed to fix it and everything became

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so life controlling. So on one side, I professed Jesus as my Lord and Savior and said, I trusted

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him, but fear was controlling me. And what had happened was by the time this came to my set,

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my older son going through the second experience that was much harder, much more difficult. Yeah,

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like I thought I, I almost thought I'd ace it with my younger son, you know, I almost thought I,

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you help him get okay. Yeah, mom was great. She was right there. We played all of our cards right.

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We did it right and look at it happened, you know, and, and so there was a little bit of that. Well,

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all of that was gone when addiction and mental health issues and all these things just tore

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our family apart. And I would hear playing in my head. Now, I was working full time by all outward

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appearances. I looked like I was handling it okay, going to church and everything and, you know,

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not really talking a ton about it to people or anything. But I got to that place where I was

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worrying so much. I could hear in my head, you have to fix your son, you have to fix your son,

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you have to fix your son playing all the time. I could be having this conversation with you,

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but my poor brain was on such overwhelm that there was this broken part in there that couldn't turn

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it off. And it kind of gave me an appreciation for what people go through who are really,

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really struggling with some mental serious mental health issues. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. But you

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couldn't fix it. I couldn't fix it. And I couldn't do anything about it. But my brain was telling me

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I had to. And my body was stuck in this constant state of high alert, like that flight or fight

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or freeze thing. It was all adrenaline, adrenal overload, cortisol, everything going wacko.

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And so I was kind of stuck there. And one day my husband said to me, Don, you're going to worry

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yourself to death. And I looked at him and I said, you know what, you're absolutely right. You can

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write that on my tombstone. She worried herself to death. And I saw it. I saw the word she worried

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herself to death on this old, looking heart. Dude, stop here. That's my legacy. But again, just like

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when I heard Jesus talk to me when I was four years old, I heard him again tap my shoulder and say,

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no, I wanted to say she trusted God. And that was my, yeah, it was a really a moment for me where I

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knew I was at a fork in the road again, just like I was when I was that little girl and could never

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let go. Jesus had never let go in my hand. But somewhere along the line, I was trying to do

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this without him and kind of relegated him to the passenger's seat and was like, Hey, come along for

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the ride, God, you know, but I had to learn what is that process of letting go and trusting Jesus

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look like? Because I've now made a vow and he's just challenged me to do it. Now, how am I going

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to do it? What's that going to look like? And the first step, so it gave you just an easy solution,

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right? Yeah, okay, just one one and done. That was still close to a good 10 years ago that that

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happened. And so that was like halfway through close to halfway through our journey. So it wasn't

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ever none of us was ever easy. And it was and it's still as putting it into practice, the flesh would

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love to go back to worried and controlling and everything. But I started taking steps to get

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help for myself and to find support and to talk more about it with other people that were going

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through similar situations. Which is always easy to do. It's not. Because I found that a lot of

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environments made me feel less hopeful and more hopeless. And I'm not judging them, I'm just

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saying the effect they had on me. Because I had to reconcile how is Jesus Christ, who has the power

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to raise the dead, could set prisoners free, can heal the sick. How can I reconcile having that

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type that God in my life, but have no hope for my children? Because they have this disease condition

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that they can never be set free from. It's always going to control them. And it came because of

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history of the family. Yes. And so I had to start to ask the Lord and that really dealt. I really

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dove deep into the Bible and trying to understand. Because God has always given me such a deep passion

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and love for his word. And I said, God, I know that if you're talking about everything else in

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this Bible, this stuff we're going through is in here too. And I need to know what you have to say

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about it. I've listened to everybody else and everything else that's out there. And I'm confused

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and overwhelmed. And I'm not saying that's what they were saying to me. I'm just telling the effect

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it had on me because we all are waiting for the Lord to lead us to those right people to help us.

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And I finally just, along with studying the Bible deeply, I found people who said,

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you know, it's okay for you to move forward. God has a plan for your life and he wants to use you

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and you can be there and love your child and be there for them, but you cannot make them ready

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to do this. They have to be ready to do this himself. And you can just pray for them and encourage

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them and give them a lot of grace and move when God says move and sit back and hold on when God

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says don't move. And those are the things I had to learn how to do was just to be very dependent on

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him and hearing his voice. And so it's meant that mom has, I'm very close to both of all my children.

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I'm very close to all of them. So thank God for that. And they have all said that, you know,

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that they are grateful that I've never left them, that I've always been there for them. I've always

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supported them, but they're much happier that I'm not constantly trying to control their every move

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and be their Holy Spirit for them and be their conscience for them and let them kind of figure

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it out. I remember one time telling that to my oldest son, I said, oh, you don't listen to me

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anyway. And he goes, mom, I listened to everything you tell me to do and I do it, but most of the

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time it doesn't work out. Well, he was right. It wasn't that I was giving him bad advice. Maybe

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it wasn't what God wanted him to do at that point. Maybe God wanted him to go or was going to allow

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him to go through some more hard stuff. And as a mom, I wanted to come in and put the band-aid on

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that and hug him and cuddle him. And God was like, no, let it be. It was hard for me sometimes to

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do nothing or say nothing and just be praying quietly and waiting. And so those are some of

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the things that God had to show me how to do because my flesh, my impulse, what I knew was

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getting rescue, fix, enable, whatever I needed to do. So that's how my journey got me here.

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So that was kind of when you were beginning or continuing to learn what it is to live in grace?

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Yes. And how did that play out a little more in your life, not just in your ability to not

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push them or try to control them, but did it change some things internally for you and spiritually

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to recognize grace and the power that it is? It really did. I was looking, I'm just going to

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grab a scripture here real quick if I can find where I put it. Grace for me was something that

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I easily overlooked. You read about it in the Bible, right? And you read about

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the Lord's grace for us and we think about it for salvation and we think about that,

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you know, we don't have to do anything to earn God's favor in our life or His grace in our life.

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And as I would look at that, I would think, well, that's great. You know, I'm saved by grace.

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But I didn't realize that the Lord had every single thing that we need to live this life

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is because of His grace. And so I was looking at Titus 2, 11 through 13 and it says,

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For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people, training us to renounce

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ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled upright and godly lives in this

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present age. And then Romans 6, 14 through 15 says, For sin will have no dominion over you,

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since you are not under law but under grace. What then? Are we to sin because we're not

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under law but under grace by no means? So, and then one more I want to share. Okay. Okay. And

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God is able to make all grace abound to you so that having all sufficiency and all things at all

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times, you may abound in every good work. And that's 2 Corinthians 9, 8, right? All, all, all, all,

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all, all. And then, you know, and just every time you look up a verse on grace and start to kind of

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go down that road, it's every single thing we need. And I realized I hadn't lived myself in a

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grace-filled life. I had lived under a system of rules and do's and don'ts. And here's Paul,

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so often Paul in the Bible, he talks about grace more than any other writer in the New Testament.

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I think in the ESB, it's over a hundred times in his epistles, he mentions and talks about grace.

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This was a man who was under the law, under, you know, just legalism and everything. And the Lord

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just sideswiped him and changed him. And he embraced grace. He embraced it to its fullest.

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And so, as I was looking at his life and thinking, Lord, the way you changed him,

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the way that he thinks, the way that he sees you and understands you through the lens of grace

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is what I want. And so, it started to lift that burden off of me to always perform. And I started

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to realize that we're always looking at the outcome. Like, if we do an action and it has a

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good outcome, we must have done the right thing. But if we do an action and it has a bad outcome,

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we must not have been hearing from God. It must be a bad thing. But the Lord's looking at our heart.

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He's not concerned about that part of it. He's got that part of it under control.

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He wants to know if we're listening to him, trusting him and obeying him. And so, when that

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happened, I realized I couldn't even write a book with a bunch of do's and don'ts that said,

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do A, B, and C, and your kid's going to turn out great. And you're going to be happy whole free

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because it was really about cultivating a relationship with the Lord based on his love,

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his mercy, his grace, and his fullness in our life. And that was something that I never

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embraced up until we went through this because I was too caught up in all the rules and regulations

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like our brother Paul was before he came to that saving grace of Jesus Christ.

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And like so many of us have been, we think we have to live by these rules.

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We do. And yet, if we make mistakes with it, we think that, oh, I'll add our no rules anymore

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then. Right. And then we just give you a license to sin, but it's easy to use it as an excuse to

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go back and sin. Right. So how did this transformation, at least the process, affect your family?

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Well, that's a really good question. I think for my older son, because he was the one that was

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kind of in the heat of things. Okay. And in the middle of all of this, my husband had also developed

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an addiction to the pain meds. And then he went down the rabbit hole of getting into gambling.

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We live in Las Vegas. So now I was dealing with it with the both of them. Now, it seemed like

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when one was doing well, you know, the other was it, but my husband, his really was to deal with

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the chronic and severe pain he was in. So it was kind of a different motivation behind what happened.

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He got a dependency. Then when he couldn't work and everything, idle time makes for idle hands and

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all of that. And that's where it became easy for him to just lose himself in gambling because slot

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machines and things are so available here. But when it happened that he, that I found this out with

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him, I was at that point where it was like, you need to go figure this out, because we were not

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going to let our sons live in this house and be using and doing all of this. And I really saw God

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working him in a miraculous way. The Lord did an actual miracle in my husband's life, unbeknownst

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to me because he would to stay with my other, my son in Arizona. But the Lord said to me,

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tell him to go ask the elders for prayer. And I did. Now, he doesn't remember the story that way.

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He remembers God telling him to go ask the elders for prayer. So I think the Lord was working on

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both of our hearts. But I said to the Lord, because I had to, you know, there's always me meddling.

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I had to say, Lord, well, what church should he go to? I don't know what church to send him to

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in Arizona. I don't live in Arizona. And I remember the Lord saying, just any church will do that

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confesses me as Lord and Savior and believes in the power of prayer. He just needs to go ask for

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prayer. So the Lord shut me down again. So I didn't say anything else, except I feel like the Lord

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saying that you should go ask the elders for prayer. And he did believe that. And he went to my son's

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church, waited around for almost an hour because the elders were busy praying for other people,

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refused to leave, knew that God was going to meet him there. My husband was a Christian. And when

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he asked for prayer, he doesn't remember anything after they put their hands on it. All he asked for

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was, I'm in all this pain. I've had, you know, five fusions. I've had multiple back surgeries.

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It's just getting worse instead of better. And, you know, I need pain. I need help with that.

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And didn't at all, and I've become addicted to their pain. That's all he said to them.

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Well, when they laid hands on him, he felt instantly like lightning went through him.

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Wow. Yes. He felt energizing force of Jesus. And he felt a hand on his shoulder.

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And instantly he heard and he heard it in his ear. I forgive you. And immediately all of his sins

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passed before him. And he was blown away because he didn't come up to confess sins. He came up for

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I'm hurting and please help me. And my wife threw me out for me. And so instantly he realized,

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this is between me and Jesus. I'm making all these other reasons why I'm doing this, but this is

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between me and Jesus. And for the first year or so, he couldn't talk about it without crying.

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I would walk in. We were still apart for about another six weeks. And he was, you know, getting

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some counseling, Christian counseling and stuff. And I was working on everything on my end as well.

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But when he came home, the Lord had done this miraculous thing in him, but I didn't have that

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big, whoa. I just was still trying to reason with, you know, freak figure out my trust issues and

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all of that stuff. And I wanted to make sure I didn't pick all of it up again and just let God

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do what he was doing in my husband's life. And that helped me, that process helped me with my

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kids. Because with moms, it's a lot harder with the kids. You know, we feel so responsible for them.

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And all we have done as children, when they are children is take care of them and fix their boo-boos

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and, you know, take them to the doctors and talk to their teachers. And now all of a sudden,

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they're dealing with heavy stuff as adults. And we don't know how to let go of that.

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So I feel like my husband's situation was in some ways training ground for me, because I

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couldn't even talk to him. That'd be nagging if I did it to my husband, but to my kids, I felt like

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I could get away with it. So, you know, it was one of those things where the Lord had to really

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kind of show me the trust that you're going to learn to have in me concerning your spouse is

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what's going to help you to be better at this as a mom. And so it gave me a broader, because now

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every single man in my life that had was an important figure in my life, struggled with addiction

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in one way or another. My brother, my uncles, my dad, everyone. And my husband, my kids, my boys.

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And so that was one of those things where it was like God was really serious about if I want to use

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you and I want you to have a message of hope, we've got to work on you. And so, you know, I had a kind

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of goal in mind, like Lord, I really do want to, I want you to pat me on the shoulder and say, well,

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done, good and fable, serve it. Like I learned my lesson. And so that was a big help for me in

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working through that process with my husband helped me a lot to learn about God's grace.

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So your daughter made it through all this unscathed?

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Good thing to ask about her. That might be book number two. So my daughter is actually on the

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autism spectrum. She's 32 years of age and still lives with us. Now she's high functioning,

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but there's social things there that would make it a real struggle for her to live

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outside the home. And yes. And, you know, they process differently and they often will internalize

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and they deal with sensory issues and things like that. And so I feel like, you know, she,

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because she was so quiet that we didn't realize how far it was on her. And now as she's getting older

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and able to talk more about it, what I do see is she, she's very guarded and very, you know, doesn't

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want, gets nervous when she's going to be around her brother for too long and, and, you know,

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concerned because seems like her home can be a trigger for him when he comes to visit and

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things like that. And so I've had to really take a look at listening to her and understand that,

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you know, she's working through and processing a lot of the things that I can, maybe I didn't,

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I didn't, I knew they bothered her, but she just didn't talk enough about them. Now she's talking

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more about them. And I realized she has a lot that she also needs to work through. And when

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you're going through this, you have to look at the collateral damage on the rest of the family. And

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that was one of the reasons I was so strict about, no, the boys, when they were going through this,

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they're hanging out with bad kids, they're hanging out with bad, you know, people that aren't good,

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that are selling them drugs and things. And you don't know what they could bring home. And I had

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the dangers that they could put the home, the family into the risks. And I had a daughter here.

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So I had to make tough decisions when I looked at the collateral damage of the,

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on the family and the safety of the family and say, well, you know, there's just too much at risk here.

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If something were to happen to my daughter, because I was feeling sorry for one of my sons,

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this could be a real problem. I can offer them safe environments to live in if they're willing

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to get help, but they cannot live here and conduct themselves that way. And so that was

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something that I was really careful with with her. But there was still a lot that she didn't

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process because, and then she's just processing now. Wow. So coming out of this hard, but beautiful

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story is a ministry that God has given you that you've called faith, the flourish. Can you tell us

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how that evolved? Sure. So I do have the word the in front of faith, the flourish. And the reason

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for that is somebody had the domain faith, the flourish. And so I had to put a done there to

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get that in there. Got it. Yeah. Okay. But what happened was I would say around that point that

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10 years ago, when I was just starting to get to where God was really speaking to me and saying,

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gave me my aha moment and all of that, he gave me a vision for a ministry. And the ministry was

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beautiful, flourishing green pasture, water and little sheep. And they were all happy and

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the shepherds were taking good care of them. And everyone was great. And I said, Lord, I'm

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all in. I'm ready to do this. And I was working full time in a doctor's office. And so I didn't

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have a lot of time available, but I really did believe that you want me to do something online.

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And but when he said this to me, I immediately had the caveat anything but addiction. And I kind

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of he kind of went silent, like instantly, like, Oh, I was like, oops. And the reason I said anything

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but addiction was I was still processing. Like, I couldn't figure out how to live it. And then

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serve in it. And then, you know, this would be like this 24 seventh thing. And I was like, I don't,

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I'm not there yet. Like, I'm not, you know, that was my reason for it was I was like, I still have

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so much to learn. Well, isn't that just like God to take us on a journey. And we think we're supposed

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to have arrived by now. And once I arrive, God, then you can use me. And instead, he's like, Yeah,

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no, we're going to do it different. They're going to you're going to be vulnerable and real and raw

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and everything that you're going through, you're going to you're going to be learning as we do this.

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And so that was the process of me starting to write. Just really, I had I'd put writing away,

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I had a love for writing. And, and I put it away, you know, to be a mother and be responsible in all

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those things. And now God was having me write and blog about what we were going through and talk

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about it and kind of get it out there. And, and then he had me start an online support group on

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Facebook. And that was another argument we had, because I said, Lord, they don't need another

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online support group on Facebook, everybody's doing this. And there's all kinds of good groups

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out there. And I can point the finger that direction and have them go that direction. And

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again, he's like, just do it. So what's it going to be about? What am I supposed to talk about? I

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don't know what you want me to do. And he's like, do it. So the second I just went on and typed in

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and started a group, then he said, okay, here's your mission. Your mission is to encourage the moms,

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pray for the children and glorify me. And I knew it wouldn't be an advocacy group. It wouldn't be

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that type of a group because those are out there. This would be an intercessory group where we could

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encourage each other and point each other to the Lord. And, and so that doesn't mean the moms don't

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come with all their stuff and their fears and talk about what's going on with their kids and

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everything. But someone's real quick now to jump on and say, let me pray for you or to share a testimony

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of something that will give them hope. And so that's where the group came. And as the process of

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going through the group and deciding to take some classes to learn how to talk with moms and

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wives and people who are going through all of this and kind of coach them a little bit, the Lord

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showed me, just taught me a lot through observation, taught me a lot about his love, his mercy for these

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families. And that's where the desire for the book, and it actually didn't start off as a book,

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it started off as a Bible study. I, I, he gave me the desire to write a Bible study on the book of

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Hosea and God's love for wandering hearts. And in the process, he said, okay, you've done all this

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research, you've got all these chapters laid out, now we're going to make it a book. So that kind

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of brought it down to concise and had more of my personal stories in it. The Bible study didn't have

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my personal stories in it. And he just said, we're going to make this really where they see you and

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they see what I've brought you through. So I think the Bible study is something that will still happen,

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but it was a good way for me to really learn and really dig deep into the scriptures and have a

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better understanding of the Lord and his love and how he can help families that are going through this

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to get through this. So how does your book, how do people who get it, are they just going to read

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through it and absorb what you've said? Or is there interaction that they're going to need to have?

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Or how will they really gain the benefit from what you've learned? So the book does have, you know,

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my story and some of my stories in it and then some of the things the Lord has taught me. And then at

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the end of each chapter, there are reflection questions. And then I also have a complimentary

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guide that is a reflection journal and prayer journal. And now my next plan will be to take

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all that stuff that I did for the Bible study and make it into like a compliment, I mean, a

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guide to go with it, a study guide to go with it. I haven't done that, that's phase two. But right now,

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the people who have been going through my book say that those reflection questions are very helpful.

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And I think it's something they could do as a small group of ladies getting together and just

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having a chance to work through, you know, do it as a book club. But then at the end, they have the

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opportunity to work through these questions that are not like questions. And really look at the

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scriptures, the book is packed full of scripture. So if they take their time with it, it could be

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like a mini Bible study for them and then something that they could use to dig deeper.

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That sounds awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing so openly and thoroughly with your own

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hard journey as well as your kids and your husband. And when you put it all together, it's

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a big thing that God has taken you through. And he's not only bringing healing and hope and help

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for the family members, but he's also giving you a chance to take what he's done in your life

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and making that available to other people. Because I've heard a lot of similar stories with the hard

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things with kids and husbands as well. And so for you to be able to put it in writing and put it

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in online so that people can at least have that to work through and let God speak to them. And

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the concept of grace to go from the guilt you were experiencing to where you're living in the

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grace that God gives us is makes anybody should want to read this because we all desire what it

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means to have the grace of God flowing through us, covering us, guiding us, everything that we

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need to live. And yet we're not really very good naturally. We tend to do just what you were doing

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and try and correct things yourself or be the one who make the rules or to go after the solutions.

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And you're telling them, yeah, you could be a part of that, but it's the grace of God that's

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going to enable you for what God's doing in your life as well as the people you love so much.

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You know, one of the things I'd like to add just real quick is I had to get to that place where I

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realized that, and that's very humbling for moms. And I think a lot of moms may identify with this,

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that I didn't have to have all the right words and I didn't have to have the responsibility to be

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the one to deliver hope to them. And so often we struggle with Lord, you know, what's the right

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Bible verse I should send to him? Did I tell him I love him enough times today? And, you know, did I,

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oh, did, you know, I heard this good Christian song on YouTube and I'm going to send it to him.

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And that all sounds really good. But when I started checking my modus, often that was driven by fear.

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I was feeling anxious. I was feeling nervous. I was feeling worried about him. So I would send it

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instead of sensing that the Holy Spirit was saying, do this. And when I learned to live in being

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uncomfortable and knowing that I couldn't be everything to him but Jesus could, that helped me

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a lot. It helped me a lot to erase the text message, to not send a song, knowing my kids know I love

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them. They may say things sometimes when they're hurt, but they know. And it gave me that, that

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that break to say, Jesus, I'm going to, I'm just going to sit back here and trust you with this.

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And often that message of hope came through someone else or the hell came to someone else.

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Absolutely. And it wasn't mom that did it because mom's a little too close to the subject sometimes.

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It doesn't mean God doesn't use us, but he uses us in different ways as our children mature.

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And one more thing was that the Lord really said to me, how would you feel if you're,

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because my dad's 86, you know, I'm 62, how would you feel if he got, he called you every day and

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told you everything you were doing wrong and what you needed to do to fix it? How would you feel?

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Now, listen, my dad has no problem telling me what he thinks about whatever I'm doing.

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But my point is I wouldn't like it if I was, if my parent wasn't showing confidence in me to make

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decisions. And God said, my spirit, I, these, your children were created in my image. I breathe my

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life, my breath into them and I can speak to them no matter how messed up their brains are,

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or whatever, I can speak to them and I can put hope and I can put the people in their life that

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they need. And if there's no one there, I'm there. And I started to really get that. And as I started

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to get that, that's how God's grace flew, flew, floated into my life and then float into their

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life. And that I just wanted to end on that note because I'm trying to talk about Jesus and His

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grace. I'm blessed. So thank you. Well, I'm thrilled that we can tell your listeners, these listeners,

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where they can get your book. It'll be in the show notes. And if you'd like to be in the drawing to

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win the two that we're going to give away, just follow the instructions in the show notes.

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There'll be some links for Dawn's ministry that you can go to as well and engage some more.

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And don't forget, write down one or two things that God spoke to you about that will help you in the

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journey that you're in. Thank you so much, Dawn, and blessings on you. Thank you so much for having me.

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I really enjoyed our conversation.